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doug555
04-11-15, 07:03 PM
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The “favorable year” of Lk 4:19 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/4-19.html) begins on Holyday 2 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/)...
when the “Desert Miracle (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/isaiah/55-13.html)” frees God’s People!



Lev 25:8-10 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/leviticus/passage/?q=leviticus+25:8-10)

8 ‘You are also to count off seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years, so that you have the time of the seven sabbaths of years, namely, forty-nine years. 9 ‘You shall then sound a ram’s horn abroad on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall sound a horn all through your land. 10 ‘You shall thus consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim a release through the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, and each of you shall return to his own property, and each of you shall return to his family.



The 50th Year was the Jubilee Year, when all were released from their debts and free to return and possess their original grant of family property. This Jubilee Year was announced during the previous 49th year, on the 10th day of the 7th month, on the Day of Atonement.

This 49th and 50th year pattern is a perfect TYPE for what happens when Holydays 2 and 3 occur as their anti-types.

...

Day 49 for this year occurs on May 23, 2015.

...

Continued (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-year/)...

BLBereans
04-12-15, 03:33 PM
In the interest of seeking truth regarding the claim that England is "Ephraim" and America is "Manasseh"...

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/nl071.htm

I am totally for calling on God's intervention; however, let us be discerning and test all things to see if they are from God.

Perhaps the remnants of Jacob spoken about are not as abundant in the area of this "desert miracle" occurrence, as in the area of the "middle east". This is where you find the few who hold fast amidst the terrible backlash and evil committed against God's people/nation. This would be a greater testimony and miracle happening in an area where death is certain for those who claim Jesus The Christ as Lord and Savior.

Whereas, in America, the majority of people claim the faith of Jesus The Christ without meaningful persecution as in the threat of being killed for such claims.

This is NOT a dismissal, but a further investigation and study of the claims made regarding the "desert miracle".

doug555
04-12-15, 03:52 PM
In the interest of seeking truth regarding the claim that England is "Ephraim" and America is "Manasseh"...

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/nl071.htm

I am totally for calling on God's intervention; however, let us be discerning and test all things to see if they are from God.

Perhaps the remnants of Jacob spoken about are not as abundant in the area of this "desert miracle" occurrence, as in the area of the "middle east". This is where you find the few who hold fast amidst the terrible backlash and evil committed against God's people/nation. This would be a greater testimony and miracle happening in an area where death is certain for those who claim Jesus The Christ as Lord and Savior.

Whereas, in America, the majority of people claim the faith of Jesus The Christ without meaningful persecution as in the threat of being killed for such claims.

This is NOT a dismissal, but a further investigation and study of the claims made regarding the "desert miracle".


Isaiah's Vision of the United States - israelect.com (http://israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/Isaiah's%20Vision%20[A].htm)

http://www.triumphpro.com/isaiah-18-mysterious-prophecy.pdf (http://www.triumphpro.com/isaiah-18-mysterious-prophecy.pdf)

http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/Judahs_Sceptre_Josephs_Birthright.pdf (http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/Judahs_Sceptre_Josephs_Birthright.pdf) (pp. 323-324, in Chapter VIII)

http://stevenmcollins.com/html/usa_in_prophecy.html (http://stevenmcollins.com/html/usa_in_prophecy.html)


The Isa 18:7 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/isaiah/18-7.html) "gift of homage" refers to the time after the Great Tribulation, when the conquered and enslaved British and America peoples are brought back by their captors to their Divinely-appointed Homelands. (Isa 49:22-26 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/isaiah/passage/?q=isaiah+49:22-26)).

There are many who want to hide the true identity of 10 Tribes, especially where the 2 Birthright Tribes are today, the descendants of Joseph from Jacob.

Wonder why?

It should be obvious that US & UK are the 2 Birthright Tribes, and that the UK has no desert.

allodial
04-12-15, 05:25 PM
It might be worth noting that America is not the United States. America created states which formed the United States of America.

Re: eagles
Rome also had the symbol of the eagle. But the United States of America in particular has had the symbol of an eagle with outstretched wings. The UK is a conglomeration of kingdoms of England, Scotland (and Northern Ireland) respectively rather than a nation. It is worth noting that original doctrines of Christ came to the British Isles and Ireland approximately four hundred years before Roman Catholic missionaries came. Also, the monarchies or sovereignty of the English was not necessarily derived from William the Conqueror since sovereignty existed in England before 1066.

doug555
04-12-15, 06:19 PM
Covenant Publishing, Ltd. (http://www.covenantpublishing-na.com/index.php)

A good research link...

doug555
04-12-15, 09:37 PM
It might be worth noting that America is not the United States. America created states which formed the United States of America.

Re: eagles
Rome also had the symbol of the eagle. But the United States of America in particular has had the symbol of an eagle with outstretched wings. The UK is a conglomeration of kingdoms of England, Scotland (and Northern Ireland) respectively rather than a nation. It is worth noting that original doctrines of Christ came to the British Isles and Ireland approximately four hundred years before Roman Catholic missionaries came. Also, the monarchies or sovereignty of the English was not necessarily derived from William the Conqueror since sovereignty existed in England before 1066.

Read The Drama of the Lost Disciples (http://www.amazon.com/Drama-Lost-Disciples-George-Jowett/dp/0852050232) by George F. Jowlett

BLBereans
04-13-15, 12:01 AM
How can we equate the original doctrines of Christ coming to the British Isles and Ireland approximately four hundred years before Roman Catholic missionaries came with the "desert miracle" prophesied by Isaiah simply because an "eagle" is used as an analogy relating to this passage?

I am not refuting the premise of how the gospel reached the "United Kingdom" mind you, I am just practicing diligent discernment regarding the "jump" from that to equating England with Ephraim and America with Manasseh.

Again, this is NOT a dismissal of the premise; it is only a question posed in order to glean more evidence in scripture which allows NO ROOM for any other interpretation regarding when and where this "desert miracle" takes place.

Let's keep going...

allodial
04-13-15, 10:24 PM
Right. I'm not getting the leaps of logic in the theories. I get the impression that if the first Pentecost after the resurrection were given the significance it deserves then there might not be much for the author to write about. That could be a wrong impression. However, its an interesting topic nonetheless...just would like to see more solid foundations. There might be something to it. There is definitely IMHO some significance to the planting of a church in the British Isles before ahead of Roman Catholicism.

doug555
04-13-15, 11:09 PM
Yes, I really appreciate that suggestion. Let's together "nail this down" so there is no wiggle room to deny where this "desert miracle" must appear on earth.

I am not really relying on Isa 18 at all, the "eagle" heraldry, or even equating England with Ephraim and America with Manasseh, which, IMO, could be interpreted either way it seems.

I am relying more on Ps 99:4 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/psalms/99-4.html); 87:2 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/psalms/87-2.html); 98:3 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/psalms/98-3.html); 59:13 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/psalms/59-13.html). These verses declare "Jacob" and the "House of Israel" as the location of His revealing His righteousness to "all the ends of the earth".

