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allodial
04-02-15, 01:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYVVh2TlRog

xparte
04-02-15, 10:30 AM
Why Christ was never historically a Christian simply his ministry was to expose not impose a religion it is my humble opinion the 2nd coming of Christ is a concious awakening within your sleeping Christ its comforting what Christ said and did Christian religion that brass knuckle therapy has put us all to sleep a divine spark takes us out of rehab one cant invent a better Christ when we each spark on different ignitions but if a physical Christ was necessary for a Man & Woman of Judah then its no different when Christ shows up at a Greyhound bus station or on the Whitehorse with earth wind and fire and the Miami Horns in Central park it just does not need to happen it be great but the day millions spark as one in the Christ the message the performance waits on us all Easter whats not in your bonnet certain eggs have been hidden takes a lifetime to fill that basket . Take Christ bowling this Friday stop killin Christ or wishing someone could.My intent was not historically or religious as restricted as the video is who can explain Christ its when ones told few are qualified to even try the. Thief on the Cross puts mud in my eye

allodial
04-02-15, 03:41 PM
The video isn't about any religion or any tenets of any religion except for the historic reference to Jesus Christ. The video actually tends toward being a neutral view of the historical record. Rather than being about any religious tenets or doctrines, the thread is thusly about the non-Christian sources of evidence of the existence of Jesus and of his death by crucifixion/hanging. Backgrounder: many lies have been spread around denying his existence. Interestingly enough, according to the video, even the Talmud (https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1357-jewish-talmud-and-the-death-of-christ-the), for one, actually evidences his existence, his hanging and his working of miracles.

xparte
04-03-15, 05:20 AM
A historical Christ is not the biblical Christ thats being offered in this video is to verify paid historians view of a important figure in rabbinical yet historical treasonous cult leader. The Talmud never mentions the word Christians or does it ?when Christ was alive Christians were absent of any claim to Christ So what need for a historical account of a Christians account for a Man that they never met its all well and good for historians down the road to ridicule A Judean rabbi that upset a temple hierarchy the narration and video are well done if one thinks Christians and opinionated civil servants 100 + yrs down the road it might as well be a 1000 the fact Judah had a beef with Christ and a historical Jesus was not the one Christians took advantage of. Rome took advantage of both a historical Christ and developed a biblical Cannon Christ oddly enough while the Torah was closing its final canonical books Constantine took a historical figure that united all his Bacilica bishops to all those Christians proof so my comment is who gains the most a historian that crafts a biased based on a biased.who is the Author of Christ who every has the Authority is that Author I watched the video its claim that a greater need for the separation of Christians from a historical Christ than Rome's historical wish to kill every last Christian When it began on June 19, 325, the fires of persecution had barely cooled. The Roman Empire had been unsuccessful in its attempt to wipe out the Christian faith. Fourteen years had elapsed since the final persecutions under the Emperor Galerius had ended. Many of the men who made up the Council of Nicea bore in their bodies the scars of persecution. They had been willing to suffer for the name of Christ. So maybe historical Christ was resolvent Nicea was not creating some new doctrine, some new belief, but clearly, explicitly, defining truth against error. The council had no idea that they, by their gathering together, possessed some kind of sacramental power of defining beliefs: they sought to clarify biblical truth, not to put themselves in the forefront and make themselves a second source of authority this cut and paste is subjective.

xparte
04-03-15, 06:13 AM
And if my understanding undermines the fact a historical account of JC is less dogmatic than this Consider the following list. These are the historians and writers who DID live within Christ's alleged lifetime or within a hundred years of it, this is cut and dry how important agendas are?
Apollonius Persius
Appian Petronius
Arrian Phaedrus
Aulus Gellius Philo-Judaeus
Columella Phlegon
Damis Pliny the Elder
Dio Chrysostom Pliny the Younger
Dion Pruseus Plutarch
Epictetus Pompon Mela
Favorinus Ptolemy
Florus Lucius Quintilian
Hermogones Quintius Curtius
Josephus Seneca
Justus of Tiberius Silius Italicus
Juvenal Statius
Lucanus Suetonius
Lucian Tacitus
Lysias Theon of Smyran
Martial Valerius Flaccus
Paterculus Valerius Maximus
Pausanias
Yet, aside from two FORGED passages in the works of a Jewish writer mentioned above, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there isn't ANY mention of Jesus Christ. At all. Consider:
"Philo was born before the beginning of the Christian era, and lived until long after the reputed death of Christ. He wrote an account of the Jews covering the entire time that Christ is said to have existed on earth. He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ's miraculous birth and the Herodian massacred occurred. He was there when Christ made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness, and resurrection of the dead took place -- when Christ himself rose from the dead, and in the rpesence of many witnesses ascended into heaven.
"These marvelous events which must have filled the world with amazement, had they really occurred, we unknown to him. It was Philo who developed the doctrine of the Logos, or Word, and although this Word incarnate dwelt in that very land and in the presence of multitudes revealed himself and demonstrated his divine powers, Philo saw it not.

"Justus of Tiberius was a native of Christ's own country, Galilee. He wrote a history covering this time of Christ's reputed existence. This work has perished, but Photius, a Christian scholar and critic of the ninth century, who was acquainted with it, says: 'He (Justus) makes not the least mention of the appearances of Christ, of what things happened to him, or of the wonderful works that he did' (Photius' Bibliotheca, code 33).

"Josephus: Late in the first century, Josephus wrote his celebrated work, _The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews_, giving a history of his race from the earliest ages down to his own time. Modern versions of this work contain the following passage:

"'Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was (the) Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. (Book XVIII, Chapter iii, Section 3).'
"For nearly sixteen hundred years Christians have been citing this passage as a testimonial, not merely to the historical existence, but to the divine character of Jesus Christ. And yet a ranker forgery was never penned.
"Its language is Christian. Every line proclaims it the work of a Christian writer. 'If it be lawful to call him a man.' 'He was the Christ.' 'He appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.'

"These are the words of a Christian, a believer in the divinity of Christ. Josephus was a Jew, a devout believer in the Jewish faith -- the last man in the world to acknowledge the divinity of Christ. The inconsistency of this evidence was early recognized, and Abrose, writing in the generation succeeding its first appearance (360 A.D.), offers the following explanation, which only a theologican could frame:

"'If the Jews do not believe us, let them, at least, believe their own writers. Josephus, whom they esteem a great man, hath said this, and yet hath he spoken truth after such a manner; and so far was his mind wandered from the right way, that even he was not a believer as to what he himself said; but thus he spake, in order to deliver historical truth, because he thought it not lawful for him to deceive, while yet he was no believer, because of the hardness of his heart, and his perfidious intentiion.'
"Its brevity disproves its authenticity. Josephus' work is voluminous and exhaustive. It comprises twenty books. Whole pages are devoted to petty robbers and obscure seditious leaders. Nearly fourty chapters are devoted to the life of a single king. Yet this remarkable being, the greatest product of his race, a being of whom the prophets foretold ten thousand wonderful things, a being greater than any earthly king, is dismissed with a dozen lines."
-- The Christ, by John E. Remsburg, reprinted by Prometheus Books, New York, 1994, pages 171-3. A
If Christ needs historical facts we all know facts are on the moon Flavius Josephus fully defected to the Roman side and was granted Roman citizenship. He became an advisor and friend of Vespasian's son Titus, serving as his translator when Titus led the Siege of Jerusalem,

allodial
04-03-15, 09:33 AM
Regardless of the baseless hatred that many spew in view of the historical record--not to mention the historical record of the Celts and British and pre-Roman Christians at Glastonbury, etc., the video simply states historical evidence of the existence of Jesus, the crucifixion/hanging of Jesus and the miracle working and includes the Talmud itself as a source of such information. The modern trend is to lie, lie, lie just for the sake of lying so as to get as many folks over into worshiping (i.e. serving) the creatures of men as possible.

Its worth noting that term "Christian" was also used by Simon Magus' followers. Biblically, it is a term that was used to refer to followers of Jesus by those at Antioch. Furthermore, the Romans are said to have embraced Simon Magus but to have rejected Jesus. So this idea of Rome being aligned with Jesus seems rather fallacious.

Christian, Christ, Anointed, Anointings
More noteworthy is the significance of having an anointing in the OT and the NT. To be anointed is to be granted power and authority by God. Anointed and the word Christ are rather hand-in-hand. The concept is not new to the Brit Hassadah or NT. Anointing was the key to power rather than some mystical, secret rite.

If Josephus defected to the side of the Romans wouldn't he have been more inclined to have said hateful/negative things about Jesus especially since the Romans were clearly on a mission to exterminate his followers? Wouldn't he have simply omitted mention? I have trouble seeing how anyone with a a sane, clear-minded, reasonable perspective could see Josephus as anything other than neutral. Among the "plebes", it was believed that the presence of the followers of Jesus were the cause behind the failing of the oracles and such following the crucifixion--so the Romans tended to blame the followers of Jesus and associate their presence with inhibition of the functioning of oracles, etc. Clearly, Josephus would not have been biased with the Romans and made any positive mention of Jesus. If Josephus was highly partial to the Romans it is more likely that he would omitted mention of Jesus or would have simply been negative.

Traitors Against?
If Josephus or Jesus were traitors, who could they possibly have been traitors against? In ancient Israel, was there such a thing as being a traitor against anyone other than God? Did not Daniel with Divine Assistance foretell the events that transpired by 70AD? Who would call Daniel a traitor?

As for later fiddling with Testimonium Flavium it is possible. Skepticism might be an antiseptic for the mind, but blind hatred posing as truthfulness is far from that. In any cause, comparison of Greek and Arabic texts shows that in any case, his (Jesus') existence, his being crucified and the resurrection are found in both the Greek and Arabic copies.


2484

Note: The underlined portions are alleged to be 'interpolations' or 'inserts'. So if we throw those out, we are left with a record that shows the existence and crucifixion of Jesus along with reference to the notion of his having been resurrected. Its worth noting that the Pentateuch has at least one resurrection event.


***

The idea of Roman State Religion being the source of the doctrines of Jesus is a myth purposed to bury the truth. How could Roman State Religion be the source of what was clearly external to and allegedly embraced by Constantine hundreds of years after 70AD? The Romans started on a campaign to destroy and undermine the Ecclesia's positions throughout North Africa and the British Isles and the historical record shows it. Even Afro-Centric writers such as Chancellor Williams (http://www.africanafrican.com/folder11/world%20history3/african%20and%20african%20american%20history/the-destruction-of-black-civilization-chancellor-williams.pdf) and history about the Hawaiian Kahunas allege a destructive and spiritual subterfuge coming from Rome to their lands.

The video while not centered on Josephus, does contain clarifications about the multiple statements Josephus made about Jesus--there was more than one reference. But Josephus isn't the only. Again this intended to be historical rather than philosophical.

Also, anyone with wisdom then regarded the 66-70AD to be a Divine Judgment period rather than a mere war. Josephus (a priest) may have seen what others may have been unwilling or unable to see. Its interesting that Josephus was regarded to be a traitor but where are such allegations are made against Daniel or Esther? Josephus was held as a slave/captive until 69AD. Josephus was a priest and perhaps was highly aware that prophecies were unfolding right before his eyes then. Josephus is said to have been aware of Daniel's timeline and regarded it to be significant to his time.

When I do research, I avoid going in with hateful bias or expecting this or that.

Resurrection
Regardless of the fallacies that some have attempted to propagate, the OT and the NT are hardly disconnected. Resurrections are mentioned in several places in the OT.


