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doug555
03-15-15, 02:40 AM
The Gift of Eternal Life

Will the Bride Respond Like the Mother?

The Father was very careful about whom He selected to become the Mother of His Son.

Will He not be just as careful in selecting His Bride?

Will those of us chosen respond in humility and faith as Mary did?

Continue... (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-gift/)

You can also listen to the message about "The Gift" at:
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-30428/TS-932543.mp3


One of the called, in accord with Isa 41:27,
Doug

P.S. A personal message to the saints follows:


To the called out ones, the lovely and pure Bride of Christ TODAY,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNWoz_Rg8q8

The above "Celtic Moon Luna" Youtube video displaying our beautiful Moon accompanied with classic harp songs, can truly inspire us as we prepare for the beginning of God's next sacred astronomical calendar year that starts on Saturday, March 21, 2015, beginning at sunset of previous day.

The Full Moon that shines on the night after Passover Night proclaims our deliverance from sin by the fulfillment of Holyday 1 on the 1st Day of Unleavened Bread - Passover - which is fully realized on Holyday 2 as typed by Israel's deliverance at the Red Sea on the 7th Day of Unleavened Bread.

March 21 is Abib 1 - the first day of God's sacred astronomical calendar in the heavens.

See the Annual Holydays for 2015 at:
http://pentecostnation.org/docs/holydays.pdf

Perhaps the theme of our preparation for this next Passover on Abib 14, Friday, April 3, beginning at sunset of previous day, should be our preparation as the Bride of Christ to marry Him on Pentecost in the very near future.

Read Ps 19:1-5 and notice the sun is a type for the Bridegroom.

Read Song of Solomon 6:10 in connection with Rev 12:1; 19:7-9 to see the moon as a type for the Bride.

Holyday 1 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/holyday-1-passover/) was literally fulfilled on Abib 14, 30 A.D. when a carpenter from Nazareth, the Son of God, died as our Passover.

Holyday 2 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/) will just as literally be fulfilled in this generation, on what I believe will be Abib 49, a Sabbath (Saturday), the day before Abib 50, Holyday 3, Pentecost, as typed by the 7th Day of Unleavened Bread Holyday (7x7=49).

Marriage is the theme of Holyday 3 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/holyday-3-the-pentecost-nation/) - Pentecost - dealing not only with the marriage of God to Israel in the OT at Mt Sinai on Pentecost, but also with the marriage of Christ to the Church/Bride in the NT "in Jacob" (Ps 99.4; Isa 55.5; Mic 4:6-10; Rev 19:7), for which Mt Sinai was its TYPE, which will occur in the very near future, on Pentecost.

So, seeing this connection of the Moon to the Woman/Bride/Church, may we learn to shine the light of our Savior and Husband (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/isaiah/passage/?q=isaiah+60:1-3) just as much as this next Full Moon will shine on the night of Abib 15, Saturday April 4, beginning at sunset of previous day.

Now, whenever we look at the Moon, we should see and realize our role as the Bride of Christ - it is indeed a Gift beyond comprehension, and will last FOR AN ETERNITY!

allodial
03-15-15, 06:04 AM
Thanks for sharing. What of the Pentecost mentioned in Acts in the upper room shortly after the kingdom was formally conferred and then the same was conferred upon the saints? That event is encoded at Ephesians 1 and 2 (the word sit is translated from Greek 'kathizo' or the like and means to confer a kingdom upon). Maybe I might be reading it wrong because it seems to not be mentioned. Very interesting stuff though.

doug555
03-15-15, 02:11 PM
Thanks for sharing. What of the Pentecost mentioned in Acts in the upper room shortly after the kingdom was formally conferred and then the same was conferred upon the saints? That event is encoded at Ephesians 1 and 2 (the word sit is translated from Greek 'kathizo' or the like and means to confer a kingdom upon). Maybe I might be reading it wrong because it seems to not be mentioned. Very interesting stuff though.


Good question! I think you are referring to Eph 1:20 and 2:6. The NAS says "seated". This same word is used in Col 3:1. See its Greek meaning at: http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/sugkathizo.html

Now contrast your view with the question raised in Acts 1:6-7. If the kingdom was already "conferred", why did the Apostles ask this question? (BTW: the word "conferred" does not appear in the NT in the context you cite.)

I believe your view may be best explained by Rev 3:5, where our names as converted begotten saints and citizens of the Kingdom are written in the book of life, and they will stay there unless we fail to overcome, upon which such names will be erased from the book of life.

Mt 25:31,34 shows when the saints inherit (http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/kleronomeo.html) the kingdom. It occurs after we are born as literal spirit beings, and are no longer flesh and blood (Jn 3:5; 1 Cor 15:50)

IMO, right now, our status is only son and heir (Gal 4:7) - not inheritor and possessor - of the LITERAL Divine Family Kingdom.

Beware of the "kingdom is within you" doctrine, which may have prompted your view above, which aligns with Gnosticim (http://www.gty.org/resources/bible-introductions/MSB62/first-john?Term=gnosticism).

The word "within" in Lk 17:21 could just as legitimately be translated "in the midst of", which has an entirely different connotation in the context of that Scripture.

Notice that these Pharisees had this very same question that the Apostles had in Acts 1:6, namely, "when the Kingdom of God was coming".

Notice that Christ said it was NOT coming with "signs to be observed". Yet , then in Lk 17:24, just a few verses later, He says the Son on Man will come as lightning in the sky in His day (referring to Holyday #4), and in Mt 24:30, He refers to this same event, saying "then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky".

Is this not an apparent contradiction? Indeed it is!

Unless Lk 17:20 has an entirely different meaning than is commonly assumed.

Let's see if this explanation fits better, and resolves this apparent contradiction...

Christ is saying in Lk 17:20 that to the Pharisees the kingdom will not come into their awareness and belief by signs, or by any miraculous physical event that they could see and observe. It can only come by revelation from the Father. And this principle and truth is clearly illustrated in Mt 16:15-17 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/passage/?q=matthew+16:13-17).

Now, notice that Mt 16:15-17 had to do with recognizing the man named Jesus as The Christ, the very Son of God, in the flesh. They also recognized Him as "the King of Israel" (Jn 1:49).

Then notice that the Pharisees did NOT recognize Jesus as the Christ, the King of the coming Kingdom of God, who was literally standing there "in the midst of" them - "For behold, the Kingdom of God is in your midst (Lk 17:21 NAS). The Kindgom of God, in the literal person of its King, Jesus Christ, was right there standing in front of them, and they could not see it/Him!

Now, does not this translation of the Greek word "entos" (Strong's 1787 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/entos.html)) as "in the midst of" make more sense, in this context, and resolve the apparent contradiction?

And then notice that Christ actually did answer the Pharisses' question about "when" by stating in Lk 17:25, which refers to the Passover, which is Holyday #1. Amazing! If they had eyes to see and ears to hear, the Pharisees, who supposedly were experts in the Scriptures should have seen this connection, and then should have been able to extrapolate that the Kingdom would NOT come until Holyday #4. And, obviously, after the Passover, Holyday #1, there would have to occur in history TWO MORE HOLYDAYS before the kingdom would come on Holyday #4.

This is the same mistake that is blinding almost all people on earth to this very day!

This is the blindness that http://pentcostnation.wordpress.com is dedicated to exposing and expunging from those who are being called to partake in the Spring Harvest Phase (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-plan/) of the literal Kingdom of God on earth (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/revelation/passage/?q=revelation+5:9-10)!

BTW: The Acts 2 Pentecost event is NOT a fulfillment of Holyday #3. It is only a TYPE of what will literally happen at the true literal fulfillent of Holyday #3 that MUST occur AFTER Holyday #2 occurs. Nothing happened in Scripture between Jn 19 (Passover) and Acts 2 that records the fulfillment of Holyday #2. This oversight is also a major cause of the blindness about Holydays #2 and #3!

This Petition (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/worldwide-petition-for-divine-intervention/) will help remove this blindness.

BLBereans
03-15-15, 07:41 PM
Here is a most interesting study and treatise relating specifically to the "Kingdom".

2366

David Merrill
03-15-15, 08:28 PM
I just began an eleven-week course Kingdom Builders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rYue88lVk).

doug555
03-15-15, 09:32 PM
Here is a most interesting study and treatise relating specifically to the "Kingdom".

2366

Thanks for this cite.

Searching for "entos greek meaning" led me to this work at: http://www.biblicaltheology.com/Research/MarcinR01.pdf

It focuses on this exact issue, as stated on page 3:

... the question of whether 'entos' truly is an ambiguous word. The purpose of this article is to explore the meaning of the Greek preposition 'entos' primarily from a semantic vantage point. The exploration will necessarily involve some theological inference, but it is hoped that theological preference is avoided.



Notice on page 2, footnote 3 (bold added):


The “in the midst of you” translation has a connotation that may appeal to many Christians. The thought is that Jesus is identifying the Kingdom of God with Himself; He (Jesus) is in their midst.This connotation is somewhat problematic, however, in that Jesus has just told His audience that the Kingdom of God does not come with observation, and He (Jesus) was certainly observable to His listeners.

Then on page 6 (bold added):

At this point, it does seem at this point in our analysis that the Kingdom of God is more within us than among us. Butto give a semantic answer – even a tentative one – is not necessarily to capture the full meaning of a word, especially its meaning in the context of so important a scriptural passage. Our trek continues.


The question, of course,remains whether there are nuances that we haven’t yet taken into account.


The Revised Standard Version actually uses “in the midst of” in its translation of the Luke 17:21 passage. Only slightly different – but perhaps enough so to add a nuance – is the New American Standard Version’s “in your midst”. Do the “in your midst” connotations inform the meaning of 'entos' One somewhat tenuous argument for the translation of 'entos' as “in the midst of” is the fact that as a preposition 'entos' takes the genitive case (the word most frequently translated as “among”, i.e. “ev”, takes the dative case).


