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george
10-11-15, 10:56 PM
hi everyone,

this is a video I found while searching melchezidek on GLP, Ive seen this mans videos before but not too familiar with him. the reason I wanted to share it here is a syncronistic one because he touches on several things that have been discussed here recently.

he says abram lies about sara being his sister and sara was actually his wife. David has been writing about this guilt thing from incest about this but if sara was arbrams wife then that (incest/guilt) doesnt fit.


he also talks about the literal vs allegorical interpretations and shows how the bible has mistake written in so that a keen reader can identify mistakes and in that way realize it is to be taken allegorically instead of literally.

he provides several references to scriptures about these things too.


might be worth a look and some discussion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dH2bWKPoS_U

anyone here more fami8liar with this man in the video?

allodial
10-11-15, 11:30 PM
The Abraham and Sarah story match Ancient (Old Dynasty) Egyptian historical customs very well. Abraham was more than likely royalty (his father was high level in his society). Abraham being royalty is perhaps why the Pharaoh showed him respect. It might be that many of those trying to rip out the significance of the Bible have something sinister in store for mankind, though they pretend to be 'angels of light'.

The guy over at Bet Emet Ministries (http://theancientsacredmysteries.com/three_attempts_coverup_truth_about_sarah.htm) has far more interesting things to say IMHO (especially because he proves the historicity and gets into nuances of Ancient Egyptian history though he IMHO goes too too far and his words are often 'packed' or 'loaded') although from what I gather he is off in timings and seems fixated on telling his own story. He ignores the evidence of Imhotep (even Hollywood probably knows Imhotep is Joseph (http://www.omgfacts.com/health/9139/The-real-life-Imhotep-from-The-Mummy-was-actually-highly-respected-and-is-credited-as-the-founder-of-medicine-ab964-4) and they made a movie to slander or obscure the the truth). (From what I recall he is convinced of Yuya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuya)being Joseph rather than Imhotep. That kind of thing helps missive theories seem kosher and compresses time far too much.) In other words, the Bible the Israelites took Joseph's body from where it was kept. To this very day Imhotep's body is missing from the place it was supposed to be (http://www.odysseyadventures.ca/articles/saqqara/saqqara_text.htm). They know so very well they made a horror film about Imhotep (the missing mummy body).


3051
From Genesis 50, ESV.

3052
From Exodus 13, ESV.

For fun, ask the guy to prove that Abraham and Sarah would have had a reason to feel guilty? Does the Mosaic law regard marriage between half brother and half sister to be incest? Why would Abraham feel guilty of Mosaic law when the Mosaic covenant was yet given? So he is holding Abraham guilty ex post facto? Abraham was not an Israelite! Nor was he of the house of Judah. Judah was yet born.

What they are doing is like someone in the USA reading the Bible about Abraham traveling in a chariot at the speed of 80 MPH and then looking at their own local speed limit (thousands of years later) at this time and coming to the conclusion that Abraham should have felt guilty because the speed limit is clearly 65 (i.e. projecting the laws of a U.S. State municipality onto Abraham. Oh boy.)


Abraham said, “I did it because I thought, ‘There is no fear of God at all in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.’ Besides, she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father though not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife.

http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2734&d=1438124794

P.S. In Egyptian, Abraham would be Mayebre or Mamayebra. Once you dig far enough into Egyptology you might find that most of the lies told are to told to prevent people from seeing that the Bible is relating historical fact. Furthermore, when one regards all of the area from Ethiopia to Egypt to the Indus Valley to have been touched by the same religions beliefs (if you study deep enough the SE Asian martial arts the trail will lead back to the Indus Valley and eventually back to Egypt and Ethiopia...it is said that Egypt and India were provinces of Ethiopia), then it becomes clear why Sarah and Abraham were even known of in Ancient Hindu culture. To say that they never existed is going to be a challenge to prove up against the mighty mountains of historical evidence.

Also, on the note of incest, if marrying a half sister would only serve to amplify sinful nature you definitely would want to prohibit that, wouldn't you?

Also, equating Joseph with Yuya might be a way of "robbing the clock". By "robbing the clock" of a few thousand years (Djoser is said to have reigned around 2600BC as opposed to Yuya at 1350 BC), the calculations for Daniel's prophecy would be thrown off in favor of futurists and Jesus-deniers so that the timings would fail to fit perfectly with Jesus Christ's birth around 0AD.

It might also be worth noting that the corrupted Egyptian systems came to hate Moses and his God and that hatred may have found its way into those Mystery Schools that follow after the post-Mosaic mystery schools of Egypt.

Related:

Abraham Son of A Sumerian Oracle Priest (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1491-Abraham-Son-of-A-Sumerian-Oracle-Priest)
Meet Joseph aka Imhotep (under Djoser's Reign) (http://http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1685-Meet-Joseph-aka-Imhotep-(under-Djoser-s-Reign))
Was Abraham A Pharoah of Egypt? (http://egyptianchristianity.com/was_abraham_pharaoh_egypt.htm)
The Real Life Imhotep from “The Mummy” Was Actually Highly Respected and Is Credited As the Founder of Medicine (http://www.omgfacts.com/health/9139/The-real-life-Imhotep-from-The-Mummy-was-actually-highly-respected-and-is-credited-as-the-founder-of-medicine-ab964-4)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV04chNHt9k

xparte
10-12-15, 01:19 AM
EGYPT, was the first world power of Bible history. Under its shadow the nation of Israel was formed. Moses, who penned the first five books of the Bible, was born and educated in Egypt. Do secular history and archaeology corroborate what Moses wrote about that ancient land? Nothing more convincingly proves the intimate knowledge of things Egyptian in the Old Testament, and the reliability of the writers, than the use of the word Pharaoh at different periods.Clearly, Moses was a meticulous chronicler. The same can be said of other Bible writers who documented events relating to ancient Egypt. Clearly, the Bible writers did not pen fiction. Recognizing their accountability to God, they wrote truth, even when doing so was unflattering—as in the case of Shishak’s victories in Judah. Such candor contrasts sharply with the varnished, exaggerated chronicles of the ancient Egyptian scribes, who refused to record anything that might be uncomplimentary to their rulers or people. The Hebrew peoples of Egypt left the book of the dead for a better book .
In 1896 in an Egyptian funerary temple, archaeologists found what has been called the Merneptah Stela. This black granite pillar boasts of the achievements of Egyptian King Merneptah, believed to have reigned in the late 13th century B.C.E. Inscribed on the stela is a hymn, which reads, in part: “Israel is laid waste, his seed is no more.” This is the only known reference to Israel in ancient Egyptian texts and the earliest reference outside the Bible.

The stela was made during the Biblical period of the Judges, an era documented in the Bible book of that name. However, unlike the self-applauding chronicles of the Pharaohs, the book of Judges sets out both the exploits and the failures of Israel. Concerning the failures, Judges 2:11, 12 states: “The sons of Israel fell to doing what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah and serving the Baals [Canaanite gods]. Thus they abandoned Jehovah . . . , who had brought them out of the land of Egypt.” Such candor characterizes the entire Bible. The Bible was written over a period of some 1,600 years. Its history and prophecy are linked to seven world powers: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and Anglo-America. Our candor continues great post lodi I see how Egypt has influenced the rest of these powers.

allodial
10-12-15, 01:50 AM
EGYPT, was the first world power of Bible history.

Egypt or Het-ka-Ptah or "House of the Soul of Ptah"...House of the Soul of the Father/Potter?

Related:

The Memphite Theology (http://www.kheper.net/topics/Egypt/Memphis.html)
Genesis 1-2 In Light Of Ancient Egyptian Creation Myths (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1708-Genesis-1-2-In-Light-Of-Ancient-Egyptian-Creation-Myths)

Michael Joseph
10-12-15, 02:24 AM
hi everyone,

this is a video I found while searching melchezidek on GLP, Ive seen this mans videos before but not too familiar with him. the reason I wanted to share it here is a syncronistic one because he touches on several things that have been discussed here recently.

he says abram lies about sara being his sister and sara was actually his wife. David has been writing about this guilt thing from incest about this but if sara was arbrams wife then that (incest/guilt) doesnt fit.


he also talks about the literal vs allegorical interpretations and shows how the bible has mistake written in so that a keen reader can identify mistakes and in that way realize it is to be taken allegorically instead of literally.

he provides several references to scriptures about these things too.


might be worth a look and some discussion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dH2bWKPoS_U

anyone here more fami8liar with this man in the video?

Bill Donahue is a fantastic teacher. Consider for a moment why is it so important that this man and woman lived? If Christ who is paramount is to be formed in man[kind] then the Scripture is clearly talking about a metaphysical forming. Therefore, while at Galations the Scripture clearly says these things are allegories...that does not mean these folks did not exist. But then it does not mean they existed either.

The question in my mind is why does it matter? Consider the "seat of the soul" is the Pineal in man. Clearly this is a physical application - The Way - which activates this Pine Cone such that the sand becomes rock. Another way to look at it, in my point of view only, is to say I too was once a thought being. In the beginning was The Word and The Word was with God and The Word was God. And The Word became flesh. I find myself in flesh.

If you enjoy Bill Donahue, then you will enjoy Joel Goldsmith. Click Here for an example teaching. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ_esrTrMrU)

As with all things, weigh them in the balance of your mind.

If you want to learn a tremendous amount on Melchizedek,this site - Click Here (http://dayspringfromonhigh.com/) - may be a help to you. I was amazed how I had read and studied Scripture but that there are levels of understanding. The depth of the Scriptures regarding Wisdom is truly amazing.

Shalom,
MJ

allodial
10-12-15, 03:14 AM
The OT personalities acted out things that we can look back upon and analyze as types and shadows of things to come or things which have already come. Much like a teenager passes through puberty is like crossing a threshold and the same with a making a marriage bond, the very rites of passage aren't necessarily diminished because they have a higher meaning associated with them.

As for Melchizedek, there are quite a few who have made a link between Melchizedek and Krishna. Of course, there are those who point to Shem.

Abraham having been called out was clearly learning more richly what and who he had become. The Sarah and Hagar paradigm is still carried on in the prohibition of saints marrying non-believers. Allegorical does not make something fictional.

xparte
10-12-15, 04:59 AM
If Adam was made out of clay God being the only Potter. Memphis and Thebes. Memphis, or Noph, was once a prominent commercial, political, and religious center. Yet, God said: “Noph itself will become a mere object of astonishment and will actually be set afire, so as to be without an inhabitant.” (Jeremiah 46:19) And so it turned out. The book In the Steps of Moses the Lawgiver says that “the titanic ruins of Memphis” were pillaged by Arab conquerors, who used them as a quarry. It adds that today “within the circuit of the ancient city not a stone protrudes above the black soil.Thebes, earlier called No-amon or just No, suffered a similar fate, along with its impotent gods. Concerning this onetime capital of Egypt and principal center of the worship of the god Amon, Jehovah said: “Here I am turning my attention upon Amon . . . and upon Pharaoh and upon Egypt and upon her gods . . . And I will give them into . . . the hand of Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon.” (Jeremiah 46:25, 26) As prophesied, the Babylonian monarch conquered Egypt and its prominent city of No-amon. Then, after Persian ruler Cambyses II dealt another blow to the city in 525 B.C.E., it steadily declined, finally being completely ruined by the Romans. Yes, accurate prophecy puts the Bible in a class of its own, giving us confidence in what it says about our future.The library at Alexander was destroyed for its Biblical intolerance or a prophetic destiny not mentioned historically.

David Merrill
10-12-15, 01:17 PM
hi everyone,

this is a video I found while searching melchezidek on GLP, Ive seen this mans videos before but not too familiar with him. the reason I wanted to share it here is a syncronistic one because he touches on several things that have been discussed here recently.

he says abram lies about sara being his sister and sara was actually his wife. David has been writing about this guilt thing from incest about this but if sara was arbrams wife then that (incest/guilt) doesnt fit.


he also talks about the literal vs allegorical interpretations and shows how the bible has mistake written in so that a keen reader can identify mistakes and in that way realize it is to be taken allegorically instead of literally.

he provides several references to scriptures about these things too.


might be worth a look and some discussion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dH2bWKPoS_U

anyone here more fami8liar with this man in the video?

It is of course my opinion but after spending some time reading the scripture itself and then going over some commentary too. For me, it certainly fits that Abraham is riddled with guilt rather than God being so insecure about Abraham's faith as to be ordering the pubescent Isaac slaughtered like a sacrificial lamb. It explains quite a bit more in that Isaac was reaching puberty, the point in life where he might begin procreating and reproducing the abomination of the incest. Plus Abraham's guilt would be compounded by his allowing Sarah to drive Hagar from the home and to her death by dehydration. - Ishmael, Abraham's genetically sound son survived to sire twelve Arab nations, all of which seem to be holding an inherent grudge against Israel to the day...

In my opinion, Moses is more likely an allegorical figure than Abraham. Sargon would be the origin of the metaphor about surviving in a pitched basket and then rescued from the river to become a leader.


The Gospel of Thomas - Opening Lines:




The Gospel of Thomas

These are the secret words which the Living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas wrote.


And He said: Whoever finds the explanation of these words will not taste death. Jesus said: Let him who seeks, not cease seeking until he finds, and when he finds, he will be troubled, and when he has been troubled, he will marvel and he will reign over the All. "Jesus said: If those who lead you say to you: "See, the Kingdom is in heaven", then the birds of the heaven will precede you. If they say to you: "It is in the sea", then the fish will precede you. But the Kingdom is within you and it is without you. If you will know yourselves, then you will be known and you will know that you are the sons of the Living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty and you are poverty.



For fun, ask the guy to prove that Abraham and Sarah would have had a reason to feel guilty? Does the Mosaic law regard marriage between half brother and half sister to be incest?

Yes. The Levitical laws do. The laws about marriage say that the closest man and wife may be is cousins and that is why so many theologians resort to the euphemism that half-sister means cousins, Sarah being the daughter of Lot. The premise is that no body of law can be permanent if it does not agree with natural law.

xparte
10-12-15, 02:58 PM
Abraham being the father of all Nations. Allegorical speaking too form Royal Bloodlines with incestuous relations is not the service of God. Two seeds one has zero guilt one has too accept guilt building guilt and unbuilding guilt, Abraham reaps what he alone has sewn.

David Merrill
10-12-15, 03:56 PM
wo seeds one has zero guilt one has to(o) accept guilt building guilt and unbuilding guilt


I have not used that wording before. I like it. Building and unbuilding guilt!

I think I have been calling it commercial priestcraft. Thank you more than I can express for a simpler language!

In Jubilee
10-12-15, 11:20 PM
In this video about demigods and demons, did Bill say "I'm not allowed to tell you about that"? this is at to 20 sec mark. If so, who is not allowing him to tell us about demons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb-oAykZmfk

David Merrill
10-13-15, 12:09 AM
Somebody in the audience throws something out, a word or concept. Bill says, I don't have to tell you about that. I get the impression it is an inside joke between Bill and the fellow in the audience.

george
10-18-15, 01:46 AM
hi everyone,

thanks for all of your replys, Im sorry I did not comment sooner but alot is happening here and my internet is flakey right now too.

Ive been led to something that I am reading now that was written in 1700:

http://www.passtheword.org/Jane-Lead/warsofdavid.htm#s26

as soon as I started reading I felt the need to share it here! I havnt even finished reading yet either.

thanks

allodial
10-18-15, 06:42 AM
Also here in PDF and other formats: https://archive.org/details/warsdavidandpea00leadgoog.

xparte
10-18-15, 07:08 PM
All Men and Myths are created equal.Its a property protection racket mystery schools do they hold keys too faith . Mans soul has been created equal only to his potter himself .Bible is a living estimate on a lost people [us] in search of soul. God providing man with a soul. ones inheritance and why only God can rest a soul only Man can torment it.Building cathedrals higher is the our first torment.Truth is built into each soul Hate is built from that truth.Christ was hated each biblical word can be debated yet all truth can be abated.Search is what a soul was intended for, calm down we have eternity.Hey loddial between Hank Williams pain songs Newbury's train songs and blue eyes crying in the rain. Like father like son. Man has inherited the ability to affect his world creatively, for better or for worse.The song and the dance. life cant sell ya both thanx the links and your ability to affect old singers and dancers like me.

Michael Joseph
10-18-15, 08:29 PM
Building cathedrals higher is the our first torment.

That is why I read Genesis Chapter 1 and 2 as follows. The beginning of Chapter 1 reflects a falling away - this is evidenced in NT in the Prodigal Son story. Also in Enoch 42 the Holy Spirit [She] sought a place with the sons of Man but could not find. Thus Genesis 1:2 is a "sort of" reset. 2nd age if you like....Dr. Arnold Murray teaches three world ages - excellent teacher who is missed. His son has taken the mantle. I digress.

Genesis 2:2-31 is the story of God working in Man to regenerate man from a fallen status "as beast of the field" to a 7th day Sabbatical status. In a sense we see in Genesis 1, the Natural Man who is changed into a Spiritual Man. But then in Genesis 2 we learn of a man who has reached a Celestial status. The 7th day Man - regenerated - and in the Image of God - which is Christ. For Christ is the first emanation of The Most High God.

St. Paul wrote concerning different glories - sun, moon, and stars. Also the Celestial Glory, the Spiritual Glory and the Natural Man who is a brute beast. Since we all find ourselves in the flesh the status discussed cannot be physical and must refer to consciousness. One very interesting fact to note is the central nervous system and its 31 branches. I would point the reader to Joshua 12:9-24. Now a careful study of St. Paul will show the careful student 31 aspects of carnality that must be overcome.

The Cranial Nerves are 12 pairs - 24 elders
The Spinal Nerves are 31 pairs - reference Joshua and the Kings that died in battle. The serpent has been overcome.

Notice in verse Joshua 12:9 we learn of the King of Ai which is juxtaposed opposite of Bethel. Ai is WASTEHEAP - Bethel is HOUSE OF GOD. Ai is on the Left. Bethel is on the Right. How do I know? Look at Abram's journey notice he is traveling in a Southbound manner. Ai is on his left. Bethel on his Right. Abram is the unregenerated mind - Abraham is the regenerated Mind - the 7th day Man.

Back to the 31 Kings - the Spinal - Central Nervous System - this is what tempts the Mind to eat of the TREE of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We are the tree! There is no physical tree save man! And now - the Serpent was in the midst of the Garden. And the Kingdom of God is WITHIN.

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Eve the Soul choose between the Lower and the Upper. Thus there was enmity between the Serpent Seed and the Woman's Seed. The Serpent is the Central Nervous System and the Woman is the Spirit. One can physically see this in the 12 cranial nerves and the 31 spinal nerves.

It is time to celebrate Tabernacles! Gather the branches of the 12 Nerve Trees and build you Sukka . Enter WITHIN - O caterpillar - and emerge a butterfly!

Thusly we see a fragmentation of THE ADAM - into Adam and Eve. Therefore as we look to Physical Jerusalem we see the walls are broken down and the gates are burned - but this is a physical representation of that which is within each of us. For those physical gates/wall represent the 12 gates of sight within. For when Adam/Eve ate they lost their IN-sight and their Cranial Nerves were greatly diminished. And their perception fell upon their fives senses - the five lords of the Philistines - which serve the Serpent and those 31 Kings - pairs of spinal nerves - Carnality.

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God. For 46 years the temple was in building - 46 chromosomes!

Yes, it is true that our spiritual gates have been broken down. However, we are not working on repairing the old Jerusalem across the sea. We are working to bring about the descent of the New Jerusalem which shall be as a bride adorned for her husband. The gates of this New Jerusalem will not admit the condemnation and weak and beggarly concepts of the old religious establishment. These must be left outside the gate. Instead, a fresh breeze of the Spirit will blow throughout this city. It will be a place of reaching out to every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. It will be a place of inclusion of all into the love of God rather than of exclusion. The old establishment will be shown a more excellent way.



[B]And the Spiritual Gates of this Holy City shall be open!

Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

And the eyes of the blind shall open! And the ears of the dumb shall hear!


THE GATES ARE NOT IN THE PHYSICAL CITY OF JERUSALEM; THEY ARE IN US.

Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Isaiah 9:9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The 31 Kings must be subdued! For Carnality will not enter into the Kingdom of God! For Carnality is hatred against God!

We have all chosen carnality but there is a great hope that carnality will be subdued [I die daily - St. Paul]. Thusly,

THE WALLS OF OUR CITY HAVE BEEN BROKENDOWN AND OUR GATES BURNED WITH FIRE.

Nehemiah1:1 The words of Nehemiah the son of Hachaliah. And it came to pass in the month
Chisleu, in the twentieth year, as I was in Shushan the palace,

3 And they said unto me, The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are
in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates
thereof are burned with fire.

4 And it came to pass, when I heard these words, that I sat down and wept ...


But understand the allegory! Repairing of the physical gates in no way will fix the breach within!

THE GATES ARE NOT IN THE PHYSICAL CITY OF JERUSALEM; THEY ARE IN US. Exactly as Jesus said at Luke 17:20-21.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Placing stone upon stone bears no fruit. For the INNER TEMPLE must be built. Reference all of the great book of Haggai.

Hag 1:9 Ye looked for much, and, lo, it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that is waste, and ye run every man unto his own house.

Hag 1:10 Therefore the heaven over you is stayed from dew, and the earth is stayed from her fruit.

====

Many would that Pentecost and Tabernacles are sometime in the future. I feel sorry for these folk for consider the following:

Hag 1:2 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, This people say, The time is not come, the time that the LORD'S house should be built.
Hag 1:3 Then came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet, saying,
Hag 1:4 Is it time for you, O ye, to dwell in your cieled houses, and this house lie waste?
Hag 1:5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

Hag 1:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.
Hag 1:8 Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD.

Hag 2:3 Who is left among you that saw this house in her first glory? and how do ye see it now? is it not in your eyes in comparison of it as nothing?