These verses provide probable cause to believe that SOMETHING BIG (Ps 98:1-3 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/psalms/passage/?q=psalm+98:1-3); 99:1-5 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/psalms/passage/?q=psalm+99:1-5)) is going to happen where "Jacob" and the "House of Israel" are living, and NOT where Judah lives (Palestine).

OK, then what could this event be?

Well, Isa 55:13 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/isaiah/55-13.html) describes an event that is a "desert miracle" that is of such a magnitude and significance that it elevates it to being "an everlasting sign which will not be cut off".

This "everlasting sign" status indicates that it could actually be one of the annual holydays (annual sabbaths), which God established as "signs" (Ezek 20:19-20 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/ezekiel/passage/?q=ezekiel+20:19-20)), just as He established the weekly sabbath as a "sign" FOREVER (Ex 31:13, 17 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/passage/?q=exodus+31:13;+exodus+31:17)).

We know from the Book of Exodus that the Creator used "dry land" to miraculously deliver His people (who at that time were the national Israelites) from ancient Egypt, when He led them across the Red Sea in the desert wilderness.

What better fulfillment of that TYPE could there be than to deliver His people today (who will be the "spiritual Israelites" from all over the world) by using "dry land" again, and this time to transform it into a desert oasis in the land of "Jacob" and the "House of Israel" in order to make the connection (jump) so blatantly obvious that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is alive and well, and is confirming both the physical and spiritual promises made to them so that they and their "seed" (both the national and spiritual Israelites) could perform their calling to be a blessing to all of the nations of the world (Gen 22:18 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/genesis/22-18.html)), and for the world to accept them as such, as the Firstfruits, the Bride of the Lamb, who have come together as such from each nation on the earth?!

What better testimony and fulfillment of Holyday 3, Pentecost, could there be than to have that "Holy Nation" living among "Jacob", the "House of Israel", the physical Birthright nations, so that the Bible, and the God who wrote that Bible, would be glorified and exalted above all of this world's false gods?

Does not Ps 97 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/psalms/97.html) describe this exaltation that will encompass the entire earth?

Is this not the same awesome "good news" that was predicted by Christ in Mt 24:14 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/24-14.html)?

To have this "desert miracle" in any other place would certainly diminish, if not eliminate, such a testimony and exaltation.


Now...

Will this "desert miracle" happen in Britain or America, the only 2 places that "Jacob" and the "House of Israel", as the 2 sons of Joseph, live?

Since there is no "desert" that compares with what America has in its Soutwest, it should be obvious, then, where this "desert miracle" will occur.


The "desert miracle" of Isa 55:13 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/isaiah/55-13.html) will occur in Southwest America!



Now, consider this --


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Is it just a coincidence that a major military "exercise" is occurring in that very same region of America, starting this July?

Is Satan desperately trying to preempt Holyday 2?

Or is the Creator orchestrating all of this to prepare the way for Holyday 2's fulfillment?

Remember what happened to Haman in Esther 7 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/esther/7.html)...

Believe, brethren, that an awesome miracle is about to occur in America, right before our very eyes!

The literal fulfillment of Holydays 2 & 3, and our awesome opportunity to be part of the Bride and Wife of Christ - FOREVER!!

allodial
04-13-15, 11:16 PM
That the feast days have significance makes sense. The Four Corners area is very well known in Hopi prophecy.

BLBereans
04-14-15, 11:23 PM
Taking Isaiah 55 in context...

Isaiah 52

The Lord’s Coming Salvation and His punishment endured for our sake.

Isaiah 53

It was God's Will that He should be punished and sacrificed in order to redeem many through His intercession.

Isaiah 54

The Eternal Promise of Peace, through Him, for those who believe and who suffer and are counted as the least in this world.

Isaiah 55

The Compassion of God - This is a prophecy of The One who will Come and Live among us.

1 "Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

The call of the "thirsty" and "hungry" by Jesus to come "drink" and "eat" from His offerings without the requirement of money; He gives of Himself freely.

2 Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread, and your labor for that which does not satisfy? Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good, and delight yourselves in rich food.

Stop worrying about worldly/fleshly needs and be truly satisfied, spiritually, by taking in what Jesus has to give.

3 Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, my steadfast, sure love for David.

Listen and believe that you will live forever by my promise and love as revealed to David.

4 Behold, I made him a witness to the peoples, a leader and commander for the peoples.

David believed and he was rewarded by being appointed to a high position.

5 Behold, you shall call a nation that you do not know, and a nation that did not know you shall run to you, because of the LORD your God, and of the Holy One of Israel, for he has glorified you.

Those who follow Jesus will call on people whom they do not know and they will heed that call because God works His Will through you when you accept Jesus' glorification of you.

6 "Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;

Be diligent in following His Way while there is time to yet find Him.

7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Those who are in knowing and willing rebellion against God will remain that way. Pray that when they return to Jesus, He has compassion and that our Father will pardon in great numbers.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

God's thoughts and ways are higher and wiser than we can imagine.

10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

God's sending of Jesus is not without accomplishment; His whole purpose will be fulfilled and bear great fruit according to His intent.

12 "For you shall go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and the hills before you shall break forth into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

Jesus' followers will happily and peacefully go forth to spread the gospel; foreign people and familiar people will follow your lead and ALL the people in your midst will rejoice.

13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the cypress; instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle; and it shall make a name for the LORD, an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off."

You will bring up generations of righteous people, who would otherwise turn to evil, and they will glorify God; something that will never perish throughout eternity.


This is how I interpret these verses. It is Isaiah prophesying about the coming of Jesus The Christ and the great work He will do, as well as those who follow after Him.

I see no modern day "desert miracle" prophesied, as posed by the OT, revealed in this passage.

doug555
04-15-15, 12:30 AM
Taking Isaiah 55 in context...

I see no modern day "desert miracle" prophesied, as posed by the OT, revealed in this passage.

Then consider the scriptures about a "desert miracle" that I cite on the page at Holyday #3 – The Pentecost Nation (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/holyday-3-the-pentecost-nation/).

The "context" must include the whole Bible, and the "context" provided by the 7 Annual Holydays (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/worldwide-petition-for-divine-intervention/).

After Holyday 1, how do you "jump" past Holyday 2 to Holyday 3 or 4?

The religious leaders in Christ's day skipped Holydays 1-3, and still look only for Holyday 4.

We should be learning from their mistake.

BTW: This link (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+55&version=NASB) will show the NASB margin note for Isa 55:13 as "the transformation of the desert".

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The Holyday Plan Context:

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doug555
04-24-15, 01:08 AM
That the feast days have significance makes sense. The Four Corners area is very well known in Hopi prophecy.

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The Prophecies of the Hopi People (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_leyenda_hopi5.htm)


How much suffering and destruction will accompany the time of the purification, and what will be its end result? Martin Gasheseoma foretells judgment in front of a big mirror and death to those who are evil and wicked, with only a handful of people surviving in every nation overseas who will then come to this continent, "which we call heaven."