1 Kings 17:17-24 (KJV)
2 Kings 4:35 (KJV)
1 Kings 13:21 (KJV)

The concept or idea of belief of resurrection of the dead is mentioned also:


Job 19:25
Daniel 12:2
Isaiah 26:19.

So when the same people who attack Josephus also deny such and such is in the OT (baptism/mikveh (http://www.wildolive.co.uk/baptism.htm), resurrection) such gives even more cause for being very prayerful or cautious about believing what they say--because why would they say such things unless they are hiding something? Likewise, a healthy skepticism should go into reading much of anything. Even still, if all sides are hiding something, what are they hiding? Is it worth finding out?

Related:

Was Josephus A Traitor? (http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?1471-Was-Josephus-a-traitor)
Regarding the Quotes From the Historian Josephus About Jesus (https://carm.org/regarding-quotes-historian-josephus-about-jesus)
How Daniel 9 Anticipates the Destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 (http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/prophecy/AD70/Dan9.html)
The Jewish Talmud and the Death of Christ (https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1357-jewish-talmud-and-the-death-of-christ-the)
Ecclesiastical Researches (1812--entire book) (https://books.google.com/books?id=rcoCAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover)

xparte
04-03-15, 06:14 PM
And my discourse being I have plenty to hide or plenty to find my history is hidden in Christ and if any one can bring that forward including all the crews wrapped in nations claiming nothing is new under the Son gentiles and jews a big family I love you.

Michael Joseph
04-03-15, 09:21 PM
Why Christ was never historically a Christian simply his ministry was to expose not impose a religion it is my humble opinion the 2nd coming of Christ is a concious awakening within your sleeping Christ its comforting what Christ said and did Christian religion that brass knuckle therapy has put us all to sleep a divine spark takes us out of rehab one cant invent a better Christ when we each spark on different ignitions but if a physical Christ was necessary for a Man & Woman of Judah then its no different when Christ shows up at a Greyhound bus station or on the Whitehorse with earth wind and fire and the Miami Horns in Central park it just does not need to happen it be great but the day millions spark as one in the Christ the message the performance waits on us all Easter whats not in your bonnet certain eggs have been hidden takes a lifetime to fill that basket . Take Christ bowling this Friday stop killin Christ or wishing someone could.My intent was not historically or religious as restricted as the video is who can explain Christ its when ones told few are qualified to even try the. Thief on the Cross puts mud in my eye

Jesus Christ did not teach to worship himself he showed however how incredible we each are! I am just like Jesus in every way and so is every man and woman. If that was not the case then what is this all about? But to heck with my logic. I care not for my own vain reasonings.

Here we are again in another Passover season, the Sun of God has gone thru the Southern Cross and is consuming Aries now and Springtime has come again! The trees are regenerating, stretching their arms towards heaven. And the winter of our discontent is over. Yet folks are preparing to eat and drink physical food and observing a physical day as if that has anything to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Someone sent me this page today in jest we both laughed at this one. (http://www.philosopherspage.com/#/psychoactive-plants-in-the-bible/)


I suppose one might take the Bible literally but I take the oil [Christos] to be something else altogether. Certainly it is not physical else the parable of the ten virgins makes no sense at all [Matt 25].

Heb_1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


In speaking to the OIL we see both feminine and masculine natures: El [Masc] Ah [Feminine] Yah [Sacred Name YH]

G1636
elaia
el-ah'-yah

Feminine of a presumed derivative from an obsolete primary; olive oil


Also the manna might be taken to be literal stuff to eat [physically] but I take it spiritually as in that which I eat to feed my mind. I notice at once that God did the feeding of the manna. Man did not have one thing to do with the creation of the manna only the gathering of the so called "food".

Therefore in meditation I fall silent in sacrifice of my ten percent and the manna of understanding and knowledge is provided by God. Therefore my head is anointed and my mind is satiated. I look down at my two hands and I perceive the hands of God.

The two become one and submit to Christ; and Christ submits to Father. Therefore I and the Father are One.

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


PLEASE don't read over verse 5 with haste. That is a Command! We are commanded to think as Jesus thought! And Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God!

Let this mind be IN YOU. Let this mind be IN YOU. The Kingdom of God is IN YOU.

1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

UNLEAVENED BREAD - is that which has not been tampered with one bit by the minds or hands of man! Religion be damned! I love my brethren I hate the Religions [control systems] bent on taking unmercifully from those who would buy something each week only to have it delivered at their death! Great system! I got a few things to sell myself. I'll make you a great deal, you pay me now and I will deliver the good now. Sounds fair to me.

Tonight I teach the young and the old about the Pharaoh that rules in their carnal mind. He is also known as Herod. Allegorically the same! Hopefully there will be no religious non-sense else I might hear ribbit, ribbit in my ears. We shall be about the work of releasing the prisoners from their house of bondage.

High is The Way. Let us keep it in Spirit and Truth! As we are commanded. Amen.

Jesus taught us to pray "OUR Father". Of that he included Himself! Amen.

Joh_5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

If the Son [Jesus] could see the Father, then the son [me and you] can too! I trust Jesus' teachings with my life. Enjoy the Seder.

Psa 100:3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

I am the sheep of His Pasture, but I can choose to rule in this house under my will - in the carnal mind. Cut off the head of Medusa and let the White Horse come! Amen.

Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Abel the righteous was a shepherd of the thoughts [sheep] of God.

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your MIND.


H3824
le?ba?b

BDB Definition:
1) inner man, mind,


JER 17:8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

EZE 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and,behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

Gen_2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

2nd Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


If you can bear with me in my folly consider that even if you hold to the literal crucifixion, it can also be rendered a parable. For the crucifixion happened in the place of the Skull [Cranium = Calvary]. And we know the literal interpretations according to the "Letter" leads to death - at least that is what the Bible says. So we seek the Spiritual place of the Crucifixion.

I can't make such a claim without the authority granted in the Bible so see the following:

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The city is consciousness. Dead bodies are carnal thoughts sacrificed and put to death. Sodom is the place of burning - the torment of this life walking without the guidance and companionship of the Holy Spirit and Christ. Sodom is the place of the carnal mind. Egypt is the physical plane. The place where the religious proclaim with one loud voice - give us Bar-abbas - the Son of our father's traditions - we want our religion! We do not want Christ.

Selah.


Shalom Brethren,
MJ

Michael Joseph
04-03-15, 09:52 PM
Consider again how difficult it is to ride two donkeys into a city with screaming folks. Jesus must have toured with the circus because that is quite a feat. Until one realizes it is a PARABLE. And the religious absent knowledge and with one voice scream out "Save Now - Save Now".

Saying we can't wait for the day of the Lord. Give us our father's religion. A societal womb!

Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

There were ten virgins five of them did not have ENOUGH oil. Selah.

Shalom Brethren,
MJ

BLBereans
04-04-15, 01:22 AM
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


PLEASE don't read over verse 5 with haste. That is a Command! We are commanded to think as Jesus thought! And Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God!

Let this mind be IN YOU. Let this mind be IN YOU. The Kingdom of God is IN YOU.

Perhaps a different interpretation rings truer:

Prior to verse 5, we are given the attributes of the mind of Jesus that we should emulate as commanded in verse 5...

1 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, 2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. 3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Verse 6, can perhaps mean the following...

Thought it not robbery to be equal with God (???? ?????????? ????????? ??? ??????? ????? ?????)


Robbery is explained in three ways. 1. A robbing, the Acts 2. The thing robbed, a piece of plunder. 3. A prize, a thing to be grasped. Here in the last sense.

Paul does not then say, as A.V., that Christ did not think it robbery to be equal with God: for, 1, that fact goes without. saying in the previous expression, being in the form of God. 2. On this explanation the statement is very awkward. Christ, being in the form of God, did not think it robbery to be equal with God; but, after which we should naturally expect, on the other hand, claimed and asserted equality: whereas the statement is: Christ was in the form of God and did not think it robbery to be equal with God, but (instead) emptied Himself. Christ held fast His assertion of divine dignity, but relinquished it. The antithesis is thus entirely destroyed.

Taking the word ?????????? (A.V., robbery) to mean a highly prized possession, we understand Paul to say that Christ, being, before His incarnation, in the form of God, did not regard His divine equality as a prize which was to be grasped at and retained at all hazards, but, on the contrary, laid aside the form of God, and took upon Himself the nature of man. The emphasis in the passage is upon Christ's humiliation. The fact of His equality with God is stated as a background, in order to throw the circumstances of His incarnation into stronger relief. Hence the peculiar form of Paul's statement Christ's great object was to identify Himself with humanity; not to appear to men as divine but as human. Had He come into the world emphasizing His equality with God, the world would have been amazed, but not saved; He did not grasp at this. Rather He counted humanity His prize, and so laid aside the conditions of His preexistent state, and became man.

source (http://biblehub.com/commentaries/philippians/2-6.htm)

Which seems to coincide well with verses 7-8...

7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Context.

allodial
04-04-15, 04:21 AM
Context is very much important. The Epistle to the Philippians was a letter to believers (not to non-believers) who had all likely been baptized, believed on Jesus Christ ... likely had hands (of the presbytery) laid on them or had the support and direction of the Holy Spirit, even had an anointing (AFAIK all kingly or priestly power in the OT was vis-a-vis an anointing).

Re: two donkeys. The impression I got is that he sat on the clothes (clothes = them).

BLBereans
04-04-15, 02:33 PM
Context is very much important. The Epistle to the Philippians was a letter to believers (not to non-believers) who had all likely been baptized, believed on Jesus Christ ... likely had hands (of the presbytery) laid on them or had the support and direction of the Holy Spirit, even had an anointing (AFAIK all kingly or priestly power in the OT was vis-a-vis an anointing).

Re: two donkeys. The impression I got is that he sat on the clothes (clothes = them).

That would seem reasonable and logical wouldn't it? I believe it was common practice in ancient near east culture to place garments upon animals as a saddle for someone to sit upon.

They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and he sat on them.

Many garments placed on both animals not knowing which animal He wished to ride upon; they accommodated him by either choice.

The denial of Jesus' uniqueness (fully man AND fully God) is essential to all false beliefs, ergo, the necessity to allegorize EVERYTHING in scripture.

The motive is always to deny the special and true nature of our Lord and Savior Jesus The Christ.

People see what they want to see; the "You will be as God" deception has been the most prominent tool of the adversary since the garden incident. All rebelliousness against our preexistent Father in Heaven began with that lie.

doug555
04-04-15, 03:46 PM
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/introduction/the-rise-of-allegorical-interpretation.html (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/introduction/the-rise-of-allegorical-interpretation.html) (emphasis added)


Concerning the inconsistency of the allegorical method and the damage which results, Seiss notes:

Good and able men have satisfied themselves with it; but, on the same principles of interpretation, there is not a chapter in the Bible, nor a doctrine of our holy religion, which could not be totally explained away. By a happy inconsistency do they not so treat other portions of Scripture, or they would transmute the whole Revelation of God into uncertainty and emptiness.22

Having examined a long list of these symbolic and allegorical interpretations, and followed the processes by which their authors have tried to apply them, I have not found one which does not completely break down under the weight of its own cumbrous unfittingness. They each and all fail to explain the facts and relations of the record, and treat John as a half-demented sentimental old man, trying to make a grand poem out of a few dim anticipations touching the earthly fortunes of the Church, which could have been better told in one well-written chapter. They are, at best, the wild guesses of men who have never got hold of the real thread of the matter, whilst under the necessity of saying something.23


How many are aware of the literal and physical aspect of the 7 Days of Unleavened Bread?