Hag 2:4 Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I am with you, saith the LORD of hosts:

Zerubbabel - sown[seed] into Confusion
Joshua - Yehovah is Salvation
Josedech - Yehovah is Righteousness
the LORD of Hosts = The True Joshua = Yehovah is Commander in Chief

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

David Merrill
10-18-15, 09:02 PM
Very enjoyable - relaxing too! Thanks MJ.

Michael Joseph
10-18-15, 09:08 PM
Very enjoyable - relaxing too! Thanks MJ.

My pleasure. Many, I find, are torn between two lovers.

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Hey here is more evidence that the folks who wrote the Scriptures in English knew the mystery. Count the words of the allegorical "serpent" as it speaks to allegorical "Eve".

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Comment: 14 Words

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Comment: 5 Words

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Comment: 27 Words

14 + 5 + 27 = 46. As in 46 Chromosomes!

allodial
10-18-15, 09:36 PM
To reiterate, what way do you get a soul so enmeshed in "reality" to comprehend higher things?

[1] You can start with a garden: you learn about life reaping and sewing and such things. Kids these days take Biology class. But in the Roman Catholic schools in the past it was known they would hide the how the parts of plants were analogous to the penis and the vagina (i.e. that plants have sex). Today the schools even hide to make the obvious obscured.
[2] You establish a government or city or system comprised of parts and systems that illustrate higher spiritual things.
[3] You design places of meeting that are designed in a manner to teach of higher spiritual things.
[4] You have a group act out a history physically that others can reflect upon with discernment and thusly discern the higher spiritual things.
[5] You inspire and have penned written works that elucidate.


Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1 Corinthians 1:25


For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their craftiness," 1 Corinthians 3:19

NOT ALL WISDOM IS GODLY.


Reptile
3077 (from thefreedictionary.com)

The serpent is a reptile meaning that it is a 'creeping crawling' thing, it is focused upon low-order concerns--filling its belly, dominating for the sake of dominating. When men of that nature run governments, their governments will likely evidence a creepy crawly kind of concern. Esau aka Edom was concerned about lower order things to the extent that his mother saw him unfit for the priesthood/inheritance and so set out to make sure that Jacob inherited it. Jacob became Israel.

Reptile does not mean snake, it describes the nature of roaches, snakes, spiders..things that crawl on the ground--low order of concern: carnality. The kind of wisdom that a serpent/carnal can give is the lower order of wisdom of the world.

Michael Joseph
10-18-15, 11:55 PM
Certainly there are many outworkings in Wisdom. For instance be as wise as serpents. Thus there is a lower serpent and a higher serpent. For we are told to get Wisdom. Today I was asked to go to a church service to sit with a friend. I went and remembered why I don't go. But nevertheless, the preacher today taught that the message of Christ was only given to the unwise quoting the passage that it was given to babes and not to the wise.

I had to keep from laughing. For how can the Word annul itself? For we are informed to get Wisdom as it is principal. Understanding the parable of the 12 brothers at once one can see it is the Babe that Joseph [a type of Christ] was interested. For Judah [a symbol of Spirit] was told go get Benjamin [the babe] and bring Benjamin to Joseph [again a type of Christ]. And then it was given to the babe - five fold more than the other ten.

Indeed the understanding is given to the babe. For Wisdom is lifted up. And the lower serpent becomes a "golden candlestick." There are indeed twelve cranial nerves. And one nerve - the vagus nerve - goes down into Egypt.

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allodial
10-19-15, 01:17 AM
Worldly wisdom is not what was being promoted in the book of Proverbs. There is a major distinction between worldly wisdom and divine wisdom. The serpent crawling on the ground like a reptile was obviously 'down low' rather than up high.

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And the lord commended the unrighteous steward that he did prudently, because the sons of this age are more prudent than the sons of the light, in respect to their generation. Luke 16:8


"And his master praised the unrighteous manager because he had acted shrewdly; for the sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind than the sons of light. Luke 16:8


At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Just because the babes were babes before reception of the Divine Wisdom doesn't mean they remained unwise after reception. To be wise in the worldly since without Godly wisdom does not necessarily rule out blindness. The Pharisees were called a brood of vipers, no? Perhaps they were wise and shrewd in the worldly sense. Clearly Jesus did not regard them to be wise in the Divine sense.


Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains." John 9:41


"Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber." John 10:1 (follows immediately in sequence)

They were so 'wise' (in the wrong way--the serpent/reptile/worldly way?) that they could not see and did not realize that they could not see. I have met many folks like that who wreak destruction wheresoever they go, and they cannot see that they cannot see, they do not realize that they cannot feel as others do because they in their sin have become insensitive to the abhorrence thereof.


For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

Also, FYI "babes" can mean those who were pure of heart, innocent and free of the guile of the world rather they be 7 or 77 years of age.


Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. James 3:13

Remember, MJ, the cherubim were part of the temple, too. The word cherubim is somewhat similar to the word 'curb'. A curb keeps you from hurting yourself or hurting others. Cherubim might partially serve a similar function.

Related:
James 3:13-18 (Earthly Wisdom vs Godly Wisdom)
(https://sermons.logos.com/submissions/114197-James-3_13-18-Earthly-Wisdom-vs-Godly-Wisdom-#content=/submissions/114197)

Michael Joseph
10-19-15, 02:32 AM
There are many outworkings of God and they may be in the spirit, mind or soul, or in the physical body realm. Because we understand one, it does not mean that we should deny the others. In that dark night of the soul at Peniel Jacob had to wrestle with the heaven of his thoughts - the realm of the soul. The heaven that he was in, with its thoughts and
limitations, had to be replaced with a new heaven so that he could begin to ascend the the rungs of the ladder to the higher heavens.

We can see clearly from the scriptures in the book of Peter that the old elements of faulty thinking which resulted in our fall from the heavens must be dissolved by fire so that we, like the prodigal son, can ascend our way back to the higher heavens of Father's house. And no matter if the older brother might be jealous, our Father will handle that too.

II PET 3:13 Nevertheless,we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I love the song by FLEETWOOD MAC that says "Can the child within my heart rise above".... beautiful lyric.

Ester was really put in a box. The law said that if she went into the inner court without being called, she could be put to death. However, the word came that unless she fulfilled the destiny to which she was called, God would get someone else to do it and she would not escape persecution and / or possibly death. She had to find a way out of that paradigm and she did so by fulfilling her destiny.

And when she expanded her heavens, she was rewarded by salvation coming to her people. Also, she found that the rules of the inner court were different than the outer court. No longer was she merely like a piece of property, but her husband extended to her a gracious offer - half the kingdom.

Consider the paradigm shift in Joseph from Law to Grace.

LUK 1:38 And Mary said,Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they
came together, she was found to be with child of the Holy Ghost.

MAT 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make a publick example, was minded to put her away privily

Poor Joseph was really in a box. Here he was about to come together with his new bride and - of all things - she was pregnant. And he knew it was not by him. The LAW under which he lived demanded that she be stoned. In effect, if he had followed through with that, Jesus, within Mary, would have been stoned. But Joseph was a man prepared by God for his role, and he was merciful and was minded to put Mary away privily so that she was not shamed and humiliated. He, in effect, went from the paradigm of LAW to GRACE.

But God had something else in mind, He wanted Joseph to go upward two paradigms. He wanted Joseph not only to extend GRACE to Mary but LOVE.

In the beginning, upon the top of the mountain, there was a pool of clear, cold water called the Virgin's spring. (Isaiah 7:3) Around it was the fuller's field or field of transfiguration. The church that drank of the sparkling clear, cool water was the Church of the Firstborn of the Most High (El Elyon) [Hebrews 12:22 - 24 & Psalm 87: & 82:6].

And then a great tragedy ocurred and some fell from the plateau at the top of the mountain to a lower plain. They could not find their way back up to the mountain top which became shrouded by a mist. [Ref Book of Adam and Eve] They could only look (Dan 4:17) thru the mist darkly to the top of the mountain. The water that flowed down from the mountain top was damned up and was called the lower pool (Isaiah 22:9 -11).

While this water refreshed, some complained that those shepherds responsible for it had fouled the waters with their feet and the waters were stagnant. (Ezekiel 34:18). After a while, this (See Thru a Glass Darkly) group set up its own government because it was too difficult to communicate with the top of the mountain where the virgin spring flowed and the Sun of transfiguration was always shining in the fuller's field.

Some fell even further down the mountain where the water from the upper pool and even the lower pool no longer reached them. They remembered the refreshing flow from the spring of the Spirit, but since they had no water, they wrote about it in letters. This place became known as the land of the LAW.

And in a land below the LAW was a desert area called the LAWLESS. In the fall from a heaven, our paradigm shrunk and we were limited by the faulty thinking. To reascend the mountain of God, we must expand our paradigm and do away with the faulty thinking that caused the fall in the first place. And this we will do IF the Lord permits.

ROM 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

-----

allodial, concerning the Cheribim, I agree. They were placed so that carnal mind might not "eat" of the tree of life. And, as you say, bring hurt.

allodial
10-19-15, 02:56 AM
But when you are discussing within the framework of a specific covenant, it is within that framework plain and simple. When you speak outside of that covenant, then another matter. The narrow path is not wide. Who goes around telling the Chinese people how to run their society? Or the witches or sorcerers how to run their covens/convents (the terms are synonymous)? So what place do self-proclaimed outsiders have telling Israel, Judah how to run their society save for the author and finisher of Our faith who isn't a missing person needing a stand-in AFAIK? Jesus clearly was not an outsider.

The covenant with Cain is clearly different from the covenant with David, Abraham or Israel. The implied covenant with the Serpent was that he would feast on the dust of the earth. So it really depends on the covenantal framework. If A and O is on a narrow-path covenant, and B, C, D, E and F are on a wide-path covenants then B through F are strangers to the covenant of A and O. Point is lots of Wiccans, Freemasons--at least some but not all that I've met, Serpent Worshippers and Self Worshippers and such seem to spend an awful lot of time telling other people how to live their lives. The most conservative Bible-centric congregations (from Presbyterian to Pentecostal) I've come across nary who promoted hatred for anyone simply prayer for others and love of all. But I've not found the same among Freemasons, Wiccans, etc. There's a lot of projection fomented against the true bible believers and part of that meted out by false impersonation (http://www.reformation.org/simon_peter_versus_simon_magus.html).

Related:
Symbolism of Heavens and Earth: National & Political, or Covenantal? (http://www.preteristcentral.com/Symbolism%20of%20the%20Heavens%20and%20Earth%20-%20Covenantal%20or%20Social%20and%20Political.html )

xparte
10-19-15, 03:49 AM
Upper and lower Egypt. if Egypt's literature is a luxury her fiction is necessity only to her. Great bible truths and wisdom often are forgotten but can never be falsified. Man never stops explaining his success, Only the intelligent truth is trying to explain our failure.Ones life is distinguish between a tax and a fine, Jumping ahead The Romans were quite willing to admit that Christ was a God. But denied He was the God – the highest truth of the cosmos. Can the new testament be that highest truth. the books of the Old Testament have a quite perceptible unity. . .God is properly the only character in the Old Testament. Compared with His clearness of purpose, all the other wills are heavy and automatic, like those of animals; compared with His actuality, all the sons of flesh are shadows.All the patriarchs and prophets are merely His tools or weapons; for the Lord is a man of war.He uses Joshua like an axe or Moses like a measuring rod. For Him, Samson, is only a sword and Isaiah a trumpet. It is He that sits above the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers The Old Testament is so intent upon asserting the personality of God that it almost asserts the impersonality of man.A cosmic philosophy is not constructed to fit a man; a cosmic philosophy is constructed to fit a cosmos. A man can no more possess a private religion than he can possess a private sun and moon.The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man. Job & God this thing about the world, as far as men are concerned, it is that it cannot be explained. God insists on the inexplicableness of everything. Yet today the fine thing about the world is that it can all be explained.God invariably punishes vice with terrestrial punishment and rewards virtue with terrestrial prosperity. If the Hebrews had answered that question wrongly they might have lost all their after influence in human history. . Why Israel believed that its prosperity was the reward of virtue, their next calamity is obvious. unlike Job who is not told that his misfortunes were due to his sins or a part of any plan for his improvement. we see Job tormented not because he was the worst of men, but because he was the best. Christ virtue and his prosperity are not lost . or the best and worst of us need Christ humility.

george
10-23-15, 01:59 AM
about right/left brain syncro: http://www.project-meditation.org/community/learn-how-you-can-benefit-project-meditation/29-scientific-research-brainwave-entrainment.html

I wonder though, is this taking the kingdom by force? not mentioned in the article is the "devils chord" which from what Ive read was a sound that the catholic church outlawed. I also wonder why their cathedrals were designed in such a way so as to resonate sounds..

xparte
10-23-15, 05:20 AM
In such a context, one could say, "the cathedral resonated with the music from ... Hmm, so it does! ... then the "sound" made by the book is "reverberating" within me. ..why so much of the cathedral service is chanted, or .expressed in musical tones; the resulting echo not being so inconveniently felt under such circumstances. ..https://youtu.be/8rzSDc-AFPo hey george thank God Chuck Berry was baptist without that "devils chord"nuthing would resonate . Christian churches first outlawed Christ with its latin . then the gothic masonic cathedrals nail a note on the front door its more babel the new towers and pyramids. true chords just the same.

allodial
10-23-15, 06:51 AM
about right/left brain syncro: http://www.project-meditation.org/community/learn-how-you-can-benefit-project-meditation/29-scientific-research-brainwave-entrainment.html

I wonder though, is this taking the kingdom by force? not mentioned in the article is the "devils chord" which from what Ive read was a sound that the catholic church outlawed. I also wonder why their cathedrals were designed in such a way so as to resonate sounds..

Taking the kindgom with violence has to with spiritual warfare not sound frequencies: prayer, fasting, healing, treading on serpents, as necessary. Same way someone takes a gold medal or a pageant crown with violence, force or fervency. However, brainwave entrainment using binaural beats is a legitimate way to overcome mental or cognitive problems (there is a free program called gnaural (http://gnaural.sourceforge.net/))--Natura Sound Therapy (http://blissive.com/software/item/natura-sound-therapy) might be a better choice though.

Related:
Violent Take It By Force (http://christianblogs.christianet.com/1155291770.htm)

David Merrill
10-23-15, 10:17 AM
That is what Jesus would do - Take the Kingdom by force. I have an interesting book called the Illuminatus Trilogy. Immanentizing the Christian Eschaton. It has three authors. It is about a rendition of what Jesus did. This is going to shock many of you.

I have pulled Pragmatism for a moment while some people reconcile as beneficiaries.


And the bookkeeper can be king if the public can be kept ignorant of the methodology of the bookkeeping. All science is the means to an end. The means is knowledge. The end is control. Beyond this remains only one issue: who will be the beneficiary.

- From Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars


People who attribute being to a God outside themselves reconcile the books with - God works in mysterious ways. - Just as they appraise the church building to be whatever value will balance the books that month, together in their Corporate PERSON 501(c)(3) - President, Secretary, Treasurer and... forming that artificial entity. They call it double-entry.

So Jesus felt so betrayed, having come so close to fulfilling the Last Prophecy. He had it worked out, he thought, with Judas. The Worthless Shepherd Prophecy of Zechariah clearly dictated that Judas was to go buy an expensive sword and return to the Last Supper and execute the new King with it; ending the role of Messiah ben Joseph. According to the Prophecy Jesus would arise in three days and fulfill execution of the second part - Messiah ben David (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VIma1JyQm8waVhjcFU/view?usp=sharing). [Note that link is from Page 137 of the book - the number of the Qaballah - KOPH BETH LAMED HEY = 137.]

All things work for good when you have that balance between the left and the right. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImVnI5aEZsZEQ2ZUE/view?usp=sharing) In short - when I plugged in the naturally occurring isotopes and tweaked them for optimum resonance with my entrained vibration (Advanced Resonance Inductive Plasma Physics) - out came the Name of God, and the Name of the Messiah. The computer program took three days on my supercomputer:


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Yes; it is okay to smile. I had to connect a power supply so that it would not run out of batteries and lose the program.

When Jesus realized what Joseph - the affiliated authority - had done; he had bargained with Pilate to stage Jesus' death on the Cross; so as Jesus lost consciousness due to the hyssop sedative and having his cuts doused in vinegar he realized he would be surviving not only a kingly assassination by sword (Judas' betrayal was he chickened out) he was also going to survive Crucifixion, Jesus cried out:


Father! My God! Why has thou forsaken me?!!

Then he swooned in intense pain and shock as the Romans under orders sponged his cuts with vinegar. One soldier even nicked him and to the untrained eye, Jesus bleeding proved he was dead? No. That proves blood pressure! He was still alive. His heart was still beating.

If you have the balance of this "entrainment" the Keys abound in the Holy Spirit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msjV4elf3qY).



P.S. The fellow still lives in peace off the grid, in the middle of the METRO organization.



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David Merrill
10-23-15, 10:38 AM
P.P.S. This is fun, but not a toy.

I shared insight with Joseph HELFAND, a graduate student at the University of Maryland under mentor Sylvester James GATES III (Jim GATES Jr.). Jim and Joe were developing Supersymmetry and Superstring Theory in Jim's lab and so there was a lot of investment in a certain imbalance. Joe began to perceive attack as he introduced Advanced Resonance Inductive Plasma Physics and Jim began to accuse Joe of messing up "the Equipment" - the equations. Joe went into the Bethesda mental hospital for a month trying to reconcile the books. When Joe came back to Jim's laboratory (apparently) Jim was afraid and they fought.

Joe went to the top of the parking garage and threw himself off.

David Merrill
10-23-15, 03:41 PM
People who attribute being to a God outside themselves reconcile the books with - God works in mysterious ways. - Just as they appraise the church building to be whatever value will balance the books that month, together in their Corporate PERSON 501(c)(3) - President, Secretary, Treasurer and... forming that artificial entity. They call it double-entry.

Quoting myself from above -

President, Secretary and Treasurer... I saved that for the next member of the PERSON - the congregant Members. This is developed here more in Life and Debt. Read this and understand this is typical attorney verbiage found in the bylaws of any 501(c)(3) non-profit tax-exempt corporation:



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The example that ruined the flavor for me (literally) is how the first Sunday of each month the Religious Organization throws a birthday celebration for everybody who has a birthday during that month. This is done with big birthday cakes all around after service. Delicious! Or at least it used to be...

David Merrill
10-23-15, 03:47 PM
I want this tied back to the guilt trip - Abraham being real or not - that would bring him to the edge of killing Isaac on the Temple Mount (before construction), Mount Moriah. That this was happening at puberty for Isaac brings the Key into focus. This whole deal about sacrifice is upon guilt. In the Bible, because Abraham was half-siblings with Sarah.

xparte
10-23-15, 05:00 PM
‘I am born in a state of innocence, and therefore I can be as guilty as I like. Mans denial of sin ranges from naïve ideas about our history and horrible things people are really capable of doing to themselves and others [he seemed like such a nice Man] to the rather nonchalant acceptance of whatever it is that people want to do. The confusion of thought is evident in the way guilt or innocence is assumed though not defined. Having contradictory guilt with terms like sophistication emotion and irrationality are the trinity of sin. How to avoid it or manage it [Guilt] whats Original Sin without the fall Man/Wo not just the garden variety grown from seeds. But replaced with the prick was just born evil we must explain how are mind works Total Depravity without any Fall how [cant] we explain it. Purity needs to be completely pure little purity does not go very far moral purity Guilt can afford to be dirty, but its the seduction that has to be clean. No sin - no need for a savior. No sin - no need for Christ. The original sin was Satan's: NON SERVIAM. latin its all in the the service .

george
10-25-15, 02:46 AM
Dan Winter:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/KjDwZNbaic4

inspiring

allodial
10-25-15, 08:37 AM
People who attribute being to a God outside themselves reconcile the books with - God works in mysterious ways. - Just as they appraise the church building to be whatever value will balance the books that month, together in their Corporate PERSON 501(c)(3) - President, Secretary, Treasurer and... forming that artificial entity. They call it double-entry.

So Jesus felt so betrayed, having come so close to fulfilling the Last Prophecy. He had it worked out, he thought, with Judas. The Worthless Shepherd Prophecy of Zechariah clearly dictated that Judas was to go buy an expensive sword and return to the Last Supper and execute the new King with it; ending the role of Messiah ben Joseph. According to the Prophecy Jesus would arise in three days and fulfill execution of the second part - Messiah ben David. [Note that link is from Page 137 of the book - the number of the Qaballah - KOPH BETH LAMED HEY = 137.]

I was taught that the Wortheless Shepherd prophecies pointed to the fact that Pharisees, etc. would reject Jesus (name basically means means 'savior') and in turn would turn to or get a "worthless shepherd" which to knowledge led them to Bar Kokhba revolt (Maccabean): a leader that made thousands cut off their fingers of their right hand etc., and led them to destruction and judgement with Rome being used as instrument of such judgment. The worthless shepherd prophecy was fulfilled to the 't' after they rejected Jesus.


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The Expositor's Bible Commentary gives some insight although their commentary still holds on to some vestiges of yet-to-be-futurism. There are many "midrashim" (http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/bk01.html) about Simeon bar Kochba/Kohkba, here is one:


Midrash Rabbah Lamentations 2.2 4
For three and a half years the emperor Hadrian surrounded Bethar. In the city was rabbi Eleazar of Mode'in [5], who continually wore sackcloth and fasted, and used to pray daily: 'Lord of the universe, sit not in judgment today!' so that Hadrian thought of returning home [6].

A Cuthean [7] went [to the emperor] and found him and said: 'My lord, so long as that old cock wallows in ashes, you will not conquer the city. But wait for me, because I will do something that will enable you to subdue it to-day.'

He immediately entered the gate of the city, where he found rabbi Eleazar standing and praying. He pretended to whisper in the ear of rabbi Eleazar of Mode'in. People went and informed Bar Kozeba: 'Your friend, rabbi Eleazar, wishes to surrender the city to Hadrian.'