Thus, even if we were to allow the fact that takes the genitive case to inform its meaning,we are not necessarily budged from our tentative conclusion that 'entos' means “within” or 7 “inside”. And yet “in the midst of” is also a plausible genitive form. It is yet possible that “in the midst of” might somehow express the meaning of 'entos', perhaps more clearly or more fully. Again, our trek continues.


Counterarguments, of course, have been made for the connotation of “among” or “in the midst of”, but they tend, to some extent at least, to be based more on theological preference than on semantic analysis. 5 Theological preference aside, analyses of the simple meanings of the preposition 'entos', its adverbial counterparts, its antonym, and its Septuagint usages in the Old Testament leave little doubt but that the Kingdom of God is “within” us, and provide scant support for the notion that the Kingdom is to be understood as being “among” us.

Notice especially the phrase "Theological preference aside" in the above cite. Can this exclusion be justified, especially in light of what the Scriptures say about how we are to arrive at the truth in Isa 28:10, 13 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/passage/?q=isaiah+28:10;+isaiah+28:13) which shows that the context from the entire Bible is very important in order to understand any particular verse?

Now notice the footnote #5 referenced in this cite. It states this (bold added):


"Jesus was telling the Pharisees where, i.e., in what locale, the Kingdom can be found."

Please notice that this statement in footnote #5 ignores an important aspect about what is actually stated in the Lk 17:20, which is:


"20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;".



Notice that the Pharisees' question was about when - not where!

Now the heart of this issue becomes this:

Is this when aspect in this exchange a significant enough of a "connotation" that it can justifiably invoke a "theological preference" that overrides the "simple semantic analysis" to support the "in the midst of" translation over the "within" translation" in Lk 17:21?

I believe my previous post sufficiently answers that question, especially in view of the apparent contradiction regarding the "signs" issue, which both of these studies completely ignore, but which, however, is very relevant to this exchange and to the truth about the intended meaning of this Greek preposition "entos" in Lk 17:21.



BTW, this "kingdom is within you" issue stems from the Gnosticism that both John and Paul had to deal with in their days.

Let me be clear.

The position that the real truth is only allegorical is the "spirit of the antichrist" and the "spirit of error".

How can I say that?

Because the Apostle John clearly states that in 2 Jn 7 and 1 Jn 4:2-3,6!




7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.


2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.


6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.



Be advised, this spirit is an even greater threat today (1 Tim 4:1).

Lk 17:21 is a perfect illustration of how diabolical and insidious this doctrine is.

Both 1 Jn and 2 Jn have the theme and focus of knowing the truth.

The real and whole truth is both allegorical and literal. The Christ literally came in the flesh! Likewise will the kingdom literally be established on this earth - on Holydays 3 and 6!

One must wonder what is so wrong about having a literal kingdom of God governing this earth?

Nothing that I can see... unless one wants to remain as god in his own imagination.

But that is the very mistake Adam made in the Garden of Eden, and which we are living under to this very day... justified under the doctrine of Pantheism... another great lie.

The Apostle John ends with this warning to us, which we would do well to take very seriously:

"Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (1 Jn 5.21)

The most subtle idol is ourselves - becoming god in our own allegorical reality, and denying the real literal world of the Eternal God's creation!

Now can you see why the "kingdom is within YOU" doctrine is so dangerous?

allodial
03-16-15, 12:55 AM
Good question! I think you are referring to Eph 1:20 and 2:6. The NAS says "seated".... Now contrast your view with the question raised in Acts 1:6-7. If the kingdom was already "conferred", why did the Apostles ask this question? (BTW: the word "conferred" does not appear in the NT in the context you cite.)

Good question but Acts 1 might be a bit too early (Luke 24:49 probably relates to your question). Instead of Acts 1, look at the events of Acts 2 (i.e. post ascension 'kathizo' event). As for the significance of Pentecost, I have found that: helpful is comprehending the mystery of the shofar.

doug555
03-16-15, 01:08 AM
Acts 2 is the written record of the conferring (i.e. the 'kathizo' event). Acts 1 is too early. As for the original significance of Petencost, comprehension of the usefuless and mystery of the shofar might be greatly helpful.

The only thing conferred by that event was the gift of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is what the Father had promised to give them (Acts 1:4; 2:4, 33, 38 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/passage/?q=acts+1:4;+acts+2:4;+acts+2:33;+acts+2:38)).

May I ask where are you getting this idea of "conferring the kingdom"?

allodial
03-16-15, 01:51 AM
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Ephesians 1 and 2 + Luke 24:49. What had to happen before they would be endue them with power from on high? Ephesians 1 & 2 seem to clearly lucidate what happened post ascension and why they said to tarry.


Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places...

2367

Seat as in like "seat of government" or "county seat" rather than as in "comfy chair". This significance is profoundly lucidated:


Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come (Ephesians 1:21)


And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus... (Ephesians 2:26)


My kingdom is not of this world John 18:36


But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. (1 Peter 2:9)

David Merrill
03-16-15, 08:36 AM
I just began an eleven-week course Kingdom Builders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rYue88lVk).



The Father was very careful about whom He selected to become the Mother of His Son.

Auspicious.

Pragmatist revelation leads me to believe that Archelaus HEROD was likely bedding Levite maidens when afforded the opportunity, as a mentally ill King of Israel. (I remind the reader that Herod THE GREAT's three sons were Archelaus (KING), Antipas (TETRARCH) and Philip (TETRARCH). Somebody blurted out in a Bible Study that Christmas (December 25) was Jesus' "conception birthday". I did not inquire how but being born September 11, 3 BC, December 25, 4 BC would put Mary about two weeks overdue - which is entirely possible.

This indicates the timeline to be that pregnant Mary was dumped on Joseph ARIMATHEA*, a wealthy and politically active silver miner to raise the unwanted bastard. During Jesus' birth Jupiter went into retrograde motion and in conjunction with Regulus not only caused the brightest star the people had ever seen in their lifetimes, caused it to linger for several nights that way. Then fifteen months later a delegation of three dignitaries traveled to Jerusalem from Babylon during the retrograde motion of Venus moving backward in the sky and alerted Archelaus that the next King of Israel would be that toddler he had sired from the virgin priest-maiden from a few years earlier.

In a rage Archelaus began a campaign of infanticide that got him exiled by 6 AD and so we find him thirty years later still King of Israel but living in the wilderness with John BAPTIST as his Prophet (channeling the Spirit of Elijah) and finally accepting Jesus' coronation as King of Israel.


Regards,

David Merrill.


* Albeit there are degrees of freedom unmentioned, the strict reading indicates that Joseph, Jesus' adopted father was Joseph of Arimathea on the premise that parents would not name two of their sons by the same name Joseph.

doug555
03-16-15, 10:42 PM
Rev 5:9-10 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/revelation/passage/?q=revelation+5:9-10)

9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Zech 14:4, 9, 16 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/passage/?q=zechariah+14:4;+zechariah+14:9;+zechariah+14:16 )

4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.


9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.


16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

Rev 20:6 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/revelation/20-6.html)

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Rev 3:21 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/revelation/3-21.html)

21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.


These Scriptures indicate to me that the "overcomers", the "Firstfruits", the "Bride", will sit on Christ's throne on the earth, and reign with Him on the earth for 1000 years, the Millenium, on the earth, and all nations on earth will keep the Feast of Booths, Holyday #6, at Jerusalem on the earth, so that all people on the earth will understand that they comprise the generations that are literally fulfilling that Holyday #6 event in the Creator's 2-Phase Harvest Plan (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-plan/) to transform man-kind into the God-kind through 7 BIG EVENTS (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/worldwide-petition-for-divine-intervention/) - the 7 ANNUAL HOLYDAYS of Lev 23.


So again, I ask...

What is so wrong about having a literal kingdom of God governing this earth for 1000 years?

And what greater Gift (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-gift/) could be granted than to be part of The Bride that is literally sitting with Christ on His Throne on the earth!?

This is incomprehensibly AWESOME!!!

Why are we not rejoicing as Mary did in her "Magnificat (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/passage/?q=luke+1:46-55)"?

And humbly, in faith accepting this Gift (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-gift/), and responding with "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; be it done to me according to your word. (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/1-38.html)"?

doug555
03-18-15, 01:54 AM
I just began an eleven-week course Kingdom Builders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rYue88lVk).

Auspicious.

Pragmatist revelation leads me to believe that Archelaus HEROD was likely bedding Levite maidens when afforded the opportunity, as a mentally ill King of Israel. (I remind the reader that Herod THE GREAT's three sons were Archelaus (KING), Antipas (TETRARCH) and Philip (TETRARCH). Somebody blurted out in a Bible Study that Christmas (December 25) was Jesus' "conception birthday". I did not inquire how but being born September 11, 3 BC, December 25, 4 BC would put Mary about two weeks overdue - which is entirely possible.

This indicates the timeline to be that pregnant Mary was dumped on Joseph ARIMATHEA*, a wealthy and politically active silver miner to raise the unwanted bastard. During Jesus' birth Jupiter went into retrograde motion and in conjunction with Regulus not only caused the brightest star the people had ever seen in their lifetimes, caused it to linger for several nights that way. Then fifteen months later a delegation of three dignitaries traveled to Jerusalem from Babylon during the retrograde motion of Venus moving backward in the sky and alerted Archelaus that the next King of Israel would be that toddler he had sired from the virgin priest-maiden from a few years earlier.

In a rage Archelaus began a campaign of infanticide that got him exiled by 6 AD and so we find him thirty years later still King of Israel but living in the wilderness with John BAPTIST as his Prophet (channeling the Spirit of Elijah) and finally accepting Jesus' coronation as King of Israel.

Regards,
David Merrill.


* Albeit there are degrees of freedom unmentioned, the strict reading indicates that Joseph, Jesus' adopted father was Joseph of Arimathea on the premise that parents would not name two of their sons by the same name Joseph.


Hi David,

First, some GOOD NEWS about lawful money refunds working for me for now the past 4 years, both State and Federal! How's that for LITERAL PROOF about the Federal Reserve Act Remedy! At least the way that I am doing it (http://1040relief.blogspot.com/)! (P.S. For you skeptics out there, David has proof of my past refunds in hand... so you are going to have to just take our "Word" for it that this is true. The only way YOU skeptics will have proof is to DO IT YOURSELVES! Hmmm... that sounds familiar doesn't it... see Jn 7:17 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/john/7-17.html))

Now, about your secular historical commentary above...