How many have literally removed all physical leaven from their houses for 7 days this year (April 3-9, 2015)?

1 Cor 5:7 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/5-7.html)

7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

These saints literally were in fact unleavened physically, as this physical requirement teaches and reinforces a very spiritual principle, as Paul also explains.

Jn 7:17 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/john/7-17.html)

"17 "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself."

Literal doing leads to true knowing.

Ex 12:15 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/exodus/12-15.html)

15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

The early saints knew they, likewise, that they would be cut off from the Church, spiritual Israel, if they had or ate leaven those 7 days.

We have lost that knowledge today, even as we have forsaken the literal aspect of doing (obeying) the Scriptures.

Those who are not literally and physically unleavened these 7 days are cut off from the true church and true knowledge.

1 Jn 2:4 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/1-john/2-4.html)

4 He that saith , I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Michael Joseph
04-04-15, 05:54 PM
Those who are not literally and physically unleavened these 7 days are cut off from the true church and true knowledge.

1 Jn 2:4 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/1-john/2-4.html)

Consider the example of a religious one who empties the house of leaven food products and keeps the Passover according to traditions to the "letter of the law" but then after discharging his duties, he gets up the next morning only to turn on Fox News and let the poison flood into his mind. To what good is the removal of the leaven? We will not empty the physical house of leaven just to let Sin pour in by the wheelbarrow thru the TV, IPAD, IPOD or other media. For the truth is that we are to discipline ourselves to actively be upon the removal of the leaven "sin" from our lives. Yet we find that St. Paul tells us that "the Law is Spiritual". And further we find that the carnal nature is enmity against God and is not subject to the law.

Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Now therefore, let the Higher Mind [Moses] in you receive your orders from the Lord and may the Moses within you bring the Pharaoh [lower mind] into subjection. And may you cross thru the Sea of Emotion and Limitation so that you might enter into the Promised Land TO DAY.

Exo 12:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,

The LORD did not speak unto the nation of Israel because then the Parable would not make any sense. The LORD must speak to Moses because Moses is your Higher Mind in Consciousness! The LORD will not speak to the "men of Sodom" - The LORD speaks to Abraham/Moses which is the Higher Mind upon the Mountain of Consciousness [Mount Zion].

Egypt of course is the physical plane. Sodom is the mental plane of base consciousness - a burning.

The angels are "ministering spirits" which bring the truth of God to the Higher Mind. What I eat with my mouth cannot defile me - Jesus said so. I believe Jesus and I don't believe religion. What defiles me is what comes out of my mouth which FIRST developed in my mind! Therefore the unleavened bread I eat is the "bread of God" which is for my MIND. And my mind rules my body. Nevertheless what I eat with my mouth can make my body sick. And to say it is my body is not correct - it is mine to USE. Therefore since I am living in another man's house - I should not abuse that which is not mine. Even my children understand that one - there will be no jumping on the couch! ;)

Therefore Jesus also said "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" - which is unleavened bread. Or, if you will, the waters from the pool of Siloam.

Joh_9:7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

Mat_15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the MIND; and they defile the man.
HE CAME SEEING - with Understanding!

Therefore we eat the unleavened bread of Spiritual Truth - and we drink the Wine of Spiritual Understanding! Seeing as how "flesh and blood" does not enter the Kingdom of God, we are unconcerned with the manner in which literalists interpret the Scripture according to their traditions - the truth is this:

The truths of God are symbolized in many types - sheep, water, bread [Abel was a shepherd of God's Sheep = Thoughts]
The understanding of the truths of God - Wine

Mar_7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Mar_7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mar_7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Jesus is so blunt - I love it - he speaks of course to those who lack understanding who are intent upon the traditions of the church by eating and drinking and observing days, months, years, etc absent knowledge and understanding.

Therefore let the bread and the wine come forth from Melchizedok [WITHIN] and let their be peace. Flesh and blood did not reveal this to you Peter. So eat all the bread you want, eat the lamb, drink the wine - these are all fleshly and are merely tools for the school teacher. To observe these by "the letter" is death.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.



Last night in my house we celebrated the Seder. We took the symbols of the bread and the wine [grape juice] and we placed them before our children and nephews/nieces and explained what it means to eat standing up with loins girded with shoes on our feet. They are no longer in bondage to the symbol but they now understand what the symbols mean - they are only SCHOOL TEACHERS - yet so many remain in bondage under that yoke. They now understand the part of them which is Moses and that which is Pharaoh. Amen.

We eat standing, ready to run, with shoes on our feet because when the thoughts of God come in revelation we are SAVED and we act on those immediately in trust. Therefore we are in a PROCESS OF SALVATION - a disciplined race that must be run to its completion. We are being re-generated or re-created from a terrestrial man into a Celestial Man - a 7th Day creation - a New Being - a God Being. And God dwells in the Temple of my Mind and yours too! And there is no respect unto persons.

The symbol of man's thoughts are shown as : spotted cattle, golden calf, tilling the ground, nations, valley, desert, wilderness, men of Sodom. These must be sacrificed - not God's precious animals or the money that lines our pocket. [Cain was a farmer of God's thoughts as defined and limited by his reasonings which is to say HIS RELIGION]

Therefore the Passover happens EVERYDAY as we stay attuned to The Way of God - we pass over from death to life. Find time EVERY day to sit in total silence to "be still and know that I AM God". Take every thought captive. And knock on the door in hopes of receiving three loaves of UNLEAVENED BREAD.

Luk 11:5 And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;

Luk 11:6 For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him?

Luk 11:7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.

Luk 11:8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.

Luk 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.


importunity means persistence in shamelessness. Keep knocking on God's door.

God's Re-Creation of the New Day (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rifby1tVE8). See if you can hear Cat Stevens - the Sweet new rainfall is like the dew that first fell - undefiled by man - touched only by Heaven. Praise with elation - Noah is drunk on the New Wine.

Remember friend, I can eat unleavened bread without putting physical bread in my mouth and be in the Sincere keeping of His Commandments. This of course will offend the religious. So be it. Therefore, I teach my sons [new thoughts] and my daughters [realized new desires] disciplining them to be in accord with His Great and Wonderful Way. Therefore the Kingdom FIRST is realized Within me and it results in an outward expression - a walking example. A married Land results which is no longer divided [Cain v. Abel or Herod v. John or Moses v Pharaoh].

Speaking of keeping commandments according to the religious Jesus was chief in breaking the commandments. But that was only because they keep them literally and not according to knowledge and understanding - in sincerity and in truth.

Today is the beginning of the New Spiritual Year! Once again Spring has come - the Sun has devoured Aries and the GREEN leaves are returning to the outstretched arms of the trees.

It is time to cut off Medusa's head so that those serpents which blind a man in religious ignorance [traditions] might be put to death and the white horse of Understanding and Truth might come. The conquering horse has run his race, the red horse has fought his battles and the spotted horse of confusion has come and the pale horse of death has been conquered as we lay down our vanity upon the alter in the TRUE sacrifice, the true Tithe of the ten percent that God requires we MUST do. We sacrifice our carnal mind upon the alter; and, the bulls, the goats and the turtle doves which is to say our precious "own" is as dung in our eyes - a worthless waste heap of nothingness. It is then that Isaac is spared and in return we receive the 7-spirits of God. And we PASS OVER from Ai [wasteheap] to Bethel [House of God].

continued....

Michael Joseph
04-04-15, 06:53 PM
continuing...

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the reverence of the LORD;

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Consider the parabolic meaning which is life. Else you are left with a hero and little knowledge concerning yourself! The term Jesse means "I possess". Jesus said "I AM the vine and YE are the Branches".

I cannot stand at the top of the mountain and look down. I am climbing the mountain just like all of us. So please do not place your full trust in my words. I am your fellow servant working in the field - sharing the wealth as it were. Know yourself and trust God - which is to say I AM.


Shalom Brethren,
MJ

Christopher David
04-05-15, 03:28 AM
Thank you MJ. Your work has not gone unnoticed.

xparte
04-05-15, 03:28 AM
MJ very interesting Christ and commandments historical spoken you have freewill dont you and truth has been written internally hasn't it building a palace so you can sin in the barn is dragging around a historical accounting of tress-pass the account is within you and me as I have no problem pointing out a golden calf is money worship with Commandments situational mischief or occasioned ethics. They have every symptom of having been man-made and improvised under pressure. They are addressed to a nomadic tribe whose main economy is primitive agriculture and whose wealth is sometimes counted in people as well as animals. So again the bible cant seduce the truth no more than history can prevent it or can it. I am the lord thy God.… Thou shalt have no other gods before me. This use of capitalization and upper- and lowercase carries the intriguing implication that there perhaps are some other gods but not equally deserving of respect or awe the bible has the potential to ignore CHRIST & yet incite Christ who shall be appearing for that account Is there a Christ u would like to present or can a bible defeat the king?

Onlashuk
04-05-15, 07:22 AM
I grew up attending a religious organization that put an emphasis on the physical aspect of duties, obligations and responsibilities. And, right on along with the demand and pressure to comply with said things was the kicker that if you did not comply, well, to put it plainly, using the words that religious organization used to use, “You will end up in the lake of fire.” That group never actually said hell, but that is what was implied. Make no mistake about this, that is the same manipulating message that all religious organizations use. This specific religious organization just packaged a little bit differently. Like a good minion I did what I was told and I played the same mind games of making myself look better than I actually was for the sake of the outward appearance. Such actions are worthless and only end up stealing from me the knowledge of knowing who I truly am, and what living this Life is really supposed to be about. The Feast Days of the Lord being with the Passover and then goes right into the Days of Unleavened Bread, which pictures the permanent removal of SIN from ones life. In that religious organization we used kept all of feast days listed in Leviticus 23. However, in relation to the spiritual purpose for the Days of Unleavened Bread, I must admit that I never quite understood how the physical act of the removal of leavened products, such as breads and cakes actually cleansed the inside of me. The truth is… it never did; and, it never could, for nothing physical can be profitable spiritually. But, through the tradition of religion and family men make it appear to be so even if it is only done in the fantasy of their carnal minds.

Nevertheless, I know personally what the ritual is all about and how empty it actually is, for it does nothing to benefit the soul as the duties and rituals performed are only for the outward appearance of looking good to others. I think that this experience would have been unnecessary if one thing was clearly known and understood correctly. That knowledge and understanding would be the difference between a literal dead-letter interpretation of the Holy Bible, verses a spiritual Life-giving understanding, which can only be revealed by the Holy Spirit herself. Now then, using this as the foundation to discover the true meaning of what the Days of Unleavened Bread actually do mean, which is the eradication of SIN from one’s Life, this discovery will forever change what one knows, or thought they knew about what SIN actually is. From this correct understanding of the true intent of the scriptures, the entire issue on SIN changes irrevocable from the message and doctrines that are preached by todays modern religious organizations. Mark My Words, once this knowledge is recognized and understood correctly no religious organization will ever be able to use SIN as a weapon of mass spiritual destruct in any form against you ever again. I am going to share with you exactly what my understanding of what SIN actually is, but first I will lay a bit of a foundation so that you can see where it is that I am coming from. Then I will share what has been revealed to me. But, be forewarned, if you are well adept to the legalistic dead-letter of the Word of God, what I have to say about the issue of SIN will not sit well with you as it goes against everything that is taught and preached in every religious organization that teaches and preaches from a legalistic dead-letter interpretation. So please be mindful and remember, ultimately your argument is not with me, but with the Creator and Father El Elyon Himself.