He sent and had the Cuthean brought to him and asked: 'What did you say to him?'

He replied: 'If I tell you, the emperor will kill me; and if I do not tell you, you will kill me. It is better that I should kill myself and the secrets of the government be not divulged.'

Bar Kozeba was convinced that rabbi Eleazar wanted to surrender the city, so when the latter finished his praying, he had him brought into his presence and asked him: 'What did the Cuthean tell you?'

He answered: 'I do not know what he whispered in my ear, nor did I hear anything, because I was standing in prayer and am unaware what he said.'

{Simeon} Bar Kozeba flew into a rage, kicked him with his foot and killed him. A heavenly voice issued forth and proclaimed: 'Woe to the worthless shepherd that leaveth the flock! The sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right arm!'[8]

It was intimated to him, 'Thou hast paralyzed the arm of Israel and blinded their right eye; therefore shall thy arm wither and thy right arm grow dim!'

Forthwith the sins [of the people] caused Bethar to be captured. {Simeon} Bar Kozeba was slain and his head taken to Hadrian. He asked: 'Who killed him?'

A Cuthean said to him: 'I killed him.'

'Bring his body to me,' he ordered.

He went and and found a snake encircling its neck. So Hadrian, when told of this, exclaimed: 'If his God had not slain him, who could have overcome him?' [9]

And there was applied to him the verse: Except their rock had given them over.[10]

Also, from the Palestine Talmud (,Ta'anit 4.5):


Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai taught: 'Aqiba, my master, used to interpret a star goes forth from Jacob [1] as 'Kozeba goes forth from Jacob'. Rabbi Aqiba, when he saw {Simeon} Bar Kozeba, said: 'This is the king Messiah!' Rabbi Johanan ben Torta said to him: 'Aqiba! Grass will grow on your cheeks and still the son of David does not come!'


Bar Kokba is said to have tested the valor of his soldiers by ordering each one to cut off a finger; and when the wise men beheld this, they objected to the self-mutilation involved, and advised him to issue an order to the effect that every horseman must show that he could tear a cedar of the Lebanon up by the roots while riding at full speed. In this way he eventually had 200,000 soldiers who passed the first ordeal, and 200,000 heroes who accomplished the latter feat (Yer. Ta'anit iv. 68d). It must have been during the war, when he had already performed miracles of valor, that R. Akiba said of him, "This is the King Messiah" (ib.); but he had the presumption—so runs the legend—to pray to God: "We pray Thee, do not give assistance to the enemy; us Thou needst not help!" (ib.; Lam. R. ii. 2; Gi?. 57a et seq.; Yal?., Deut. 946); and it was inevitable that many persons, among them his uncle R. Eleazar of Modi'im, should disbelieve in his Messianic mission. Source: jewishencyclopedia.com (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2471-bar-kokba-and-bar-kokba-war)

The picture being painted is that Simeon bar Kochba it seems fulfilled the Worthless Shepherd prophecy. There is related book entitled Jewish Identity and Politics Between the Maccabees and Bar Kokhba by one Benedikt Eckhardt (https://books.google.com/books?id=o26q1wvI8ksC&printsec=frontcover). However, there is a rather plausible notion of "the Worthless Shepherd" being composed of or alluding to each and every one the unreliable 'leaders' substituted for Jesus.

The Worthless Shepherd Prophecy brings Jeremiah 17:5 to mind:


Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man {geber} (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1397&t=KJV) that trusteth in man {adam} (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H120&t=KJV), and maketh flesh his arm {zerowa} (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2220&t=KJV), and whose heart departeth from the LORD. {Note the word 'and' rather than 'or'--three-fold conditions.}

From Jeremiah I also glean that reliance upon mundane political or military forces or could not have been part of the fulfillment of messianic prophecies since the word for arm also means: "forces (political and military)". In view of Jeremiah 17:5, likelihood of Jesus then having been intending to stage a secular coup d'etat is greatly diminished. One might also consider, also, riding on a donkey (peace) vs. riding on a horse (war) which had very significant meanings then.

One might also consider Habbakuk 1:16 which to knowledge describes the Babylonian practice of "worshipping one's net":


Therefore they sacrifice unto their net, and burn incense unto their drag; because by them their portion is fat, and their meat plenteous. Habbakuk 1:16.

I was taught that net here mainly refers to their (Babylon's) military might or their of coercive force. The Hebrews, of course, would lack that kind of characteristic of worshipping (serving) or attributing their success or prosperity to military power. Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers lucidates:


The prophet has already stated that the Chaldæan deifies his own military prowess. Of this statement the present verse is an expansion. Weapons of war may have been literally worshipped by the Babylonians. Similarly, the Sarmatians offered yearly sacrifices to a sword, as the emblem of their god of war (Clem. Alex. Protrept. 64). The Romans also sacrificed to their eagles. But probably the language is metaphorical, and we need not seek a closer illustration than that of Dr. Pusey,—“So the Times said at the beginning of the late war, 'The French almost worshipped the mitrailleuse as a goddess.' 'They idolised, it would say, their invention, as if it could do what God alone could.'"

The Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary (re: Habakkuk) (http://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb/habakkuk/1.htm) echoes much the same:


16. sacrifice unto their net—that is, their arms, power, and military skill, wherewith they gained their victories; instead of to God. Compare Hab 1:11, Maurer's interpretation. They idolize themselves for their own cleverness and might (De 8:17; Isa 10:13; 37:24, 25).

by them—by their net and dragnet.

their portion—image from a banquet: the prey which they have gotten.

In contrast to the Babylonians, it would have been most uncharacteristic of ancient Israel or of Hebrews generally to lawfully in God's eyes to worship their own 'net'. Jesus reliance upon secular or mundane military progress is highly diminished in light of the foregoing. The writings of Josephus and others clearly point to the divine and holy.

For further elucidation, earlier on in the Book of Zechariah we find:


Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Zechariah 4:6

xparte
10-25-15, 12:27 PM
Judas the first paid informant, The People who attribute being to a God outside themselves reconcile the books with - God works in mysterious ways. A Worthless Shepherd and Secular scapegoats for God . Once your in the service of God. at low cost Guilt afford to be dirty, only its the Secular seduction that has to be clean. Getting rid of peace the no need for a savior. when your looking to war Christ any salvation renders peace render Caesar what's his and its peace. God holds mysterious ways the works part is why he never named any Saints. As prophecy Betrayal is the breaking or violation of a presumptive contract, trust, or confidence that produces moral and psychological conflict within a relationship amongst individuals, between organizations or between individuals and organizations. Often betrayal is the act of supporting a rival group, or it is a complete break from previously decided upon or presumed norms by one party from the others. Someone who betrays others is commonly called a traitor or betrayer. Betrayal is also a commonly used literary element and is often associated with or used as a plot twist. Roman arrest was possible with Pharisee complaint Judas was hired to identify Christ the irony is in Betrayal Christ recognition was no secret to Roman officers and Soldiers His great works and his identity were never mistaken and associated prophecy Pharisees Rejecting Christ IMHumbleO is Rejecting peace as your post has the villains NON SERVIAM

xparte
10-25-15, 12:44 PM
My father had taught me, looking at a bird, he says, "Do you know what that is? It's a Brown-Throated Thrush. But in Portuguese, it's a Hunto La Pero. In Italian, a Chutto La Pittida. In Chinese, it's a Chung Wong Tah." Etcetera. He says, "Now you'd know all the languages you want to know what the name of that bird is, and when you finish with all that," he says, "you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird." He knew the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something. - Richard Feynman

David Merrill
10-25-15, 03:37 PM
I was taught that the Wortheless Shepherd prophecies pointed to the fact that Pharisees, etc. would reject Jesus (name basically means means 'savior') and in turn would turn to or get a "worthless shepherd" which to knowledge led them to Bar Kokhba revolt (Maccabean): a leader that made thousands cut off their fingers of their right hand etc., and led them to destruction and judgement with Rome being used as instrument of such judgment. The worthless shepherd prophecy was fulfilled to the 't' after they rejected Jesus.



The Expositor's Bible Commentary gives some insight although their commentary still holds on to some vestiges of yet-to-be-futurism. There are many "midrashim" (http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/bk01.html) about Simeon bar Kochba/Kohkba, here is one:



Also, from the Palestine Talmud (,Ta'anit 4.5):





The picture being painted is that Simeon bar Kochba it seems fulfilled the Worthless Shepherd prophecy. There is related book entitled Jewish Identity and Politics Between the Maccabees and Bar Kokhba by one Benedikt Eckhardt (https://books.google.com/books?id=o26q1wvI8ksC&printsec=frontcover). However, there is a rather plausible notion of "the Worthless Shepherd" being composed of or alluding to each and every one the unreliable 'leaders' substituted for Jesus.

The Worthless Shepherd Prophecy brings Jeremiah 17:5 to mind:



From Jeremiah I also glean that reliance upon mundane political or military forces or could not have been part of the fulfillment of messianic prophecies since the word for arm also means: "forces (political and military)". In view of Jeremiah 17:5, likelihood of Jesus then having been intending to stage a secular coup d'etat is greatly diminished. One might also consider, also, riding on a donkey (peace) vs. riding on a horse (war) which had very significant meanings then.

One might also consider Habbakuk 1:16 which to knowledge describes the Babylonian practice of "worshipping one's net":



I was taught that net here mainly refers to their (Babylon's) military might or their of coercive force. The Hebrews, of course, would lack that kind of characteristic of worshipping (serving) or attributing their success or prosperity to military power. Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers lucidates:



The Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary (re: Habakkuk) (http://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb/habakkuk/1.htm) echoes much the same:



In contrast to the Babylonians, it would have been most uncharacteristic of ancient Israel or of Hebrews generally to lawfully in God's eyes to worship their own 'net'. Jesus reliance upon secular or mundane military progress is highly diminished in light of the foregoing. The writings of Josephus and others clearly point to the divine and holy.

For further elucidation, earlier on in the Book of Zechariah we find:

Xparte; Thank you! This is why I post - that kind of mindful input!

Allodial; Pragmatism is a radical interpretation and like the euphemism of Abraham and Sarah's incest, I find so much interpretation like you share to be rationale and justification. Thank you for bringing in the Bar Kokhba Revolution in. I had nearly forgotten about that very embarrassing episode in Jewish history.

I think this might be more along my line of thought. But please don't assume I have adopted this as mine.

The Worthless Shepherd. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImd2pfaUU1YllTOVk/view?usp=sharing)

The Sop. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImRFlBODdDWFNBR2c/view?usp=sharing)

When forming my impressions about the Last Supper I presumed that Jesus knew how his life and recently his ministry had been fulfilling prophecies from the writings of Israel. Things had taken a turn for Jesus. He had been brought up knowing he was the son of the King, Archelaus HEROD but that he was an embarrassment bastard. Now with John, Archelaus' prophet channeling Elijah crowning him King, Jesus felt that he would be executed by sword and then somehow be resurrected in three days.

This brings a lot of other passages into congruence. Like Peter finding two swords...


I will give your post some time and enjoyment too.

David Merrill
10-25-15, 05:49 PM
It helps with the legal questions around Jesus being King:


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David Merrill
10-25-15, 09:35 PM
Upon a little more reading I must admit that The Nazarene Gospel Restored has indeed influenced my Bible interpretation. It was so long ago that I read it, that I had forgotten.

The Coronation. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImaFk2STZ1N2RhUDQ/view?usp=sharing)

allodial
10-25-15, 10:09 PM
... Now with John, Archelaus' prophet channeling Elijah crowning him King, Jesus felt that he would be executed by sword and then somehow be resurrected in three days.

What few may realize is that the significance of the Resurrection as pertains to the extent Zoroastrianism that may have influenced the Pharisees. Babylonian religion and ideas had begun to corrupt at the time may have incompatible with the Melchedizek and Hebrew and Mosaic doctrines. That many Israelites had mistaken the doctrine of the Hebrews for secular dabblings was a major problem even in Isaiah's and Jeremiah's time--i.e. they started have the idea of modeling their governance after worldly governments such as Egypt and Babylon (which is why they wound up in Babylonian captivity--conflict of laws). Zoroastrians from what I recall had a shorter time limit on when a body could be resurrected. The 3 days would have proven contrary to Zoroastrian restrictions.

There is a strong body of evidence that the Pharisees (similar word to Farsi the language of Persia) were strongly leaning toward or influenced by Zoroastrianism. If the Bible was trying to conform with what was acceptable to the Flavian (Vespasian--said to have been born 9 years after Jesus) family or to the Pharisees the resurrection would likely have happened in less time. Its been a long time since I researched the Pharisee-Zoroastrianism connection. Consider, the significance of Iran these days: Persia.

Re: Two swords.
There were two cherubim atop the Mercy Seat (the lid of Ark of the Covenant). That seems highly significant to two swords. Furthermore, the significance of two witnesses.

Re: execution by sword.
From what I've gathered, the prophecies spoke of crucifixion or hanging. I would figure even on the secular level he would have expected to be stoned, crucified or hung. Likely, he was well aware that the scepter had departed from Judah so would be handed over to the Romans.

Nonetheless, diverse interpretations are interesting. However, I came to discover a consistent, golden thread permeating all of the Bible works and the Tanach that fails to contradict itself AFAIK. That is, I find it all highly pragmatic: spiritually first and foremost, physically after that--a good and right order.. I've found that most people that have a problem with true saints and believers really have a problem with heretical Gnostic doctrines, Mithraic overlays: and so they might mistake the baby for the bathwater and the Son for the stranger. They mistake the true believers for Simonians, Zoroastrians or Mithraists--due to projection and false impersonation.


I give you the end of a golden string. Only wind it into a ball. It will lead you in at Heaven's gate: built in Jerusalem's wall. --William Blake

Re: Vespasian
In light of Cyrus's significance, Vespasian's prophetic significance was asserted by Josephus.


Josephus had to fight a defensive war against overwhelming force while refereeing internecine squabbles in the Jewish ranks. In 67 C.E. Josephus and other rebels were cornered in a cave during the siege of Jotapata and took a suicide pact. However, Josephus survived, and was taken hostage by the Romans, led by Vespasian.

Josephus shrewdly reinterpreted the Messianic prophecies. He predicted that Vespasian would become the ruler of the 'entire world'. Josephus joined the Romans, for which he was branded a traitor. He acted as consultant to the Romans and a go-between with the revolutionaries. Unable to convince the rebels to surrender, Josephus ended up watching the second destruction of the Temple and the defeat of the Jewish nation.

What Josephus (and many later Rabbinical writers) saw as Vespasian in this:


"...the people of the prince that will come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary." Daniel 9:26 in part

Is that not exactly what happened under Vespasian and his son Titus?

allodial
10-26-15, 12:44 AM
Xparte; Thank you! This is why I post - that kind of mindful input!

Allodial; Pragmatism is a radical interpretation and like the euphemism of Abraham and Sarah's incest, I find so much interpretation like you share to be rationale and justification. Thank you for bringing in the Bar Kokhba Revolution in. I had nearly forgotten about that very embarrassing episode in Jewish history.

I think this might be more along my line of thought. But please don't assume I have adopted this as mine.

The Worthless Shepherd. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImd2pfaUU1YllTOVk/view?usp=sharing)

The Sop. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImRFlBODdDWFNBR2c/view?usp=sharing)

When forming my impressions about the Last Supper I presumed that Jesus knew how his life and recently his ministry had been fulfilling prophecies from the writings of Israel. Things had taken a turn for Jesus. He had been brought up knowing he was the son of the King, Archelaus HEROD but that he was an embarrassment bastard. Now with John, Archelaus' prophet channeling Elijah crowning him King, Jesus felt that he would be executed by sword and then somehow be resurrected in three days.

This brings a lot of other passages into congruence. Like Peter finding two swords...

I will give your post some time and enjoyment too.

Thank you for the The Worthless Shepherd.pdf link. Very insightful. I have come to suspect that "the Messiah System" has a cherubimic aspect. Why? The design of the Ark with the two cherubim on the mercy seat and the temple itself having cherubim incorporated. In other words, Messiah protects the Holiness in two ways, one of which is keeping the stranger out.

I am uncertain which prophecies they suggest Jesus to have failed to fulfill--I'm referring to page 642 of that link--I perhaps need to take another look. The irony is that it is the very book of Deuteronomy--chapter 28 in particular--that serves as the basis for the consequence of rejecting Jesus and also for disobeying the commandments. Those who followed the Good Shepherd System were led into paradise (the fled to Pella, etc. and escaped the Deuteronomy 28 curses). Those who rejected him therefore could only expect captivity (i.e.the 'negative side' of the Cherubimic duty)--the curses of Deuteronomy to befall them. Around the time James the Just was killed (almost immediately as if that were the triggering event) the hedges of protection were removed from Jerusalem, etc. and the Romans were allowed to proceed with judgement 66AD through 70 A.D. in fulfillment of Daniel 9:26. That is, to look at Deuteronomy as a basis for designating Jesus to be a false prophet is one thing--the evidence? Its an entirely different matter to wholly ignore Deutoronomy 28 and fail to see what was called Roman-Jewish War wasn't mere secular war it was Deuteronomy 28 grade judgement and the captivity that followed likewise.


However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today ...The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. --Deuteronomy 28:15-26 in part

Deuteronomy 28:49-57 in a sense fortells what came at the hands of Rome after Christ was rejected:

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49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/1214.jpg

Josephus and other historians wrote about the horrible consequences of the Roman invasion (http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/desolation/josephus.html) (Rome is often equated with Edom who characterized as being pitiless!) The outcome of the Roman-Jewish wars seems to almost eerily have been a rote fulfillment of Deuteronomy 28 curses with the consequences of the Bar Kochba revolt were reverberations of the same with the Worthless Shepherd prophecy woven in through it all.


Among the residents of the region beyond Jordan was a woman called Mary, daughter of Eleazar, of the village of Bethezuba (the name means "House of Hyssop"). She was well off, and of good family, and had fled to Jerusalem with her relatives, where she became involved with the siege. Most of the property she had packed up and brought with her from Peraea had been plundered by the tyrants [Simon and John, leaders of the Jewish war-effort], and the rest of her treasure, together with such foods as she had been able to procure, was being carried by their henchmen in their daily raids. In her bitter resentment the poor woman cursed and abused these extortioners, and this incensed them against her. However, no one put her to death either from exasperation or pity. She grew weary of trying to find food for her kinsfolk. In any case, it was by now impossible to get any, wherever you tried. Famine gnawed at her vitals, and the fire of rage was ever fiercer than famine. So, driven by fury and want, she committed a crime against nature. Seizing her child, an infant at the breast, she cried, "My poor baby, why should I keep you alive in this world of war and famine? Even if we live till the Romans come, they will make slaves of us; and anyway, hunger will get us before slavery does; and the rebels are crueler than both. Come, be food for me, and an avenging fury to the rebels, and a tale of cold horror to the world to complete the monstrous agony of the Jews." With these words she killed her son, roasted the body, swallowed half of it, and stored the rest in a safe place. But the rebels were on her at once, smelling roasted meat, and threatening to kill her instantly if she did not produce it. She assured them she had saved them a share, and revealed the remains of her child. Seized with horror and stupefaction, they stood paralyzed at the sight. But she said, "This is my own child, and my own handiwork. Eat, for I have eaten already. Do not show yourselves weaker than a woman, or more pitiful than a mother. But if you have pious scruples, and shrink away from human sacrifice, then what I have eaten can count as your share, and I will eat what is left as well." At that they slunk away, trembling, not daring to eat, although they were reluctant to yield even this food to the mother. The whole city soon rang with the abomination. When people heard of it, they shuddered, as though they had done it themselves. --Josephus on the Siege of Jerusalem

Zechariah in a sense could have been said to 'act it out' before it happened, as in: "If you will have no part in my right hand, then here is my left".

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To reiterate they refer to Deuteronomy 22, but SIX chapters later is Deuteronomy 28 which attributes the calamities to judgement or curses. The kingdom DID come then, though it is not a secular kingdom. Jesus has been in session since ~30 AD.


“And the name of the city from that time on will be: the Lord is there.” --Ezekiel 48:35 in part

Some interpret it: "I am is there" or "I am there".


Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. --2 Corinthians 3:17

David Merrill
10-26-15, 02:22 AM
Thank you for your thoughtful responses Allodial.

I actually use this and other forums to hash through my recent hypothesis and usually project the conclusions as I go; so it is a welcome read to find somebody questioning me on my way into convincing myself my interpretations are correct. The recent formulation that seems inconclusive is about Jesus and adopting his Kingship as if that is the bastard son, or his spiritual inheritance, while he was indeed a bastard embarrassment reminding Archelaus of his pubescent recklessness - bedding the Braider maidens.

So is the impact in that Archelaus, upon realizing that the Tetrarch in Jerusalem bedding in adultery the other Tetrarch in Syria's wife (Antipas TETRARCH was in the Jerusalem throne sleeping with Herodias, Philip TETRARCH's wife). This presented an opportunity to impeach Antipas and launching the accusation cost the King (Archelaus) his prophet (John BAPTIST).

So in the Spirit it seems beneficial to understand the truth and adopt Jesus CHRIST for his reconciliation of one with the other. He preached a spiritual inheritance while he was the embarrassing and disowned bastard, and then when reclaimed for political reasons he was willing to dance up the King's Road in the underwear of David to claim his place - even kicking the moneychangers out of the courtyard! - Which might have been a poor political choice of coronation policies...

allodial
10-26-15, 03:33 AM
I'd say the kind of bastardy to be shunned is one where God the Father abandons one as a Son. As in the 'observable model' points to something undesirable on another level even to the extent is calls for a brother to cover his brother's wives and children--ala doctrine of coverture--should he pass away or the like. This kind of coverture is expressed through Jesus too.


If brothers dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without to a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in to her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother to her. --Deuteronomy 25:5 {Clearly, polygyny is not prohibited.} Nonetheless, the 'faith contract' that was presented to Ahaz gives OT evidence of God's ability to facilitate a virgin birth.