The December 25 date for Jesus Christ's birthday is a MYTH. Just Google "december 25 birthday" to see where that date originally came from... it goes way back to sun worship. The RCC merged that paganism with "Christianity" for political purposes.

But I am glad you posted the above commentary. It will help expose the real issue at work here.

Let me explain...

The "story" above sure makes true Christians look foolish and gullible for believing the literal Biblical account of these events.

And the Apostle Paul even agrees that Christians certainly are "...of most men most to be pitied" if theses events aren't really true, especially if the BIGGEST EVENT, Christ's resurrection, was a mere fabrication (1 Cor 15:1-19 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/passage/?q=1+corinthians+15:1-19)).

But isn't it interesting that this exact same charge about us being gullible to believe "God's" Word goes way back to the story about the Garden of Eden in Genesis 1.

"Adam" certainly was made to feel gullible, ashamed and naked, both physically and existentially, for taking "God" at His Word... literally.

But then how can any of us, even now, prove "God" is telling us the truth?

Doesn't our very attempt at "proving" presuppose that we must occupy the position of a "God", having an absolute frame of reference and all knowledge of eternity and infinity from which to determine and declare absolute truth?

NOW who is the one that is more foolish and gullible - the one believing, or the one proving?

Quite a dilemma, isn't it?

For us, both positions require trust, don't they?

Either we trust "God's" Word or we trust we can be "God" and determine absolute truth, "reality", by ourselves.

I choose to believe "God's" Word, because:

1. It is NOT reasonable to believe in evolution without the fossil record being completely reversed, with imperfect creatures in abundance everywhere, and very few perfect interdependent creatures, that is, IF everything is solely a matter of time, chance, and probability without any outside intelligent intervention. (BTW: Evolution is about God - NOT nature (http://pentecostnation.org/evolution.html))

2. It is reasonable to believe that intelligent life could exist in outer space.

3. There is no reason to dismiss the possibility that such an intelligence could be of a nature and magnitude that it far surpasses our wildest imagination.

4. There is no reason to dismiss the possibility that such an intelligence could not have created the earth, the galaxies, even the entire universe.

5. It is reasonable to believe that the witnesses of Christ's resurrection were so certain that it was a fact that they were willing to die for it.

6. It is reasonable to believe that Christ in fact did rise from the dead because it fits with the Holyday Plan declared in Lev 23 dealing with the Passover as Holyday 1.

7. Given #6, it is then just as reasonable to expect that Holyday 2 will be just as literal and dramatic.

8. Given #7, it then becomes reasonable to believe that a pattern is emerging that indicates that this 7-Step Holyday Plan (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-plan/) is indeed being implemented by a supernatural intelligence who can declare and then perform events over thousands of years in time.

9. Given #8, then it becomes reasonable and imperative that we respond as Mary did to "The Gift (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-gift/)" - this "once-in-an-Eternity" of becoming "The Bride" that marries Christ on Holyday 3, Pentecost, and then sit with Christ on His Throne as "His Wife" - FOREVER! (Notice that those who live during the Millenium and Last Great Day periods do not have this special position offered to them.)

10. Given #9, then it is more reasonable to believe than to prove. If one reads between the lines in the account in Mt 4:1-11 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/passage/?q=matthew+4:1-11) about Christ's temptation, one can see that this was the real issue - believing vs proving. Christ reversed the mistake Adam made in the Garden of Eden. Let us do the same today. The time is short and the reward is incomprehensibly AWESOME.

Michael Joseph
03-18-15, 04:49 AM
Awesome regarding your returns.


Regarding the latter: We know that Wisdom is known of her children. Now once one comes to a face to face relationship with Christ is there any need for faith? No. So then, we now understand that St. Paul writes LEAVING the principle doctrines let us push on now towards perfection. Hebrews 6:1-3.

Now if you believe the literal word, then you cannot deny that Jacob had a face to face relationship as did Moses. And since God is not a respecter of persons, what is given to one man is available to any other! Therefore I too can have a face to face relationship. Can't have that one both ways!

Therefore there is no need to prove God - there is however a response in Trust to follow The Way that Jesus made so plain. For instance, my friend told me the other day that Jesus came to show the Kingdom was one of consciousness and that the blood sacrifices were no longer required. I rebutted with I don't agree. I believe that the blood sacrifices were NEVER required. But that the Church in its vain religion got it wrong. Along comes Jesus to set it right. Is it no wonder those holy rollers killed him? Is it? These are the first to hurl accusation of antichrist upon anyone or anything they don't understand within the scope and concepts of their own reasonings [religion].

Once hope is realized, there is no need for faith. Therefore once one has been baptized with fire and tasted of the power of the Holy Spirit as all of his five senses come alive to the realms of the Spirit - yes in this life - then if that one chooses another direction - then Hebrews 6:4-6 kicks in.

Most in modern religion can't even vaguely grasp what it means to be baptized by fire in the higher realms of consciousness so it is impossible for them to quench the Holy Spirit for they were baptized with H20 and lucky they did not catch a cold - but they lack the baptism by Fire. For the Shulamite woman said "our bed is green" - and this is totally unknown to religion.

Therefore if you are bent to a literal understanding then you cannot deny that we all have the same opportunity Jacob or Moses had. The Scriptures I read tell me that Christ is in EVERYONE. Immanuel - God with us. Interesting. Interesting indeed. How most are looking for an abomination that causes desolation to stand in some physical temple. Absurd.

The abomination is the horror that my carnal mind has been ruling in the temple of my conscious mind and that me, my self, has stood in the way of the Higher Mind. I have showed myself to be God by undertaking my entire life under the will of my carnal mind. It must be put to death! That is the sacrifice acceptable to God. It takes discipline.

Daniel prayed three times a day - Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles. All three can be celebrated within my consciousness. And yet men are content to never look to the how - they await a "some day" this will happen. Armageddon is the war fought between my Carnal Mind and my Higher Mind. The blood is the death to my Carnal Mind. Nevertheless religion has their bloodthirsty God seeking revenge on the ignorant. Kill em all I say - those ignorant fools should have known better.

Of course, I write in jest. Where is Love, Mercy, Charity? Since Jesus showed us God - I never saw Jesus kill anyone. I never saw Jesus putting down the ignorant. I never saw Jesus angry - save once the driving out of the money changers - which ALLEGORICALLY stand for the Carnal Thoughts of the Lower Mind. Nevertheless, let religion have their angry Jesus. So be it.

I can tell you for a fact that I did not write the Bible so it is an impossibility for me to understand any of it. And it is even a greater foolishness to sit at the feet of other men to hear/read what they think - even this man [me - Michael Joseph]. I trust only what is granted to me by the Holy Spirit to know. This is The Way of God - Wisdom She has built herself a House. Therefore, why does religion seek its own? Same reason the State seeks it own? SELF PRESERVATION and CONTROL.

This is against the Way of God - we are to be a kingdom of Priests. Why wait? Christ told Martha we have no need to wait!

The Gate Keepers bar the way. They do not enter in - if they would they would not be talking about some future event! Attached find a bit of a study I did a few weeks back. Enjoy.

2370

Shalom,
MJ

David Merrill
03-18-15, 02:45 PM
I believe it is obvious by rules of evidence that I am not asserting Jesus' conception date was December 25. I did not even ask the woman her source for believing so. My studied belief is that Archelaus laid with Mary, Jesus' mother but I was thinking it more likely on a cold January night, 3 BC.

doug555
03-18-15, 09:16 PM
I believe it is obvious by rules of evidence that I am not asserting Jesus' conception date was December 25. I did not even ask the woman her source for believing so. My studied belief is that Archelaus laid with Mary, Jesus' mother but I was thinking it more likely on a cold January night, 3 BC.

Yep, my mistake, I did not read that closely enough. I should have known that you do know about the Dec 25 error. Forgive me. I am glad you think Christ's birth was sometime in September. That agrees with the time that shepherds could still be in the fields with their sheep - December would be too cold.

Of course, if Jesus was the son of Archelaus, then the whole Bible is a fraud isn't it, since its foundation is that there is a God who claims to be the literal Father of the man Jesus, who was the Christ. But it is hard to believe that this scandal was not known by the people in that area who later became martyrs for a "fraud".

I can respect your choice to believe secular sources over the Bible, but I hope the literal fulfillment of Holyday #2 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/) in the near future will lead you to reconsider that choice.

Michael Joseph
03-20-15, 04:17 AM
Awesome regarding your returns.


Regarding the latter: We know that Wisdom is known of her children. Now once one comes to a face to face relationship with Christ is there any need for faith? No. So then, we now understand that St. Paul writes LEAVING the principle doctrines let us push on now towards perfection. Hebrews 6:1-3.

Now if you believe the literal word, then you cannot deny that Jacob had a face to face relationship as did Moses. And since God is not a respecter of persons, what is given to one man is available to any other! Therefore I too can have a face to face relationship. Can't have that one both ways!

Therefore there is no need to prove God - there is however a response in Trust to follow The Way that Jesus made so plain. For instance, my friend told me the other day that Jesus came to show the Kingdom was one of consciousness and that the blood sacrifices were no longer required. I rebutted with I don't agree. I believe that the blood sacrifices were NEVER required. But that the Church in its vain religion got it wrong. Along comes Jesus to set it right. Is it no wonder those holy rollers killed him? Is it? These are the first to hurl accusation of antichrist upon anyone or anything they don't understand within the scope and concepts of their own reasonings [religion].

Once hope is realized, there is no need for faith. Therefore once one has been baptized with fire and tasted of the power of the Holy Spirit as all of his five senses come alive to the realms of the Spirit - yes in this life - then if that one chooses another direction - then Hebrews 6:4-6 kicks in.

Most in modern religion can't even vaguely grasp what it means to be baptized by fire in the higher realms of consciousness so it is impossible for them to quench the Holy Spirit for they were baptized with H20 and lucky they did not catch a cold - but they lack the baptism by Fire. For the Shulamite woman said "our bed is green" - and this is totally unknown to religion.