Now, speaking only for me, from and with the gifts of the understandings that the Holy Spirit has taught me, I perceive way to much emphasis on a literal interpretation of the words in the Holy Bible. I see this as being the main infection of dis-ease infecting all religious organizations of to-day. It is from this standpoint that I will share my thoughts on the difference between a literal understanding of what SIN is, and a spiritual one, which will completely reveal that a literalistic perspective and perception of the Word of God does indeed lead one to death. “There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.” (Proverbs 14:12 & 16:25) So then, my heart is to always be focused on THE WAY, and not my way, because, “…if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.” (1 Cor 8:2)

Now, let us look at SIN and what it is according to the Word of God, NOT according to a literal interpretation. For the traditions of men through religion has dictated that SIN is the breaking of the 10-commandments, or the 2-greatest commands, or the 613 laws, statutes and ordinances of the Old Covenant. Usually, this stance will always be backed up with 1 John 3:4, “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is transgression of the law.” From this posture, one can justifiably let the punishment begin and have the moral high ground to take that stand, and to execute it accordingly on all matters, correct? I would only give a soft reminder for those of such a mindset to be aware of the judgment that one is NOT to judge with, and then let it go at that, for each must chose to be a, “Follower of The Way,” or to go about matters by THEIR OWN WAY. But, what if this understanding of SIN is not only short of the true understanding of what SIN is in the context of the SPIRIT OF THE LETTER, but is also an incorrect understanding because it is founded in a literal dead letter interpretation? How in the heck can I make such an outlandish claim as this? Well, keep reading and you will see exactly why I am saying what I am saying. First, let us take a look a few scriptures and let them do the talking by and through the power of the Holy Spirit as our teacher leading us into all wisdom and truth.

• John 4:23-24, “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

• 2 Corinthians 3:6, “Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

• John 6:63, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.”

What this is clearly pointing out is the fact that the carnal mind receives its sustenance from the flesh through its 5 senses. This is why the flesh profits nothing. For those 5 senses are the 5 husbands that Yehoshuah spoke of to the woman (Emotions) at the well and she had no True Husband. In other words, Christ was not the Head of her Life. You see, if you read that literally in the dead-letter you will miss this golden nugget of truth. This is why the carnal mind is purposefully blinded to all things spiritual as it dwells in darkness (Ignorance and Fear through its own pride and arrogance) and is completely bereft of any Light (Wisdom Proverbs 4:7, which comes from true knowledge, Proverbs 18:15 and understanding Proverbs 16:16), which is the Spirit of the Word enabling one to be blessed with the proper and correct meaning unto Life Eternal.

(CONTINUED IN PART 2 POST OF 5)

Michael Joseph
04-05-15, 12:47 PM
MJ very interesting Christ and commandments historical spoken you have freewill dont you and truth has been written internally hasn't it building a palace so you can sin in the barn is dragging around a historical accounting of tress-pass the account is within you and me as I have no problem pointing out a golden calf is money worship with Commandments situational mischief or occasioned ethics. They have every symptom of having been man-made and improvised under pressure. They are addressed to a nomadic tribe whose main economy is primitive agriculture and whose wealth is sometimes counted in people as well as animals. So again the bible cant seduce the truth no more than history can prevent it or can it. I am the lord thy God.… Thou shalt have no other gods before me. This use of capitalization and upper- and lowercase carries the intriguing implication that there perhaps are some other gods but not equally deserving of respect or awe the bible has the potential to ignore CHRIST & yet incite Christ who shall be appearing for that account Is there a Christ u would like to present or can a bible defeat the king?

the use of the name Christ Jesus vs Jesus Christ is not a fluke in scripture. There is a very specific reason why the Holy Spirit thru the latter day writers do these things. I have attached a study from the Book of Philemon. It should lend some insight into the wisdom of the two names.

2486

I wrote this study about a year or so ago, maybe longer. I wrote it from the macro perspective, but if you truly do understand then you will notice at once that Paul is the Higher Mind which sends messengers [thoughts] to the lower mind [Philemon] and it is the Holy Spirit which gives Sight to the eyes of Paul. As Saul [fleshly and carnal] he was completely blind - yet according to the world's standard Saul was a scholars scholar! Saul sat under Gamaliel.

That which is in the Ark are the thoughts - the Ark is the Tent is the Higher Mind! Paul therefore would be a "tent maker". Stretching the tent cords of the mind. Enjoy the study, it needs to be updated but it gets the job done in regard to the difference in terminology.

If you want an old school example.... Moses spake to the men of Israel. That is saying exactly the same thing. The Lord spoke to Moses and Moses speaks to the men of Israel.

Shalom,
MJ

Michael Joseph
04-05-15, 01:20 PM
I grew up attending a religious organization that put an emphasis on the physical aspect of duties, obligations and responsibilities. And, right on along with the demand and pressure to comply with said things was the kicker that if you did not comply, well, to put it plainly, using the words that religious organization used to use, “You will end up in the lake of fire.” That group never actually said hell, but that is what was implied. Make no mistake about this, that is the same manipulating message that all religious organizations use. This specific religious organization just packaged a little bit differently. Like a good minion I did what I was told and I played the same mind games of making myself look better than I actually was for the sake of the outward appearance. Such actions are worthless and only end up stealing from me the knowledge of knowing who I truly am, and what living this Life is really supposed to be about. The Feast Days of the Lord being with the Passover and then goes right into the Days of Unleavened Bread, which pictures the permanent removal of SIN from ones life. In that religious organization we used kept all of feast days listed in Leviticus 23. However, in relation to the spiritual purpose for the Days of Unleavened Bread, I must admit that I never quite understood how the physical act of the removal of leavened products, such as breads and cakes actually cleansed the inside of me. The truth is… it never did; and, it never could, for nothing physical can be profitable spiritually. But, through the tradition of religion and family men make it appear to be so even if it is only done in the fantasy of their carnal minds.
Nevertheless, I know personally what the ritual is all about and how empty it actually is, for it does nothing to benefit the soul as the duties and rituals performed are only for the outward appearance of looking good to others. I think that this experience would have been unnecessary if one thing was clearly known and understood correctly. That knowledge and understanding would be the difference between a literal dead-letter interpretation of the Holy Bible, verses a spiritual Life-giving understanding, which can only be revealed by the Holy Spirit herself. Now then, using this as the foundation to discover the true meaning of what the Days of Unleavened Bread actually do mean, which is the eradication of SIN from one’s Life, this discovery will forever change what one knows, or thought they knew about what SIN actually is. From this correct understanding of the true intent of the scriptures, the entire issue on SIN changes irrevocable from the message and doctrines that are preached by todays modern religious organizations. Mark My Words, once this knowledge is recognized and understood correctly no religious organization will ever be able to use SIN as a weapon of mass spiritual destruct in any form against you ever again. I am going to share with you exactly what my understanding of what SIN actually is, but first I will lay a bit of a foundation so that you can see where it is that I am coming from. Then I will share what has been revealed to me. But, be forewarned, if you are well adept to the legalistic dead-letter of the Word of God, what I have to say about the issue of SIN will not sit well with you as it goes against everything that is taught and preached in every religious organization that teaches and preaches from a legalistic dead-letter interpretation. So please be mindful and remember, ultimately your argument is not with me, but with the Creator and Father El Elyon Himself.
Now, speaking only for me, from and with the gifts of the understandings that the Holy Spirit has taught me, I perceive way to much emphasis on a literal interpretation of the words in the Holy Bible. I see this as being the main infection of dis-ease infecting all religious organizations of to-day. It is from this standpoint that I will share my thoughts on the difference between a literal understanding of what SIN is, and a spiritual one, which will completely reveal that a literalistic perspective and perception of the Word of God does indeed lead one to death. “There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.” (Proverbs 14:12 & 16:25) So then, my heart is to always be focused on THE WAY, and not my way, because, “…if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.” (1 Cor 8:2)
Now, let us look at SIN and what it is according to the Word of God, NOT according to a literal interpretation. For the traditions of men through religion has dictated that SIN is the breaking of the 10-commandments, or the 2-greatest commands, or the 613 laws, statutes and ordinances of the Old Covenant. Usually, this stance will always be backed up with 1 John 3:4, “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is transgression of the law.” From this posture, one can justifiably let the punishment begin and have the moral high ground to take that stand, and to execute it accordingly on all matters, correct? I would only give a soft reminder for those of such a mindset to be aware of the judgment that one is NOT to judge with, and then let it go at that, for each must chose to be a, “Follower of The Way,” or to go about matters by THEIR OWN WAY. But, what if this understanding of SIN is not only short of the true understanding of what SIN is in the context of the SPIRIT OF THE LETTER, but is also an incorrect understanding because it is founded in a literal dead letter interpretation? How in the heck can I make such an outlandish claim as this? Well, keep reading and you will see exactly why I am saying what I am saying. First, let us take a look a few scriptures and let them do the talking by and through the power of the Holy Spirit as our teacher leading us into all wisdom and truth.

• John 4:23-24, “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

• 2 Corinthians 3:6, “Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

• John 6:63, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.”

What this is clearly pointing out is the fact that the carnal mind receives its sustenance from the flesh through its 5 senses. This is why the flesh profits nothing. For those 5 senses are the 5 husbands that Yehoshuah spoke of to the woman (Emotions) at the well and she had no True Husband. In other words, Christ was not the Head of her Life. You see, if you read that literally in the dead-letter you will miss this golden nugget of truth. This is why the carnal mind is purposefully blinded to all things spiritual as it dwells in darkness (Ignorance and Fear through its own pride and arrogance) and is completely bereft of any Light (Wisdom Proverbs 4:7, which comes from true knowledge, Proverbs 18:15 and understanding Proverbs 16:16), which is the Spirit of the Word enabling one to be blessed with the proper and correct meaning unto Life Eternal.

(CONTINUED IN PART 2 POST OF 5)


Thank you Onlashuk you are right on. Subdue the earth and all that is in it. Now we understand that is base consciousness. The Higher Mind is to have dominion over the lower base. Look in the mirror! The feet are low and the head is high. Feet therefore is base consciousness -

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

head . . . heel. No more literal than 1Co_11:8, or Psa_41:9, and Joh_13:18. They denote the temporary sufferings of the Seed, and the complete destruction of Satan [carnal mind] and his/its works (Heb_2:14. 1Jn_3:8). Heel = lower part. Head = vital part.

Shalom,
MJ

allodial
04-05-15, 03:20 PM
That would seem reasonable and logical wouldn't it? I believe it was common practice in ancient near east culture to place garments upon animals as a saddle for someone to sit upon.

They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and he sat on them.

Many garments placed on both animals not knowing which animal He wished to ride upon; they accommodated him by either choice.

Even to this day people put clothes/garments/saddles upon animals and sit on them.


The denial of Jesus' uniqueness (fully man AND fully God) is essential to all false beliefs, ergo, the necessity to allegorize EVERYTHING in scripture.

The motive is always to deny the special and true nature of our Lord and Savior Jesus The Christ.

They know who He is but he spells endgame to a large-scale deception. Their denial of mankind being made in the image of God is part of it too. Of course, if one were selling membership in an organization as a way to access "godhood", one might regard Jesus Christ and God to be competition especially if he's giving things away for free.


People see what they want to see; the "You will be as God" deception has been the most prominent tool of the adversary since the garden incident. All rebelliousness against our preexistent Father in Heaven began with that lie.

The Bible and the historical records appears to be telling a story about men who believed themselves to be "God" and who without seeking help or tutelage of God have caused great and terrible harm throughout history while justifying themselves and their untoward deeds on the account of believing themselves to be "God" accountable to no one.