I am convinced that Joseph and Mary were rightly betrothed. If Adam was formed from clay, God can in his Providence form a babe from the 'clay' of the womb (the womb is essentially a fertile field for planting man-seeds). Even among sorcerors and witches, the idea of a homunculus is well-known and found acceptable. Why demote God? Mary had faith in what Gabriel said thusly it came to pass: faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of thing not seen. Mary's (some suggest her to have been a northern (Mt. Carmel) Essene) participation in the process was not merely physical.


And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. --Luke 1:26-38

When Jesus approached people who wanted to be healed, their faith was important. For a moment, consider Gabriel approaching Mary concerning the birth of Jesus and how it paralleled how Jesus approached those who sought salvation through healing. Mary gave positive confession and faith. With Jesus healing someone or with Gabriel approaching Mary, both were creative acts bringing a desired result or vision into manifestation: born from above through faith (rather than from below--through fleshly reliance)--get it (even Abraham's story lucidates this in the Isaac vs. Ishmael paradigm)? Faith and works go hand in hand which is why faith without works would be considered to be 'dead' (doubt? debt?--consider the parable of the talents and failure to use the talents (or gifts)).

The thing about Jesus is that a savior was hoped for and faith was held in the manifestation of the Savior for thousands of years. Mary of course, had faith and confessed her faith.


After he had finished all his sayings in the hearing of the people, he entered Capernaum. 2 Now a centurion had a servant[a] who was sick and at the point of death, who was highly valued by him. 3 When the centurion[b] heard about Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his servant. 4 And when they came to Jesus, they pleaded with him earnestly, saying, “He is worthy to have you do this for him, 5 for he loves our nation, and he is the one who built us our synagogue.” 6 And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends, saying to him, “Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof. 7 Therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. 8 For I too am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.” 10 And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the servant well. --Luke 7:1-10

Consider the faith of the Centurion and the doubt among Israel and Judah. Consider thousands of years of collective faith going all the way back to Abraham in support of the manifestation of Jesus (Salvation). Now lest someone make presumptions, I would not be so quick to suggest that Isaiah 7 prophecies the birth of Jesus because effectively unlike Mary, Ahaz and company may have rejected the 'offer' back then.


Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, 11 “Ask a sign of the Lord your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 And he said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.h 15 He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted. 17 The Lord will bring upon you and upon your people and upon your father’s house such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria.” --Isaiah 7:10-17

Did Ahaz have faith? Remember, the model of Jesus healing and requiring faith from the healed or from the requestor? If Ahaz rejected then the offer would have been foreclosed., no? Like Abraham, Noah, etc. Mary accepted and gave faithful confession. Thusly, I would not tend to suggest Isaiah 7 to be a direct prophecy about Jesus because it seems the sign to Ahaz was to come in his lifetime. However, one key point that many might miss is that nothing stopped God from making a similar extension of offer to someone else in the future. Similarly, where does it say in the Tanach that God couldn't or didn't approach others similarly as he approached Abraham?

xparte
10-26-15, 04:08 AM
Secular Patriotism gets betrayed and the heathen peasantry gets oppressed THE NON HEROICS HAVE THE GREATEST HEROIC HISTORICAL MEMORY YET THE HEROIC PEOPLE HAVE NO MEMORY Was i hollerin one underdag maccabee vs antiochus dead elephant make some room . I will impart thank you to the HEROIC on the site those elephant droppers

David Merrill
10-26-15, 04:33 AM
Thank you Xparte. The writing of Pragmatism was in the spirit of radical.

So Allodial, my faith is that God had no need for supernatural stunts. Ergo my post about the supercomputer. I tweaked resonance in reality, the material time-space continuum and out popped the Name of God and the Name of Jesus CHRIST. So I might be biased. The whole thing is supernatural because the natural state of mankind is unity with God.

Thank you though, for somebody as studied as you to support Virgin Birth of Jesus is really worth considering. I have been around Christians lately who are confused on that. They want to give it lip service but as I see it, they detect ritual magic there at some level. - Like a God who toys with the man trying to get into the pool before the Holy Spirit leaves it. How many young women wonder if they can be good as can be and have the God they worship knock them up while they sleep?

allodial
10-26-15, 04:50 AM
Thank you Xparte. The writing of Pragmatism was in the spirit of radical.

So Allodial, my faith is that God had no need for supernatural stunts. Ergo my post about the supercomputer. I tweaked resonance in reality, the material time-space continuum and out popped the Name of God and the Name of Jesus CHRIST. So I might be biased. The whole thing is supernatural because the natural state of mankind is unity with God.

Thank you though, for somebody as studied as you to support Virgin Birth of Jesus is really worth considering. I have been around Christians lately who are confused on that. They want to give it lip service but as I see it, they detect ritual magic there at some level. - Like a God who toys with the man trying to get into the pool before the Holy Spirit leaves it. How many young women wonder if they can be good as can be and have the God they worship knock them up while they sleep?

Perhaps one could rightly say: "Everything is supernatural" or .. "Divine mind is supernatural." As for Virgin Birth, I'd say that findings about quantum physics supports the idea. As for God using supernatural intervention, consider what worldly judges or courts do when they intervene, they use powers typically unavailable to the 'subjects', don't they?

Regarding maidens hoping for in-sleep knockup. Mary was made aware ahead of time of what would transpire, it does not take a knock up in the physical sense. The eggs (passively) are already there awaiting external action. I suspect the Romans and others tried to impose their idea of Zeus' 'travels' upon Isaiah 7 and Luke 1. Over at jewsforjudiasm Isaiah 7 is discussed, but the discussion seems slanted toward being hostile to Roman Catholic interpretation. The saints are saints--they aren't Biblically designated as Protestants or Catholics AFAIK.

Nonetheless, consider this: a pure and holy mind being fertile ground for virgin birth.


“But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen! Thus says the Lord who made you, who formed you from the womb {beten} (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H990&t=KJV) and will help you... --Isaiah 44:1-2 in part

Consider also Isaiah 44:1-2. Consider the word beten and this comes to me now, the word for virgin in Hebrew is betulah (https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H1330).

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"There is no instance where it can be proved that 'almâ designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43 where 'almâ is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac." (R. Laird Harris, et al. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p. 672.)


Remember, the cherubim still guard the way to the Tree of Life--they were part of the temple and atop the Mercy Seat.

Related:
Secrets of the Cherubim (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1860-Secrets-of-the-Cherubim)

Michael Joseph
10-26-15, 12:48 PM
I want this tied back to the guilt trip - Abraham being real or not - that would bring him to the edge of killing Isaac on the Temple Mount (before construction), Mount Moriah. That this was happening at puberty for Isaac brings the Key into focus. This whole deal about sacrifice is upon guilt. In the Bible, because Abraham was half-siblings with Sarah.

I think when the argument is framed within carnality then you might be right in regard to guilt. But to say that one sacrifices only upon guilt, or at least to imply, is not the whole story. When I consider how many times the Scriptures declare that the "heroes" were in some sort of trance it is simply amazing. And we see that there was always a "vision" - such that the prophet or apostle was "in the Spirit". And furthermore, we read that there used to exist "Schools of the Prophets".

But I digress. Upon this concept of sacrifice and guilt - I would propound that there is a higher outworking of this Abraham/Isaac relationship. Notice at once that the story does not speak of Abram but rather Abraham. At this point Lot has been sent away and this Abraham is "climbing the mountain" in consciousness.

Have you ever looked at those pictures that superficially just look like random geometric shapes, that is until you somewhat blur your vision then at once the image appears? And consider that once one sees the image there is no going back. And the one who can see wonders why others cannot see. And yet that is just the way it is. Lot or the Veil remains upon the eyes of many. In regard to Lot, I speak to the "eyes of understanding".

Abraham had to send away Lot. So must everyman [mind]. Now then Isaac is that child of promise birthed by the Higher Self [Abraham]. For Jacob had a ladder. And that ladder went from the Earth to the Heavens. A ladder represents a lower and higher state. Now then in my life I am willing to sacrifice my Isaac [the thing most dear to me] in love. What is the one aspect of man that is most precious? His Own? Is it not his mind which births his will? Are not the thoughts of man as spotted cattle before the Lord?

And how will man sacrifice spotted cattle to the Lord? The sacrifice is unclean! Nevertheless, how can I rationalize God? I can't! Therefore I too tell my servants and my donkeys [carnal stubborn nature] to remain at the base of the mountain - whilst I, and my Isaac climb the mountain.

For how can the student know absent a teacher? And whereof did the teacher obtain? Thusly Abraham climbs the mountain this day with his precious Isaac, to sacrifice in Love in order to know as he is known. There is an Abraham aspect in every single one of us. Just as there is a Sarah aspect in every single one of us. Does not a woman give birth?

But look at this barren woman in Sarah. Hagar is certainly not barren for she is emotion. But Sarah being Spirit is seeing the means to birth the child of promise into mankind - Christ be formed in you. Abram could not impregnate her - only Abraham could get that done!

Poor old Abraham was 90 when he was circumcised in his flesh. Ouch! Look again. 9 is the number of consciousness. Circumcised in his flesh is analogous to being circumcised in the heart. The "tale" speaks to the Mind.

Nevertheless in carnality/guilt one is bound in emotion. For guilt is certainly an emotion. The child of emotion is not Isaac. Emotion births children of desolation - and many are her children.

Isa 54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

Isa 54:2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

Comment: The place of thy tent is thy Mind. Is it not time to send Lot away? Look at the many desolate children birthed from the emotion guilt. See all the ornate buildings - to what end do these structures improve the psyche of man? Does she [guilt] not enrich other men? She indeed brings an apple to the mind- but it is poisoned.


This song comes to mind (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY4GhPx1yTE)

BLBereans
10-26-15, 09:04 PM
I find the use of the word "bastard" when describing Jesus of Nazareth quite curious...

bastard (n.) "illegitimate child," early 13c., from Old French bastard (11c., Modern French bâtard), "acknowledged child of a nobleman by a woman other than his wife," probably from fils de bast "packsaddle son," meaning a child conceived on an improvised bed (saddles often doubled as beds while traveling), with pejorative ending -art (see -ard). Alternative possibly is that the word is from Proto-Germanic *banstiz "barn," equally suggestive of low origin.

Not always regarded as a stigma; the Conqueror is referred to in state documents as "William the Bastard." Figurative sense of "something not pure or genuine" is late 14c.; use as a vulgar term of abuse for a man is attested from 1830. As an adjective from late 14c. Among the "bastard" words in Halliwell-Phillipps' "Dictionary of Archaic and Provincial Words" are avetrol, chance-bairn, by-blow, harecoppe, horcop, and gimbo ("a bastard's bastard").

Also, the modern "knocked up" choice of phrasing for describing Mary's situation, is quite curious as well. I don't quite get the intent or motivation behind that type of derogatory labeling while discussing this topic. It seems you either have averse feelings towards the idea of Jesus as God incarnate or you are just trying to get a rise out of someone. Either way, it is quite a manner you have there. I guess most, like I, just found your commentary as only a slightly amusing take on that specific subject matter.

You manner is akin to a professor who looks over his glasses at the lowly group of initiates who you desire to "teach" and insult at the same time, all the while attempting to mask that tactic with highly polished rhetoric and visual aids. Fascinating stuff.

David Merrill
10-27-15, 12:27 AM
Last night in Christianity Explored I brought up the crux of the religious notions, that Christianity is a guilt based religion.

The churchman in charge insists that the Passover Lamb is a sacrifice. I disagree. If you did not have a big enough family to finish the lamb, then you pooled with your neighbor so to finish the lamb in one sitting. Then again, if there were leftovers the remains were to be burned to ash by morning light. So you have a prescribed menu of lamb, with special instructions to use the blood at slaughter for IDENTIFICATION purposes only; which is to say that the Angel of Death would pass the house over, seeing the lamb's blood on the doorposts. So there seems to be a default condition around human error. If your eyes are bigger than your stomach, the excess is burned like sacrifice.

So I must concede that there might be room for the guilt/sacrifice model around the Passover Lamb, and so the Christians will tell you Jesus fulfilled the Law by his sacrificial Blood after the model of the First Passover. Interestingly the fellow resorted to making my point, by resorting to Hebrews - that passage about Melchizedek. That is my point - a choice - the Levite priests were all about guilt and sacrifice while Melchizedek is Elect of God, pleasing to God.

David Merrill
10-27-15, 07:29 AM
That post sat for a few hours. I was interrupted.

Looking at it, to finish it, I realize it was finished.

That is one source of guilt - letting good food go to waste. I suppose that you could cook it well and it might be good for breakfast or lunch...

This is really the point that jumps out for me though; as I look at the post above. Guilt is the cause of all feelings of separation from God - please call it sin for a moment. We have it ingrained to think of sin as actions but a leopard can viciously kill a baby zebra without sin. Even leave most of it for subsequent animals of the jungle all the way down to the bacteria carried by the flies. There is no associated guilt.

Therefore the LORD gave instructions to sacrifice, should you feel the guilt. Otherwise the natural state is unity. Identify yourself to be of God and in the condition and character of His MESSIAH - Jesus Christ of Nazareth - by whatever name, this condition of balance between the base and the divine.

David Merrill
10-27-15, 07:30 AM
P.S. This of course opens the door for commercial priestcraft.

xparte
10-27-15, 04:54 PM
Throughout his ministry he was accused of being a glutton, a madman, a drunkard, a deceiver, a demon or possessed of the devil, a friend of prostitutes, tax collectors and sinners. He was excommunicated from the synagogue and several times threatened with stoning. His home folks sought to throw him over a cliff.Finally he was betrayed, deserted by his friends, suffered the worst kind of flogging, and was nailed publicly to a wooden cross. He is described in the Bible as "a man of sorrows and familiar with suffering" (Isaiah 53:3). If Jesus is God, then God knows all about suffering.For whatever reason God chose to make people as they are - limited and suffering and subject to sorrows and death - he had the honesty and courage to take his own medicine. Whatever game he is playing with his creation, he has kept his own rules and played fair. He can exact nothing from us that he has not exacted from himself. He has himself gone through the whole human experience, from the trivial irritations of family life and the cramping restrictions of hard work and lack of money to the worst horrors of pain and humiliation, defeat, despair, and death. When he was man, he played the man. He was born in poverty and died in disgrace and thought it all worthwhile.joy is the central feature of life and sorrow is peripheral, because in the gospel the fundamental questions of life are answered and it is the peripheral ones that are relatively unanswered. For the atheist, sorrow is central and joy peripheral, because only the peripheral questions have answers and the central ones remain unanswered.

It is significant that Jesus rose from the dead with a body that still bore the marks of his sufferings in his hands, his feet and his side. Throughout all eternity he will bear those scars. It is because of them that you and I may, if we choose, share that eternity with him as "co-heirs" of his glory (Romans 8:17).Standing somewhere in the shadows you'll find Christ.

Standing somewhere in the shadows you will find him,as you discover yourself
And you'll know him by the nail prints in his hands.Remove Christ and the knowledge of God is questionable. If the knowledge of God is questionable, trusting this unknown God becomes questionable... My Suffering is the evidence against God, and my only reason not to trust him. Christ is our suffering knowledge and is the evidence for God, the reason to trust is eternal The world suffers for trust. Secular/Government has initialized guilt as virtue, When grace is our inherent virtue. As Christ struggled against questionable authority with no trust no contract it exists only without the grace of God. Obtaining. With any legal licence contract getting it and the creation of it, is without grace, not suffering.

BLBereans
10-27-15, 08:46 PM
Last night in Christianity Explored I brought up the crux of the religious notions, that Christianity is a guilt based religion.

The churchman in charge insists that the Passover Lamb is a sacrifice. I disagree. If you did not have a big enough family to finish the lamb, then you pooled with your neighbor so to finish the lamb in one sitting. Then again, if there were leftovers the remains were to be burned to ash by morning light. So you have a prescribed menu of lamb, with special instructions to use the blood at slaughter for IDENTIFICATION purposes only; which is to say that the Angel of Death would pass the house over, seeing the lamb's blood on the doorposts. So there seems to be a default condition around human error. If your eyes are bigger than your stomach, the excess is burned like sacrifice.

So I must concede that there might be room for the guilt/sacrifice model around the Passover Lamb, and so the Christians will tell you Jesus fulfilled the Law by his sacrificial Blood after the model of the First Passover. Interestingly the fellow resorted to making my point, by resorting to Hebrews - that passage about Melchizedek. That is my point - a choice - the Levite priests were all about guilt and sacrifice while Melchizedek is Elect of God, pleasing to God.

One would think that message is something Abraham would of picked up on since he actually encountered Melchizedek and recognized him for who he was, unless...

one is of the opinion that "Abraham and Sarah Never Happened".

That opinion would also be of the ilk who would suggest that there no difference between a leopard who kills by basic animalistic instinct and man who kills for the purpose of sacrifice because he believes His Creator would find him unacceptable otherwise, however misguided that thought process may be.

David Merrill
10-27-15, 09:42 PM
Thank you BL;


Abraham and Sarah may be allegorical metaphor, in my opinion. It is the lesson, the mystery and finding the proper key that seems important.

So with Xparte I once thought the same thing, and thus projected and reflected back through my filters an according interpretation. This is wonderful because I had to rely on the supernatural such that Allodial is doing too. The nice thing is that I do not have to push this on others. I simply let it out there and now people give me feedback and I process that.

The wonderful part is that if you were to view the Roman crucifixion, right side up anyway, as a severe three-hour torture it makes sense - a lot of things. Now we find that Mark, the first Gospel describes Pilate as surprised to hear Jesus was dead and now Joseph of Arimathea is fitting to be in Pilate's company begging for Jesus' body. The Road to Emmeas is where Jesus, hiding his identity finds two men bemoaning the loss of the King whom they were so hoping would free Israel from not only Roman occupation but the Herodean Guard on the Temple Mount, along with all Jewish influence was Babylonian and especially with contracting the drachma and shekel coins were blatantly against the intent of the religion that David had set up there...

It goes on and on. But what I am saying is how if you engage a convolution so that Jesus survived, then spent three years with Paul, Mark as Peter's scribe and Peter in Damascus writing the Book of Mark, as the exiled King of Israel hoping somehow to regain the throne, or at least to preserve his Bloodline with Mary MAGDALENE in Gaul (France), the entire series of events make a lot more coherent sense.

David Merrill
10-27-15, 10:28 PM
P.S. Perhaps nobody explained this survival to Jesus. Sedated by hyssop, fainting in pain with a vinegar sponge bath on his cuts, then you awaken a day or two later in a tomb by yourself. Since you were expecting all along that you would be assassinated and revived somehow three days later - the Worthless Shepherd prophecy can you blame Jesus for thinking he was alive because of Resurrection?

BLBereans
10-27-15, 10:41 PM
Since you find it "nice" that you do not have to push "this" on others, I continue to be only slightly amused by the assertions put forth with such confidence. You are certainly convinced that not only, Jesus "survived" the cross (meaning no death and no resurrection), but also there exists far less coherence if your version of events surrounding Jesus' life and death is not adopted.

Wild, weird stuff indeed!

Have a little fun with this http://www.bookreviews.org/pdf/9634_10647.pdf ; it may shed some light upon the tired notion of Jesus supposedly living out the rest of his life in hiding after Calvary as you suggest.

xparte
10-27-15, 10:57 PM
It is not a question between mysticism and rationality. It is a question between mysticism and madness. For mysticism, and mysticism alone, has kept men sane from the beginning of the world.It is only the Mystic, the man who accepts the contradictions, who can laugh and walk easily through this world.Christ is just to Mystic for some Its us the walking contradictions all acting partly truth and partly fiction skepticism and spiritual ecstacies is a perfectly human and intelligible problem to state, though it may be a difficult problem to solve Christ being God is self contradiction

David Merrill
10-27-15, 11:28 PM
Thanks for the Link. During the Passages exhibit here (Bible Historian Collection) I debunked all the debunking of the Film. There are many distortions and incongruities in these skeptical reviews of the movie. Mostly it is as though nobody reviewing the movie even watched the movie. Even the introduction distorts because the movie is not about how or where Jesus lived after the Crucifixion. It is about the tomb. There are implications but that is not what the documentary is about.

I have the video on disk.


The Lost Tomb of Jesus. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImXzFHZF9xOXZnZWM/view?usp=sharing)

Snippets. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImZTJkMjVjNTYtNDE5OS00YjI4LWJhMjItZmRhZ jM0NDcwY2M4/view?usp=sharing)

David Merrill
10-27-15, 11:30 PM
It is not a question between mysticism and rationality. It is a question between mysticism and madness. For mysticism, and mysticism alone, has kept men sane from the beginning of the world.It is only the Mystic, the man who accepts the contradictions, who can laugh and walk easily through this world.Christ is just to Mystic for some Its us the walking contradictions all acting partly truth and partly fiction skepticism and spiritual ecstacies is a perfectly human and intelligible problem to state, though it may be a difficult problem to solve Christ being God is self contradiction


I like this - crazy!

allodial
10-28-15, 02:21 AM
That post sat for a few hours. I was interrupted.

Looking at it, to finish it, I realize it was finished.

That is one source of guilt - letting good food go to waste. I suppose that you could cook it well and it might be good for breakfast or lunch...

This is really the point that jumps out for me though; as I look at the post above. Guilt is the cause of all feelings of separation from God - please call it sin for a moment. We have it ingrained to think of sin as actions but a leopard can viciously kill a baby zebra without sin. Even leave most of it for subsequent animals of the jungle all the way down to the bacteria carried by the flies. There is no associated guilt.

Therefore the LORD gave instructions to sacrifice, should you feel the guilt. Otherwise the natural state is unity. Identify yourself to be of God and in the condition and character of His MESSIAH - Jesus Christ of Nazareth - by whatever name, this condition of balance between the base and the divine.