Therefore if you are bent to a literal understanding then you cannot deny that we all have the same opportunity Jacob or Moses had. The Scriptures I read tell me that Christ is in EVERYONE. Immanuel - God with us. Interesting. Interesting indeed. How most are looking for an abomination that causes desolation to stand in some physical temple. Absurd.

The abomination is the horror that my carnal mind has been ruling in the temple of my conscious mind and that me, my self, has stood in the way of the Higher Mind. I have showed myself to be God by undertaking my entire life under the will of my carnal mind. It must be put to death! That is the sacrifice acceptable to God. It takes discipline.

Daniel prayed three times a day - Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles. All three can be celebrated within my consciousness. And yet men are content to never look to the how - they await a "some day" this will happen. Armageddon is the war fought between my Carnal Mind and my Higher Mind. The blood is the death to my Carnal Mind. Nevertheless religion has their bloodthirsty God seeking revenge on the ignorant. Kill em all I say - those ignorant fools should have known better.

Of course, I write in jest. Where is Love, Mercy, Charity? Since Jesus showed us God - I never saw Jesus kill anyone. I never saw Jesus putting down the ignorant. I never saw Jesus angry - save once the driving out of the money changers - which ALLEGORICALLY stand for the Carnal Thoughts of the Lower Mind. Nevertheless, let religion have their angry Jesus. So be it.

I can tell you for a fact that I did not write the Bible so it is an impossibility for me to understand any of it. And it is even a greater foolishness to sit at the feet of other men to hear/read what they think - even this man [me - Michael Joseph]. I trust only what is granted to me by the Holy Spirit to know. This is The Way of God - Wisdom She has built herself a House. Therefore, why does religion seek its own? Same reason the State seeks it own? SELF PRESERVATION and CONTROL.

This is against the Way of God - we are to be a kingdom of Priests. Why wait? Christ told Martha we have no need to wait!

The Gate Keepers bar the way. They do not enter in - if they would they would not be talking about some future event! Attached find a bit of a study I did a few weeks back. Enjoy.

2370

Shalom,
MJ

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.


G4717
stauroo

From G4716; to impale on the cross; figuratively to extinguish (subdue) passion or selfishness: - crucify.

allodial
03-20-15, 05:22 AM
Carnal passions, carnal desires and carnal lusts would be crucified ("mortify" is a term also used similarly --as in "mortifying the deeds of the flesh"). To knowledge, the primary if not only means of dealing with carnal lusts or carnal desires is through scriptural spiritual means rather than mere will power. It does not appear that carnal man was called to change himself through carnal means but with God's help (spiritually).

However, it is important to note that not all all lusts or desires would rightly be classified as carnal. I would not, for example, view a man's desire to bed his wife to be a carnal desire. On the other hand, if the same man were to desire to kill his boss in secret knowing he would get away with it and reap wealth, promotions and notoriety for it, I would likely view such as a carnal desire or carnal lust because it pertains to putting worldly and carnal objectives over and above higher spiritual objectives.


For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh... (Galatians 5:17 KJV)

As many know, the word 'lust' is not particularly sexual. Its refers to most any kind of strong desire. While, various Gnostics philosophers and those with non-scriptural ideas of piety have promoted the notion of it being scriptural or "Christian" to suggesting every good or pleasant desire or lust to be 'sinful'--such notions don't necessarily have basis in scripture. Perhaps someone that might wish to mix original and organic doctrine with Buddhism's concepts about desire might do such a thing? Having passion, desire or lust for right kinds of things--per scripture--is clearly scripturally sound. (Hint: even the desire to be free of desire..is a desire.)


Yep, my mistake, I did not read that closely enough. I should have known that you do know about the Dec 25 error. Forgive me. I am glad you think Christ's birth was sometime in September. That agrees with the time that shepherds could still be in the fields with their sheep - December would be too cold.

Of course, if Jesus was the son of Archelaus, then the whole Bible is a fraud isn't it, since its foundation is that there is a God who claims to be the literal Father of the man Jesus, who was the Christ. But it is hard to believe that this scandal was not known by the people in that area who later became martyrs for a "fraud".

I can respect your choice to believe secular sources over the Bible, but I hope the literal fulfillment of Holyday #2 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/) in the near future will lead you to reconsider that choice.

Re: December 25th
As for a December 25th birthday, its interesting how those who aimed to introduce the likes of Mithraism for the purpose of destroying (through syncretism or 'subjugation through incorporation') the organic and original teachings of Christ Jesus could have the audacity to hold out the fallacy of things introduced being rooted in original doctrines. There are many believers who do not celebrate Christmas and who do not hold December 25th to be Jesus' birthday and only view the period of the year as a time for thanksgiving fellowship, family and continued charity.

Note: There are those who suggest 15 Tishri (September - October) to have been the appropriate day if birth.

On the same note, Christmas was banned in the states of America! The Puritans were against celebrating Christmas (even in England). Also, Christmas wasn't even recognized as a holiday Federally until....(you might not be surprised)...

... after the Civil War in 1870.

To knowledge it was Coca-Cola's 1930s advertising that brought the pop culture notion of Santa Claus decked in red and white to be so widespread. But yet many Muslims and others have blame "Christians" for this or that or have insisted that "all Christians" celebrate Christmas. Question is: what do they mean by "Christians"?


Prior to the Victorian era, Christmas in the United States was primarily a religious holiday observed by Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, and Lutherans. Its importance was often considered secondary to that of Epiphany and Easter. (Wikipedia-Christmas Controversy)

Re: Immaculate Conception / Virgin Birth
Also, it seems puzzling that while even atheists and others might believe in the idea that men came "from the dust" and "return to the dust" by some means (mind, will, biological (will) evolutionary drive, etc.) and while the same might believe men to have been created from the dust, clay or soil by supernatural means that the same could possibly deny that a babe could be formed in the womb (part of a 'jar of clay', that same 'clay') by supernatural means. Likewise that same could believe the Genesis concept of man being created/formed from dust/clay could deny that a babe could be formed in the womb through supernatural means. Wouldn't it be easier to formulate a babe in the womb (of a "jar of clay") than in clay/soil?

Re: sorta related "Jesus as the only Son"
Similarly, the "Jesus Christ is the only Son" concept is held in a accusatory and weaponized sense against believers as if it were based on scriptures when it is clearly not. Many books have been written on that concept and cast a negative light on original and organic doctrine to the extent that its challenging to believe such books aren't written outright with deceptive intent. There are even songs about how God gave his only son...but the scriptures suggest "only begotten Son".


But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name... John 1:12

Keith Alan
03-20-15, 09:26 PM
About Luke 17.21, I thought some of you might find the Halleluyah Scriptures translation interesting.

20 And having been asked by the Pharisees when the reign of Elohim would come, He answered them and said, "The reign of Elohim does not come with intent watching, 21 nor shall they say, 'Look here!' or 'Look there!' For look, the reign of Elohim is in your midst!"

doug555
03-21-15, 03:05 AM
About Luke 17.21, I thought some of you might find the Halleluyah Scriptures translation interesting.

20 And having been asked by the Pharisees when the reign of Elohim would come, He answered them and said, "The reign of Elohim does not come with intent watching, 21 nor shall they say, 'Look here!' or 'Look there!' For look, the reign of Elohim is in your midst!"

Now notice the key words I highlighted. THEM refers to THESE PHARISEES. Christ's answer was for them. The Mt 24 "signs" are meant for the End Time generation.

Thanks for your post Keith.

allodial
03-21-15, 06:39 AM
Now notice the key words I highlighted. THEM refers to THESE PHARISEES. Christ's answer was for them. The Mt 24 "signs" are meant for the End Time generation.

Thanks for your post Keith.

I suppose there can be much significance in paying attention to who is being spoken too. Consider the Samaritan woman and her "five husbands"-- the Samaritan's AFAIK had five gods. Some people try to universalize thing that are specific to the audience being addressed.

Michael Joseph
03-21-15, 09:06 PM
Now notice the key words I highlighted. THEM refers to THESE PHARISEES. Christ's answer was for them. The Mt 24 "signs" are meant for the End Time generation.

Thanks for your post Keith.

I am just wondering why do I care about why Jesus would have a conversation with some so called Religious folks. And clearly he is telling them, by your reasonings, that the Kingdom is within them? When clearly even my nine year old can point out that those Pharisees are total hypocrites.

Why it will not be too much longer that those same pharisees will be plotting to kill Jesus, the man. But when I realized one day that I am a total hypocrite, then I realized he, Jesus, is telling me about me. And the Armageddon that is being fought within me.

Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles are all observed within me - but EVENTUALLY they will all be observed outside of me as we are all transformed from "glory into glory". For when has church ever converted its members without the end of a gun?

Shalom,
MJ

Michael Joseph
03-21-15, 09:23 PM
I suppose there can be much significance in paying attention to who is being spoken too. Consider the Samaritan woman and her "five husbands"-- the Samaritan's AFAIK had five gods. Some people try to universalize thing that are specific to the audience being addressed.

She was thirsty for water [truth]. Her five husbands were known to St. Paul too.

Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

And there she was looking for more water [truth]. Jesus is trying to tell her how to find truth from WITHIN herself. The Way to the Dayspring from on High.

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Apparently those other five CAN'T give those living waters! Imagine that... And we have 2000 years of proof!

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.


RELIGION is nothing but a Cistern and is no well.

Pro 5:15 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.

Pro 5:17 Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee.

======

Otherwise, why do I care one bit about some conversation that happened at some dry well. Plainly put, I don't. But if it makes another "feel better" to think some conversation happened thousands of years ago at some well - then so be it.

I seek that Dayspring - WITHIN ME. Otherwise it appears from my meager experience that the "bitter waters" served up by religion have not healed anyone - I see war, famine, hatred, racism, bigotry, sexual gender bias, and on and on....

And there the woman is coming yet again - each Sunday/Saturday to the well - seeking water. Now, THAT I understand, why? Because I used to be her!