Micah 4:1-2 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/micah/passage/?q=micah+4:1-2)


1 And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains. It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it. 2 Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For from Zion will go forth the law, Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

BLBereans
04-25-15, 07:07 PM
Is the resurrection of Jesus The Christ not a miracle event constituting the rise of the 'firstfruits'? Does not this event happen between the Passover and The Day of Pentecost depicted in Acts? The word 'pentecost' is greek for "fiftieth" meaning the fiftieth day after the 'firstfruits'.

The Holy Spirit was received by those depicted in Acts after seven weeks and the miracles performed were by the power of that Spirit indwelling within them. This coincides with the Sinai event Moses experienced.

I see no "jump" past Holy Day 2; Jesus' miraculous resurrection on the third day more than satisfies Holy Day 2 as He is the culmination of 'firstfruits' from the beginning, then, now and forever.

doug555
04-25-15, 07:44 PM
Is the resurrection of Jesus The Christ not a miracle event constituting the rise of the 'firstfruits'? Does not this event happen between the Passover and The Day of Pentecost depicted in Acts? The word 'pentecost' is greek for "fiftieth" meaning the fiftieth day after the 'firstfruits'.

The Holy Spirit was received by those depicted in Acts after seven weeks and the miracles performed were by the power of that Spirit indwelling within them. This coincides with the Sinai event Moses experienced.

I see no "jump" past Holy Day 2; Jesus' miraculous resurrection on the third day more than satisfies Holy Day 2 as He is the culmination of 'firstfruits' from the beginning, then, now and forever.

The Feast of Passover/Unleavened Bread was a 7-day period, with Days 1 & 7 declared as Holydays (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/leviticus/passage/?q=leviticus+23:7-8) (ie. Holydays 1 & 2).


Lev 23:7-8 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/leviticus/passage/?q=leviticus+23:7-8)
7 'On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work. 8 'But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the LORD. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.' "

Jesus died on Passover (Day 1). After Jesus died, his body was buried at sunset ending Day 1 for a complete 3 days and nights (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/12-40.html). His resurrection was exactly after that 72 hours, at the beginning of the 5th day of Unleavened, which was at the sunset that ends the 3rd day of burial. (Day 1 = death at 3pm; Days 2,3,4 = 3 days burial; Day 5 = Resurrection day)


Mark 8:31 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/mark/8-31.html)
31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.


I see no Scriptures indicating that Holyday 2 (Day 7) would be fulfilled on Day 5.

Do you?

allodial
04-25-15, 09:32 PM
Where does it say that OT holy days had to be "fulfilled"? Isn't it clear that term 'earth' can mean the local land/estate rather than the entire planet called "Earth"? How does 1 + 3 = 5? The kingdom of is current it is active right now and has been even since the ascension followed by the conferring of a kingdom to Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1). It seems that charlatanous counterfeits have (for thousands of years) set out to deceive people into believing otherwise or even to become part of their counterfeit systems.


I see no modern day "desert miracle" prophesied, as posed by the OT, revealed in this passage.

I would tend to suspect that a 'desert' would be where there would be spiritual dryness rather than a physical desert. A lot of folks seem to forget Isaiah was before the Babylonian Captivity (~745-685BC).

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Its challenging at the least to see much merit in any paradigm that glosses over the significance of Ephesians 1 and the significance of Acts 2 (Pentecost day) or in one that effective supposes Isaiah to have come after the Babylonian Captivity period. Not saying that the one doug555 proposes. The word "america" is already known to have the possible (root) meaning of "kingdom of heaven" (himmelreich+a). In the sense of a local 'earth' meaning, America is not physically a part of the local 'earth' from the perspective of Ancient Sumeria or Palestine--neither were the British Isles ;) which might be why they could become save havens (heavens).

BLBereans
04-25-15, 09:46 PM
I would tend to suspect that a 'desert' would be where there would be spiritual dryness rather than a physical desert. A lot of folks seem to forget Isaiah was pre-exile.

Right. That is why I qualified my statement with "as posed by the OT".

allodial
04-25-15, 10:01 PM
Also, a local earth meaning of 'earth' rather than planet named Earth would mean that a claim or right to Palestine as the local 'earth'/'land' would not necessarily include the Americas or the British Isles. I suspect that among group of islands called "the British Isles" locations were chosen for pre-Roman Catholic and pre-Augustine ecclesia for the key reason that they are not part of that local earth/land even if the contiguous land extended to all of modern continental Europe. On a similar note, how can any Muslim who believes he or she would have some Biblical right to Palestine seriously claim Biblical right to the entire planet called Earth? Earth vs earth syntax games.

The point is: maybe certain landmasses were selected to be intentionally away from the Middle East so that they could serve as safe havens. Perhaps to make people confuse the Planet Earth with the local earth meaning in the Bible (i.e. earth meaning land or earth local to Palestine or Sumeria) --so they simply called everything "Earth" in public schools and hope as many believers and others will be caught in the syntax games headlights rather than seeing the fine distinctions.

doug555
04-25-15, 11:35 PM
Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
I would tend to suspect that a 'desert' would be where there would be spiritual dryness rather than a physical desert. A lot of folks seem to forget Isaiah was pre-exile.


Right. That is why I qualified my statement with "as posed by the OT".

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Would you also "tend to suspect" the allegorical view over a literal view of the Crossing of the Red Sea (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/14.html) account?


Mic 7:15-16 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/micah/passage/?q=micah+7:15-16)
15 "As in the days when you came out from the land of Egypt, I will show you miracles." 16 Nations will see and be ashamed Of all their might. They will put their hand on their mouth, Their ears will be deaf.

The red sea crossing artifacts (https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS633US633&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=red%20sea%20crossing%20artifacts&oq=red%20sea%20crosssing%20&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l5.14703j0j8) links provide probable cause to "tend to suspect" a "literal view".

Notice that the above link also includes websites that claim this evidence is a "hoax". Of course, that can be expected from a worldview that does not want to acknowledge a literal God and personal accountability to same.

This "confusion" is exactly why a literal fulfillment of Holyday 2 is needed... to provide indisputable evidence that these 7 Holydays will be literally fulfilled in order to accomplish the Creator's MASTER PLAN (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-plan/) to transform Man-Kind into members of His own God-Kind Family.



Where does it say that OT holy days had to be "fulfilled"?

Mt 5:17
Acts 3:18
Isa 55:10-11
Acts 1:9-11
Mk 13:24-26
Zech 14:4,9,16-19


Col 2:16-17 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/colossians/passage/?q=colossians+2:16-17)
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day* - 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

* "days" in NAS marginal reference

BLBereans
04-25-15, 11:56 PM
Would you also "tend to suspect" the allegorical view over a literal view of the Crossing of the Red Sea (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/14.html) account?

No.

Neither would I believe that a man will literally move a physical mountain like Mount Everest. The point is to discern when and where allegory is used and when it is not.