First and foremost: animals like that are carnal. However, I have observe animals like that in the wild thousands of times and surprisingly they are not as cruel as the MSM lie that has been told. For example, although a group of lions took down an elephant, the moment they got it down and BEFORE they ate it THEY SUFFOCATED IT by placing their mouths over its trunk to make it pass out then finally die. I discerned that they would not be so cruel as to eat it alive. I myself as my experience has shown when walking in the wild, animals will look at me and keep going. I one case, an animal charged me, I stood my ground, it went RIGHT AROUND ME and kept going. In another, more common, an animal came up rubbed its nose on me and then went about its business. I suppose its my tuning in with God as monks in India suggest they are able to walk among lions because they keep certain things in mind. Mankind was made on a higher level. Beast-level guiltlessness isn't IMHO good for deriving a comparative edification for mankind because men were not intended to be mere beasts. However, they can go down that "beast path" individually of their own election.

The leopard by killing the baby zebra is seeking to feed itself. It is not trying to make a market or engage in baby zebra futures market for speculative purposes. (It might be that 99% of mankind also isn't involved in futures trading, only a select few, but a few 1% just in it for $ rather than for feeding people probably feel guilty at times and aim to pass it off on the 99%.) Similarly, the husband out to feed his family is one thing, but guys just killing deer for fun -- that is obnoxious and against nature IMHO. The North-American 'natives' were more like Hebrews when it came to that kind of thing. They asked for what they needed and the many stories is that an animal would actually come around offer itself to them after their prayers. Again, this wasn't for 'fun' but for to eat.


This is really the point that jumps out for me though; as I look at the post above. Guilt is the cause of all feelings of separation from God - please call it sin for a moment. We have it ingrained to think of sin as actions but a leopard can viciously kill a baby zebra without sin. Even leave most of it for subsequent animals of the jungle all the way down to the bacteria carried by the flies. There is no associated guilt.

Therefore the LORD gave instructions to sacrifice, should you feel the guilt. Otherwise the natural state is unity. Identify yourself to be of God and in the condition and character of His MESSIAH - Jesus Christ of Nazareth - by whatever name, this condition of balance between the base and the divine.

While you might be right to associate "Christianity" in the sense of Simonianism or Gnostic Spindoctoring that is posed as "Christian" (i.e. of the Anointed of God) for hundreds of years as "guilt-oriented". Cain and his progeny used religion as a political tool--to make people controllable and feel guilty. Ergo your observations.

As for the true saints these days from what I have learned the very same OT doctrines are in the NT. The saint's religion isn't about guilt but about GUILT AVOIDANCE and the Blood of the Lamb has an identifying factor ala atonement. The Blood of the Lamb impedes witchcraft and sorcery which in my observation a foundational factor for disdain for the saints: that something or something "dares exist" that cannot be overcome or controlled (SUCH 'INSOLENCE'!) by the mere psychic emanations of those who regard errantly themselves to be God--well it pisses them off or they see a 'challenge' failing to realize the terrible danger they place themselves in by waging war against the Divine. That is because the Divine Mind is supernatural and it is supercarnal.

Its almost mind-boggling that heretical Gnostics could express so much hatred for their very creation and handiwork but yet blame it on those whose identity they aim to malign --those they falsely impersonate and to their very own hurt and demise. But then from observation heretical Gnostics tend to hate creation anyway.

I reiterate, for the saints it is about avoiding guilt rater than guilt. That is the salvation plan is about guilt-avoidance rather than guilt: "Here I will help you remain pure and holy and encourage you and instruct you in the lifestyle to maintain such". And the witches and sorcerers can't breach the walls of a holy household so they encourage sexual depravity--things to put 'holes in the aura' so to speak. Cain's political-tooling "religion" is about guilt and fearmongering. The truth of the Gospel is highly pragmatic. Mistaking the Nimrod and Cain's infrastructure of control for the Christ's lawful assembly is exactly that, a mistake.

If you think theocracy is bad, just consider what it might be like should lawless mage-ocracy ever takes over without Divine Embassy to be found, anywhere.


3139

Imagine heretical Gnostic paradigms ('creation is bad', 'sex is bad', 'the material world is profane', 'everything is bad', 'you should feel guilty for existing', 'you should feel guilty or having children'--this stuff is not scriptural its Gnostic and heretical from the scriptural perspective) in a mix with sound Biblical doctrine and you have a heretical 501(c)(3) Gnostic minister whose purpose is to make everyone feel guilty on Sunday, filling his tip jar on the way out they can assuage the guilt. They don't talk about gifts of the spirit or spiritual warfare--identification by Blood and the intense spiritual covering it would wreck the mind control and sorcery. Blaming the saints for the heretic infiltration seems just not right.

Consider what some are saying about Billy Graham:

3140


He is on public record supporting homosexuality, abortion, his disbelief in a literal hell [which is where we are now -100777.com], his support and practice of infant baptism to save children, his support for the Catholic church's worship of Mary (yet he calls himself a Protestant). He has repeatedly praised infidels and apostates as great Christians. He actively supported the American government policy to fight the Vietnam War. He would not challenge the idea that the Bible is mythology, when directly questioned. The deception doesn't stop with the Protestants, Catholic supporters have been kept in the dark about his abortion views. The deception goes way beyond Protestant, Catholic beliefs.

An insightful Freemason elucidates (http://www.illuminati-news.com/00360.html) the meaning of the so-called "Star of David" (has nothing to do with king David of ancient Israel):


Each individual who is involved in a group is influenced by these egregores. For those that reach for a spiritual connection, the egregore assists and facilitates that connection. This process is unconscious, but is intensified through the initiatic process, which is designed to open the mind to the spiritual through the egregore.

A symbolic representation of this may be had in the examination of the Star of David, an emblem of the divine. The top triangle points the heavens, and to the spirit. The bottom triangle points down, to the material and profane. United, they form a new entity, the six-pointed star that represents the unity of the two, from material to the spirit, connection to the divine.

There is nothing in the Bible that suggests the material to be innately profane. That the material ought not be the object of your adoration or worship, obviously part of the message: but wait a minute the Cain control system can't have you NOT worshiping the material because that might result in loss of control so porn is plentiful, drugs too, "get money" --all pretending to be the doctrine of the saints and alleged "proof" for embarrassment to God of Israel when the Bible suggests no such thing. But the material itself is seen as good. So then people go on and on hating Bible believers when the idea of hating sex or feeling guilty about enjoying life isn't even in the Bible. So its seems mind-boggling to hear a Gnostic express his hatred for what his fellows invented and hold out to be 'Christianity'.

The irony, God made sex so pleasurable, far more interesting and less taxing to roll around with some cute chic of a wife than going about killing your fellows and warmongering. Nope but some geniuses just had to come along to ruin the simple joys in life. Not to mention that Augustine managed to found a way to make warmongering kosher "to the Christian masses".


Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates...

george
10-28-15, 03:52 AM
hi everybody,

it seems impossible to me to find truth outside of myself and so "seeking within" seems less suspicious to me but its not as easy as it "sounds"

also not for nor against the idea of Jesus nor blood sacrifice, I blindly accepted the baptist baptism in my youth and went along that way for many years.

when I started looking into how the KJV came about I started to look outside of it for more about Jesus, now I still consider all possibilities about it but dont subscribe to any of them.

I can maybe relate to where BLBereans is about him surviving the cross. I think it is possible but still not actually convinced Jesus really even existed so I would like to see how those who think he "survived" have made it clear for themselves that he actually ever existed to survive. I have asked about it before.

the story has been told in so many ways.. lately Ive been considering learning ancient languages (or trying to anyway) and even finding where to start has become a task. certainly hebrew would be good but also greek and arimaic but Im finding that those may all have a coomon root from sanskrit, anyone here have any knowledge about this?

also fining phonetician very interesting. seems something happened when man started reading right to left (backwards) something major it seems (spells)

so thats the direction I am considering taking "outside" but its a tall order for me. I have done some meditations for stillness inside of me nothing prescribed or directed though, only quieting the mind and so far Ive learned its not so easy and I have alot more going on inside than I thought I would have had. so far so good but I think I need to actually make it a habit now instead of just occasional.

I can say that wildlife seems to not be as scared of me when I am quiet inside which I find very reassuring.

about them charging.. years ago I was riding my motorbike at night, it was my first time back on the bike after a pretty bad injury from racing. anyway, I was on a powerline trail I was familiar with except one side had been clearcut for new suburban development, it was probably ~100 acres that was heavy woods before but all gone. the other side was still woods. I had stopped because my recent injuries were starting to hurt, it was probably midnight, I had a pack of crackers and a bottle of water so I was munching and from the woods I heard something coming my way and I could tell it was getting faster and closer! so close I was startled and on my keyring I have a tiny one LED flashlight and so I shined it in the direction I heard it and as soon as that tiny LED came on I saw it was a 4pt buck, head down and now 20ft from me! but that tiny light was all it took and he froze. Im certain if I hadnt had that light he would have tried to poke me at the least.

I sensed his anger! he was mad that his habitat was destroyed! had that light on him for a few seconds and then he took off! it was quite an experience. later learned that there are more deer mailings than bear in this region and a couple each year are fatal. I was also thankful I had my leathers on. very thick for racing but I wear them any time I ride ecept in the yard.

Ive also seen an eastern mountain lion which is still and has been considered extinct for more than 50 years while riding my motorbike! I was traveling at a rate of speed that Im sure was way beyond average LOL on a forrest service road in a national forrest area and my Honda with the stock exhaust which are notoriously quiet and (I keep my street legal bikes that way) so I pretty much snuck up on this huge cat so fast to catch him off guard! wow what a sight! huge cat! long tail too! I would not want to be hiking in that area!

sorry, Ive got some wildlife stories.. Hawks will swoop ya too! always wear a helmet! lol

thanks for sharing your thoughts here everyone, you folks are the most highly respected by me no matter what your beliefs or knowledge. I still dont quite trust anybody though but I think I could learn to easier with people such as yourselves here than elsewhere on the net.

thanks

allodial
10-28-15, 04:43 AM
Re: ancient languages
You might take a look at Moses Was Not A Magician and see how the author picks out the ancient Egyptian loan word from the Hebrew/Chaldee text. Phoenician ..very similar to the Hebrew/Chaldee. You might look into ancient Sumerian or Akkadian writings too.

Re: Looking Within
Consider that when Moses came off the mountain he found them worshiping something without. But some suggest not just something, but the Bull of Hathor, a return to the Egypt in a sense?

allodial
10-28-15, 05:26 AM
sorry, Ive got some wildlife stories.. Hawks will swoop ya too! always wear a helmet!

Helmets with eyes painted on the back (http://www.fatcyclist.com/2008/11/24/how-not-to-get-eaten-by-a-mountain-lion/), glow in the dark preferred.

allodial
10-28-15, 05:29 AM
...That opinion would also be of the ilk who would suggest that there no difference between a leopard who kills by basic animalistic instinct and man who kills for the purpose of sacrifice because he believes His Creator would find him unacceptable otherwise, however misguided that thought process may be.

To knowledge, the Romans saw war as a ritual of sacrifice (sacrificing the enemy). AFAIK, capital punishment among the Romans or others was seen as the same. It seems worth concerning that the Judean leadership turned Jesus over to the Romans. Since the scepter had departed from Judah, their authority had diminished--they didn't even have power to execute capital punishment at that point. This written about in the Bible too. That means that they willingly turned him over to the Roman sacrifice ritual. This is explained moreso here: When the Scepter Departed from Judah (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1791-When-the-Scepter-Departed-from-Judah-%28Genesis-Messianic-Prophecy-Fulfilled%29).

Clearly they wanted him dead-dead-dead, so the idea of him 'escaping' is hmmmm. So could we just as easily say that everyone that was ever allegedly martyred or allegedly killed by rogues really didn't die (JFK, MLK, John Lennon). The real question, I suspect, is: Why is it so important to someone or someones* for Jesus to have NOT died?


P.S. Perhaps nobody explained this survival to Jesus. Sedated by hyssop, fainting in pain with a vinegar sponge bath on his cuts, then you awaken a day or two later in a tomb by yourself. Since you were expecting all along that you would be assassinated and revived somehow three days later - the Worthless Shepherd prophecy can you blame Jesus for thinking he was alive because of Resurrection?

There was a time a young man (21 years old) was injured so terribly--my investigation dug up some guys had been put up to it but they had lied and said that a "Black guy" punched him--so badly was he injured the paramedics were afraid to move him from the pavement--they managed to fix a neck brace and left him there. It was clear that he was near death. Even I was wholly convinced he wouldn't make it past a few hours. I made it verbally known my assessment. As I stood there looking at him lay there, the sense I got was that he was fading rapidly--maybe he wouldn't even make it an hour. Someone discerning or overhearing this, cried out "It is not his time dear Lord." They prayed a prayer of intervention, nearly in tears for someone they did not even know. The boy's body all of a sudden jerked. It was the first motion I had seen since I arrived on the scene. It was like all of his muscles tensed his body into an arch. I saw it. For a moment I could have sworn I saw out of the corner of my eye something like light drop from the sky above his body and his body reacted to it. The boy survived. Whenever my forensic assessment has come up against doctors: the chief medical staff have always agreed with me (as in my assessment they proved).

Intercessory prayer is in the OT and the NT. The saints are here for that reason among others. Those with purely sinister intents know this thusly they would like the saints to leave the planet. Consider saints as those with direct link to call "airstrikes" from Heaven and the real reason the enemies of God want them massacred becomes clearer.

Someone else I came across did blind remote viewing session. After the session was said and done, they drew a scene of three trees and a crowd, etc. Unknown to him/her, their target was the crucifixion.

Related:

The Resurrection - Fact Or Fiction? (http://www.remoteviewing.com/remote-viewing-news-articles/the-signal-line/041103/)
The Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus (https://web.archive.org/web/20060104110854/http://www.trvnews.com/tmn/042705/jesusredux.html)

David Merrill
10-28-15, 08:26 AM
While you might be right to associate "Christianity" in the sense of Simonianism or Gnostic Spindoctoring that is posed as "Christian" (i.e. of the Anointed of God) for hundreds of years as "guilt-oriented". Cain and his progeny used religion as a political tool--to make people controllable and feel guilty. Ergo your observations.

As for the true saints these days from what I have learned the very same OT doctrines are in the NT. The saint's religion isn't about guilt but about GUILT AVOIDANCE and the Blood of the Lamb has an identifying factor ala atonement. The Blood of the Lamb impedes witchcraft and sorcery which in my observation a foundational factor for disdain for the saints: that something or something "dares exist" that cannot be overcome or controlled (SUCH 'INSOLENCE'!) by the mere psychic emanations of those who regard errantly themselves to be God--well it pisses them off or they see a 'challenge' failing to realize the terrible danger they place themselves in by waging war against the Divine. That is because the Divine Mind is supernatural and it is supercarnal.

Since this was my point, I simply agree. I am having fun with the discussion. This perspective of a monk, so that the beast rubs his nose or charges around instead of through... Enjoyable.

I watched a doe who had befallen one of the nasty charro cactus and had these baseball-size cactus in her fur. Another doe was trying to remove them from her with a very painful process as you can imagine and I have always wished that I had grabbed a tong from the kitchen drawer and assisted... I presumed they both would have run away.



To knowledge, the Romans saw war as a ritual of sacrifice (sacrificing the enemy). AFAIK, capital punishment among the Romans or others was seen as the same. It seems worth concerning that the Judean leadership turned Jesus over to the Romans. Since the scepter had departed from Judah, their authority had diminished--they didn't even have power to execute capital punishment at that point. This written about in the Bible too. That means that they willingly turned him over to the Roman sacrifice ritual. This is explained moreso here: When the Scepter Departed from Judah (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1791-When-the-Scepter-Departed-from-Judah-%28Genesis-Messianic-Prophecy-Fulfilled%29).

Clearly they wanted him dead-dead-dead, so the idea of him 'escaping' is hmmmm. So could we just as easily say that everyone that was ever allegedly martyred or allegedly killed by rogues really didn't die (JFK, MLK, John Lennon). The real question, I suspect, is: Why is it so important to someone or someones* for Jesus to have NOT died?



There was a time a young man (21 years old) was injured so terribly--my investigation dug up some guys had been put up to it but they had lied and said that a "Black guy" punched him--so badly was he injured the paramedics were afraid to move him from the pavement--they managed to fix a neck brace and left him there. It was clear that he was near death. Even I was wholly convinced he wouldn't make it past a few hours. I made it verbally known my assessment. As I stood there looking at him lay there, the sense I got was that he was fading rapidly--maybe he wouldn't even make it an hour. Someone discerning or overhearing this, cried out "It is not his time dear Lord." They prayed a prayer of intervention, nearly in tears for someone they did not even know. The boy's body all of a sudden jerked. It was the first motion I had seen since I arrived on the scene. It was like all of his muscles tensed his body into an arch. I saw it. For a moment I could have sworn I saw out of the corner of my eye something like light drop from the sky above his body and his body reacted to it. The boy survived. Whenever my forensic assessment has come up against doctors: the chief medical staff have always agreed with me (as in my assessment they proved).

Intercessory prayer is in the OT and the NT. The saints are here for that reason among others. Those with purely sinister intents know this thusly they would like the saints to leave the planet. Consider saints as those with direct link to call "airstrikes" from Heaven and the real reason the enemies of God want them massacred becomes clearer.

Someone else I came across did blind remote viewing session. After the session was said and done, they drew a scene of three trees and a crowd, etc. Unknown to him/her, their target was the crucifixion.

Related:

The Resurrection - Fact Or Fiction? (http://www.remoteviewing.com/remote-viewing-news-articles/the-signal-line/041103/)
The Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus (https://web.archive.org/web/20060104110854/http://www.trvnews.com/tmn/042705/jesusredux.html)


Additional history in the Bible is found at Ezra and Nehemiah. There was an eleven-year civil war when the Jews returned to Israel. The war was between the newly created Jew (Babylon) and the People of the Land - the Israelite. This seems downplayed in current thought. In my understanding among the Christians (we) feel that the only occupant outside the Jews of Israel was Rome. Babylon/Jew had been a foreign occupation for hundreds of years by then. This is why I believe that the Magi visitation was a common commercial oversight. These "kings" were wealthy merchants visiting their colony on the Temple Mount. Tyre, (Tel Aviv) was and maybe still is their coastal colony. This is the essence of METRO (now lately the City of London) - conquer the mind and territorial matters are moot.

The Jews were the conqueror state. The Israelite population lost the war for the Temple Mount. That occupation was too far from Rome so Caesars left it alone, satisfied with a statue or two... and eagle here and there.


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In my pondering this arises as very important when understanding exactly what the Kingdom of David was. In the Jewish mind, Israel had been under conquest since about 522 BC. - When the Jews of Babylon conquered the Temple Mount as found in Nehemiah Chapter 10. This is when they read the Laws of Moses (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImcl9ScFdvdHJjRkU/view?usp=sharing) aloud and adopted signed curse - oaths of office by Constitution (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImVmJQeTR6Vmcxc0U/view?usp=sharing).

David Merrill
10-28-15, 08:34 AM
God is Love, because the Holy Spirit will consistently deliver the correct interpretation from the infinite sea of information in allegorical metaphor created by the ego.

By understanding that the source of A Course in Miracles was Bill THETFORD's pocket-full of leftover LSD from the Cold War, I might be the only student (nearly four years now) who actually embraces the ego.


P.S. The sigil is instilled with personality and becomes an egregore. I always called them "memory clusters" for lack of a better term. Lately I heard Abraham of Abraham HICKS (Eleanor HICKS - channel) said it quite clearly, paraphrasing:


The sure sign you are in spiritual infancy is that you are listening to me.

On Sunday I occasionally visit a sanctuary to watch as through the same hypnosis - mass displacement hysteria - a typical imagination disorder people allow the worship crew, the praise band and the pastor and worship leader in prayer still and subdue the active minds of the congregants and elevate the egregore Jesus CHRIST to a God-Form. Then pass the Collection Plate and instill that guilt so that they will be back next Sunday for the Weekly Glimpse.

allodial
10-28-15, 08:44 AM
Since this was my point, I simply agree. I am having fun with the discussion. This perspective of a monk, so that the beast rubs his nose or charges around instead of through... Enjoyable.

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I'm not a secular-city person (I am tending toward believing that the idea of a city in ancient times wasn't the same as that of today). Cities can be good and fun and might serve a purpose or two. But these days they more and more seem to be psycho-economic traps. I favor the country which is one reason I'm not to fond of HOAs and their municipal-dead-entity law extending themselves so far beyond the city limits. Somewhat related side-note: when St. Louis City and St. Louis County split, for some reason the Roman Catholics chose to remain in the mainly-municipal City leaving the Protestants in the county. St. Louis City is also a county but The City of St. Louis (the municipalities official name) extends to the external borders of that county.


I watched a doe who had befallen one of the nasty charro cactus and had these baseball-size cactus in her fur. Another doe was trying to remove them from her with a very painful process as you can imagine and I have always wished that I had grabbed a tong from the kitchen drawer and assisted... I presumed they both would have run away.

Earlier, I almost also typed a story I had heard about a wild cat that followed a man. The man eventually realized the cat had somehow bitten through its own lip and could not mange to get the tooth free. The man pulled the lip free and the cat happily went back to doing cat things--no doubt after a bit of healing.


Additional history in the Bible is found at Ezra and Nehemiah. There was an eleven-year civil war when the Jews returned to Israel. The war was between the newly created Jew (Babylon) and the People of the Land - the Israelite. This seems downplayed in current thought. In my understanding among the Christians (we) feel that the only occupant outside the Jews of Israel was Rome. Babylon/Jew had been a foreign occupation for hundreds of years by then. This is why I believe that the Magi visitation was a common commercial oversight. These "kings" were wealthy merchants visiting their colony on the Temple Mount. Tyre, (Tel Aviv) was and maybe still is their coastal colony. This is the essence of METRO (now lately the City of London) - conquer the mind and territorial matters are moot.