It is not to say that Religionists are my enemy, that is not so. I just see things from a different perspective now.

Shalom,
MJ

Michael Joseph
03-21-15, 10:44 PM
Of course those five teachers that are without as St. Paul recorded are just that Without my Temple.

Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

But their are five other husbands that seek to lead - those are called: Sight, Taste, Hearing, Smell and Touch. And it is thru these that I experience the world and form my intellectual understandings rooted in my sensual experience.

But these are blind guides. And therefore the understanding gained thru these five husbandmen are equally as blind as the understanding gained thru the ones in Eph 4:11 IF and ONLY IF, those in Eph 4:11 are undertaking without the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

Thus in most cases there is no difference.


Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Joh 4:8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

Comment: His disciples should know better but religion only seeks its own. They look everywhere under the sun for meats for the belly and meats for the mind - but they don't do it the way Jesus told them to do it! And Jesus asks "why do you call me Lord and do not obey me?" Valid question! Here the literalists would most likely agree verse 53 is an allegory! I don't know but I'm just saying - most likely.


Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water



Shalom,
MJ

doug555
03-21-15, 11:13 PM
I am just wondering why do I care about why Jesus would have a conversation with some so called Religious folks. And clearly he is telling them, by your reasonings, that the Kingdom is within them? When clearly even my nine year old can point out that those Pharisees are total hypocrites.

Why it will not be too much longer that those same pharisees will be plotting to kill Jesus, the man. But when I realized one day that I am a total hypocrite, then I realized he, Jesus, is telling me about me. And the Armageddon that is being fought within me.

Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles are all observed within me - but EVENTUALLY they will all be observed outside of me as we are all transformed from "glory into glory". For when has church ever converted its members without the end of a gun?

Shalom,
MJ

Notice this excerpt from your reply above:

And clearly he is telling them, by your reasonings, that the Kingdom is within them?

No, using the "within you" translation is YOUR position MJ. My position is that the kingdom is NOT "within them", as I have made abundantly clear in previous posts. The kingdom, in the person of Jesus, its King, was "in their midst", but they could not see that, because that truth can only come by revelation from the Father (Mt 16:16-18 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/passage/?q=matthew+16:16-18)).

See post17071 (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1489-The-Gift&p=17071&viewfull=1#post17071)

For look, the reign of Elohim is in your midst!"

Then re-read post17006 (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1489-The-Gift&p=17006&viewfull=1#post17006)

The only sign given to them was Christ being dead and literally rising again in 3 days, just as the literal experience of Jonah being in a big fish for 3 days. (Lk 11:29 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/11-29.html))

Hmmm... isn't this "sign" talking about the fulfillment of the "allegory" (TYPE) called "The Passover" the 1st of the 7 Annual Holyday TYPES?

Didn't Christ make that perfectly clear to these Pharisees when He was standing there "in their midst"?

Lk 17:25 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/17-25.html):


25 "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

Holyday 1 was being fulfilled right before their eyes, and they could not see it.. They were focused on Holyday 4, when Christ comes as a literal King on earth. Because of this "blindness", they killed the Messiah. Likewise, many will kill the Firstfruits who are fulfilling Holyday 3 (Rev 6:9-11 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/revelation/passage/?q=revelation+6:9-11)).

It should be clear, if one is being honest in the search for truth, that anything should not be taken out of context.

To ignore the context of Lk 17:21, IMO, is not being honest.

Michael Joseph
03-21-15, 11:44 PM
Notice this excerpt from your reply above:


No, that is YOUR position MJ. My position is that the kingdom is NOT "within them", as I have made abundantly clear in previous posts.

See post17071 (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1489-The-Gift&p=17071&viewfull=1#post17071)


Then re-read post17006 (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1489-The-Gift&p=17006&viewfull=1#post17006)

The only sign given to them was Christ being dead and literally rising again in 3 days, just as the literal experience of Jonah being in a big fish for 3 days. (Lk 11:29 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/11-29.html))

Hmmm... isn't this "sign" talking about the fulfillment of the "allegory" (TYPE) called "The Passover" the 1st of the 7 Annual Holyday TYPES?

Didn't Christ make that perfectly clear to these Pharisees when He was standing there "in their midst"?

Lk 17:25 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/17-25.html):



It should be clear, if one is being honest in the search for truth, that anything should not be taken out of context.

To ignore the context of Lk 17:21, IMO, is not being honest.

Jesus was first of the firstfruits plural and, if you want to look at that as a second harvest of sorts so be it. However, I believe that Jesus is telling me today to be about the work. Clearly I am the Temple the Scripture declares it.

So I seek the literal fulfillment of those Holy Days within me first. Naturally they will eventually occur without me in mankind. I seek those living waters TO DAY. We just have a different perspective as I believe Jesus told Martha that those who are alive and believe will never see death. If Jesus transfigured, then so can I.

Because, I don't believe that Jesus was unlike me in any way. When the "sun of Righteousness" arises upon those who choose to obey Jesus, then the Kingdom will grow in numbers and while first it manifested within me, later it will manifest without me in Society - as we all become One in Trust - under The Word.

As far as I can tell the so called "end times" have been around for a long time now. Acts 2 tells me the so called "latter days" plural - two days - two thousand years - have been ongoing now for some time.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:


[B]Seems Peter was thinking he was living in the last days!

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:


I suppose that must have been a first out pouring maybe it was in the beginning of the latter days? I am sure that I will never find truth in my own vain undertakings. I didn't write the book.

I find it hilarious that only Jesus and the woman were at the well - and here we have a line by line discourse as if perhaps a scribe was standing by to record the dialog. Oh yes, I know it was an inspired story that John received of the Holy Spirit - sort of like a Parable.


Maybe John was there to give a first hand witness......no that couldn't be true else...


Joh 4:8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)


One day Pentecost shall happen throughout all of mankind and so too will Tabernacles. Of that there is no doubt. The stars declare it.


Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psa 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

Psa 19:3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

Psa 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

Psa 19:5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

Psa 19:6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.



Joh_3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.


Regarding context.....here it is in its totality...v 22 changes subject and verse 19 ends a subject.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Comment: So why are many looking for signs [observations]? I guess many just don't belve Jesus

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Comment: That is pretty blunt to me. He is saying it is not going to be setup here or there on the earth - as many would like the "new streets of gold" to replace the Roman rule...there is nothing new!




Shalom,
MJ

doug555
03-22-15, 01:34 AM
J...

Regarding context.....here it is in its totality...v 22 changes subject and verse 19 ends a subject.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Comment: So why are many looking for signs [observations]? I guess many just don't belve Jesus

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Comment: That is pretty blunt to me. He is saying it is not going to be setup here or there on the earth - as many would like the "new streets of gold" to replace the Roman rule...there is nothing new!

Shalom,
MJ

Context again:

"...he answered them... the kingdom of God is within you."

This context shows that "within you" must NOT be the proper translation, as you agree that would obviously be wrong, with them being Pharisees.

Therefore,"in your midst" must be the proper translation.

Keith Alan
03-22-15, 02:57 AM
Let us not forget that...

"For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there I am in their midst."

allodial
03-22-15, 03:19 AM
Let us not forget that...

"For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there I am in their midst."

Kind've like saying "its right in your faces"? Interestingly and much related, many have seemed to miss the the point and meaning of Ezekiel 48:35. If I were speaking to the Pharisees, I wouldn't suggest the kingdom to be in them but "in their faces" or the like.


Jesus Christ could not have been telling the Pharisees that God's Kingdom was something that existed within their hearts or minds—after all, these were people who wanted to destroy Him

Perhaps the modern-day legalists are similar to the Pharisees of the day? How can anyone look for an earthly kingdom or seat of governance when:

#1 Ephesians says its heavenly
#2 In the book of John its clear that its "not of this world".

Even modern-day Hindus and African Christians or Hebrews readily accept the idea that India and and the Aryans weren't necessarily statist nations and that they weren't necessarily a "biological race", but were distinct cultures or 'tribes'. You can have the same culture and live hundreds of miles apart and be part of the same tribe or nation. Even the U.S. Government's 14th amendment citizenship seems to me to just be a reiteration of how a king or kingdom can be personal, territorial or both personal and territorial. It seems many Westerners have been too quick to impose statist models on the past and so fail to see how a kingdom doesn't necessarily have to be associated with a crayon-colorable shape on a map. Just say no to Babylonian Kool-Aid--Daniel did.

So whoever has promoted bloodshed, poverty, temple desecration for the deceptive guise of setting up a Jesus Christ's kingdom on earth through the sword might have some 'splainin' to do (not naming any names) AFAIK, Matthew 26:52 isn't an exhortation against self-defense but a warning on the dangers of the use of conventional warfare to prosper or to evangelize. Matthew 26:52 to me is like "LOL put that sword away, you're missing the point. consider the ramifications." Clearly the intent was nothing along the lines of an earthly military campaign. He would have ridden a horse (war sign) instead of a donkey (peace sign) and summoned the might of the many more. Obviously, he wasn't trying to set up an earthly kingdom.


Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Matt. 23:27

How on earth (semi-pun intended) could he be telling them that the kingdom of God was inside of them? Surely dead men's bones and all uncleanness isn't the kingdom of God!

Related:
Luke 17:20-21: Is the Kingdom "Within You" or "In Your Midst"? (http://theologicalstudies.org/blog/436-luke-1720-21-is-the-kingdom-qwithin-youq-or-qin-your-midstq)

Keith Alan
03-22-15, 03:31 AM
Kind've like saying "its right in your faces"? Interestingly and much related, many have seemed to miss the the point and meaning of Ezekiel 48:35.

Yes, very interesting and much related. Thanks for bringing that point.

allodial
03-22-15, 03:57 AM
If he were talking to believers, I could go with "within you".

Keith Alan
03-22-15, 04:01 AM
If he were talking to believers, I could go with "within you".

I'm reading the Halleluyah Scriptures translation, which is from the Aramaic. I find it really strikes a chord with me.

David Merrill
03-22-15, 04:48 AM
I have that translation and set it aside, believing that it is simply a typical translation with the word LORD substituted with Yehovah in paleo-Hebrew.