It seems that what the Adversary wanted was to wield men as tools against God rather than have those men receive tutelage and wisdom from God and be out the Adversary's reach. Even still, wisdom would have it that if someone has a "God nature" that he would seek wisdom and tutelage from God rather than from his adversaries.

The paradigm of Nimrod and his followers having made a practice of kidnapping to build societies seems to have been going on in the World for a long time, even in the USA. To this day, ISIS appears to be doing that very thing. Muslim raiders were kidnapping women and children even as far back in the 1700s and 1800s and further. In the USA, since the 1860s the attempt has been in impressing forced citizenship upon living souls (psychic kidnapping). The patterns are too easy to miss and the Bible helps solve the riddle.

doug555
04-05-15, 04:36 PM
Matthew 5:17-19 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/passage/?q=matthew+5:17-19)

17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The issue of "gnosis" vs "obedience/trust" began in Eden.

It will be settled by the literal fulfillment of Holyday 2, which. in turn, will prove the literal historical fulfillment of Holyday 1 by a historical Jesus.

We will not need to rely on secular historical records, especially since the Word is the foundation of all truth.

allodial
04-05-15, 04:43 PM
Its might be worth noting that when he said that, the Temple at Jerusalem was still standing and would be for 30 or so years until 70 AD. As for "the Law":


And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. --Mark 12:30-31- (KJV)

Michael Joseph
04-05-15, 05:33 PM
The issue of "gnosis" vs "obedience/trust" began in Eden.

It seems to me that quite a bit of folks are somehow adverse to gnosis as if it is scary or taboo. Gnosis is knowledge. If one can't appreciate gnosis, can one appreciate St. Paul?

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Those who would be religionists seek to establish their own righteousness. The tithe of the ten percent is a deed of total sacrifice to place one's entire life in trust with Jesus Christ trusting in the words of Christ Jesus. The carnal mind and all of its religious ideas are all "spotted cattle" which must be sacrificed.

For the flesh profits nothing. but who can hear such a hard statement? I wonder if we can't trust St. Paul, can we trust Christ Jesus?

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

now can you understand the Parable? For Jesus NEVER opened his mouth except that he spoke in a Parable! How can I say that:

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:


I trust Christ Jesus. But this is just me. If one wants to keep days, months, years eat certain foods, etc well go ahead but it profits nothing in regard to the Spirit. Keeping those religious traditions and rites are death. But I let the Reader consider as it must be.

This "wait and see" religion is in my opinion bull dung! Jesus never said "wait and see". He told Martha the truth but in her religious zeal she could not hear.

Joh 11:20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.

Joh 11:21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

Joh 11:22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.


Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

But unfortunately she could not believe she was waiting for some future event. Many in religion today are the walking dead - they have yet to come alive in the Spirit.

Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Joh 11:28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.


Nevertheless Jesus proclaimed in his gospel that the Kingdom of God was at hand! and yet, few can hear him - they are waiting for some future event. The carnal mind of desire [getting their salvation] blinds them to the reality that the Kingdom is available this day.

For the Holy Spirit said To Day if you can hear his voice!

Psa_95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,

Heb_3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Heb_3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Heb_4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

IF David lived, he lived a long time before this this time! And he sayeth to DAVID To Day. I wonder if David wondered after some future event. Seems not.

Many harden their minds looking to some future event - waiting for another day - Reference Kadesh-Barnea

Deu 1:2 (There are eleven days' journey from Horeb by the way of mount Seir unto Kadeshbarnea.)

Deu 1:3 And it came to pass in the fortieth year, in the eleventh month, on the first day of the month, that Moses spake unto the children of Israel, according unto all that the LORD had given him in commandment unto them;

Deu_1:35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,

The "men of Israel" would not listen to the Higher Mind [Moses] therefore they wondered in Probation [40 years] in the wilderness of confusion when if they would just listen it would have just taken 11 days. 11 is the number of Joseph - Balance - an anointing of the "coat of many colors" - the 7 Spirits of God. But they doubted how could their religion be wrong? So they waited and all died in the wilderness. Consider carefully what that is saying to each of you. Enter in TO DAY if you hear His voice.

Psa 95:8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Psa 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.

Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

Psa 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Those who can't accept the Kingdom is at hand THIS DAY - cannot enter into the Spiritual Sabbath - the 7th Day Celestial Man - Noah sitting in the tent drunk on the New Wine.

You can imagine your alcohol if you want but it is only your carnal mind drunk on the bitter waters of confusion. For She said To Day - THIS DAY - IF you can hear His voice.

Joh 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

Have you requested the New Wine from your Mother - the Holy Spirit?

Joh 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

Now consider religion and their false understandings in their religion. The Word does not leave any wanting who can hear.

Joh 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,

This is NOT the True Passover - this is religious rites and traditions! Absent any GNOSIS of the Spirit. Do not trust this man or any other man. Trust God. Amen.

May you enter in This Day and may YOUR Land no longer be Forsaken - may it be Married.

Isa_62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.


That you might Passover from the wilderness of confusion into the Promised Land!

I cannot stand at the top of the mountain and look down. I am climbing the mountain just like all of us. So please do not place your full trust in my words. I am your fellow servant working in the field - sharing the wealth as it were. Know yourself and trust God - which is to say I AM.





Shalom,
Michael Joseph

allodial
04-05-15, 06:28 PM
I suspect most don't have any problem with knowledge that is true and profitable and worthy of knowing. It is "Gnosis" in the sense of heresies and baiting unto error that is the stuff of what many seem to dislike about "religion" which isn't in the Bible to begin with. Salvation is through faith/believing. However it is also written that: "Faith without works is dead". Much if not all of the burdensome doctrines or ideologies that came to be associated with the Bible or "Christianity" seem to have come from the "Gnostics".

Divine knowledge and wisdom continues to be available to and helpful the believer of course. Knowledge isn't the problem. But not all "knowledge" is profitable. Not all doctrines are sound.

The primary type of Gnostics being referred to are the types that felt that people had to be part of a secret clique in order to "approach the Divine" or had to join a secret society in order to have "true knowledge". The Nicolaitans were said to be of the Gnostics.

Michael Joseph
04-05-15, 07:05 PM
I suspect most don't have any problem with knowledge that is true and profitable and worthy of knowing. It is "Gnosis" in the sense of heresies and baiting unto error that is the stuff of what many seem to dislike about "religion" which isn't in the Bible to begin with. Salvation is through faith/believing. However it is also written that: "Faith without works is dead". Much if not all of the burdensome doctrines or ideologies that came to be associated with the Bible or "Christianity" seem to have come from the "Gnostics".

Divine knowledge and wisdom continues to be available to and helpful the believer of course. Knowledge isn't the problem. But not all "knowledge" is profitable. Not all doctrines are sound.

The primary type of Gnostics being referred to are the types that felt that people had to be part of a secret clique in order to "approach the Divine" or had to join a secret society in order to have "true knowledge". The Nicolaitans were said to be of the Gnostics.

God is not a respecter of persons.


But stop and think, look around. Do you suppose you can just walk into the White House absent an appointment to see President Obama? A king has protocols that must be observed. And those protocols are according to Knowledge.

If one thinks to jump the fence and run across the lawn, that one will most likely get "dropped" in the first ten steps! He will certainly be turned around and told to leave.

Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.


Yet for some ridiculous reason folks seem to think they can approach The King of kings in any manor they want to. This is not true and one who has not been taught by the School Teacher just does not understand.

If the High Priest came into the Holy of Holies unclean he died.

As for my part when I realized that I had never understood the Bible and can never understand it unless the Holy Spirit guides me into truth, then I was able to place all that I thought I had learned aside. Gnosticism seems like it is a dirty word. When I am called a Gnostic, I just laugh. Because the one thinking he is putting me down is actually calling me a Knowledgeable One.

An enlightened knower of the application of wisdom. I would say perhaps one in a million who throw around labels actually understands that which is propounded in said label. I might say the same thing concerning Christians. But we are at once transported into a higher status than those we look down upon.

Take the strongest expletive and place it in front of the label. That's what I think of that. Labels are that which ignorance chooses to place that which it doesn't understand in a box neatly tucked away so that it can never be observed and understood. The other day I was caught reading The Secret Doctrine. One who was "higher and more lofty" than I proclaimed "O Brother, you don't want to read that....blah, blah, blah" - it was then I heard those frogs.....ribbit, ribbit....frogs everywhere.

Why are people so afraid? For how can I know what I am if I don't know what I am not?

Salvation - now that is a funny label. From what exactly is one saved? I have yet to receive any answer that does not include some form of selfish getting. I can't find where Christ Jesus the man ever spoke regarding his own personal salvation. But then again let the religious yell OUCH...who cares! Jesus was just like me - if he wasn't a flesh and blood man just like me showing me how to come to relationship with our Father, then none of this makes any sense and is just another fable fabricated by some men bent on dominating other men.

I have picked up those rocks which scare so many. I have looked under them and I have yet to find a demon or evil spirit. Or any other such things that go Boo! What I discovered was my own pitiful ignorance.


Shalom,
MJ

allodial
04-05-15, 07:20 PM
You speak about respect of persons in one way then in a different way in the same context. You also speak of the priesthood system that was in place due to special circumstances some might not comprehend and which has been replaced. The plan has been one of restoration not one for creating Mystery School franchises.

Its clear as to the context re: 'salvation'. If you weren't subject to judgement, what would you need salvation from? Also, Acts 26:18 gives a good idea of the nature and purpose of salvation. Hmmm could there have be a kind of salvation/rescue/deliverance in the form of physical, mental and spiritual rescue/deliverance from bondage, kidnapping or ensarement of self-proclaimed "god kings" who established principalities and powers of darkness?

Michael Joseph
04-05-15, 07:53 PM
You speak about respect of persons in one way then in a different way in the same context. You also speak of the priesthood system that was in place due to special circumstances some might not comprehend and which has been replaced. The plan has been one of restoration not one for creating Mystery School franchises.

Its clear as to the context re: 'salvation'. If you weren't subject to judgement, what would you need salvation from? Also, Acts 26:18 gives a good idea of the nature and purpose of salvation. Hmmm could there have be a kind of salvation/rescue/deliverance in the form of physical, mental and spiritual rescue/deliverance from bondage, kidnapping or ensarement of self-proclaimed "god kings" who established principalities and powers of darkness?

I think perhaps you just don't understand me in regard to respect to persons. You have the same opportunity as I do. What you do with yourself is your choosing. But we both have access to God. Some choose not to learn and others do. Either way it seems what is most important to a man is that which he will seek after with his whole heart [mind].

The carnal mind is flesh based and is not subject to the law of God. The dark forces are self imposed as WE all will rise and fall as ONE. As long as the world remains carnal there will always be "dark forces". As a man thinks so he is. For thought always proceeds matter.

Herod will always seek to chop John's head off. For Herod is every man ruling in the carnal mind and John is a messenger sent forth from the Higher Mind. Therefore until we begin to do the hard work WITHIN, society will remain dirty without.

I don't agree with Mystery School but I understand why they exist. But that does not bind me in any way shape or fashion. There are no idols unless I allow them to exist.

Back to salvation: from what? Answer: Our carnality. One cannot be carnal and eat of the tree of life at the same time. The way to the garden [upper room] is barred to the carnal mind. This is shown by the "men of Sodom" pushing at the door of Lot's House. The angels blind the "men of Sodom". It is not for the Carnal Mind to see or understand.