The Jews were the conqueror state. The Israelite population lost the war for the Temple Mount. That occupation was too far from Rome so Caesars left it alone, satisfied with a statue or two... and eagle here and there.

One might do well to suspect that such is downplayed because those that wish to promote the syncretism and see it as "progress" do not wish to reveal the syncretism's effects on Israel and Judah (it is exactly syncretism which led to divine judgement repeatedly). Consider the heretical Gnostic who "starts a church" thinking he is doing everyone a favor with spotty dust doctrine, making everyone feel guilty for everything until they 'come to the light' and are 'initiated' into the 'mysteries' (i.e. a 'door' for a secret society or mystery school). He thinks himself to be doing them a favor when really he is leading them into captivity and causing them to misidentify themselves (i.e. he is obstructing others from entering where he can't).

http://www.theplaintruth.com/.a/6a00e554d79b0288330120a646f68a970c-800wi

[Sun worship might actually be preferred by those who prefer an impersonal kind of god. Whereas, consider the idea of Joseph's dream where the sun and the moon bowed down to him as affirming the notion of P'tah having created the Sun, the Moon and the Earth.]


Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. Matthew 15:14

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Thusly, Jesus did save Israel, he led them out of the city (eretz Jerusalem) before it was destroyed leaving those who chose identify with the syncretisic system to their own devices. Thus the relevance of the terms "Great Harlot" or 'harlot' to syncretism and her behavior which led her into to trouble vis-a-vis conflict of laws (http://ecclesia.org/truth/contracts.html).


The men from Babylon made Succoth Benoth, the men from Cuthah made Nergal, and the men from Hamath made Ashima; the Avvites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burned their children in the fire as sacrifices to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim. They worshiped the LORD, but they also appointed all sorts of their own people to officiate for them as priests in the shrines at the high places. They worshiped the LORD, but they also served their own gods in accordance with the customs of the nations from which they had been brought. --2 Kings 17:30-33

To this day there are those who praise Solomon (and his alliance with Hiram Abiff) and laud him yet seem to fail to mention his fall into apostasy due taking strange wives (again, syncretism).

Its worth noting that syncretism may always have been an Empire management tool for Rome.


In my pondering this arises as very important when understanding exactly what the Kingdom of David was. In the Jewish mind, Israel had been under conquest since about 522 BC. - When the Jews of Babylon conquered the Temple Mount as found in Nehemiah Chapter 10. This is when they read the Laws of Moses aloud and adopted signed curse - oaths of office by Constitution.

Interestingly, I had this in mind earlier. A Freemason once told me: "A man cannot commit adultery". Of course, inwardly, the Spirit disagreed. Though polygyny may be lawful, a man can perpetrate adultery by going after strange gods (but I suspect that in order to be an infidel you have to first be a fidel). The model of history is that David perpetrated adultery by placing his desire for a man's wife over the law and his relationship with God. Solomon took so many wives to himself (did he violate the king's obligation to refrain from using his office to gather wives to himself?) he took 'strange wives' which led to his apostasy: spiritually and mentally incorporating their ideologies into his world bringing harm to his relationship with the God of his fathers.

Uncanny: adultery rhymes with idolatry (go figure!).


Babylon/Jew had been a foreign occupation for hundreds of years by then. This is why I believe that the Magi visitation was a common commercial oversight. These "kings" were wealthy merchants visiting their colony on the Temple Mount. Tyre, (Tel Aviv) was and maybe still is their coastal colony. This is the essence of METRO (now lately the City of London) - conquer the mind and territorial matters are moot.

The Magi visitation is quite interesting. I have a similar take in that, to get it one has to go back to Darius or the Babylonian exile period generally. But of course, modern Babylon doesn't want to reveal itself to Christians since such might scare them off.


But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

Once upon a time, when prompted, I shared with a school teacher my interpretation in that that Daniel & co. rejecting the Babylonian royal bread and wine food paralleled rejection of a Babylonian education or indoctrination (much like modern public education)--she did not like that (i.e. Daniel did not wish to study the Babylonian mysteries with a view to incorporating them into his reality as truths). Thusly, Daniel and co. steered away from the syncretism though others may have gone headfirst into it.

You might find this interesting: The Third Temple of YHVH (http://www.sabbathcovenant.com/christianitythegreatdeception/TheThirdTemple.htm). He makes an interesting reference to Rev. 21:22:


"I did not see a temple in the city, because the (sons of) YHVH Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." --from site


On Sunday I occasionally visit a sanctuary to watch as through the same hypnosis - mass displacement hysteria - a typical imagination disorder people allow the worship crew, the praise band and the pastor and worship leader in prayer still and subdue the active minds of the congregants and elevate the egregore Jesus CHRIST to a God-Form. Then pass the Collection Plate and instill that guilt so that they will be back next Sunday for the Weekly Glimpse.

You see, the way the Worthless Shepherd prophecy works its way into that kind of thing is the counterfeit doesn't necessarily bring deliverance. Empty pockets? Guilt? Maybe. Deliverance? Not necessarily. Though some might find an aha in the counterfeit or "false christ", the de jure remains valid.

Conflict of laws also rears its head with things like International Building Code and administrative law. I suppose it really does come down to identity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQU02n358VY

In Once Upon A Time In Mexico, Johnny Depp plays a CIA agent in Mexico. Conflict of laws and identity issues all rolled into one film. Notably, there are 31 states of Mexico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mexican_states_by_area) (some, if not all, predate the existence of Mexico) and a Federal District.

Related:

The Woman Atop the Beast (http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/pw/k/473/printer/friendly)
The Subtle Sin of Syncretism (https://www.growingchristians.org/devotions/the-subtle-sin-of-syncretism/)

David Merrill
10-28-15, 01:45 PM
The constitutional conflicts go on around METRO organization. I recall how easily the archive supervisor gave me the free run of copying anything I wanted - like a priest.




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David Merrill
10-28-15, 02:08 PM
The methodology here in the Territorial Capitol (Colorado) would seem to be that one fudges up the oath of office just enough to negate the bond, while making me look like an irrational pill for calling them on it. I have been showing about that lately. While looking for images in my METRO folder I came across:



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allodial
10-28-15, 02:17 PM
Perhaps there are at least two (competing) systems running in parallel. 1313 East 60th Street is Chapin Hall at University of Chicago. From a geographic standpoint, its located on an island ("Blue Island" if I recall correctly).

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In the map, 1313 East 60th Street is just south of where it reads "HYDE PARK". With river to the north and to the south, that and the Chicago Loop along with the CBOT are located on an island. The little white band (road) south of where it reads "NEAR NORTH SIDE" hides the length of river that runs east and west into Lake Michigan.


The methodology here in the Territorial Capitol (Colorado) would seem to be that one fudges up the oath of office just enough to negate the bond, while making me look like an irrational pill for calling them on it. I have been showing about that lately. While looking for images in my METRO folder I came across:



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Didn't OBAMA and ROBERTS fudge the U.S. presidential oath?


In my pondering this arises as very important when understanding exactly what the Kingdom of David was. In the Jewish mind, Israel had been under conquest since about 522 BC. - When the Jews of Babylon conquered the Temple Mount as found in Nehemiah Chapter 10. This is when they read the Laws of Moses aloud and adopted signed curse - oaths of office by Constitution.

I meant to add that: the Kingdom of David might be best comprehended in light of the Tabernacle of David (https://whatheisteachingme.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/the-tabernacle-of-david/).

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David Merrill
10-28-15, 04:16 PM
Yes. That might be helpful - presuming that the tabernacle of David is the same dimensions (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImZm92OWJYclVucGM/view?usp=sharing).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXeeAOw4yN4


That brings back my point about the Law and the Veil. If one is viewing the Shed Blood of Jesus as sacrificial then they rebuild the Veil. If they view the same shed blood in light that the Passover Lamb's blood was for identification only, then this is about the Veil parting for those who understand, but the sacrificial system being there for those in the outer court. After all, one was to burn the leftovers to ash before the dawn.

Also the manna from heaven went bad before morning.

I am left to remind the reader my point was that the yearning for the Kingdom of Heaven in the Bible, as spoken of around Jesus' time was that the people were yearning for the Temple Mount back, from the Babylonian Jews who took it during Darius rule. Not just from the Romans.

xparte
10-28-15, 05:37 PM
Adultery and Idolatry is committed, with forbidden sex Carnal worship what is a false god compared to his false devils With Idolatry making men afraid of war and each other and his economic law,The Carnal Confusion allows us to be afraid of personal loss only, forget our spiritual corruption and cowardice when worship is false to begin with. If you are familiar with this Bible story, you know that hours before his entrance into city Jesus asked two of his disciples to fetch a donkey from a neighboring village that had never been ridden or wanted. He knew that only an outcast ANIMAL just like himself could properly handle the job and be deserving of such an honor. My requirements. Without a doubt, this misunderstood donkey had his “One far fierce hour. as we might expect our finest hour to be.Why we can worship that 15 minutes as a falsified hr is not the donkeys
destiny or ours.
Animals teach us a lesson about self-worth. Like the donkey, we all have been teased and made to feel small by unkind people . Despite doing great things, outcasts are rarely seen for all that they are. A exterior is never allowed to feel good . Yet, Christ picked a donkey, like Christ we are given our time to shine and show that potential kindness to the ASS NEXT DOOR or DMV IRS. Unfortunately, like the biblical donkey , TIME is far too fleeting its only in spiritual time. Idolatry or Adultery a quick return to reality or the darkness (whether it be an actual place or just a section in your mind) Ones greatness could be just around the corner and it would be a shame to miss it. Christ riding the ugly truth.Why animals are guilt free is they just got know choice. whats a donkey know u ask .just who he lets ride his ass. The wild life george trust is light trust shines within animals sense trust and kindness we have falsified it trust . one friend at a time .Lion is pride Donkey is just stubborn like us the buck is rukus lets rack handlebars george in the headlights.happy trails and bear spray

allodial
10-28-15, 11:10 PM
Yes. That might be helpful - presuming that the tabernacle of David is the same dimensions (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImZm92OWJYclVucGM/view?usp=sharing).


...

That brings back my point about the Law and the Veil. If one is viewing the Shed Blood of Jesus as sacrificial then they rebuild the Veil. If they view the same shed blood in light that the Passover Lamb's blood was for identification only, then this is about the Veil parting for those who understand, but the sacrificial system being there for those in the outer court. After all, one was to burn the leftovers to ash before the dawn.

Also the manna from heaven went bad before morning.

I am left to remind the reader my point was that the yearning for the Kingdom of Heaven in the Bible, as spoken of around Jesus' time was that the people were yearning for the Temple Mount back, from the Babylonian Jews who took it during Darius rule. Not just from the Romans.

I was taught that one reason they disdained Jesus was because they were afraid of what he would do to them should he wield a full scepter. Thus the Babylonians were likely aware of their intrusion and saw Jesus (Yesha/Yasha are roots meaning 'savior'). Would not the most Babylonian of all of Jesus' opponents have been the Pharisees? Who opposed him the most fervently? Why did Jesus speak of the Pharisees as if they were in some regard strangers? Did he know something about them that set them doctrinally apart from the remnant of Israel of Galilee and Mt. Carmel?

From your own statement, then it seems you get why they would have wanted Jesus dead and with such a conspiracy against him, his escaping the cross would have been very unlikely. He didn't need to play tricks with Judas because they had wanted him dead long before the crucifixion took place. On another slant, some might look at it like this: Essau/Edom was enjoying standing on Jacob's birthright too much to give it up. Essau/Edom had been waiting a long, long time. From your statements, Herod and his Massacre of the Innocents is about thwarting the advent of the savior of Israel (http://www.cepher.net/how-is-the-name-of-the-savior-transliterated.aspx).

Consider also that Paul was a Benjaminite. At the time of Jesus's birth, northern part of the land was inhabited mainly by Benjaminites. Mt. Carmel was said to be mainly populated by northern Essenes and the Q'mran area by southern Essenes who had different style of doctrine than the northern Essenes (Mary is said to have been of the northern Essenes).

Re: Identification With the Blood
Consider, this was taught to me very early on: the atoning power of the blood even in the OT days was always operative through faith. Looking on the bronze statute in the wilderness was operative through faith. Faith was always the operative key. So perhaps one can rightly draw a line between those who view the flesh of the Passover lamb as saving them (saving their bodies from hunger?) as being fixated on what they can see and experience in the carnal and those who are operative by faith in viewing the blood (sprinkled by the high priest) as saving or atoning--they have faith in "the Passover Contract". As in, those who have faith in the contract put the blood on the doorposts to identify--as a signal as to who they are. Today, they verbally 'plead the blood'.

David Merrill
10-28-15, 11:25 PM
Thanks for the donkey metaphor. I enjoy going through that mental model with you X.

Allodial - something makes a lot more sense about responsibility when you understand that an execution crucifixion required no nails. The Roman soldiers would simply tie the man to so tree or an X with him upside down. He would die in an hour or two.

But I would like you to review what Jesus said to the two "thieves" that we being tortured with Jesus. Remember the one took responsibility for his crime and Jesus told him he would see the Kingdom this day. It makes sense that Jesus knew they would all be surviving the night - barring infection from the puncture wounds.

allodial
10-29-15, 12:58 AM
Thanks for the donkey metaphor. I enjoy going through that mental model with you X.

Allodial - something makes a lot more sense about responsibility when you understand that an execution crucifixion required no nails. The Roman soldiers would simply tie the man to so tree or an X with him upside down. He would die in an hour or two.

But I would like you to review what Jesus said to the two "thieves" that we being tortured with Jesus. Remember the one took responsibility for his crime and Jesus told him he would see the Kingdom this day. It makes sense that Jesus knew they would all be surviving the night - barring infection from the puncture wounds.

Its worth noting that Rome gave its own spin to the events that transpired. The baby remaining distinct from the bathwater. That is should a false spin be proven wrong, the Bible isn't necessary proven wrong. AFAIK, the Bible itself identifies Rome with Babylon. To this day, the Bishop of Rome (aka the Pope) carries the Babylonian mantle in consequence of Atallus III bequeating his kingdom to the Romans and the merger of Roman (Etruscan) and Babylonian systems starting with Julius Caesar.

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Zarathustra

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The late Pope John Paull II.

David Merrill
10-29-15, 01:01 AM
That's right! Thanks for reminding me...

allodial
10-29-15, 01:21 AM
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And so Daniel's vision is shown to this day to be startlingly accurate--the link from Babylon to Rome (though obscured) is bona-fide and historically evidenced (vis-a-vis Attalus III) through systematic integration.

Related:
2nd Esdras Part I (http://www.chn-net.com/watcher/teachings/esdras2_part1.html) ("the Eagles Vision" / CHN)
2nd Esdras Part II (http://www.chn-net.com/watcher/teachings/esdras2_part2.html) ("the Eagles Vision" / CHN)

xparte
10-29-15, 01:54 AM
When the soul passes a breaking point -- and does not break or die. Might be a emotional suggestion that the author of all things God as Christ went not only through agony, but through doubt ?as we must face pain of death and our doubts. It is written, "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Lord thy God may tempt Himself is this what happened in Gethsemane. In a Gods garden Satan tempted man: and in Mans garden God tempted God. I am not being clever nor prolific as its a fair concern of mine that a preparedness or willingness of God is to return us to grace as its not a temptation. A crucifixion was equivalent as any human horror no pessimism until the world shook and the sun was wiped out of heaven, it was not at the crucifixion itself as its common ask any thief, but with that cry from the cross: the cry which confessed that God has forsaken himself for who. find another god who has himself been in revolt for his creation only one divinity who ever uttered our isolation If choice was a thief your as guilty as Sin My honest understanding i equate choice as a thief as Christ knows what was stolen from the thief in the first place.Every one is equal to doubt cause know thief can use it.This speculation explains nothing but thats not why its here.Explanations give rise to doubt [explain that]

David Merrill
10-29-15, 01:10 PM
My explanations are designed for the reader to explore and hopefully find contributions that teach me in turn. The correlation of the POPE's hat with the DAGON of Babylon for example. Thank you Allodial for these confirmations I am not the first to discover the cover-up.



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The Doubt that Jesus felt, according to the Gospel of Pragmatism was when he realized that he was indeed being rendered unconscious with the hyssop and vinegar sponge-bath. This was the ultimate immentization of the Christian Eschaton. He was pushing His Place as the MESSIAH by an act of trick or treat.

xparte
10-29-15, 05:15 PM
As one with a resolvable doubt and the author of the messiah to start with was necessary for a greater cover up [Prophecy] Crucifixion It was an absurd and obscene kind of impaling reserved for people who were made to be laughed at...for slaves thieves and provincials and tradesmen, King of the Jews and a King of Pragmatism was no trick and its a real treat To follow God Every one is equal to doubt cause know thief can use it.This speculation explains nothing but thats not why its here.Explanations give rise to doubt [explain that] this statement was me being rhetorical at my own doubts as self doubt and sharing its Explanations has no immentizations Christ wasnt searching for a better explanation.

David Merrill
10-29-15, 08:16 PM
Thank you. I appreciate that you are mindful in your responses.

xparte
10-29-15, 11:00 PM
Thank God we need no Explanation for doing Good as it is not enough for God to seperate man from Himself so that makind will love Him–this seperation has to be reflected back into God Himself, so that God is abandoned by himself. Pride and loving oneself or full of yourself Each mans humility needs no explanation as its not fascinating Its Christs humility that endures and endears .Getting arrested no doubt humility is all in your head. Thank each and all as every one is just between [Certificates ] The balance is what we share. What other philosophy makes God actually rejoice in the seperation of the universe into living souls. Dark Matter Light Matter We Matter

allodial
10-30-15, 06:09 AM
And now for some entertainment. Or is it more than that? This old song popped in my head for some reason, so, here ya go. Maybe they knew something most people didn't know back in 1989.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtcCwl_sUWw

Voices Of Babylon
Performed by the Outfield

Hit the message I can hear you calling
No one's going anywhere tonight
We conceived a modern generation
It was free but now we pay the price

We're the victims of our own creation
Chasing rainbows that are painted black or white
Watch the struggle of our own temptation
Instincts barely keeping us alive

Back to the rhythm that we all came from
Voices of Babylon, streets of London
Back to the people that we know so well
A space in time removed too soon to tell

Just a product of imagination
Patiently we wait for our turn to come
A small collection of the population
By the time our number's up, we could be gone

Back to the rhythm that we all came from
Voices of Babylon, streets of London
Back to the people that we know so well
A space in time removed too soon to tell

Back to the rhythm that we all came from
Voices of Babylon streets of London town

xparte
10-30-15, 08:18 AM
Class is just being able to afford everything on the menu and never paying for it. a musicial answer it seems i cant post a 6 min video if i could this is it https://youtu.be/3N_rNz2oAGA Fox on the HILL go see that Fox Christ and the wall builders .

BLBereans
10-30-15, 11:52 PM
Perhaps we need to start distinguishing between the "Roman/Babylonian Christianity" and the true saints as allodial has so clearly elucidated. Having a discussion whereby the two are lumped together by some and not by others creates fruitless discourse.

Also, the historical facts of Jesus' life and death far outweigh the theory that Jesus lived out the rest of his life in obscurity after the crucifixion, in my opinion.

Did Jesus Exist? (http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/#note37r)

David Merrill
10-31-15, 12:55 AM
Perhaps we need to start distinguishing between the "Roman/Babylonian Christianity" and the true saints as allodial has so clearly elucidated. Having a discussion whereby the two are lumped together by some and not by others creates fruitless discourse.

Also, the historical facts of Jesus' life and death far outweigh the theory that Jesus lived out the rest of his life in obscurity after the crucifixion, in my opinion.

Did Jesus Exist? (http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/#note37r)

It took me a few years but I have quit judging my own ego.

If it serves you to make the distinction great.

I know a woman who is into Abraham HICKS - this is Eleanor HICKS channeling an entity named Abraham. I do not go there much except with ACIM (A Course in Miracles) but I heard a great quote from Abraham. Paraphrasing Abraham said, "The sure sign that you are in spiritual infancy is that you are listening to me."

That got me chuckling!

allodial
10-31-15, 02:00 AM
Chanelling Abraham HICKS of course entirely different from being in the presence of God. However, legitimate praise and worship at congregation meetings of the saints put the attendees strongly in the presence of God (in contrast to the separation of the Garden), ala Psalms 100:4 (a well concealed but powerful 'recipe' for intense communion with God):


Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name. --Psalm 100:4

That is to say, Psalms 100:4 answers two questions: (1) How do you enter into God's gates? and (2) How do you enter into God's courts? It is 100% verifiable by direct experience. One does not need shiny shoes and glittering jewels. This is why I would suggest that to really comprehend the Kingdom of David, one has to get one's head around the Tabernacle of David. David comprehended this. This very much relates to the incense wafting up into the Holy of Holies in the temple model.

http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3151&d=1446043048

Perhaps Thanksgiving is one doorkeeper and Praise might be another? Or perhaps the doorkeepers (cherubim?) only allow you to stand in the gate with thanksgiving and to go beyond the gate with praise. Consider "the Lord's Prayer" starts with blessing His name.


Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. --Hebrews 4:16

Related:

The Treasury of David (Charles H. Spurgeon) on Psalms 100:4 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/treasury-of-david/psalms-100-4.html)

David Merrill
10-31-15, 10:57 AM
I saw a great movie about quantum physics called Tomorrow World. George CLOONEY is grumpy throughout but does a great job. There are two wolves always fighting with each other. One is Fear and Despair. The Other is Love and Hope. The Question is, Which one wins?


ANSWER: The wolf that you feed.


I said it out loud in conversation the other day. But it did not sink in what I had said. All this fictitious entity nonsense is fed and justified by the belief in the initial accusation against God of necromancy, that the God of Abraham would ever reanimate Jesus or any other unnatural (supernatural) act. - And so the attempt to quash Pragmatism.