Michael Joseph sees allegory EVERYWHERE where you seem to see it rarely if ever. I fall somewhere in the middle, depending upon each instance - a case by case basis.

doug555
04-26-15, 12:09 AM
No.

Neither would I believe that a man will literally move a physical mountain like Mount Everest. The point is to discern when and where allegory is used and when it is not.

Michael Joseph sees allegory EVERYWHERE where you seem to see it rarely if ever. I fall somewhere in the middle, depending upon each instance - a case by case basis.


I certainly do see allegory - the 7 Annual Holydays are allegories and TYPES of what will LITERALLY occur.

I accept allegories that are based on past and future LITERAL EVENTS... that help explain their true significance to us.

Allegories based on IMAGINATION AND SPECULATION are to be "cast down (http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/2-corinthians/10-5.html)".

allodial
04-26-15, 12:11 AM
I would tend to view the Red Sea crossing as a physical event that would serve as a model, type or shadow of things thereafter. As for moving mountains, moving obstacles is likely what moving mountains is a type of. Moving physical mountains is not precluded.

Re: Britain and America
Establishing a church among the British Isles group of islands doesn't make the local culture Christian or believers. However, looking into the history of the Saxon (related to a word having to do with swords or daggers) invasion of those Isles and of their conversion and the conversion of the Picts might be worthwhile.

doug555
04-26-15, 01:45 AM
How does 1 + 3 = 5?

It doesn't.

1 + 3 = 4, which makes Day 5 the day on which the resurrection must occur to fulfill the "3 days and 3 nights" prophecy made by Jesus.

The Feast of Passover is 7 days in duration:

Day 1 = Passover (Holyday 1) Jesus was placed in the tomb just as the sun set (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/passage/?q=matthew+27:57;+luke+23:54) that ended Day 1, during which He died at 3pm (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/23-44.html).
Day 2 = 1st day Jesus in tomb*
Day 3 = 2nd day Jesus in tomb*
Day 4 = 3rd day Jesus in tomb*
Day 5 = Jesus rose from dead (this 'day' begins at the sunset that ends Day 4)
Day 6 = Jesus alive
Day 7 = Last Day of Unleavened Bread (Holyday 2)

* = one of the days of the "3 days and 3 nights" Jesus declared he would be in the grave as proof that He was the Messiah upon His resurrection


I recommend listening to this message (http://www.accog.net/download/mp3/1272-04182015-First%20Day%20Of%20Unleavened%20Bread.mp3) (90 minutes) to see how Passover is Holyday 1.

As the speaker says at the end "How could it NOT be!"

allodial
04-26-15, 02:18 AM
Are you sure that Passover is a single "holy day"? Passover is a period that lasts for 7 (to 8) days. The first and last days of Passover are "days off"--but that is not all to Passover.

The resurrection occurred during the Passover period. The fifth day of Passover is referred to as the third of the intermediate days of Pesach (chol hamoed). All of those days are part of the Passover period the first and last days aren't Passover alone. One might do well to consider the Passover in parallel with the creation days of Genesis. The 4th day is when the light appeared.

That important events will occur during or on feast days makes sense. But throwing out the significance of major events like the resurrection or the ascension and conferring of the kingdom is in conflict with sound scripture.

Re: 1+ 3 != 5
Wouldn't the fourth day of Passover/Pesach be the day the resurrection occurred according to your statements? Didn't the cutting of the first fruits and counting of the Omer commence (and the waiving of the sheaf be done) on that day?

doug555
04-26-15, 03:12 AM
Are you sure that Passover is a single "holy day"? Passover is a period that lasts for 7 (to 8) days. The first and last days of Passover are "days off"--but that is not all to Passover.

The resurrection occurred during the Passover period. The fifth day of Passover is referred to as the third of the intermediate days of Pesach (chol hamoed). All of those days are part of the Passover period the first and last days aren't Passover alone. One might do well to consider the Passover in parallel with the creation days of Genesis. The 4th day is when the light appeared.

That important events will occur during or on feast days makes sense. But throwing out the significance of major events like the resurrection or the ascension and conferring of the kingdom is in conflict with sound scripture.

Re: 1+ 3 != 5
Wouldn't the fourth day of Passover/Pesach be the day the resurrection occurred according to your statements?


The Feast of Passover/Unleavened Bread is only 7 days (http://www.biblestudytools.com/passage/?q=exodus+12:15-16).


Ex 12:15-16 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/passage/?q=exodus+12:15-16)
15 For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel. 16 On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat--that is all you may do.



Days 2-4 = 3 days Jesus in tomb, so Day 4 could NOT be the Resurrection day.

I am not throwing out the Resurrection. I am saying that it happening on Day 5 does NOT fulfill Holyday 2 which, in type, occurs on Day 7 of "Passover period".

The "ascension" does NOT "confer the kingdom". The Apostles were commissioned during that "ascension" event to be witnesses that Holyday 1 was fulfilled.


Acts 1:8 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/1-8.html))
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."


That was their focus.

In fact, they were purposely denied knowledge of when the kingdom would literally be restored.


Acts 1:6-7 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/acts/passage/?q=acts+1:6-7)
6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;


However, by implication, it is for us today to know the "times and epochs"... mainly because we are the generation to fulfill the Spring Harvest Phase (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/holyday-3-the-pentecost-nation/) of the Kingdom of God on earth.

And how can we know that we are being given this knowledge today?

My witness to that is all that I have posted on https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/ (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/)

This is to be our focus TODAY, on Holydays 2 & 3, just as their focus in Acts 1 was to be on Holyday 1, testifying that Jesus fulfilled the Passover on that first day of the Feast of Passover in 30 A.D.

This Petition (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/worldwide-petition-for-divine-intervention/) should be our focus today -- on the last day (Day 7) of the Feast of Passover/Unleavened Bread.

allodial
04-26-15, 03:40 AM
It is widely held that the resurrection occurred on the 3rd or 4th day of Passover. The events would correspond to the year 30 A.D. Nisan 17 (30 AD) would have been the third day of Passover and on the cusp of the Sabbath. When the women visited the tomb they were told by angels that Jesus had risen (early Sunday morning it is supposed). On the same Nissan 17 the Pharisees and the Sadducees were counting the Omer and the Pharisees would have cut the first fruits.

With a crucifixion of Nisan 14 (30 AD) that is about 3 days.

doug555
04-26-15, 05:06 AM
It is widely held that the resurrection occurred on the 4th day of Passover.

Thanks for mentioning this! That makes perfect sense, since the mainstream Jews kept their "Passover" one day late in Jesus time -- on the 15th!

Notice the "Sabbath" mentioned in Lk 23:54 is the one that the occurs on the day AFTER that Passover that the Messiah and the apostles kept the evening of the 14th, the Exodus Passover.