Shalom,
MJ

xparte
04-05-15, 10:41 PM
This is a real Easter treat for me as spiritual as all men need or not do be they still require salvation and for what a great ? Is it for being to gnostic rabbinical priestly Confucius pagan or is religion as carnal as rigging the world series? I have no greater task but to live and die but too have one Christ with this attitude is resurrection & salvation itself. Who is following Moses outta carnal Egypt will be cursed or divine is God a respect-or of persons oblivious as a person is to another person their still out of Gods sight Christ died as a man his person was questioned and in Gods view the salvation was true . And the message building a palace and then still sleeping in the barn or the dark the palace folks and barn folks salvation cant hide carnal in neither the palace or the barn . What astounds me is a carnal mind needs feeding or a carnivorous nature its about survival not salvation if Christ had never said the words the blood the bread He drop plenty of crumbs for ones craving for daily bread that full cup of blood runs with Christ in us all between ones hungry heart and a thick Skull Christ gets closer with less or more. one gets a cup that runnith over spill some Christ or spread a crumb its never appropriate to say i didnt mean to say it but i meant what i said . never apologise for kindness when the argument is a carnal you the wounds of honour are a self infliction Christ is self choring honour exposes flesh I know the dessert and Moses walks in honour we all got a dessert finding the oasis wont shorten the walk.My thanks for this oasis and a sand storm is always welcomed but a basting or blasting depends on the sand paper.

doug555
04-05-15, 11:03 PM
I suspect most don't have any problem with knowledge that is true and profitable and worthy of knowing. It is "Gnosis" in the sense of heresies and baiting unto error that is the stuff of what many seem to dislike about "religion" which isn't in the Bible to begin with. Salvation is through faith/believing. However it is also written that: "Faith without works is dead". Much if not all of the burdensome doctrines or ideologies that came to be associated with the Bible or "Christianity" seem to have come from the "Gnostics".

Divine knowledge and wisdom continues to be available to and helpful the believer of course. Knowledge isn't the problem. But not all "knowledge" is profitable. Not all doctrines are sound.

The primary type of Gnostics being referred to are the types that felt that people had to be part of a secret clique in order to "approach the Divine" or had to join a secret society in order to have "true knowledge". The Nicolaitans were said to be of the Gnostics.

Agreed. See: http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/PW/k/46/Nicolaitanism-Today.htm (http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/PW/k/46/Nicolaitanism-Today.htm)

Unfortunately, it is in the context of syncretism that Nicolas is last mentioned in the post-biblical, historical record. Both Irenaeus (Against Heresies 1.26.3; 3.10.6) and Clement of Alexandria (Miscellanies, 3.4.25f) consider Nicolas of Antioch to be the founder of the Gnostic sect known as the Nicolaitans. Another early writer, Hippolytus, adds that Nicolas "departed from sound doctrine, and was in the habit of inculcating indifferency of both life and food" (Refutation of All Heresies, 7.24), meaning he taught the Gnostic belief of the irrelevance of physical things.


1 Tim 6:20-21 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-timothy/passage/?q=1+timothy+6:20-21)

20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"- 21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.

1 Cor 1:18-24 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-corinthians/passage/?q=1+corinthians+1:18-24)

The Wisdom of God
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, "I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE." 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Isa 29:14 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/isaiah/29-14.html)

14 Therefore behold, I will once again deal marvelously with this people, wondrously marvelous; And the wisdom of their wise men will perish, And the discernment [knowledge] of their discerning men will be concealed."

Isa 29:14 is the result of the literal fulfillment of Holyday 2 - the Desert Miracle (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/)! The abundant Scriptures supporting this "Desert Miracle" are found under Holyday #3 – The Pentecost Nation (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/holyday-3-the-pentecost-nation/).

The "wise" will be so embarrassed and ashamed of their "wisdom", "higher consciousness", "new age enlightenment", "I AM pantheism", that they will hide it!

This is the "gnosis" I am referring to.

Michael Joseph
04-05-15, 11:46 PM
We serve the same Christ we just see it from a different point of view. Some are awaiting a future event others seek Christ now. Both will be satisfied. I care not for the futurism as it leads to oppression today. When this message hits the streets in mass the Church Business Plan will go bankrupt.

Let it be.

This "I'm just a pilgrim passing thru mentality is for the birds", in my opinion. It allows folks to just treat this place as a waste land. Look around.

Until then here is a cup of tea for the tillerman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHlo_N34vuo).

"Bring tea for the tillerman, steak for the sun
Wine for the women who made the rain come
Seagulls sing your hearts away
'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play

Oh Lord, how they play and play
For that happy day, for that happy day"

Cat Stevens - Tea For The Tillerman


23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

may Christ be formed in all of us.

Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Our bed is Green sayeth the Shulamite woman.

Yes indeed xparte, all men and women require salvation. Isn't it HIGH TIME we move on past the baby milk of salvation. St. Paul made that request 2000 years ago.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Who can hear?

Shalom,
MJ

doug555
04-06-15, 12:29 AM
We serve the same Christ we just see it from a different point of view.

Lest others misunderstand, or assume that I agree with the above, for the record, I strongly disagree with that assertion/presumption.

See: http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/PW/k/46/Nicolaitanism-Today.htm

Unfortunately, it is in the context of syncretism that Nicolas is last mentioned in the post-biblical, historical record. Both Irenaeus (Against Heresies 1.26.3; 3.10.6) and Clement of Alexandria (Miscellanies, 3.4.25f) consider Nicolas of Antioch to be the founder of the Gnostic sect known as the Nicolaitans. Another early writer, Hippolytus, adds that Nicolas "departed from sound doctrine, and was in the habit of inculcating indifferency of both life and food" (Refutation of All Heresies, 7.24), meaning he taught the Gnostic belief of the irrelevance of physical things.

Rev 2:6 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/asv/revelation/2-6.html)

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

The Christ I serve hates Gnosticism.

Do not misunderstand. Christ does not hate Gnostics. He hates the works of the Gnostics.

So do I, for good cause.

BLBereans
04-06-15, 01:22 AM
The Christ I serve hates Gnosticism.

Do not misunderstand. Christ does not hate Gnostics. He hates the works of the Gnostics.

So do I, for good cause.

Here, Here!!!

I second that motion.

xparte
04-06-15, 02:33 AM
G.K Chesterton “it is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything! Nations are called to give glory, sacrifice, and worship to the Lord. He is their maker, He is the only true God. In this sense, all those who have not come to know the Lord still rob from their master like Onesimus did so long ago.a person is everyone who sins is a slave to sin. unprofitable slave… from useless to useful!Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin. Who,s prison Philemon 1:10-18 “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my imprisonment, who formally was useless to you, but now is useful to you and to me. {I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart… For perhaps he was for this reason separated from you for a while,} that you would have him back forever, no longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord. If then you regard me a partner, accept him as you would me. But if he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge that to my account.” in brackets only a person gets the separation account a Man both in the flesh & in the lord is a balanced account Do you care what accounting firm handles the books a Bank is a Bank in any nation Branches are not the tree thats you and me again Christ is what makes the books fallible no book can fail Christ. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin.” (Gal 3:22)[2]
a side is what you ask for because you cant afford a plate.This term person = everyone is sometimes used to describe all case law or judge made law. Constitution .... The concept that everyone obeys the law; no one is above it. I tell you the truth, [everyone] who sins is a slave to sin. Christ Those who have not been saved and set free by the power of the Lord Jesus are still in slavery to sin. They also become slaves to all sorts of fears and superstitions

allodial
04-06-15, 01:48 PM
1 Tim 6:20-21
20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"- 21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.
The impression that I get is that the "...worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called 'knowledge'" is a type of dust.

***

2496

The Nicolaitans & co. seem to love the Mosaic paradigm, they love holding people in probation and standing as a middleman. (Sadly, some people prefer that kind of indirect access.) They don't even see the Mosaic period for what it was--it had its purpose and its place this is clear. Perhaps they have a penchant for lording over others and acting as middle men and collecting fees for access to...??? Much of the Western industrial and financial system shows a penchant for standing in between people and their birthright. Gee, what a coincidence. The Nicolaitan's & and their cohorts don't discuss the Tabernacle of David (dare not even mention it)--why is that? With the Tabernacle of David access was possible 24/7 and the restrictions that were applicable to the Tabernacle of Moses were not take place. David is said to have been ahead of his time, he saw were God was pointing--he saw God's plan.

Given the choice: pyramid schemes vs. direct-to-source, what would any of you prefer? Of course the tabernacles were helps as one sets forth "...into His marvelous light". This is made clear.


But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. 1 Peter 2:9

So clearly the believer is made aware of a great and wonderful discovery awaits, there is worthy knowledge to be had and gained as part the relationship and walk with God. It is God's plan of salvation that restores each believer and puts them in a place of access to true knowledge and wisdom--rather than having to feast on dust.

The Nicolaitan types might love or prefer worship in "high places" and keeping God far off and out of reach as possible. What a coincidence. Maybe God was against high places worship because it was completely contrary to his plan. His plan wasn't to be an afar off God from what I gather.


Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Matthew 27:50-53

Who would be so "courteous" and "kind" as to sew the temple veil back together but Gnostics or Nicolaitans (i.e. Gnostics)? The Adversary it seems doesn't want God accessible to anyone and has many thinking they would be doing God a favor when they are really working to abate the presence of God from the entire planet (the Adversary wants true believers blamed and destroyed because his goal is to shut God out completely from access--the promotion of gross carnality and vileness is held out as "freedom" and "rights" and the Adversary's true purpose is concealed from the pawns who lend support.)

Michael Joseph
04-06-15, 07:47 PM
The Christ I serve hates Gnosticism.

Do not misunderstand. Christ does not hate Gnostics. He hates the works of the Gnostics.

So do I, for good cause.

What are the works of the Gnostics?

Onlashuk
04-06-15, 08:06 PM
I grew up attending a religious organization that put an emphasis on the physical aspect of duties, obligations and responsibilities. And, right on along with the demand and pressure to comply with said things was the kicker that if you did not comply, well, to put it plainly, using the words that religious organization used to use, “You will end up in the lake of fire.” That group never actually said hell, but that is what was implied. Make no mistake about this, that is the same manipulating message that all religious organizations use. This specific religious organization just packaged a little bit differently. Like a good minion I did what I was told and I played the same mind games of making myself look better than I actually was for the sake of the outward appearance. Such actions are worthless and only end up stealing from me the knowledge of knowing who I truly am, and what living this Life is really supposed to be about. The Feast Days of the Lord being with the Passover and then goes right into the Days of Unleavened Bread, which pictures the permanent removal of SIN from ones life. In that religious organization we used kept all of feast days listed in Leviticus 23. However, in relation to the spiritual purpose for the Days of Unleavened Bread, I must admit that I never quite understood how the physical act of the removal of leavened products, such as breads and cakes actually cleansed the inside of me. The truth is… it never did; and, it never could, for nothing physical can be profitable spiritually. But, through the tradition of religion and family men make it appear to be so even if it is only done in the fantasy of their carnal minds.