In the doctrine Pragmatism Peter (BARRABAS - "My Father's Son" was alias) remains living around Jerusalem while Jesus moves north to Damascus (METRO organization, the oldest Capitol City). Shaul is an ugly bald Benjamite from Tarsus who is so desperate for a Herodean wife that he takes on the risky job of capturing Jesus. His offer of bounty hunter is accepted by the Guard but Peter gets wind somehow and runs up to Damascus to warn Jesus. Swords are at a premium but recall that Peter is a violence-prone fellow and has a couple swords in his possession. So Jesus and Peter come back a little on the Road to Damascus and isolate Shaul/Paul during their siesta with Peter armed with a sword. The event converts Shaul to Paul in the classical sense but we also find that Paul spent three years conversing with Jesus. Therefore we find that Mark was indeed a wealthy scribe (able to supply paper and ink) for Peter and with Jesus and Paul consulting up in the Jewish community of Damascus they write the first Gospel - the Book of Mark.

This Gospel amplifies how Jesus was hopeful that even with surviving the sword of Judas, and the subsequent torture staging his death, there might still be a chance for the throne as King of Israel. - Or maybe even his offspring, kept in Gaul (France) with his wife Mary MAGDALENE. So this is why we find an emphasis on Paul's correct feeling that the pagans of Asia Minor (Turkey) would be readily adopting the notions of life, death and rebirth with Jesus revealing himself survived as initially depicted - The Road to Emmeas. Remember? Jesus was incognito, but the two men were grieving so how the King had died (or so they believed) that Jesus pulled off his hood and showed them he had survived?

I do not prod the faithful selfishly.

What I am describing here is the simple notion that all this "being able to sue, and be sued" like corporations, trusts and contract agreements are living PERSONS stems from a justification in rationale that God originally did this necromancy with Jesus.

The "proof" otherwise is by law the distinction between 501(c)(3) and 508(c)(1)(a) in the IRS Code. The first, typical and proclaiming death upon every congregant accuses God of necromancy. The latter, the living church (Pragmatism) believes that the universe is a spiritual and supernatural phenomenon and all existence is the byproduct of ritual magic. The only permanent item is Love and Hope.

Therefore I might simplify the emotions you offer to that. Love and Hope. Feed the right wolf.

BLBereans
10-31-15, 02:11 PM
The God of necromancy... you really keep me in a chuckling state as well, thanks for that.

I agree with your description of the two codes (as best as one can when trying to decipher legalese) regarding 501 c 3 proclaiming death and 508 c 1 proclaiming life. However, I disagree with how you wrap it up. There exists a distinction between how the ROMAN church, and all of its stemming franchises of denominational Christianity, views the death and resurrection of Jesus as compared with how the true saints view it. Proof of that lies in the persecution and murder of these saints by the ROMAN church throughout history while being mostly obscured and barely talked about.

I may tend to agree with your "pragmatic" view regarding ROMAN Christianity and its use of Jesus' death, Mary worship and the worship of the apostles as "elite" super-saints as some form of witchcraft, divination and black magic. It's quite obvious just by observing the costumes, rituals and chanting (in the form of repetitive prayers) in order to make "penance". The modern denominational off-shoots of this ROMAN religion may not practice exactly as the original, but enough of the organization, rituals and form of "Church Hierarchy" has remained. Allodial has provided much insight and study material to back that up.

Does it serve me to make the distinction? Yes, I believe it does. More importantly, however, I also believe it serves this discussion and forum if we claim to be after what is true.

BLBereans
10-31-15, 02:25 PM
Also, the historical facts of Jesus' life and death far outweigh the theory that Jesus lived out the rest of his life in obscurity after the crucifixion, in my opinion.

Did Jesus Exist? (http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/#note37r)

An excerpt from the above link..

As far as we know, no ancient person ever seriously argued that Jesus did not exist. Referring to the first several centuries C.E., even a scholar as cautious and thorough as Robert Van Voorst freely observes, “… No pagans and Jews who opposed Christianity denied Jesus’ historicity or even questioned it.”

Nondenial of Jesus’ existence is particularly notable in rabbinic writings of those first several centuries C.E.: “… If anyone in the ancient world had a reason to dislike the Christian faith, it was the rabbis. To argue successfully that Jesus never existed but was a creation of early Christians would have been the most effective polemic against Christianity … Yet all Jewish sources treated Jesus as a fully historical person … The rabbis … used the real events of Jesus’ life against him” (Van Voorst).

Thus his birth, ministry and death occasioned claims that his birth was illegitimate and that he performed miracles by evil magic, encouraged apostasy and was justly executed for his own sins. But they do not deny his existence.

David Merrill
10-31-15, 02:26 PM
Yes BL; that is the claim;


Peace and joy are found in the truth.

I know you might have written more into your post provided the time. So I will simply ask the reader to combine Babylon with Rome like in the culture of Israel from 520 BC had it. Then also consider that the doctrine of Christianity, the Epistles of Paul, were put to writing by and large while Paul was in Roman protective custody, in Rome. Romans 13 for example was written by a Roman citizen.

BLBereans
10-31-15, 02:46 PM
Interesting take on Paul. The idea that: instead of seeking asylum and protection as a willing Roman citizen, he was jailed against his will and used the opportunity to write Divinely inspired scripture is dismissed by you as faulty and archaic? I suppose we all need to justify our foundational beliefs by interpreting events and history in a way that fits our understanding.

The belief that matter and the physical realm is either an illusion or inherently bad leads to certain interpretations. The belief that matter and the physical realm is real and was created by our supernatural and spiritual Father in Heaven as "good" leads to other interpretations.

The beauty of it is that God is pro-choice. He did not create programmed robots to obey Him mindlessly; He created us with the ability to think and choose what we will believe and who we will worship. We will all get exactly what we want in the end.

David Merrill
10-31-15, 08:11 PM
Paul was in protective custody because the Sanhedrin had a capital conviction for treason against Israel. At least that is my reading. Two years in Tyre under jail conditions followed by maybe three years in Rome. Paul's choice was to risk the Sanhedrin capturing and executing him.

allodial
10-31-15, 09:11 PM
Even if you take everything Paul said out of the NT texts, and leave only the OT and the four gospels, you still have a consistency. All of the Epistles were internal to the Christ's assembly. Furthermore, the events surrounding Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection caused many Romans to really consider the difference between the doctrines of the Pharisees and the doctrines that Jesus taught.

Re: Abraham & Guilt
I'm not sure why Abraham would have had a reason to feel guilty about having married his half sister especially with the likelihood of him being among the exempted royalty class and that he was not under Mosaic law. Mosaic law was specific to a period. This doesn't mean that similar laws would be lacking. But Moses was over Israel subsequent to the exodus from Egypt. I'm not sure why that would be construed to have made Moses into a universal sovereign or trustee over all mankind.

Re: Paul & Moses
The parallels between Moses and Paul are astonishingly worth looking into. If one can ask "Where did Paul get the right or authority?" One can also ponder the same regarding Moses.

Re: Babylon, Rome and Salvation
That God was not out to protect the syncretism that resulted from Babylonian occupation or exile is clear in the Pentateuch alone.

Re: Resurrection & Necromancy
Furthermore, there is nothing in OT that suggests resurrection by a de jure priest to have been necromancy or for any full resurrection to have been necromancy. Consultation of the dead for divination was AFAIK deemed to be necromancy. If resurrection were necromancy, what of Elijah? What of God giving breath to Adam? What state was Adam in before he was given breath? Alive or dead? Necromancers fiddle around with death for the sake of gaining power or knowledge.

Is an executioner a necromancer? Are those who stone someone necromancers because they bring about death? Then why would someone be a necromancer for bringing about life or giving breath?

Re: Jesus and Moses Parallel
Looking at the text Moses Was Not A Magician (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1057-Moses-Was-Not-A-Magician) we see a parallel in that Jesus said: "Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise."

Re: Paul In Custody
Paul confessed to being a Roman citizen. And the scepter had departed from Judah for over 30 years prior. The Romans under their own law had authority to protect Paul as a Roman citizen from harm from the Sanhedrin which had been stripped of authority exactly as foretold in Genesis:


The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and to him shall the gathering of the people be. Genesis 49:10

It is also translated: "until he to whom it belongs". This is even written about in Rabbinical writings of the time and after--they know the scepter had departed but could not see that the one to whom it belongs had come. Babylonian syncretism perhaps made it difficult to discern? They didn't have authority to execute Jesus, they didn't have authority over Paul either. With Paul being a Roman citizen, the Romans owed him protection.

Re: Deuteronomy Curses & Confusion of Mind
It might be possible that one reason those Pharisees in syncretism could not see is because of the Deuteronomy 28 curses:


"The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. --Deuteronomy 28:28"

Re: Paul
There is at least once instance when Paul speaks his own opinion, he makes it clear that it is his own opinion. That doesn't strike me as something someone with low integrity would do. Those with a knowledge of the OT and NT can nonetheless discern even if Paul were to make a mist-statement.

Re: What Jesus Drew On the Ground
At John 8:6 I know of someone who a vision where I saw what Jesus wrote on the ground. Now I could have dismissed it but shortly thereafter, someone else thousands of miles away saw the same thing and published it online. They were trying to stone a woman for adultery. What else could Jesus draw on the ground but the symbol of their own spiritual adultery--their involvement in a secret society of kind might have something to do with it.

Re: God and the Supernatural
From what I recall, in the OT, during exodus, when there was no water, miracles were used to bring about water. If there was water available, then the miracles were no longer needed.


Yes BL; that is the claim;


Peace and joy are found in the truth.

I know you might have written more into your post provided the time. So I will simply ask the reader to combine Babylon with Rome like in the culture of Israel from 520 BC had it. Then also consider that the doctrine of Christianity, the Epistles of Paul, were put to writing by and large while Paul was in Roman protective custody, in Rome. Romans 13 for example was written by a Roman citizen.

Joseph was placed into Egyptian custody in consequence of his own brothers' crimes. Consider that in some way Moses was in Egyptian custody until the Exodus. Josephus was in Roman custody in consequence of being taken captive. The Babylonian Talmud was written or compiled during Babylonian exile (i.e. i.e. during Babylonian custody). The crown or mantle of Babylon itself came to be in the custody of the (Etruscan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization)) Romans in consequence of Attalus III's will. To this day reign of the king of Babylon continues. On that note, regarding Paul I'm not sure what is so special or outstanding about Paul having been in Roman custody.

David Merrill
11-01-15, 12:46 AM
Even if you take everything Paul said out of the NT texts, and leave only the OT and the four gospels, you still have a consistency. All of the Epistles were internal to the Christ's assembly. Furthermore, the events surrounding Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection caused many Romans to really consider the difference between the doctrines of the Pharisees and the doctrines that Jesus taught.

Thank you for itemizing.


Re: Abraham & Guilt
I'm not sure why Abraham would have had a reason to feel guilty about having married his half sister especially with the likelihood of him being among the exempted royalty class and that he was not under Mosaic law. Mosaic law was specific to a period. This doesn't mean that similar laws would be lacking. But Moses was over Israel subsequent to the exodus from Egypt. I'm not sure why that would be construed to have made Moses into a universal sovereign or trustee over all mankind.

This guilt was a consequence of realizing the nature of natural law. 50% recombined DNA is bad especially when compounded over generations.



Re: Paul & Moses
The parallels between Moses and Paul are astonishingly worth looking into. If one can ask "Where did Paul get the right or authority?" One can also ponder the same regarding Moses.

I can see a few off the bat.


Re: Babylon, Rome and Salvation
That God was not out to protect the syncretism that resulted from Babylonian occupation or exile is clear in the Pentateuch alone.

Please describe... I think I may be miseducated about syncretism.


Re: Resurrection & Necromancy
Furthermore, there is nothing in OT that suggests resurrection by a de jure priest to have been necromancy or for any full resurrection to have been necromancy. Consultation of the dead for divination was AFAIK deemed to be necromancy. If resurrection were necromancy, what of Elijah? What of God giving breath to Adam? What state was Adam in before he was given breath? Alive or dead? Necromancers fiddle around with death for the sake of gaining power or knowledge.

I had to look through several dictionary definitions to apply necromancy to resurrection.


Is an executioner a necromancer? Are those who stone someone necromancers because they bring about death? Then why would someone be a necromancer for bringing about life or giving breath?

No. The executioner kills. It is not necromancy if the executioner does not bring the dead back to life.


Re: Jesus and Moses Parallel
Looking at the text Moses Was Not A Magician (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1057-Moses-Was-Not-A-Magician) we see a parallel in that Jesus said: "Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise."

Agreed. We have the power to heal. Some have tried to master God - cabala.



Re: Paul In Custody
Paul confessed to being a Roman citizen. And the scepter had departed from Judah for over 30 years prior. The Romans under their own law had authority to protect Paul as a Roman citizen from harm from the Sanhedrin which had been stripped of authority exactly as foretold in Genesis:



It is also translated: "until he to whom it belongs". This is even written about in Rabbinical writings of the time and after--they know the scepter had departed but could not see that the one to whom it belongs had come. Babylonian syncretism perhaps made it difficult to discern? They didn't have authority to execute Jesus, they didn't have authority over Paul either. With Paul being a Roman citizen, the Romans owed him protection.

Interesting that they had no authority over Paul? I think that consent was Paul going into Jerusalem.


Re: Deuteronomy Curses & Confusion of Mind
It might be possible that one reason those Pharisees in syncretism could not see is because of the Deuteronomy 28 curses:

Yes!


Re: Paul
There is at least once instance when Paul speaks his own opinion, he makes it clear that it is his own opinion. That doesn't strike me as something someone with low integrity would do. Those with a knowledge of the OT and NT can nonetheless discern even if Paul were to make a mist-statement.

The whole interpretation Pragmatism is about how Paul was a participant in the writing of the Gospel of Mark. I cannot say that I would have stayed for execution.


Re: What Jesus Drew On the Ground
At John 8:6 I know of someone who a vision where I saw what Jesus wrote on the ground. Now I could have dismissed it but shortly thereafter, someone else thousands of miles away saw the same thing and published it online. They were trying to stone a woman for adultery. What else could Jesus draw on the ground but the symbol of their own spiritual adultery--their involvement in a secret society of kind might have something to do with it.

I am curious about that symbol.

I imagine, maybe not a vision that Jesus wrote out the ineffable Name of God and in doing so expressed an authority they associated only with the Cohen Gadol - the high priest.


Re: God and the Supernatural
From what I recall, in the OT, during exodus, when there was no water, miracles were used to bring about water. If there was water available, then the miracles were no longer needed.

I sometimes wonder if the difference between magic and miracles is whether or not you put God out there or are inside Him.




Joseph was placed into Egyptian custody in consequence of his own brothers' crimes. Consider that in some way Moses was in Egyptian custody until the Exodus. Josephus was in Roman custody in consequence of being taken captive. The Babylonian Talmud was written or compiled during Babylonian exile (i.e. i.e. during Babylonian custody). The crown or mantle of Babylon itself came to be in the custody of the (Etruscan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization)) Romans in consequence of Attalus III's will. To this day reign of the king of Babylon continues. On that note, regarding Paul I'm not sure what is so special or outstanding about Paul having been in Roman custody.

xparte
11-01-15, 02:05 AM
If i understand why two thief's and Christ shared the same fate but not all 3 had the same destiny why is CAPITAL CRIME and theft the distinctive feature or dominant idea in an artistic or literary composition.now before us BLB i enjoy allodial ease and organization on any title/topic and Davids rocky moutain high in the Colorado neon cold beer refreshing disscusions and MJ with a Texas size try this first all horns in. and BLB your willingness to chuckle for that Abraham Hicks his/hers message its not my two thieves science thats agreeing that Christ was talking for God and the conversation got distorted only one thief got the message all Christ,s have the same message if one adds or subtracts a message is that just a thief's doing his [JOB] supersaturation just following orders and we know that never works on a final judgement Gods truth is nature distorted by who else but his creation can compliment the message or complicate it both at the same time the [thief ] betray one thief or meet nature in the middle no empty crosses just one message is to great for a tomb. a message in LATIN means papal/bill Christ is a True Bill a message thats registered never comes guilt/or debt free.

allodial
11-01-15, 02:44 AM
This guilt was a consequence of realizing the nature of natural law. 50% recombined DNA is bad especially when compounded over generations.

That is IMHO presumptive of defect or fallen state. Those in a fallen state might be more likely to compound carnality or flaws. Thusly, they would be restricted from reproduction in close relations. A diverse pool would provide dilution with time, not to mention allowing God to participate in mate selection through prayer, etc.


Please describe... I think I may be miseducated about syncretism.

The mixing of God's truths with those of men's vain imaginations or with false/strange gods--foreign law mixed with domestic law can result in a new system and either way brings the ramifications of conflicts of law. But consider the benevolent side of of exile: if A has a son who was raised in a way contrary to his rules, A's laws requires that he be punished severely but considering that the son was raised contrary he then applies the contrary law by putting the son under the care of of a distant cousin--this way the son avoids punishment but has to leave his father's house (see Genesis 1-4). The placement under the foreign law is a blessing but it does not necessarily directly make the son suitable for direct service of father--but tutors could help him, unless the son rejects the tutors. Someone being placed on probation is much the same.

It seems that with time, Israel and Judah started picking up ideas of nationality and nationhood from foreigners and began to loose sight of the Original Plan. When kings started relying on alliances with Egypt or Assyria, it was clear that they weren't getting the Message.

I'm convinced that Daniel saw the bread and wine of Babylon to be similar but not the same as the bread and wine of Melchezidek, that they were entreating or baiting him into syncretism.


Agreed. We have the power to heal. Some have tried to master God - cabala.

God is very personal, one can simply ask. One doesn't need to study mysticism. When the white cord stopped turning red and years passed, it might be that people started to turn to various practices as a means of finding remedy.


Interesting that they had no authority over Paul? I think that consent was Paul going into Jerusalem.

He might have put himself in harms way by traveling to Jerusalem. Putting a hit on him isn't lawful authority. Consider, while they didn't have lawful and governmental authority to put Jesus to death and so asked Pilate & co. to judge him, the scepter had departed and remained departed even through Paul's sojourn (lifetime).


I am curious about that symbol.

I imagine, maybe not a vision that Jesus wrote out the ineffable Name of God and in doing so expressed an authority they associated only with the Cohen Gadol - the high priest.

Two triangles--one pointing up, one pointing down superimposed on each other. (Some suggest Amost 5:26 (http://biblehub.com/amos/5-26.htm) and Acts 7:43 (http://biblehub.com/acts/7-43.htm) to be pertinent). Something to do with Remphan which is also misspelled easily in Arabic as "Ramadan" (http://www.earlychurchofjesus.org/star_david.htm). However, your idea is plausible. But in the context, their spiritual adultery being pointed out while they accused the woman of adultery makes perfect sense and would be why they made exit--afterall, the law they were alleging to be enforcers of was against they themselves. This also resonates with John 5:45 (hardly 3 chapters before John 8:6) "Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust."


I sometimes wonder if the difference between magic and miracles is whether or not you put God out there or are inside Him.

You know, the revelations I have been given is that pop culture these days has errantly thrown mingled the term magic in with witchcraft. Magic is such a generic term which even used to describe natural phenomena. That is, I came to the conclusion (contrary to pop-armchair programming) that taking a purist view of the word magi/magic (relates to the term magistrate) has to do with applying wisdom--nothing to do with sorcery. We all feel, think or speak and our emotions, thought and speech can affect reality within and without. If we know that giving compliments and saying positive things will inure to better health and relationships, that is wisdom applied--its not subversive and it doesn't necessarily go against any laws. People's thoughts, will and feelings can effect others and this occurs naturally. So I'm not so sure that placing a positive and healthy reign on one's feelings would amount to sorcery or witchcraft. However, for the subverters or poisoners of good and noble things, that might be a wholly different matter.

Each man or child or woman has a domain granted them--especially inwardly. When someone seeks to subvert someone else's domain or will without consent and for unlawful purposes (such as using toxins or mercury--a frequent component of voodoo spells), or if someone seeks to pervert or undermine lawful order even with lies and sophistry--the it might be well to throw up red flags as pertains to witchcraft or sorcery. Witchcraft relates to rebellion for a good reason: subversion of good order (this can be simply through group lying or PSYOPS). Unlike de jure miracles, witchcraft and sorcery may involve appealing to spirits, powers or principalities that are at enmity with God. Witchcraft relates to the word pharmakeia--poisoners of men (consider voodoo even its under the guise of 'vaccinations') or of poisoners of lawful systems/societies (governments, families).

Those miracles associated with Jesus or Moses are said to have purely involved requests made to God or to have been in consequence of faithful reliance upon promises made by God. Consider also their lives being purposed around God's will--which is obviated something like this: love God and love thy neighbor as much as you love yourself (the more you love your yourself the more you'll love your neighbor perhaps?). So AFAIK, exercising divine or lawful spiritual authority, such would neither be witchcraft nor sorcery. In both the OT and the NT authority was given by way of anointing.

A key point being that, there seems to be an intentional spin put to popular language so as to re-color the past. Another method of sedition by syntax? The Constitution has been attacked in that way: project a modern meaning onto a clearly conflicting past meaning as a way of hoodwinking people. Consider that vampires, favored by many these days, seem to be of class of necromancers.

allodial
11-01-15, 05:11 AM
Also, it may very well be that refusal for cause is a way to stave off undesirable and creeping side effects of 'conflict of laws'.

David Merrill
11-01-15, 08:09 AM
Thank you for such a simple take on R4C!

This is what is helpful to me. To be able to speak truthfully in simple terms and in a short enough time to keep the listener's attention.

The conflict of laws is METRO organization public policy verses constitutions and statutes. Like I brought up about the oaths of office. One might use the emotionalism of cyberspace, social media, to sway the audience to persuade the judge that this is the best thing, NOT to hear the case at all.