Keith Alan
03-22-15, 05:15 AM
I have that translation and set it aside, believing that it is simply a typical translation with the word LORD substituted with Yehovah in paleo-Hebrew.
When I read it, it speaks to me. It seems fresh, and new.

Until recently, I've favored the AV. For many years, this was bolstered by my understanding (even if somewhat inaccurate) that the AV, being written in the King's English, illuminated the legal nature of the Bible as applied in law.

But I find the Halleluyah Scriptures refreshing. I saw on YouTube that the publishers are working on a new concordance, and I'm awaiting it with great anticipation.

David Merrill
03-22-15, 05:48 AM
Thank you.


I will take another look at it. I was expecting that I would have the paleo-Hebrew (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImcl9ScFdvdHJjRkU/view?usp=sharing) and the direct translation.

The Word speaks to you, and that is great. I may have dismissed that particular translation early. If I get the concordance with it, then I think you may be onto what I was hoping for.

Keith Alan
03-22-15, 06:09 AM
Yes, the paleo-Hebrew is what drew me to it. I take it you've studied the otiot? I began studying it about a month ago, and I find it fascinating, especially how it connects to the English language.

BLBereans
03-22-15, 02:35 PM
I view Acts 2 as a reclaiming of the Nations after being dispersed at the Tower of Babel. The Nations were disinherited and immediately Abraham was called to be the "father" of God's portion, Israel. The other Nations were given over to their "passion fruit" and lesser divine beings ("Beney Elohim") governed over them as punishment.

The 120 that were present at the event of Pentecost were inspired to accept the gospel and go back to their "homeland" to preach the good news. They were astonded that the gospel was being spoken in their own native language by people who would otherwise not be able to utter a single word they could understand. This is God's way of reclaiming the scattered people and infiltrating the false god worshiping Nations with the True Word of The Most High God.

I believe this event actually happened (not merely allegorical) as did other events depicted in scripture. Those who do NOT see the Kingdom as being here and now in any way are mistaken; Jesus' mere presence on earth brought the Kingdom. However, it is here - but not yet; there is more to come. The full manifestation of the Kingdom is literal in my opinion; a global Eden. Obviously, the language used by the ancients to describe such a Kingdom comes from an ancient worldview using descriptive analogies understood by those who were their contemporaries.

It would be counterproductive and useless to write in any other way; we, in this day and age, have the ability and resources to learn the ancient languages, traditions and cultures so that we can better understand the context and mindset of an "Israelite" and the ancient near east culture they lived in.

In my opinion:

To say NOTHING is allegorical is folly. To say EVERYTHING is allegorical is also folly.

Why do we care about what people did thousands of years ago? Because the Author and Creator of the Heavens and earth is unlimited in His ability and capacity and He knows that the lives of the people He directly spoke to in biblical times would benefit us greatly if we interpret the meaning and message He has authored through them by His Divine Providence.

Allegory is a most useful and beneficial tool for teaching. However, it does NOT totally dismiss or negate the literal; they work symbiotically to convey The Way our Father wants us to live our actual lives.

Here is a excellent teaching directly related to this post:

http://www.nakedbiblepodcast.com/naked-bible-37-acts-21-21/

allodial
03-23-15, 04:19 AM
Acts 2 was not mere allegory. Jesus told them to tarry. After the formal conferring to him in heaven of a kingdom (Ephesians 1), he endued them with that power (ala Ephesians 2). The reason why fallen angels would be keen on denying the resurrection or death of Jesus is because the resurrection precedes the ascension and the ascension precedes the formal conferring of the kingdom (per Ephesians 1). As in, denying one thing bar the other.

Acts 2 is record of Jesus completing his primary mission or at least a primary phase thereof. From tents and tabernacles to temples, Acts 2 clearly evidences that something of great importance was accomplished.

As for the 'upper room' thing, the allegorical or symbolic help serves to help rather than invalidate. If generations were taught to wash cups on the inside first then wash the outside and later learned it was symbolic or allegorical concerning how they need to be clean on the inside (mentally, in speech, in thought) first and foremost over outer appearances: would it mean they should stop washing cups at all just because they get the allegory/symbolism?

allodial
03-24-15, 02:54 PM
If he were talking to believers, I could go with "within you".

Re: the above...was a bit hurried so was unable to add more. Regardless of their (the Pharisees in the audience) dispositions or condition, he was very likely speaking to them--even the Pharisees--with the hope that they would see the light so to speak, whether then or afterwards--with the hope that they would be willing to get rid of the bones/skeletons and dirt (something to do with repentance?). Was not His goal was to save as many of them as possible at the time? Furthermore, can it be presumed of the Pharisees present that all unwaveringly opposed him at the time? Also, regardless of any bad press the Pharisees may have received, perhaps the Pharisees were in a sense "believers" or "members of the club" under the pre-70AD 'cosmos' then? Regardless of how they treated him or what he knew they might do to him, he still with love in his heart spoke to them with truth.


But there is no clear attestation for such a meaning as "among" or "in the midst" for the adverb {entos} in any ancient Greek source. It is indisputable that "within" is the ordinary meaning, and the immediate context here also seems to favor this meaning. Here Christ is obviously contrasting the outward appearance (... "with observation," v. 20) with the inner spiritual reality of God’s rule. It was understood thus by the translators of all the ancient versions, and by all the Church fathers. Moreover, as S.C. Carpenter explains, "For 'among' S. Luke would have said ... {en mesos--Greek doesn't show up well here}, which occurs seven times in his Gospel (see especially xxii. 27) and four times in Acts."

The circumstance that in Luke’s narrative these words are addressed to unbelieving Jews does not make any difference, because as Olshausen says, "The expression {entos hymon} does not make the Pharisees members of the kingdom of God, but only sets before them the possibility of their being received into it, inasmuch as an internal and spiritual manifestation is made its universal criterion." (From first article/link below)

To mind came this verse:


The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs 20:27

...alongside the principle of cleaning the inside of the cup (i.e. at Matthew 23:26 were the same Greek word 'entos' is translated 'within'). Both relevant 'entos' verses have been inserted below:

2381

At Luke 17:21, the Greek is 'entos' (typically I look at the Greek or the Hebrew to glean meaning and context). At Matthew 23:26 the word for outside is 'ektos' (seems kind've opposite like enter vs. exit). IMHO, "in the midst of" or "in your midst" adequately alludes to or encompass 'within' as well. "in your midst" reading can seems more variable or 'fuzzy'. "In your midst" gives a clue to anyone that can hear and who is seeking the kingdom that it is not far off.

Furthermore, the word "you" in Jacobean English is plural as opposed to thee (which is singular).

2379

2380

I have always 'entos humon' to be 'within' or 'inside'--but remotely or possibly 'in your midst'. "In your midst" comes off as being a bit more provocative of a local search or more 'mysterious'. Also, the "two masters" dilemma is addressed or touched upon. If a man cannot serve two masters, and the kingdom of God is within or "in your midst"--definitely not far off--then it seems such a revelation or truth would push making a choice to the forefront. Puts Joshua 24:15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua+24%3A15&version=KJV) in a perspective, no?


...choose you this day whom ye will serve...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15 in part

Interestingly, I was reminded of this while going through some files before bed. Proverbs above came to mind and I just happened to rather 'coincidentally' pull out a snippet from an article related to Luke 17:21 that I had filed a while back. A link to that article (first one) should be found below along with another.

***

I don't see Luke 17:21 to be any kind of statement of 'universal godhood'--at least not in the Neo-Gnostic sense. Afterall, he was addressing the Pharisees (who were going to temple and the temple was still standing at the time of the Q&A) rather than the Samaritan woman. To knowledge, the temple was still functional and would be for another 30+ years. While the Pharisees may have been seen as being in 'spiritual adultery' or 'blind' or whatever, I'm not sure how they could have been regarded to be 'strangers' (esp. in view of the olive tree grafting paradigm). Thusly, not sure how the Q&A could on the surface be universalized.

Related:

"The Kingdom of God Is Within You" (bible-researcher.com) (http://www.bible-researcher.com/luke17.21.html)
Luke 17:21: "The Kingdom of God Is Inside 'You' the Ancient Syriac Versions In Support of the Correct Translation (PDF)(Ilaria Ramelli) (http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol12No2/HV12N2Ramelli.pdf)
The Kingdom of God is Within (Among) (in the Midst of) You (Raymond B. Marcin) (http://www.biblicaltheology.com/Research/MarcinR01.pdf)
The Kingdom in Your Midst (Luke 17:20-25) (http://www.jesuswalk.com/lessons/17_20-25.htm)


P.S. Luther translated Luke 17:21 (Ger.)using the word 'inwendig (http://www.interglot.com/dictionary/de/en/translate/inwendig?l=en%7Cde)' (which can mean 'interior', 'inside', 'indwelling' (in Dutch)) (i.e. "...man wird auch nicht sagen: Siehe hier! oder: da ist es! Denn sehet, das Reich Gottes ist inwendig in euch.")

P.S. #2 Another work suggests: "In Koine Greek, the expression entos humon (literally, "inside of you") often meant "within reach." Thus, Jesus' statement in Luke 17:21 could mean 'The kingdom is within reach.'"

P.S. #3 The Rainbow (A Magazine of Christian Literature) Volume XIII (1876) - Pages 140 & 141 (in part) (below)

Michael Joseph
03-25-15, 04:34 PM
Years ago I worked on a project at NC State university whereof said project was the development of a quantum computer. The idea was and is the basis of entanglement. In principle with the basis of Scripture as our guide - believe it or not - the emitter wave or photon which is the electron expanding into wave form can only be received by an electron vibrating at the same resonance frequency. Once the photon [light wave] is received, the 2nd electron immediately receives the encoded information and is changed. Thus it was theorized that information can move up to the speed of light as it is subject to the photon wave which can only propagate up to the speed of light.

Tangent: If you desire to discuss bending of space/time then of course the virtual path is much shorter than the actual path and thusly if you measure along the actual path it only SEEMS that information has moved faster than light but that is just an illusion.