Nevertheless, I know personally what the ritual is all about and how empty it actually is, for it does nothing to benefit the soul as the duties and rituals performed are only for the outward appearance of looking good to others. I think that this experience would have been unnecessary if one thing was clearly known and understood correctly. That knowledge and understanding would be the difference between a literal dead-letter interpretation of the Holy Bible, verses a spiritual Life-giving understanding, which can only be revealed by the Holy Spirit herself. Now then, using this as the foundation to discover the true meaning of what the Days of Unleavened Bread actually do mean, which is the eradication of SIN from one’s Life, this discovery will forever change what one knows, or thought they knew about what SIN actually is. From this correct understanding of the true intent of the scriptures, the entire issue on SIN changes irrevocable from the message and doctrines that are preached by todays modern religious organizations. Mark My Words, once this knowledge is recognized and understood correctly no religious organization will ever be able to use SIN as a weapon of mass spiritual destruct in any form against you ever again. I am going to share with you exactly what my understanding of what SIN actually is, but first I will lay a bit of a foundation so that you can see where it is that I am coming from. Then I will share what has been revealed to me. But, be forewarned, if you are well adept to the legalistic dead-letter of the Word of God, what I have to say about the issue of SIN will not sit well with you as it goes against everything that is taught and preached in every religious organization that teaches and preaches from a legalistic dead-letter interpretation. So please be mindful and remember, ultimately your argument is not with me, but with the Creator and Father El Elyon Himself.

Now, speaking only for me, from and with the gifts of the understandings that the Holy Spirit has taught me, I perceive way to much emphasis on a literal interpretation of the words in the Holy Bible. I see this as being the main infection of dis-ease infecting all religious organizations of to-day. It is from this standpoint that I will share my thoughts on the difference between a literal understanding of what SIN is, and a spiritual one, which will completely reveal that a literalistic perspective and perception of the Word of God does indeed lead one to death. “There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.” (Proverbs 14:12 & 16:25) So then, my heart is to always be focused on THE WAY, and not my way, because, “…if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.” (1 Cor 8:2)

Now, let us look at SIN and what it is according to the Word of God, NOT according to a literal interpretation. For the traditions of men through religion has dictated that SIN is the breaking of the 10-commandments, or the 2-greatest commands, or the 613 laws, statutes and ordinances of the Old Covenant. Usually, this stance will always be backed up with 1 John 3:4, “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is transgression of the law.” From this posture, one can justifiably let the punishment begin and have the moral high ground to take that stand, and to execute it accordingly on all matters, correct? I would only give a soft reminder for those of such a mindset to be aware of the judgment that one is NOT to judge with, and then let it go at that, for each must chose to be a, “Follower of The Way,” or to go about matters by THEIR OWN WAY. But, what if this understanding of SIN is not only short of the true understanding of what SIN is in the context of the SPIRIT OF THE LETTER, but is also an incorrect understanding because it is founded in a literal dead letter interpretation? How in the heck can I make such an outlandish claim as this? Well, keep reading and you will see exactly why I am saying what I am saying. First, let us take a look a few scriptures and let them do the talking by and through the power of the Holy Spirit as our teacher leading us into all wisdom and truth.

• John 4:23-24, “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
• 2 Corinthians 3:6, “Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
• John 6:63, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.”

What this is clearly pointing out is the fact that the carnal mind receives its sustenance from the flesh through its 5 senses. This is why the flesh profits nothing. For those 5 senses are the 5 husbands that Yehoshuah spoke of to the woman (Emotions) at the well and she had no True Husband. In other words, Christ was not the Head of her Life. You see, if you read that literally in the dead-letter you will miss this golden nugget of truth. This is why the carnal mind is purposefully blinded to all things spiritual as it dwells in darkness (Ignorance and Fear through its own pride and arrogance) and is completely bereft of any Light (Wisdom Proverbs 4:7, which comes from true knowledge, Proverbs 18:15 and understanding Proverbs 16:16), which is the Spirit of the Word enabling one to be blessed with the proper and correct meaning unto Life Eternal.

... [CONTINUED IN POST 2 of 5] ...

doug555
04-06-15, 10:23 PM
What are the works of the Gnostics?

Glad you asked...

Whatever Happened to Gnosticism? Part One: False Knowledge (http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/ARTB/k/1186/Gnosticism-False-Knowledge.htm)

Paul warns Timothy about "the subtleties and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination." The word translated "knowledge" in most translations ("science" in the King James Version) is the Greek gnosis. Literally meaning "to know," it forms the root of the word Gnosticism. It is possible, even probable, that Paul refers to Gnosticism here, since both of his letters to Timothy contain warnings against false teachers bringing in foreign concepts that were undermining the faith of church members.


Whatever Happened to Gnosticism? Part Two: Defining Gnosticism (http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/ARTB/k/1193/Whatever-Happened-Gnosticism-Part-Two-Defining-Gnosticism.htm)

At the core of Gnosticism is the belief that knowledge, typically secret knowledge—knowledge from angels, from the stars and planets, from the ancients—was the path to holiness and salvation. They believed that the path of redemption was through knowledge, and that the worst evil was ignorance.

Thus, they did not endeavor to overcome sin but ignorance. If they could just become wise enough, they reasoned, sin would not be a problem because they would be more spiritual than physical. Obviously, they overlooked man's incurably sick heart (Jeremiah 17:9), and the struggle that a person must undertake to overcome it. The Gnostics believed that the solution was found in greater understanding, rather than in a Savior and High Priest who justifies and guides us through a process of sanctification. In essence, Gnostics would rather learn than submit.
...
Some branches of Gnosticism adhered to asceticism as a way to free the eternal spirit by living regimented, plain, and insular lives. (Conversely, some Gnostics went to the other extreme—practicing hedonism—believing that what they did with their bodies did not make any difference since only spirit mattered.)


Whatever Happened to Gnosticism? Part Three: Satan's Three Heresies (http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/ARTB/k/1205/Whatever-Happened-Gnosticism-Part-Three-Satans-Three-Heresies.htm)

These three heresies, each subtly undercutting God's truth and plan for mankind, have been recycled since Creation, effectively continuing the separation from God begun in the Garden of Eden. Certainly, Gnosticism incorporates these foundational falsehoods, but they also exist in every anti-God system of belief, organized or not.

An area where the wrong approach to knowledge becomes apparent is in love toward God and toward fellow man, and especially toward our brethren and families. The Gnostics tended to disdain those who were not as "enlightened" as they were. Knowledge and understanding were their currency, and they assigned value to people based on what they knew, a practice completely contrary to God's way of outgoing concern.


Nicolaitanism Today (http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/PW/k/46/Nicolaitanism-Today.htm)

Unfortunately, it is in the context of syncretism that Nicolas is last mentioned in the post-biblical, historical record. Both Irenaeus (Against Heresies 1.26.3; 3.10.6) and Clement of Alexandria (Miscellanies, 3.4.25f) consider Nicolas of Antioch to be the founder of the Gnostic sect known as the Nicolaitans. Another early writer, Hippolytus, adds that Nicolas "departed from sound doctrine, and was in the habit of inculcating indifferency of both life and food" (Refutation of All Heresies, 7.24), meaning he taught the Gnostic belief of the irrelevance of physical things.


Now, let me define "works of the Gnostics": the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge (gnosis) of Good and Evil - Death - for about 6000 years of man's recorded history.

Can it be any clearer?

BLBereans
04-06-15, 11:34 PM
Is it me, or is there is something eerily familiar about all that...???

george
04-07-15, 01:48 AM
interesting topic..

IMO the situation is FUBAR though because all we really have to work with is hearsay when you get right down to it.

I find the "non-christian historical evidence" just as suspect as the not non. and the gnostics, the hindus, the druids or even the spagettimonsterites. ALL Suspect!

but some things just seem to make sense and if there is any truth AT ALL it seems to have a nice ring to it but what is nice to some is not for others so here we are.

nothing is absolute and nothing is absolute and nothing is absolute. know what I mean?

Michael Joseph
04-07-15, 02:07 AM
Since many have gone off on this rabbit trail of Gnosticism, please, pray tell where I ever said that Salvation was by works?

Furthermore, the Bible itself declares that we should diligently seek after knowledge and wisdom, does it not?

and; Furthermore, Jesus Himself declared that His disciples would be about His works and would do greater works then He.

And yet, when working or diligently seeking knowledge is mentioned in ANY religious circle for some odd reason, which I can't understand, those who feel threatened the most resort to calling names. It seems to me that the only reason Gnosticism was ever a threat to the established religion was that it threatened their concept of doing nothing but believing that a savior exists.

Some of that John 3:16 bull dung. How about we check out that word believe - it means to entrust or place ones trust. Jesus commanded that we do much more than just place our trust in The Word [John 1:1]; He commanded us to obey [works]. Something about having no works is death rings a bell. Ding....Ding.... Yes indeed, there it is Faith absent Deeds is dead. But don't threaten our precious concept of Salvation - Ephesians and all - it is a free undeserved gift.

This would be funny to me if it was not so sad. Nobody is saying that one can work to earn Salvation - nevertheless where is the worker in the field? "Who will go for us" was the question from the throne. Be careful worker, many will try to put false labels upon you calling you all sorts of nasty names like "A Knower" - so thank you to those who would call me a Gnostic - that really makes me laugh.

For the Holy Spirit thru St. Paul so adeptly wrote thru Her Wisdom - Rom_10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Gee, I wonder why the Holy Spirit would feel compelled to issue that statement? Especially when the Proverbs and so many other places command that we gain Knowledge of God. In fact in the great book of Hosea [Salvation] we find:

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Pro 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

Pro 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

Pro 1:7 The reverence of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.


Yes, the flesh does lead to death. Thank you for finally coming to the Light. But the allegorical light of the Spirit which is couched in the Fleshly things leads to Life.

I suppose I shall do it again: Christ JESUS and Jesus CHRIST are two terms which do not mean the same thing in terms of usage by the latter day writers. St. Paul is very clear but who can see? These two show that Christ condescended into the Flesh [John 1:1] and was put on trial, beaten, and put to death. So look around you today. The Word has been put on trial, portions of been removed [the gambled for his clothes] and eventually killed as the keys of KNOWLEDGE have been removed. The Word has been placed in a rich man's tomb [the Church]. And who can deny this is not the Church system of religion which holds the Word entombed? Look at all the fancy robes and the ornate buildings. Entombed is a kind way of saying it.

And yet the truth remains concealed all along and men go to and fro with their vain rites and traditions thinking themselves to be holy. Nevertheless when it turns to the Lord the veil will be removed and the Church will be out of a job. I wonder when it turns to the Lord who will issue forth to DO THE WORK? They had best have thick skin because many in their blindness will call names and throw stones.

For when it turns to the Lord, then the entombed Word shall resurrect to life which is to say Jesus CHRIST.

Furthermore, I would be careful about the use of the term disdain others. Jesus Himself had his closed society. There are many things that cannot be discussed candidly. Not to call names, that is not the point, but to point out that not all matters can be discussed openly. The Bible is very clear on this matter. For those who eat at "strong meat" are not to do so in front of their brethren still sipping on the milk nipple. I can see however how a "pew sitter" might feel disdain from another who refused to allow him to come to their "assembly".

For instance St. Paul desired greatly to discuss Melchizedok and the two Cheribim, but declaring that the "milk sippers" were not ready for such strong meat. What is new under the sun?


Nevertheless, pride is a terrible aspect of our carnal existence. So let me set the record straight. I left salvation about one hundred miles ago. Pressing on past that now there are other things to KNOW and there are other WORKS to do. Sitting at the feet of my Mother [Proverbs 31] in submission to the Holy Spirit - for she commanded his servants saying do as He says- John 2.

What a privilege to be useful to the King - Amen. If I place my trust in you, then I freely subject myself to your rule. The only logical question left is what would you have me to do? Upon what estate should I occupy? Therefore Jesus taught us how to open up the gate of communication with God - TO DAY - and yet in ignorance the world remains WILLINGLY blind awaiting their destruction.

I can't find anywhere where Jesus promoted religion. His gospel was "The Kingdom of God is at hand".