Mt 26:17-20, 26-28; Ex 12:17-18 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/passage/?q=matthew+26:17-20;+matthew+26:26-28;+exodus+12:17-18)
17 Now on ["at the onset of" -OJB] the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?" 18 And He said, "Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, 'The Teacher says, "My time is near; I am to keep the Passover at your house with My disciples."' " 19 The disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover. 20 Now when evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples.

26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

17 'You shall also observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt; therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as a permanent ordinance. 18 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening.

The day of the 14th was what the mainstream Jews at that time were observing as a "preparation day" for an Annual Sabbath.


Lk 23:54 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/23-54.html)
54 It was the preparation day, and the [annual] Sabbath was about to begin.


This "Sabbath" in verse 54 had to be an Annual Holyday Sabbath, because the weekly Sabbath occurred 2 days later, in verse 56.


Lk 23:56 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/23-56.html)
56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the [weekly] Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.



The women prepared spices on the weekly Friday preparation day.

Then, they rested on the weekly Sabbath.

Then, on Sunday, they came to the tomb to apply these spices to the body of Jesus.


Mt 28:1 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/28-1.html)
1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.


So the Jews were keeping the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, one day late -- the day AFTER Jesus died.

I believe they were one day late because of the way Lev 23:6 is worded. I can see how it could be misconstrued.


Lev 23:6 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/leviticus/23-6.html)
6 'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.


But Ex 12:18 clearly shows that unleavened bread was to be be eaten from the 14th until the 21st day at evening.

Notice that this word "until" in Ex 12:18 is the same word used in Ex 12:6.

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 = 7 days of unleavened bread

If the 15th is the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, then there would be only 6 days of unleavened bread.

This same mistake is being made today by both Christians and Jews.

The mistake of not recognizing the 14th as the First Day of Unleavened Bread - Holyday 1, the Passover - is the critical blindspot that is keeping all of mankind in the dark about the entire Holyday MASTER PLAN (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-plan/) that the Creator is following to transform us into God-beings!

All of mankind mistakenly killed the Messiah because they were not focused on Holyday 1 - the Passover.

They were focused on Holyday 4 - and still are to this day!

We all need to correct that mistake NOW - and get with the program - the MASTER PLAN (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/the-plan/) - by focusing on the very next Holyday in that PLAN - Holyday 2 (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/)!

Those worshipping the "Christ" who was raised on the 4th Day of this "Jewish" Passover period are worshipping a false Christ!

My Messiah died on the 14th - NOT the 15th!

My Messiah died on a Wednesday at 3pm on the 14th.

He was in the tomb all Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

At the sunset that ended that Saturday, He rose from the dead.

When Mary came to the tomb on Sunday BEFORE sunrise He was not there.


Jn 20:1 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/john/20-1.html)
1 Now on the first day of the week [Sunday] Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.


Beware! Those worshiping a "Christ" that died on "Good Friday" and rose on "Sunday Morning" at Sunrise are worshiping a false Christ!

Research the "Quartodeciman Controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartodecimanism)" to see how important this issue was in the early church eras, and to confirm that "It is widely held that the resurrection occurred on the 4th day of Passover."

If Satan can get us off just one day, it appears that he can blind us to the entire MASTER PLAN of Our Eternal Father in heaven.

Well, Holyday 2 has been design to break that "trance" and blindness!

For those of us who can see now, it is our job to Petition Our Father (https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/worldwide-petition-for-divine-intervention/) daily until that day comes!

allodial
04-26-15, 05:59 AM
The Sadducees and Jesus and his followers had Passover feast on the Nissan 14. Likely the Essenes had Passover on that day too. The Pharisees had theirs on Nissan 15. The crucifixion could have been on Wednesday or Thursday. The Saducees killed their Pesach lambs on Nissan 13.

3rd or 4th day because of variances.

There is evidence of Passover starting (http://www.franknelte.net/pdf/passover_dates_for_30_ad_and_for_31_ad.pdf) Wednesday, April 5, 30AD (Nisan 14). Molad of Tishri being Sat. September 16 with that day being pronounced the Day of Trumpets. The timing from September 16 with no recorded delays would put Passover 30AD and the crucifixion of Jesus on first Wednesday of April allowing for a resurrection on the following of Saturday. There are many "justifications" for meddling with the truth.

2531


Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

They waited until after the Sabbath. This does not mean that the resurrection occurred on Sunday. It could have occurred on the previous day. It really takes a 'fine eye' and a sense for intentionally introduced errors in support of one errant ideology or another.

2532

Related:

Yeshua's Resurrection When? (http://www.moresureword.com/whenres.htm)
Passover (Dr. Hillel ben David (Greg Killian)) (http://www.betemunah.org/passover.html)
The Crucifixion Date (http://www.truthmagazine.com/archives/volume28/GOT028159.html)
The Hebrew Calendar Points to the Year of the Death of Christ (http://www.marieslibrary.com/PDF_Articles/JesusDiedHebrewCalendar.pdf)
The Calendar of Christ and the Apostles (http://www.multifaiths.com/pdf/calofchristpart1revised.pdf)

doug555
04-26-15, 06:08 AM
The Sadducees and Jesus and his followers had Passover feast on the Nissan 14. Likely the Essenes had Passover on that day too. The Pharisees had theirs on Nissan 15. The crucifixion would likely have been a Thursday afternoon from what I have gathered.

Then how do you get a full "3 days and 3 nights" in the tomb from Thursday afternoon to the tomb being empty BEFORE sunrise on Sunday (Jn 20:1)?


Jn 20:1 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/john/20-1.html)
1 Now on the first day of the week [Sunday] Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

allodial
04-26-15, 07:13 AM
Wednesday or Thursday
This is about an event that occurred over two thousand years ago not five days ago and with heaps of attempts to modify, manipulate and explain away the facts. Not to mention leap years and calendar modifications. The discrepancy and variance of the crucifixion being Wednesday or Thursday or even Tuesday or Wednesday is because the Hebrew calendar is evening to evening rather than midnight to midnight and computer programs that "shifted" Passover start days without good reason. Evening to evening days on the Hebrew calendar corresponds to halfs of two separate days in the Roman/Gregorian calendar. See above. (Also where one might say 3790 another puts 3791.)

Clearly, having the importance of precision at heart, see above. Fortunately you now have lots of reference materials from which to glean insight. So getting to the nitty gritty, we could conceivably narrow down to a Wednesday crucifixion rather than a Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion with the prospect of a Saturday resurrection.


Then how do you get a full "3 days and 3 nights" in the tomb from Thursday afternoon to the tomb being empty BEFORE sunrise on Sunday (Jn 20:1)?

See above its Wednesday or Thursday. Its not really about "how I" do this or that. Its about facts which I am unaware of inventing. Keep in mind that nowhere along this thread am I selling books or promoting my own theories. A better question might be how do you come to the conclusion of the resurrection not having been on Saturday or not on the Sabbath? Afterall, you seem to be asserting that the resurrection not being on a Sabbath being key to your viewpoints then seem to want to question me for seeming to agree with you.