Num 2:9 All that were numbered in the camp of Judah were an hundred thousand and fourscore thousand and six thousand and four hundred, throughout their armies. These shall first set forth.

Gee what a coincidence that the men of Judah number 186400 - THE SPEED OF LIGHT.


Jesus Christ showed us how thru meditation to make our minds receptive to receiving God's Will. I liken it simply to actually obeying Jesus' words instead of trying to intellectualize them into serving our vain religious dogmas. I love how St. Paul put it so succinctly:

Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Look at the things which ACCOMPANY salvation...

I wish to know even as I am known - then there is no hope or faith - for what is faith when you know a matter? The churched [of which I count myself] has been taught to death that we all have a portion of the Holy Spirit and I came to think that was all - but here we find a different story. If those SEVEN spirits are active - see Isaiah 11:2, then the body fills with LIGHT. Amen.

Why is it that the world is only concerned with Salvation? And that begs another question. Salvation from what? Is it death? Then explain, this one:

Mar 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Why is it that the churched accept v.26 within their conceptualization or limiting of God today - when if those men once lived they are dead now? But I see another path. Those men are symbols - they REPRESENT aspects of every living man[kind]. Otherwise, once thinking it thru, then the God in the Bible is a respecter of persons and therefore the Bible is annulled.

But I see a different story - Christ in ALL - a standing wave of light - which is ready to be received by those of pure consciousness. That is those who obey. For why do they call Jesus lord and do not obey? I know the answer - because dogmatic religion gets in the way. Traditions of men as it were.

But our ego in use of the ten percent of our so called "left brain" stands in the temple of God and shows that it is God - ruling in this vessel called the body. This was a devastating revelation.

I now see the 12 disciples as the twelve aspects of thought that stand ready to serve us as apostles. I am unsure if these are dispatched from the sub-conscious or the super-conscious but these are already taught ones awaiting one with authority to send them forth into the world - which is our conscious mind. Of course our ego in intellectualism gets in the way as most of the world is trying to "figure out" by intellect. When in fact the method prescribed by Jesus Christ is one of sacrifice [ten percent] of our carnal mind. Take every thought captive.

At-ONE-ment means much more to me this day than any other day before. To be in resonance with our Lord is to be in The Way of God - thusly the Bible is telling me how to be receptive to Jesus and Jesus is telling me how to bend my ear to "hear" the tune.

Can you show me anywhere in the Old Testament where John [the Baptist] received his authority to Baptize? Where did this revelation of God's Will come? Certainly not from the traditions of man's vain understandings - Church systems.

I feel like a man on a new journey. Recently in meditation I came to see purple and the experience was well amazing in sensation. But then another wild thing happened -in the middle of the night, with my eyes closed, sitting in the dark - I was bathed in yellow light. So I asked for Wisdom and the light shut off. I have come to realize that I asked improperly - which is to say not in the methods that Jesus declared. We are to ask as if we already have what we desire. Therefore we implant the seed of thought into the Womb of Creation [Holy Spirit] and She brings forth the child of our desires. Next time I am at that place I will know better. Alas this too is a part of discipline - a student must be a doer.

So a man can proclaim his beliefs upon the waters but I prefer those who perform [do] before those who just understand. That DNA stuff that we have is some amazing code - when one gets around to studying just how amazing it is one is at once convinced a Creator exists. So then there must be a method of communication.

Mat_6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

In watching my thoughts - the wave collapses into an Electron and I am now in reception mode. When I am active upon my intellect [carnal mind] then, I am upon my thoughts [spotted cattle of Jacob] and I cannot receive the pure white cattle of God [thoughts of God].

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Therefore I climb the Mountain in my prayer closet - not speaking or uttering words but in not speaking - emotional intellectualism is sacrificed on the alter as a sweet odor unto the Lord in obedience! I have become a watcher of the cattle in hopes of shepherding the sheep [thoughts] of God as Abel the Righteous. For any scientist will tell you our bodies are electrical systems. And to the pragmatic, please with specificity using any coordinate system of your choosing define and locate your next thought in TIME and SPACE.

For it has been revealed to me that I am as Cain in my intellect rationalizing myself into the arms of the Savior. Therefore who am I to judge my brother. This is a personal journey. Therefore who am I to save another? One who believes will seek, do and find. Of course, I am not seeking to tell anyone "how it is" or "what to think". I am not like the Pastor who says this is the way it is. Rather, I share my experience for what it is.

I mean just ask any religionist what is God's Will - wait for the silence - then after the hamster has been around the wheel a couple of times - await the intellectual rationalization of nonsense - which basically means - "I have no idea what I'm talking about so I have to justify myself so that I can sleep better at night." Answers such as "you have to find God's Will for your life" - are such nonsense answers because "no duh". Tell me something I don't know! Like how to "bend my ear to hear the tune".

Let it be known, there is a fountain. That was not made by the hands of men....

Zec 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.

If you think me to deny Jesus Christ, then you think wrong. Rather I uphold Jesus in actually obeying what he taught.

Mat_6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

Mat_6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


To believe in Jesus means to place ones trust in Jesus and one trusting appoints the Trustee Lord over the Estate. Therefore, Jesus asks why do you call me Lord and do not obey me? One who submits in trust is now subject to the bylaws of the trust agreement. But we read that the Carnal Mind cannot be subject to the bylaws! Are you starting to see?

continuing....

Michael Joseph
03-25-15, 04:34 PM
xtalk from another discussion:

Michael...I appreciate your prayer and I recognize the full worth of your kindness and patients without complaint...I'm aware that this situation with my family is only problematic in my mind while we are trying to move from one place in thought to another [Cain vs. Able] ....It's a hard transition, My wife and I grew up in the so called intellectual movement...The "Cain" Me Generation...I know that-that may just sound like a label or hearsay ...but it was definitely a time never seen before on college campuses that had great influence...But that's not an excuse!....As you probably know, the process and period of time changing from one state or condition to another is not easy...I'm finding that the learning process is not done over night....My wife and I are slowly but surely working our way out of the basement of our mind towards the top floor with a goal of giving all 10% to God....I think that you are right...It takes lots of meditation, a lot of practice, and lots of discipline....Your help in this is beyond measure! I could never have been able to EVEN start the process without your HELP! Thank you!...

=======

Response by MJ:

One day you will help another. The Kingdom of God IS LIKE one who finds a pearl of GREAT PRICE. Once he finds that pearl all else just doesn't matter. So it is very personal. I can only point you in the right direction. You must do the work. Now I know that too flies in the face of modern do nothing religion. But the word "believe" in John 3:16 means "to place in trust or entrust". If I enter into trust with you then we two become one in trust and we two are bound by the bylaws of the trust agreement.

To try to use an example, your wife might write a letter to you telling you she wants to meet you for supper at [name your restaurant] at 6pm. If you don't show up then you will not enjoy her company and furthermore, you will not receive what she wants to tell you! In part, that is what the Bible is telling you - how to make that 6pm date!

We discipline ourselves and this is like daily knocking on the door - expecting that the good master is home and eventually he will get tired of the knocking. He tarries a bit to test the resolve. Is this just another carnal being bent on getting [another beggar at the gate] or has real change occurred?

Said another way: Luk_16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

Luk 16:12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

Abraham told his servants to stay at the base of the mountain with his ass - his carnal mind could not ascend into the mountain. Issac was the child of Sarah - which is to say that which is given from God. Are you ready to even put to death what has been granted from God in order to win Christ?

Php_3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,


In deed the foregoing is a hard lesson to learn and to accept. It is hard to hear. Nevertheless the fleshly minded ones are at enmity against God and flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God! Now we see clearly St. Paul was not advising suicide in the following and we understand the death to be of the carnal mind.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Nevertheless I do not deny the flesh for in doing so would be denying my own flesh. Rather, I look past the flesh to learn the Spiritual truths of God. St. Paul gave the key in his discourse concerning Christ JESUS and Jesus CHRIST.

I trust the words of Jesus so that I might show up for the 6pm supper with Christ! Amen. Abram/Abraham/Issac/Jacob/Leah/Rachel are therefore all aspects of me. But I do not discount their physical existence even though it means little to the Spirit because flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Speaking concerning flesh and blood vs. the Kingdom of God:

Mat_11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

And considering the teachings of the man Christ JESUS we find that ALL THINGS that were taught were done in parable:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

1Jn_1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Jas_1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Mat_5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.



An outward expression of the inner truth.

Pro 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he....


There is no collective Salvation. And certainly the things that ACCOMPANY salvation are not collective as well.


Make it a great day!
Michael Joseph

BLBereans
03-25-15, 10:22 PM
Well, I can mostly agree with these last posts. Either I was totally missing your stance before or you have backed off a bit; I am still on the fence about that.

Of course I can agree with the assertion that we must always be diligent after what is ultimately important; being spiritually-minded and NOT seeking to build up treasures on earth. Do not be pre-occupied regarding carnal thoughts and desires and keep your focus on the Kingdom of God.

However, discounting the flesh altogether leans toward the neo-gnostic and theosophic. I do not buy into the "we're not really here, it's all just an illusion" theory.

I apologize if I misconstrued your views.

Michael Joseph
03-26-15, 02:45 AM
Well, I can mostly agree with these last posts. Either I was totally missing your stance before or you have backed off a bit; I am still on the fence about that.

Of course I can agree with the assertion that we must always be diligent after what is ultimately important; being spiritually-minded and NOT seeking to build up treasures on earth. Do not be pre-occupied regarding carnal thoughts and desires and keep your focus on the Kingdom of God.

However, discounting the flesh altogether leans toward the neo-gnostic and theosophic. I do not buy into the "we're not really here, it's all just an illusion" theory.

I apologize if I misconstrued your views.

I have found that folks hear what they want to hear. Nevertheless I would that each man would be an independent thinker and that religion be completely destroyed. I appreciate your honesty.