Some prefer the "Love Letter" and others seek diligently after the "face to face embrace".

Desolation Row (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35gheud5xBo)


Shalom,
MJ

doug555
04-07-15, 10:17 PM
...

Yes, the flesh does lead to death. Thank you for finally coming to the Light.

You misquote... I never said that.

I said "the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge (gnosis) of Good and Evil" causes death, just as Gen 2:17 says.

Gnostics believe the physical flesh is evil, which is just the opposite of what the Creator says in Gen 1:31,

"And God saw all that He had made, and behold it was very good."

Satan is the author of the "flesh is evil" and "sex is shameful" constructs, which cause separation of man from himself and his mate (the attack on marriage).

Satan is also the author of the "man is gullible" (intellectually shameful) construct, which causes separation of man from his Creator (the attack on religion).

Don't confuse pure religion (Js 1:27) with perverted religion (pantheism, gnosticism, mysticism, syncretism, existentialism, syncretism, etc.).

Satan has succeeded in destroying the original intent and meaning of both of these words, religion and marriage. That campaign started in Eden, as should be obvious.

Christ promoted the religion of the Will of God, as depicted by the Seven Annual Holydays, which He observed during His lifetime.

The "Lord's Prayer (http://pentecostnation.org/holyday-prayer.html)" is modeled after these SEVEN BIG MILESTONE EVENTS (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-plan/) that bring the Kingdom of God to earth.

When Holyday 2 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/) occurs, it will provide the most stunning "Non-Christian Historical Evidence for the Existence of Jesus"!

BLBereans
04-07-15, 11:10 PM
A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.


Reasons to Believe (http://www.reasons.org/blogs/reflections/god-incarnate-jesus-christ’s-unique-identity)

allodial
04-08-15, 10:40 AM
The five husbands of the Samaritan woman are explained at 2 Kings 17:29-33. How can you have five senses as your husband but yet "know not what ye worship"? "Ye" is plural.


Five People, Five Gods
When the original inhabitants of Samaria were exiled from their land by Shalmaneser, the Assyrian king, sent people from five different places in Babylon, each group with its own god, to inhabit the land of Samaria. The Jews who were left in Samaria intermarried with these people and incorporated the worship of their gods into the worship of Jehovah. While they continued to claim that they feared and worshipped the Lord — Jehovah, and convinced themselves that they did, they became base idolaters and forsook the worship of God altogether. Read 2 Kings 17:29-33.

{Can you imagine someone worshiping the "moon principle" and the "sun principle" but rejecting God as a an intelligent being altogether?}

“Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt. And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth[1], and the men of Cuth made Nergal,[2] and the men of Hamath made Ashima,[3] And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak,[4] and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.[5] So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places. They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.”

These five gods (Nibhaz and Tartak as a conglomerate and Adrammelech and Anammelech as a conglomerate), like the five husbands this Samaritan woman had had, were all false gods of whoredom. As those men were not this woman’s husbands, (They took everything from her and gave her nothing!), so the gods of the heathen were not God and were not husbands to her needy soul. But He who was her Husband, the Lord Jesus Who had espoused her to Himself from eternity had come “to take the names of Balaam out of her mouth” and to teach her to call Him alone “My Husband” (Hosea 2:16-17). O may He do that for you!

=After a while, the southern tribes of the nation, Judah, were taken captive and carried away into Babylon for seventy years. But they never lost their distinct identity as Jews, and stoutly refused to worship the gods of Babylon.


Succothbenoth - meant booths of daughters or prostitutes.
Nergal - means 'dunghill cock' (symbol of a hero worshipped) or meant "hero" -- one of the chief Assyrian and Babylonian deities, seems to have corresponded closely to the classical Mars. ( 2 Kings 17:30 ) It is conjectured that he may represent the deified Nimrod.
Ashima - means crime; offense. (Hindu/Sanskrit - Without borders; Limitless).Also may refer to a particular river. was the god of Hamath, worshipped under the image of an ape or a goat with no fur.
Nibhaz was a dog, representing a demon. Tartak was a jackass, representing the prince of darkness. Both were probably made of gold.
Adrammelech was the sun god, in the form of a man. Anammelech was the moon god with the representation of a woman. They were images of Molech, to whom men and women offered their own children as sacrifices in fire.


None of those words had any specific relation to worship of the five senses. The five husbands = five senses is without foundation.


2503
St. John's Gospel Described and Explained Volume 2 by Christoph Ernst Luthardt - Page 63


2504
Discourses and Sayings of Our Lord Jesus Christ by John Brown - Page 70 footnote.

The five husbands was a reference to idol worship. The sixth husband was reference to the Samaritans not having properly been 'evangelized' into Israel. The Samaritans were known for claiming to be Jews while not being so. The Gnostic claiming "five husbands" = "five senses" is baseless. Husband is a word that refers to one who protects an asset or assets. The Temple was still standing at the time.


Simon {Magus} was the Samaritan sorcerer who professed conversion to Christianity and sought to buy an apostleship. The Bible records this historic event in Acts 8:9-24.
...
There are veiled references to Simon's false Christianity and similar heretical sects in the New Testament. Jude 4, for example, is rather pointed against Simon's principal doctrine—the heresy that one does not have to obey God's laws after conversion. John, the apostle who completed the Bible, placed great emphasis on Christians keeping God's commandments (I John 2:3-6).

John's phrase about those "who say they are Jews, and are not, but lie" (Revelation 3:9) may have its first-century basis in Simon's Samaritan counterfeit of true Christianity. Josephus, a Jewish historian of the first century, mentions that Samaritans would falsely claim to be Jews when they thought it was to their advantage to do so (Antiquities of the Jews, 9.14.3; 9.8.6). (Source (http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/153/Who-Was-Simon-Magus-Acts-89-24.htm))


2505 (http://www.reformation.org/simon-the-magician.html)


2506 (http://www.reformation.org/simon-the-magician.html)


In the early portion his Book VI of the Refutation of All Heresies, Hippolytus deals with the reported writings of Simon from a book called Megale Apophasis, or the Great Announcement.[14] Using Justin as his source, Hippolytus states that Simon was from the village of Gitta in Samaria. However, unlike in Irenaeus, Simon is characterized by Hippolytus as trying to explain the mysteries of the law of Moses, and incorporating them into his own doctrines.

According to Hippolytus, Simon claims to have appeared to the Jews “in Judea as ‘Son,’ and in Samaria as ‘Father,’ and among the rest of the Gentiles as ‘Holy Spirit.”[17] Simon was claiming to be the Father, the one true God. (Source (http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/apocryphal-writings-and-latter-day-saints/12-simon-magus-history-versus-tradition))



2507 (http://www.iamthewitness.com/listeners/Just.What.Is.The.Synagogue.of.Satan.htm)

Related:

Simon the Magician (http://www.reformation.org/simon-the-magician.html)
The Samaritans (http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/arc/neapolis/samaritans.htm)
Just What Is the Synagogue of Satan? (http://www.iamthewitness.com/listeners/Just.What.Is.The.Synagogue.of.Satan.htm)

xparte
04-09-15, 04:26 AM
The management of all franchised religion can be only as great as the product. its selling ?and what is it one must buy in-order to receive a gift. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool,First things first perfectly plain


Because you being a man make yourself God and he replied
isn't it written in your law I have said you are God's
he's quoting a legal or lawful
psalm
is it not written in your law I have said
you are God's if God call them those to whom he gave his word
god's and you can't deny the Scriptures how can you say I blaspheme
because I said I am
A Son of God. Well that's it in a nutshell
King James Bible descended with A or THE angel of God
in italics in front of
these words the Son of God because I said I am
the Son of God and most people think that the italics
for emphasis they're not,, the italics indicate words interpolated by the
translators where the angel left it up to translators
you will not find that in the Greek
the Greek says a son of God so it seems to me here perfectly plain
that Jesus is know bodies fool or messiah or salvation you are your own
Christ got it in the back of his mind that this isn't something
peculiar to himself so when he says
I am the way no man comes to the Father but by me
this I am this me. ME being you thats the class forget all the teachers its the divine in us and lets be tight on this each Man has just as much fool in him as he has Christ in him
which in hebrew would be called
the Ruach, Spirit of God. In a living creature (nephesh chayah), the ruach is the breath that God brezzed into adam that is what makes man the creature divine or having now the nature of or sons of God the nephesh

spirit of God Christ full house ask a theologian what's the difference between spirit and the soul

but it's very clear in some with St Paul's writings so the point is that they Ruach
is the divine in the creature
by virtue we are sons of God
or of the nature of God manifestations that the divine
that is the good news So the bad news is there isn't any if u keep a spirit with God and control your carnal soul we all are governed from within if Christ was a fool u will find Know better fool finding a bigger fool takes less teaching and no greater moral thought. Every one has a moral compass or they need directions God had know intentions of breathing life into a Bible And Christ was only knocking the wind out of it. When truth ruins a dream stop telling it or dreaming that you told it. All honest answers can only be sought only the foolish will answer and yet think it wise.Reasons to believe are individual and with Christ he had his reasons if for only one reason believe in ones self work it out with what he hasn't said.I took the cohesive route to be understood not herd .

xparte
04-09-15, 05:36 AM
Who better to exploit Judea but Judea and yet its facilitating a Hebrew homecoming for every sage mystic globalist {$atanic} kabbilistic Talmudic odds maker one might never need a devil when u cant feed your family honest thoughts Being Hebrew has a greater sense than that of wonder its knowing the books are about people and mistakes books make just as many as people who writes and who wrongs.Good examples and reference studies yet finding cooties and having them after the cure is the worst part.

allodial
04-09-15, 02:56 PM
The pop culture view of Christianity is mainly supported by the "poster boy" of something other than the original, pure doctrines and its followers. There are a few on the planet who have remained close to the original teachings. Its interesting for a heretical Gnostic to contort the original teachings, then hate the result but yet still blame God or Jesus or the believers for something they aren't even a part of and didn't conjure up. Sounds like a PSYOPS/warfare tactic. Who would figure that the pop idea of "original sin" and "uber guilt trip" could have come from heretical Gnostics (but yet they try to blame true believers for that!)?


Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Galatians 4:1-7

God reveals many things to his own. "Like father like son" is an old saying that just might have a lot of truth to it. A son tends to inherit traits of his father. Almost goes without saying. But a son might need tutors and governors until he is wise, intelligent, mature and stable enough--until the time appointed. A shady tutor or trustee might attempt to unnecessarily extend a son or daughter's probation period--its not the father's or the son's or daughter's fault. Perhaps the disobedient tutors and trustees are to blame?

I am convinced of it to be a great error to think of land and sky as the only aspects of such inheritance. For, the character, powers, abilities, skills, creative tendencies that a son or daughter inherit from the Father are just as much as part of the inheritance or kingdom too--if not the most significance aspects. A father teaches his daughters and sons how to come into their inheritance rightly and solidly. The carnally-minded are so obsessed with physical land and territory (outer or external obsessions). But their obsession reveals them for who, what or where they are.

The historical record seems to show that heretical Gnostics have been the ones who have set out conceal the truth, to block the way and adversely affect the lives and destinies of the heirs as if to thwart their receiving adequate training from the Father.

xparte
04-09-15, 05:35 PM
Well said and for the wealth of the newest kingdom Judea came from God,s grace not the temples financial wealth that's been plundered twice was its only bankruptcy financial or a bankrupted truth . The Kingships in Sol then David and Solomon was possible because of Gold or God. Kings placed the Trust in the temple and people the trust in the kings. who now may i trust?