Now on the first day of the week [Sunday] Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

Perhaps see above (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1535-The-Year&p=17600&viewfull=1#post17600). There is a Wednesday Passover camp and a Thursday Passover camp. Thursday seems to be based on software-introduced errors. So basing on September 16 Day of Trumpets without postponements: Wednesday seems to be it.

doug555
04-26-15, 01:22 PM
Wednesday or Thursday
This is about an event that occurred over two thousand years ago not five days ago and with heaps of attempts to modify, manipulate and explain away the facts. Not to mention leap years and calendar modifications. The discrepancy and variance of the crucifixion being Wednesday or Thursday or even Tuesday or Wednesday is because the Hebrew calendar is evening to evening rather than midnight to midnight and computer programs that "shifted" Passover start days without good reason. Evening to evening days on the Hebrew calendar corresponds to halfs of two separate days in the Roman/Gregorian calendar. See above. (Also where one might say 3790 another puts 3791.)

Clearly, having the importance of precision at heart, see above. Fortunately you now have lots of reference materials from which to glean insight. So getting to the nitty gritty, we could conceivably narrow down to a Wednesday crucifixion rather than a Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion with the prospect of a Saturday resurrection.



See above its Wednesday or Thursday. Its not really about "how I" do this or that. Its about facts which I am unaware of inventing. Keep in mind that nowhere along this thread am I selling books or promoting my own theories. A better question might be how do you come to the conclusion of the resurrection not having been on Saturday or not on the Sabbath? Afterall, you seem to be asserting that the resurrection not being on a Sabbath being key to your viewpoints then seem to want to question me for seeming to agree with you.



Perhaps see above (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1535-The-Year&p=17600&viewfull=1#post17600). There is a Wednesday Passover camp and a Thursday Passover camp. Thursday seems to be based on software-introduced errors. So basing on September 16 Day of Trumpets without postponements: Wednesday seems to be it.

Great! The calendars you posted illustrate the discrepancy perfectly! Thanks for posting these!!

It clearly shows the Thursday crucifixion camp as being one day late, BECAUSE they start "Passover" on the 15th, which is in clear violation of the instructions in Exodus 12 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/passage/?q=exodus+12:6;+exodus+12:11-13;+exodus+12:17-19) which states the Passover begins "at twilight" (between the two evenings) on the evening of the 14th, which is the period of time between the sunset that ends the day portion of the 13th and the dark of night of the 14th.


I do know that the Biblical days start at sunset, as Genesis defines a day as "evening and morning" as in Gen 1:5 (5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.) where it says "And there was evening and morning, one day".

So at Wednesday sunset Jesus was in tomb, since He and that camp kept Nisan 14 as Passover.

So, being in the earth/tomb exactly 3 days (3 nights and 3 days) from there leaves us at Saturday sunset.

So Jesus rose at the sunset that ended the day portion of Saturday. The sunset that begins Sunday per "evening and morning" definition.

These are FACTS. Simple math. Not theories.

And why is this so important to know and keep the exact right day?

Because Jesus commands us to observe that exact day (which starts with His newly-instituted Passover evening ceremony) in remembrance of Him (Lk 22:19; 1Cor 11:23-26).

And because of the LAW and TYPE set in Exodus 12, which Christ fulfilled by keeping the 14th.

If the Israelites back then had been one day late, all of their firstborn would have been killed too.

So, then, what will happen to us, as the spiritual "firstborn", if we are one day late in keeping the Exodus Passover of the 14th?

Notice that there is no reference in Exodus 12 to keep a day that corresponds to the Resurrection during the 7-day Feast period -- only to the Passover day (14th).

Neither is there any holyday established in the New Testament to keep the Resurrection day, Sunday.

Where did this shift in focus from the Passover Day to the Resurrection Day come from?

Is it not from the same source that shifted the observance of the Sabbath from Saturday (7th day) to Sunday (1st day)?

So, my conclusion is really in agreement with you now.

The Passover "evening and morning" in 30 A.D. was on Wednesday, Nisan 14.

Jesus Christ kept the Passover service on the evening portion of the 14th, at twilight.

Then, during the daylight (morning) portion of the 14th, at the 9th hour (3pm), Jesus died from the crucifixion.

It had to be Wednesday because one cannot fit in "3 days and 3 nights in the earth/tomb" (Mt 12:40) if it was Thursday, since the tomb was empty BEFORE sunrise on Sunday (Mt 28:1).

BTW: I am not selling anything either, including theories.

I believe that both of us are sincerely trying to discover and share the truth, and I am very grateful for your contributions and the time you have taken, especially in providing these calendars and links. It makes it much clearer for me to see this issue in diagram form.

Please don't mistake my zeal as argument. These issues that we are discussing here are very important "matters of consequence", IMO.

I respect your personal beliefs, and apologize for any "arguing" that is being felt and that I am projecting.

And I sincerely thank you for your insightful and factual contributions. They have truly helped me and do encourage me.

doug555
04-26-15, 02:24 PM
Now... to get back to the original issue that BLBereans raised, about the "Resurrection Day" fulfilling Holyday 2 (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1535-The-Year&p=17581&viewfull=1#post17581):

The Resurrection Day, as it turns out, using the calendar at the top of allodial's post #post17600 (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1535-The-Year&p=17600&viewfull=1#post17600), actually did occur on a Biblical Sunday, at the sunset that ended that Saturday in 30 A.D., Nisan 17/April 6, and began that next day, Sunday.

However, this Sunday Resurrection event, that occurred on Day 5 (Sunday, Nisan 18/April 7) of the Exodus Passover period starting on Nisan 14, still does not answer question at the end of #post17852 (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1535-The-Year&p=17582&viewfull=1#post17582):


I see no Scriptures indicating that Holyday 2 (Day 7) would be fulfilled on Day 5.

Do you?

So, then, it remains that Holyday 2 is yet to be fulfilled, and, therefore, consequently, so is Holyday 3 yet a future event.

And that is the point of this topic: The Favorable Year (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1535-The-Year&p=17467&viewfull=1#post17467) of the Lord is YET TO OCCUR.

BLBereans
04-26-15, 05:17 PM
Perhaps your argument that Day 7 of unleavened bread is a High Holy, or Feast, Day is incorrect:

Numbers 28 - The Passover

16 On the fourteenth day of the first month the Lord’s Passover is to be held.
17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast.
18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.

25 On the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.

Perhaps the first day indicated is the only "Feast Day" during the seven day period. There are Sabbath days and High Sabbath (High Holy or Feast) days. Perhaps the latter is only a Sabbath day.

That would mean the first day of unleavened bread is Holy Day 1 (Day after Jesus' death/sacrifice)

The Feast of First Fruits is Holy Day 2 (Day that Jesus rose from the dead)

The Feast of Weeks/Pentecost is Holy Day 3 (event of Acts 2 - 50 days after resurrection )

These are all significant events which have coinciding and symbolic relationships to OT events and prophecy.

doug555
04-26-15, 06:50 PM
Yes, I see your point...