Exo_19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

The other day a woman tried to tell me that the eye on the back of the dollar was the eye of Lucifer. She said why are you laughing? I said I view it as the eye of Providence. There are no idols in my book. I am free in Christ. I could have just said prove it with first hand knowledge and testimony that she was privy to the development of the seal, but then again, that would be a complete waste of my time because I knew she was spewing words that were given to her - cut/pasted upon her fragile mind. And that would only alienate her from further discourse.

Genesis Ch 1 reflects either a renewing of terrestrial man into the Celestial Man or it could even be rendered the Creation of matter.

Either way:

Gen_1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.




Regards,
MJ

allodial
03-27-15, 06:32 AM
I have found that folks hear what they want to hear. Nevertheless I would that each man would be an independent thinker and that religion be completely destroyed.

Even your way of thinking or beliefs is a religion by definition. It seems that you are keen on everyone subscribing to the same system of beliefs or way of life (i.e. religion by definition) as in: you want them to have your religion. Even the atheist has a religion.

Related:

Everything is a Religion (https://abiasedperspective.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/everything-is-a-religion/)
eschatology (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eschatology)



Num 2:9 All that were numbered in the camp of Judah were an hundred thousand and fourscore thousand and six thousand and four hundred, throughout their armies. These shall first set forth.

Gee what a coincidence that the men of Judah number 186400 - THE SPEED OF LIGHT.

If the underlying Hebrew actually had a mention to something to do with light, finding significance in that number might make sense. However, if someone has a phone number 1 864 400, do I presume them to have something to do with light? A more useful significance of the numbers in each tribe around the tabernacle is that when checking the populations proportionally, the tents and tabernacle would have formed a cross if viewed then from above.

2393

Michael Joseph
03-27-15, 02:09 PM
Even your way of thinking or beliefs is a religion by definition. It seems that you are keen on everyone subscribing to the same system of beliefs or way of life (i.e. religion by definition) as in: you want them to have your religion. Even the atheist has a religion.

I am not here asking or wanting anything of anyone. Like I said people will see and hear what they want to see and hear. I would that every man come to find the Tree of Life within himself [no gender]. I care not for the collective mind. So if you don't agree with me, well that is GREAT. That means that you are thinking for yourself. But do please try not to cast dispersions of libel upon me based on your inability to accept my presentments. Rather I would that you might broadcast your thoughts upon the waters.

I don't get down with the party line. I hold that religion is a great sickness.

Isa 1:6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

Shalom,
MJ

doug555
03-27-15, 11:46 PM
Let us not forget that...

"For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there I am in their midst."



If he were talking to believers, I could go with "within you".


Thanks for your posts, Keith and allodial, which leads me to this point:

In Acts 1:6 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/1-6.html), the Apostles asked basically the same question as the Pharisees:


6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"


But Christ did not tell them (the Apostles) that the "kingdom is within you".

Why not?

That would have been a perfect time to say the same thing to them that He said to the Pharisees!

Instead, in Acts 1:7 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/1-7.html), Christ told them (the Apostles) this:


7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

Notice:
1. Christ did not correct them and explain that the kingdom of God was already "within them", and not to look for some external, literal, future event.
2. Christ did not correct them and explain that the kingdom was not coming until Holyday #4, the Feast of Trumpets.
3. Christ did correct them and explain that it was not for them to know when the times and epochs of when the Kingdom was coming.
4. Christ did tell them what there job and focus was - to be witnesses (Acts 1:8 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/1-8.html)) of the fulfillment of Holyday #1, with Him dying and being resurrected as the Passover Lamb.

So, by Christ saying that they would not know when the kingdom was coming, is He not acknowledging their perception of a future literal kingdom as being correct?

If not, then wouldn't it have been a perfect opportunity to correct them by saying "the kingdom is within you", and is not coming in the future "with signs to be observed" (NAS)?

But Christ didn't. Because it is NOT coming with signs to be observed by them (the Apostles) and those Pharisees, in that generation.

Those signs are reserved for the End Time Generation (Mt 24 and Lk 21:25-32). That end time generation will observe the signs!

Now we see the context much better, given this perspective above.

Even so, the Apostles and the early church still believed the kingdom was literally coming in their lifetime. You can see evidence of this belief in Peter's and Paul's early writings. Later, when it did not come, they realized this mistake.

But many saints still thought it was imminent. And, then by the 2nd Century, they became very disappointed and disillusioned.

I believe that the doctrine and philosophy of Gnosticism became a convenient and convincing coping mechanism for these disappointed saints. It provided a way to "save face" against their critics who said such a "faith" in a literal kingdom on earth was "foolishness (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/passage/?q=1+corinthians+1:18-31)".

Listen, Gnosticism is directly linked to the lack of knowledge and understanding of Holydays 2 & 3!

If the saints had reflected and meditated upon the FACT that Holyday 1 was just fulfilled by Jesus, why did they not ask about when Holyday 2 was to occur?

And then when Holyday 3 would occur?

Why, instead did they jump all the way to when Holyday 4 would occur?

I believe the focus of the religious leaders/experts of that age was always on the Coming of the Messiah (Holyday 4). They were not looking for a "Passover Lamb".

One would think that the Jews, as one of the Tribes of Israel, who had been keeping all of these Holydays every year since the time of their Exodus from Egypt would have been looking for the fulfillment of each of these TYPES that they were portraying and repeating annually.

Then when the ANTI-TYPE of Holyday 1 occurs right "in their midst" they cannot see it! Amazing, isn't it? How could they be so blind?

If the early saints had been focused on Holyday 2 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/) being the NEXT Holyday, they would have been able to answer their critics, and not have to resort to Gnosticism as an explanation for the delay in the literal coming of the kingdom.

Okay, now consider how we are doing TODAY, who believe and know that Jesus fulfilled Holyday 1, Passover.

Are we TODAY looking for and praying for the NEXT Holyday to occur? Holyday 2?

Are we doing any better than the Jews?

Think seriously about this! Especially since Passover is about to be observed again this year in a few days.

Will Christ say to us as He did to Peter "Get behind Me, Satan. You are a stumblingblock to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."? (Mt 16:23 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/16-23.html))

God's interest and focus right now is on fulfilling the very NEXT Holyday in His Master Plan depicted by His 7 Annual Holydays.

Where is ours?

It was not for the Apostles to know the times and epochs for the rest of the Holydays.

But isn't it for us today?

Isn't that what is being revealed by https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/), in accord with Isa 41:27 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/isaiah/41-27.html)?

Isn't it time to Sign This Petition (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/worldwide-petition-for-divine-intervention/) and show Our Father our acknowledgement and appreciation for what He and His Son have done for us by literally fulfilling Holyday 1, making The Gift (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-gift/) possible for us TODAY?

Psalms 95 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/psalms/95.html)

Keith Alan
03-28-15, 12:54 AM
@ doug555

I don't sign petitions, but I'll make one anyway. Thanks.

allodial
03-28-15, 01:27 AM
Some of the Gnosticism seems a lot like the idea of having the brazen serpent surrounded in fog or in a veil. They claim to be bringing wisdom by obscuring the heck out of the remedy. The program was so simple, faith...believe...you look at the serpent, you are saved. Jesus Christ isn't be equated to any serpent, just the foreshadowing was that the faith mechanism which would be used to bring salvation.


You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; John 5:39

Hmm maybe John 5:39 was in reference to their Gnosticism as in their tendency to look through scriptures ignoring the face meanings and looking for "secret codes" instead?


Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Acts 7:49

The issue with the original idea being referred per the OP, is that they skipped mention of Pentecost 33AD which is highly significant. Ephesians 1 & 2 even assert the significance. Pentecost day after Exodus was very similar. My references are to Ephesians chapters 1 and 2 rather than to Luke 17:21. It seemed curious that the Pentecost after the resurrection was not mentioned.


All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matthew 28:18

That is what Jesus said after the resurrection. Again the key thing that I inquired about (an inquiry rather than a dismissal of the OP topic) is why is the first Passover mentioned but the immediately following Pentecost not mentioned?


Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand... Acts 2:29-34.

Now turning attention to AFTER the ascension and the conferring of the kingdom. The conferring of the kingdom is also mentioned in Acts 2. Its not only mentioned, it is explained and is in harmony with Isaiah 66:1.


...And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Ephesians 1:19-23


And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:19-23

Sit is not referring to a comfy chair to play the XBox.

Acts 2:29-34, Ephesians 1:19-23, Ephesians 2:6-7, Isaiah 66:1 seem to all be related. I don't see any mention of the footstool being the throne. That the kingdom extends to earth that is one thing. The kingdom being seated on earth seems contrary to the scriptures.

http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2367&d=1426470706

So again, in all of the interesting-ness of the topic of the OP, why is reference to the Pentecost following the resurrection/Passover missing? Here again, I refer to Ephesians chapters 1 & 2 along with Acts 2 and tot he meaning of the word 'sit' or 'seat' (as in kathizo in Greek). Related is the latin term "sessio" and the term "sedes".

2404

What does a judge sit on? A bench? A bench is a type of seat. I have seen and daily experience the power of God. I have witnessed and experienced healings. The kingdom is now and current--in session and has been at the very least least since around Pentecost day following the resurrection. From scriptural evidence, I'm not sure how such notion can be refuted without bringing the scriptures in question to scrutiny.

If the believers are part of that body of Christ, and the believers are on the planet, then does not the very same kingdom find itself present in some fashion on the earth?

Regarding "trumpets"
The shofar was and is used to herald or announce the presence or entrance of a king (even for coronations). It is also said that calling upon a name or saying someone's name brings about their presence.


Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Job 38:31

Hmm...I wonder if there is any significance to the Pleaides in all of this.

This is not Gnosticism. This is based on direct revelation, through prayer which came to me over fifteen or so years ago. It might not be the "pop culture" paradigm but its rooted in scripture.

P.S. Consider the example of someone becoming sheriff. Once he becomes sheriff, he can then deputize. So if he promises to his closest supporters to make them deputies he has to wait until he takes office, right?

Related:
Jesus Christ Rules on David's Eternal Throne (http://tcc.customer.sentex.ca/Shelton/LRS-index.php?page=Israel3) (I haven't read this but a glance it looks Kosher.)