Num 28:17 corresponds exactly to Lev 23:6.

Both say unleavened bread is eaten for 7 days. Both say it is the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

But notice that is does NOT say "the 15th is the first day of the feast of unleavened bread".

Then we also see that Lev 23:6 and 7 both use the term "holy convocation" to set Day 1 and Day 7 apart from the other 5 Feast Days.

So, if one is a holyday (Day 1), then the other must be too (Day 7).

Now, notice that all seven days are Feast Days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

The 14th is the Feast of of Unleavened Bread (and also is a "holy convocation" day, Holyday 1).
The 15th is the Feast of of Unleavened Bread.
But the 16th is also the Feast of of Unleavened Bread.
So is the 17th, 18th, 19th and the 20th (which also is a "holy convocation" day, Holyday 2).

Notice that the seven days of unleavened bread continues from the 14th until the 21st day, according to Ex 12:18 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/12-18.html) (not according "my argument").


18 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening.

Notice that the word "until" here must mean "not including", just as it also does in Ex 12:6 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/12-6.html).


6 'You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight.

This "interpretation" resolves the apparent contradiction in the Scriptures, for me, that seems to indicate that the 15th is the first day of unleavened bread in Lev 23:6 and Num 28:17, which would only account for 6 days of unleavened bread that must end at the start/evening of the 21st day of Nisan, and so not including the 21st.

But you are right about the Resurrection Day being significant. It is celebrated in the OT on what is called the "Wave Sheaf Offering" day (Lev 23:11 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/leviticus/23-11.html)), which is performed on "the morrow after the Sabbath", which is Sunday.

This coincides exactly with the literal day, Sunday, Nisan 18/April 7, Day 5 of the Feast, on which Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, and was presented to the Father in heaven for formal acceptance and recognition of His sacrifice and becoming the First of the Firstfruits.

But again, Day 5, the Wave Sheaf Day, symbolizing the Resurrection and Acceptance in Heaven event (Jn 20:1, 1) is NOT Day 7, the "Holy Convocation" Day, Holyday 2.

We cannot force the Wave Sheaf Day 5 to be the same as the Last Day of Unleavened Bread Day 7.

These are 2 separate days, indicating 2 separate events that are very significant.

So thank you for forcing me to delve into this more thoroughly. I genuinely appreciate your viewpoints and concerns to not miss the significance of the Lord's Resurrection.

Let's keep at this... I do not want to be brainwashing myself anymore than you would want to brainwash yourself.

I want the truth... and Jesus promised we can know it in Jn 16:13 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/john/16-13.html).


13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

BLBereans
04-26-15, 07:42 PM
2535

Perhaps it is two (2) '72 hour right of refusal' periods taking place:

The first 72 hours were for God to accept the value of the sacrifice and the last 72 hours were for Satan to reject the paid ransom.

If Jesus was in the tomb by sunset Wednesday night, then his resurrection would be sunset Saturday night (72 hours and God approves)

Counting further; 72 hours more puts us at the last day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, Day 7 (72 hours and Satan cannot rightfully reject)

The 7th Day is the SETTLEMENT Day where the 'payment of debt' was FINALIZED and stands forever as a DONE DEAL.

If that is the case, then that would be your 'desert miracle'; the dryness of man's soul and spirit becomes 'an oasis of righteousness' through the redemptive work of Christ.

That would put the event of Acts 2 as the actual 'Pentecost' where the Holy Spirit descends, indwells and empowers those believers with abilities never before done, known or seen.

allodial
04-26-15, 08:02 PM
Before the sacrifice, the Pesach lambs are selected. Which means they are looked over/inspected for suitability. So it would make sense to include that period offer and acceptance period. Once they chose him to be stoned or crucified....

A while back I did an analysis of the 7 day week, and gained a reasonable insight into how it could be constructed of a two seventy-two hour periods plus a day. I considered Daniel's -> a time, times and an half on the basis of 1 day being 'a time' + 2 days being 'times' + 1/2 a day being 'an half' => 3 + 1/2 x 2 = 7 days or (7 times total) gives a full week. Two 72 hour periods with a 1 day buffer in between makes for a full week. So its interesting to consider a week as consisting of two 72-hour periods + two half-days.

It might also be worth considering the number of days from the resurrection to Pentecost. Something like Ascension occurring 40 days (thirteen 72-hour periods) after resurrection and the enduing with power 9 days (three 72-hour periods) after the ascension--that would be 49 days or 7 x 7 (seven weeks).

Jubilee is key.

2536

As to acceptance and such, the process of creation seems to entail first coming to specifics about what is to be created (specifications, blueprints, functional design, etc.). So once that is agreed upon then creation can be begin. But it takes FAITH as substance to bring the conceptual forth into physical manifestation. After the manifestation thereof, then inspection...acceptance. If something doesn't come out right, we tend to scrap it and start over. Judgment seems to be associated with scrapping/destruction of the errant product. Salvation seems to be associated with approval of the product. All creation process have a harvest type. Babies have a 9 month period from planting to 'harvest'. (see Luke 1:23-38 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+1%3A26-38&version=KJV)) Jesus wasn't identified as the called-for Messiah until a certain point.

It is said that Jesus was presented as the lamb on Nissan 10 (30AD) (Luke 20:1 – 22:6) with entry on the foal on Nissan 10 and that on Nissan 11 he was presented as Messiah Priest. Three days later would be Nissan 14. Three days dead/entombed through to Nissan 17.

One key thing is that the Pharisees would have had to have known who he is (likewise the Romans).

allodial
04-26-15, 09:51 PM
The rule is that if the previous day is a Sabbath then the counting and cutting of the first fruits is on the Sunday following. That keeps it within the requirement--the preceding Sabbath allows for an exception. Resurrection could have occurred between 3pm and sunset Saturday.

Nisan 17:
* Saturday evening - Cutting and counting of first fruits (Sadducees and Pharisees)
* Sunday morning - waiving of the sheaf; tomb visitations; post-resurrection appearances of Jesus

Since the previous day was a Sabbath, the cutting and counting of the first fruits would have been done on Nisan 17 (being Saturday evening through Sunday evening). I find it best to think in terms of evening to evening and THEN translate that into "Roman days".

doug555
04-26-15, 10:28 PM
Yes, I see your point...

Num 28:17 corresponds exactly to Lev 23:6.

Both say unleavened bread is eaten for 7 days. Both say it is the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

But notice that is does NOT say "the 15th is the first day of the feast of unleavened bread".

Then we also see that Lev 23:6 and 7 both use the term "holy convocation" to set Day 1 and Day 7 apart from the other 5 Feast Days.

So, if one is a holyday (Day 1), then the other must be too (Day 7).

Now, notice that all seven days are Feast Days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

The 14th is the Feast of of Unleavened Bread (and also is a "holy convocation" day, Holyday 1).
The 15th is the Feast of of Unleavened Bread.
But the 16th is also the Feast of of Unleavened Bread.
So is the 17th, 18th, 19th and the 20th (which also is a "holy convocation" day, Holyday 2).

Notice that the seven days of unleavened bread continues from the 14th until the 21st day, according to Ex 12:18 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/12-18.html) (not according "my argument").



Notice that the word "until" here must mean "not including", just as it also does in Ex 12:6 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/12-6.html).



This "interpretation" resolves the apparent contradiction in the Scriptures, for me, that seems to indicate that the 15th is the first day of unleavened bread in Lev 23:6 and Num 28:17, which would only account for 6 days of unleavened bread that must end at the start/evening of the 21st day of Nisan, and so not including the 21st.

But you are right about the Resurrection Day being significant. It is celebrated in the OT on what is called the "Wave Sheaf Offering" day (Lev 23:11 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/leviticus/23-11.html)), which is performed on "the morrow after the Sabbath", which is Sunday.

This coincides exactly with the literal day, Sunday, Nisan 18/April 7, Day 5 of the Feast, on which Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, and was presented to the Father in heaven for formal acceptance and recognition of His sacrifice and becoming the First of the Firstfruits.

But again, Day 5, the Wave Sheaf Day, symbolizing the Resurrection and Acceptance in Heaven event (Jn 20:1, 1) is NOT Day 7, the "Holy Convocation" Day, Holyday 2.

We cannot force the Wave Sheaf Day 5 to be the same as the Last Day of Unleavened Bread Day 7.

These are 2 separate days, indicating 2 separate events that are very significant.

So thank you for forcing me to delve into this more thoroughly. I genuinely appreciate your viewpoints and concerns to not miss the significance of the Lord's Resurrection.

Let's keep at this... I do not want to be brainwashing myself anymore than you would want to brainwash yourself.

I want the truth... and Jesus promised we can know it in Jn 16:13 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/john/16-13.html).

CORRECTION TO ABOVE:

The above is true only if the year 30 A.D. is used as the basis or TYPE for the fulfillment of the remaining holydays.

There is no Scripture that I know of that declares that to be the case.

In actuality, since the New Moon can happen on any of the Gregorian weekdays, then it follows that the 7th Day of UB could likewise happen on any weekday.

So, when the 14th occurs on a Monday, making the weekly Sabbath the 6th day, then the Wave Sheaf can be waved on the very next day which is Sunday, which does occur on the 7th day of UB.

So, the Wave Sheaf can coincide with the 7th day of UB. It just did NOT coincide in the year 30 A.D. when Jesus Christ died.

Sorry for any confusion...

But since most of the time it does NOT coincide with the 7th day, there is still probable cause to believe that the Wave Sheaf Day and Holyday 2 are two separate events.

allodial
04-26-15, 11:00 PM
Would it not ring true that the waiving or cutting would never be on the Sabbath although the wheat would still continue to grow all day, all week?

doug555
04-26-15, 11:35 PM
Would it not ring true that the waiving or cutting would never be on the Sabbath although the wheat would still continue to grow all day, all week?

Yes, it does. Thanks for that!

Also, I am thinking that the Creator purposely wants the count to Pentecost (50) to always begin on a Sunday in order to reinforce the concept and message of 3 complete literal historical weeks of Days 1 -7 that will be fulfilled, as encouragement that a literal historical 50th Day Pentecost Jubilee will also be fulfilled literally on a Sunday sometime in the future.


Sorry.. I should have clarified my last sentence in previous post. See correction in underline below:


But since most of the time it does NOT coincide with the 7th day, there is still probable cause to believe that the Wave Sheaf Day and Holyday 2 are two separate events.



Also, it is encouraging to know that 2 literal events did occur in 30 A.D. (the Passover and the Wave Sheaf), which then gives us probably cause from 2 witnesses that Holyday 2, as a subsequent and 3rd separate event, will also be a literal historical event.

allodial
04-27-15, 02:10 AM
I suspect more was fulfilled in 30AD that meets the eye. What some might call a "mistake" might just be an intentional concealment of facts. Consider Pentecost day in Acts 2 (30 AD) in view of bush or tree on fire that did not burn, men like trees walking, burnt offering (that did not burn). Among other things, the shofar is used to herald the presence of a king, the blower is always present.

Passover was and is about judgment and escape or exemption from judgment. Pentecost is another matter. At the end of the Passover is said to be the Feast of Firstfruits (beginning of barley harvest). Pentecost is said to be the Feast of Harvest (or Feast of Weeks)--beginning of the wheat harvest. The 49 days from Feast of First Fruits is said to be a "week of weeks".

Re: 30 AD vs 33 AD
Of course there are variations as to what year. For me it has come down to 30 AD or 33 AD ...30 AD seems most plausible except there are those who hold 30AD to be 3+ years short of Daniel's 490 years. Alterations and mistakes with respect to the Gregorian calendar system is worth considering since the current calendar is said to be a bit off. Some say the calendar is off 4 to 6 years (re: Herod's death).


Paul mentions that Barnabas and Titus went with him to Jerusalem 14 years after his conversion (Gal.2:1). This could only be the trip that he took to Jerusalem with food supplies and money that is mentioned in Acts 11:30.

While Paul, Barnabas, and Titus were at Jerusalem, King Herod Agrippa died. His death is well documented to have occurred in 44 A.D.. If we subtract 14 years from 44 A.D., it brings us to 30 A.D., which is the year of Paul's conversion (Acts 9:1-22), as well as the year of Jesus' death.

Agrippa who was a friend of Caligula, the Emperor of Rome, was made king of the Tetrarchy of his uncle Philip Techoritis and the Tetrarchy of Lysanias (Abla) a few days after Caligula's ascension to power in March of 37 A.D.. Agrippa went to his lands in 39 A.D., but almost immediately returned to Rome to bring accusations against his uncle Antipas to Caligula in 39 A.D..

Upon the assassination of Caligula on January 24, 41 A.D., Agrippa encouraged Claudius to accept the rulership of the Empire. Very early in his reign, in February or March, Claudius confirmed to Agrippa all the gifts of land Caligula had made to him and added to them the rest of the kingdom of Herod the Great.

Josephus says that, after having reigned for 3 years (41-44 A.D.), Agrippa died (Antiquities XIX 8.2). Agrippa's death is also described in Acts 12:21-23. (Source)

2537

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Related:

The 70-Week Prophecy - Past and Future Fulfillment (http://www.bibleresearch.org/articles/a3pws.htm)
April 3, AD 33 (http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2014/04/april-3-ad-33)
7 Clues Tell Us *Precisely* When Jesus Died (the year, month, day, and hour revealed) (http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/when-precisely-did-jesus-die-the-year-month-day-and-hour-revealed/)

BLBereans
05-10-15, 04:20 PM
Here is an interesting commentary regarding Isaiah 55:

An Everlasting Sign (http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/Articles/isaiah_55.htm)