If i understand why two thief's and Christ shared the same fate but not all 3 had the same destiny why is CAPITAL CRIME and theft the distinctive feature or dominant idea in an artistic or literary composition.now before us BLB i enjoy allodial ease and organization and Davids rocky moutain high in the Colorado neon cold beer disscusions and MJ with a Texas size try this first . and BLB your willingness to chuckle for that Hicks his two thieves science Christ was talking God and

Again, I enjoy a quick overview from observer perspective. My point is focused on the Sanhedrin and other courts were bound by law and so they were not so draconian as to be executing thieves. BARRABAS is believed to be Peter, in Pragmatism anyway, which may be to say that I am the only one who believes it. BARRABAS is like John DOE today - meaning "My Father's Son". So it is much easier to imagine if it was a three-hour torture that Peter might be willing to turn himself in for "Murder" which was the non-capital rendition of carrying a lethal weapon (sword) in Jerusalem during the Holidays in Jerusalem. This scenario straightens out the Jurisdiction too, for Allodial.

Simply put, the Sanhedrin had no punishment statutes severe enough for what Jesus had done. Jesus had rightly accused the Sanhedrin of usury in the worst possible sense - the Gentile moneychangers in the Temple were a Herodean franchise! They confronted Jesus before he did it, about pretending to be King and Jesus revealed that he was crowned by Archelaus' prophet John BAPTIST.

Otherwise what I am doing is reverse engineering the synchrotism. I am finding out in Christianity Explored style classes and prayer studies where these erroneous interpretations originate in the Old Testament. The Sacrifice comes from Abraham on Mount Moriah (Temple Mount) about to execute pubescent Isaac, before a God who allegedly was ordering it out of some insecurity that Abraham believed He existed. The Blood of the Lamb substitution of Jesus on the Cross bleeding for sacrifice goes back to the Passover Lamb; which when you examine closely was not a sacrifice but a form of identification - the Blood of the Lamb.

Now I remind people that both of these have several interpretations. Mine is the simplest for me. Thank you for enduring the discomfort of viewing sacrifice as a way to appease a wrathful God. It strikes me contrary that God is Love, and then again...

allodial
11-01-15, 02:50 PM
re: life, death and the power to give life

Death and life are in the power of the tongue. --Proverbs 18:21

"By the word Jesus declared, 'Lazarus come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face as bound about with a napkin. Jesus SAITH unto them, loose him and let him go.' John 11:43-44" (source: The Tongue: The Rudder of Your Destiny, By Gideon A. Smart).

Hosea references rescue from the hands of Sheol. That is pretty strong and clear language.


"From the hand of Sheol I do ransom them, From death I redeem them, Where is thy plague, O death? Where thy destruction, O Sheol?" --Hosea 13:14 (YLT)

On a similar note, faith in God's promise regarding looking upon the brazen serpent saved Israel from the sting of death. Similarly, faith in God's promise in the NT provided also salvation from the sting of death.


“Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:55-57

Re: the Cross and Brazen Serpent and salvation through believing/faith
The circumstance of the brazen serpent was a very clear OT scenario of salvation through faith--salvation from death by serpent. The cross was yet another circumstance of salvation through faith with Passover-style 'identification'. AFAIK it was always salvation through faith, rather than works. In the OT temple did the congregation do any work or did high priest do the work? The annual sprinkling of the blood it seems was also active through faith. Thus, Hebrews 10:4: "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins".


And Jehovah saith unto Moses, 'Make for thee a burning serpent, and set it on an ensign; and it hath been, every one who is bitten and hath seen it -- he hath lived. --Numbers 21:8

Now consider, the bite should have caused death but it did not for those who looked upon the brazen serpent ('the hair the the dog that bit you' comes to mind). So they SHOULD have technically died, right? But, due to divine intervention, they did not die--they lived.

Re: Abraham and Isaac
I would still suggest that a key point of the Abraham and Isaac scenario was that reverence for living God (rather than idols) and the contrast between Abraham those who willingly sacrificed their children to idols.


The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Proverbs 9:10

The contrast between those of his day who may have readily sacrificed babes to idols and his willingness to sacrifice to a living God + the fact that the sacrifice was not required.

BLBereans
11-01-15, 03:38 PM
Interpretations reflect foundational beliefs.

Allodial has presented, with great clarity, the difference between Christianity derived from ROME and the original intent of God when He became incarnate in the form of Jesus of Nazareth to preach the gospel and redeem His creation.

God's wrath is against evil and those who willingly pursue it. An in-depth study of Levitical Law may reveal that the sacrifices practiced were meant to cleanse the space where prayers were offered, not cleanse the man himself.

The God of order and justice does not simply wipe the slate clean and start over when His creation willfully chooses to seek out knowledge, power and "life" outside of His blessings and Will. When a true debt is incurred, payment must be made to settle it. Mankind incurred the debt of death when trust was placed in someone other than The Creator; yet, God so loved the world...

in order to redeem that debt, He gave His only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

Here is an interesting take on the choice of using the word "begotten".

“Only begotten” is an unfortunately confusing translation, especially for modern readers. It does sound to us as though the “only begotten” Son had a beginning because we aren’t used to the old English word. The confusion should never have happened, though, since monogenes actually doesn’t mean “only begotten.” The controversy extends from an old misunderstanding of the root of the Greek word. For many years monogenes was thought to have derived from two Greek terms, monos (“only”) and gennao (“to beget, bear”). Scholars of Greek linguistics have discovered, though, that the second part of the word monogenes does not come from the Greek verb gennao, but rather the noun genos (“class, kind”). The term literally means “one of a kind” or “unique” with no connotation of time or origin. The validity of this understanding is borne out by the New Testament itself. In Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is called Abraham’s monogenes—but it is crystal clear from the Old Testament that Isaac was not the only son Abraham had begotten, since he had also fathered Ishmael prior to Isaac. The term must mean that Isaac was Abraham’s “unique” son, for he was the son of the covenant promises and the line through which Messiah would come. Many of the more recent versions of the Bible have opted to translate monogenes as “only,” but this confuses readers when they come across references to other sons of God in the Old Testament.

source (http://jollyblogger.typepad.com/jollyblogger/2008/03/only-begotten-o.html)

When Abraham was chosen to be the Father of God's set-apart nation of people, He was tested to ensure that he realized what was necessary to redeem the world. The Isaac test was a message to Abraham, making it clear that the only way to redeem the debt of man was to offer something of such great value that settlement cannot be rightfully denied. Of course, God knew Abraham's heart and his willingness to give his most precious son for the sake of mankind, however, God stopped him since it was only the message of what was to come that He wanted to convey to Abraham. I believe Abraham understood fully the intent behind the request and went on to lead God's special nation of people, though which would be born the savior of mankind.

Wrath has nothing to do with that.

David Merrill
11-01-15, 03:43 PM
We have the power of creation. This is communication. God is supplying infinite energy for us to create the Universe. This is the Gift given by the Holy Spirit - communication/creation. Remember Pentecost? This was the Gift; people were able to communicate freely regardless of what language they were trained in.

The syncretism indeed requires a filtering system offered by the Holy Spirit. The truth is true. Facts cannot be attacked. Rules of evidence play a very important role. The only truly productive use of judgment is whether or not you get joy out of the teaching/learning process. If you receive anything else then you best re-invite the Holy Spirit.



The mixing of God's truths with those of men's vain imaginations or with false/strange gods--foreign law mixed with domestic law can result in a new system and either way brings the ramifications of conflicts of law.

Like I keep saying, the teaching/lesson on my mind lately is division between admiralty and land. Constitutions and laws as opposed to global municipal jurisdiction. I can find remedy either way because I am Patroon. Application of the remedy is a matter of stating my claim clearly. Once this is done I can show everybody what I do with it.

My remedy on land is constitutions and law (statutes from the Congress and general assembly). My remedy on the sea is my "perpetual inheritance". All in all it comes down to whether I feel the Shed Blood of Jesus was sacrificial or for identification purposes only. This takes us back to the Veil and whether it is something Jesus parted, or is it still something we bump into in getting to the Ark of the Covenant and the inner sanctum - the Holy of Holies.


P.S.


God's wrath is against evil and those who willingly pursue it. An in-depth study of Levitical Law may reveal that the sacrifices practiced were meant to cleanse the space where prayers were offered, not cleanse the man himself.

This is very agreeable. I feel that when reading the word "sin" in the Bible one is behooved to quit finding this an action or verb. It is the result of being unloving or unkind, in sanity - guilt. When one feels guilt, that is sin because one feels that they are separated from God.


When Abraham was chosen to be the Father of God's set-apart nation of people, He was tested to ensure that he realized what was necessary to redeem the world. The Isaac test was a message to Abraham, making it clear that the only way to redeem the debt of man was to offer something of such great value that settlement cannot be rightfully denied.

Thank you BLB;

It might have been abrupt to call God insecure, even though I still feel that way. That interpretation is an illusion that Abraham's understanding would have anything to do with the redemption of mankind. At least according to Pragmatism.

This interpretation comes from Jews and Christians alike distorting into euphemism that Abraham and Sarah were half-siblings and engaged in common incest. If you bring it up, you will see. I have plenty of commentary that they were actually half siblings and that there is no proper translation otherwise but I do not attach the research because the truth is upsetting to those upholding the illusions.


The term (Only Begotten Son) literally means “one of a kind” or “unique” with no connotation of time or origin.

This develops a contradiction in the Christian mind/discussion. I do this regularly. I go to Bible studies and even Christianity Explored. I gather all the literature and do the homework. I read. I write. I teach and I learn. The contradiction is if you are In Jesus so to speak, how can you not be the Only Begotten Son?

A member of the Body of Jesus is Jesus.

My Question for Christianity Explored (this sixth time) is, "If God is not within you, where did you put Him?"

BLBereans
11-01-15, 04:36 PM
P.S.



This is very agreeable. I feel that when reading the word "sin" in the Bible one is behooved to quit finding this an action or verb. It is the result of being unloving or unkind, in sanity - guilt. When one feels guilt, that is sin because one feels that they are separated from God.



Thank you BLB;

It might have been abrupt to call God insecure, even though I still feel that way. That interpretation is an illusion that Abraham's understanding would have anything to do with the redemption of mankind. At least according to Pragmatism.

This interpretation comes from Jews and Christians alike distorting into euphemism that Abraham and Sarah were half-siblings and engaged in common incest. If you bring it up, you will see. I have plenty of commentary that they were actually half siblings and that there is no proper translation otherwise but I do not attach the research because the truth is upsetting to those upholding the illusions.



This develops a contradiction in the Christian mind/discussion. I do this regularly. I go to Bible studies and even Christianity Explored. I gather all the literature and do the homework. I read. I write. I teach and I learn. The contradiction is if you are In Jesus so to speak, how can you not be the Only Begotten Son?

A member of the Body of Jesus is Jesus.

My Question for Christianity Explored (this sixth time) is, "If God is not within you, where did you put Him?"

That interpretation is an illusion that there exists no distinction between the Creator and the created. Also, it presumes to limit God as if He is unable to overcome any obstacle of man's state in order to have His Will fulfilled. Whether they were half-siblings or not is not the issue; the issue is whether or not one believes God has Providence over His creation regardless of our inadequacy or shortcomings.

Sin is a verb and a noun - both are forgiven if one's trust is in The Creator and His Plan of salvation through redemption in Jesus The Christ.

xparte
11-01-15, 05:10 PM
to be able to speak truthfully in simple terms and in a short enough time to keep the listener's attention.Paying close attention or pay no attention heated seats no option they come standard on this bus as we get use to listening its never a question of whats driving that bus or who owns it rather how many times it has to be sold to find its true owner.

xparte
11-01-15, 07:44 PM
Christ was talking for God and the conversation got distorted only one thief got the message all Christ,s have the same message if one adds or subtracts a message is that just a thief's doing his [JOB] supersaturation just following orders and we know that never works on a final judgement Gods truth is nature distorted by who else but his creation can compliment the message or complicate it both at the same time the [thief ] betray one thief or meet nature in the middle no empty crosses just one message is to great for a tomb. a message in LATIN means papal/bill Christ is a True Bill a message thats registered never comes guilt/or debt free.when a faith gets registered as Moses being first franchise in corner stone all the golden cow usury conversion worship wailing wall street bull market changers gentile store fronts babal offshore internation/al booths never lost out too Vatican Rome when God whent global all battles and conquest when Rome marched the front office mob ate kosher or Italian kabob's homos hag us Bar codes and temple tax city of london all people told eat fish or kosher Hebrew text is just to close to the garden who confounded the language and the law a page in Hebrew is one a word in latin is a page Job lost it all to who his completion or his competitive nature the State has no Competition in biology and sociology, is a contest between two or more organisms animals, individuals, groups, etc., for territory, a niche, for a location of resources, for resources and goods, for mates, for prestige, for recognition, for awards, for group or social status, or for leadership. whats a Competition but loss . forget a pin# in line ask the line how its getting over the loss.

xparte
11-01-15, 10:22 PM
What story do you want to tell? Who do you want to tell it to? What is your ideal outcome?

The Bible has a creative core of ideas behind it that speaks out to a reader on every single page. How many content marketing campaigns have this creative forethought behind them? At the heart who,s book is Moses heart with God and not the 10 Commandments. These 10 rules are the key set of laws that govern all hearts. It is a framework from which all of the Bible and other franchised teachings and writings stem from. This is what all content strategies need. You need to have your own set of brand rules, establishing tone of voice, target audience and story. No need to write them down how do you forget the heart of God u dont. u just forget to watch yourself written in stone is u are dead Moses took a tombstone down the mountain as we can only bury you not the truth heart and soul is not what the market can bear its the market itself.how much content marketers can learn from the Bible. expect investment with no gain have no head for business just a heart then its charity with plenty to gain.A virgin birth Joe how ordinary is Joe,s and Mary,s charity thats a big investment with no market so backdate incest add the father of nations and fetching his sister and incest out of Babylon is necessary for joe and mary and God fathering Christ joe accepts this as most hebrews have no reason to covet mary or any mans wife when they got a dozen at home herod is killing first borns why 3 wise kings are getting out of the markets following the heart as this message is not in stone guidanceIf and a night sky. Who is creating a illusion for Herod his ego is mary and joes illusion is limited to who,s survival what obstacle exists with free will Abe and sara are bloodlines of same father what is sara offering abe slave girl or peasant stock for in the first place this obstacle is more about more than one wife under the same husband abe guilt is loving more than his wife adultery is carnal incest is a defective practise a seed not devised by God.a jewish mom cant have a irish son witout a Man but nations dont seed nations the Biblical whore corruption seeds from all nations have no visible father.

allodial
11-01-15, 11:11 PM
The contradiction is if you are In Jesus so to speak, how can you not be the Only Begotten Son? A member of the Body of Jesus is Jesus. My Question for Christianity Explored (this sixth time) is, "If God is not within you, where did you put Him?"

"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God the Almighty, and the Lamb, are the temple thereof." Revelations 21:22. The Lamb seems to be the Christ's lawful assembly which is said to be part of the Household of God. The Papal claim of being the Vicar of Christ might be that which obscures the significance of being of the Christ's lawful assembly. It is rather clear that Jesus remains alive having ascended, the saints remain ambassadors/agents on the planet. Perhaps it possible for a king to be in Christ and his subjects to be without?

This might give insight:
The Church: the Household of God (http://www.truthmagazine.com/archives/volume32/GOT032043.html)

David Merrill
11-01-15, 11:37 PM
That interpretation is an illusion that there exists no distinction between the Creator and the created. Also, it presumes to limit God as if He is unable to overcome any obstacle of man's state in order to have His Will fulfilled. Whether they were half-siblings or not is not the issue; the issue is whether or not one believes God has Providence over His creation regardless of our inadequacy or shortcomings.

Sin is a verb and a noun - both are forgiven if one's trust is in The Creator and His Plan of salvation through redemption in Jesus The Christ.


I am saying that sin is an emotion - guilt.



to be able to speak truthfully in simple terms and in a short enough time to keep the listener's attention.Paying close attention or pay no attention heated seats no option they come standard on this bus as we get use to listening its never a question of whats driving that bus or who owns it rather how many times it has to be sold to find its true owner.

This is about ownership, from my perspective.

e=mc2 describes the energy it takes to make one atom. We align our will to God.\





What story do you want to tell? Who do you want to tell it to? What is your ideal outcome?

The Bible has a creative core of ideas behind it that speaks out to a reader on every single page. How many content marketing campaigns have this creative forethought behind them? At the heart who,s book is Moses heart with God and not the 10 Commandments. These 10 rules are the key set of laws that govern all hearts. It is a framework from which all of the Bible and other franchised teachings and writings stem from. This is what all content strategies need. You need to have your own set of brand rules, establishing tone of voice, target audience and story. No need to write them down how do you forget the heart of God u dont. u just forget to watch yourself written in stone is u are dead Moses took a tombstone down the mountain as we can only bury you not the truth heart and soul is not what the market can bear its the market itself.how much content marketers can learn from the Bible. expect investment with no gain have no head for business just a heart then its charity with plenty to gain.A virgin birth Joe how ordinary is Joe,s and Mary,s charity thats a big investment with no market so backdate incest add the father of nations and fetching his sister and incest out of Babylon is necessary for joe and mary and God fathering Christ joe accepts this as most hebrews have no reason to covet mary or any mans wife when they got a dozen at home herod is killing first borns why 3 wise kings are getting out of the markets following the heart as this message is not in stone guidanceIf and a night sky. Who is creating a illusion for Herod his ego is mary and joes illusion is limited to who,s survival what obstacle exists with free will Abe and sara are bloodlines of same father what is sara offering abe slave girl or peasant stock for in the first place this obstacle is more about more than one wife under the same husband abe guilt is loving more than his wife adultery is carnal incest is a defective practise a seed not devised by God.a jewish mom cant have a irish son witout a Man but nations dont seed nations the Biblical whore corruption seeds from all nations have no visible father.

Laws of Moses. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImcl9ScFdvdHJjRkU/view?usp=sharing)

English translation. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImVmJQeTR6Vmcxc0U/view?usp=sharing)

BLBereans
11-02-15, 01:11 AM
I am saying that sin is an emotion - guilt.

I am having trouble finding any source for defining the word sin as only emotive guilt, perhaps you could help with that.

Incidentally, after Jesus wrote on the ground the second time, the discourse was as follows...

But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

John 8: 11 (http://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/8-11.htm)

Strong's 264 hamartanó: to miss the mark, do wrong, sin (http://biblehub.com/greek/264.htm)

A man murders an innocent woman. Afterwards, the man emotes the guilt of having committed the act. Which is the sin in your view, the murder (act) or the guilt (emotion) afterward?

xparte
11-02-15, 02:13 AM
Paying for a sin is a mortal contraption if every one that commits murder payed with emotion we never be late for work u just kill the boss adultery is without emotion only if your caught. lets not invent sin lets invent emotions that express guilt honest guilt honest emotions needs sin as a act only the woman never became emotional because no rocks were thrown she cant believe how many sinners were in that crowd showing no emotion why guilt needs prove and emotion needs ownership a sin is a degree guilt witness a sin Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”dont lye to yourself as we are all surrounded with sin and guilt can measure punishment only against one an another stoning atoning to 10 commandments is only the law that separates punishment its remorse can be guilt. emotions cant be separated from God guilt u get over .u know you deserve what u get stick to your guns dye with a bullet or sin a dirty song is just that without emotion. try writing down emotions in a dirty song?thoughts are sin not emotion Christ stop us thinking like who is left who can throw stones.Emotional rescues God is or as my witness Moses dragging 10 stories down to a emotionally charge crowd they never put a phone # on a gravestone or list all your sins as next of kin The book is for a rowdy people [us] to hell with choice as a emotion sin needs no choice.

David Merrill
11-02-15, 02:58 AM
The act is murder. The emotion is guilt. The guilt is what causes a sense of separation from God. Separation from God is an emotion. That is sin. If you accept that you are born into sin, then you live with guilt.

xparte
11-02-15, 03:29 AM
Godless acts i get my emotions from God we share the guilt not the sin ownership is the deal breaker I agree with Separation one is the act and its inheritance.

Michael Joseph
11-02-15, 03:34 AM
The act is murder. The emotion is guilt. The guilt is what causes a sense of separation from God. Separation from God is an emotion. That is sin. If you accept that you are born into sin, then you live with guilt.

Man is the Mind - Woman is the Emotion.

Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Pro 4:8 Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.

Be thou equally yoked - and don't plow the field with another man's heifer. Consider that last one for a minute or two before proceeding. Isn't this religion in its current practice. Come to the pew, sit down and let "us" tell you what to think. Is this not plowing in the field [world] with another man's heifer?

Pro 4:13 Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.

Take every thought captive and kill those that do not serve - for Armageddon happens in the Mind. Notice there was no man to be found with the woman caught in Adultery? Nevertheless many externalize the story and look for a physical reality - and it is to that end that they create their own prisons. Yet Abraham was considered worthy for he would command all in his house. Become the warrior priest - the true Joshua. For Christ must be formed in you!

The Valley of the Kings - is synonymous with the valley of Megiddo. The place of decision or the place called Jezreel - for I will sow and I will reap.

As long as the house remains divided in sin, then the man/woman remains in duality. But Jesus said let them be one as we are one. Nevertheless emotions will cause one to look back - only to be "preserved" in salt for the time when one comes back down the mountain. For we are told there comes a time when we are instructed to flee to the "mountains".

But what if I live in the valley? Perhaps, just perhaps, it is the metaphysical "mountain" - for yea though I walk thru the "VALLEY" of the shadow of death.....emotions unchecked can rule the house - for the woman is never to rule the man - the Mind should rule Emotion.

Abraham commanded his servants and his asses to remain in the valley....for carnality and emotion cannot ascend into the Mountain. Nevertheless in true marriage the two become one [Mind and Emotion are united]. Thus will can be birthed in Love.

Shalom,
MJ

xparte
11-02-15, 03:47 AM
Being mind full MJ the church is the mistress of guilt or the other woman.

Michael Joseph
11-02-15, 04:31 AM
Being mind full MJ the church is the mistress of guilt or the other woman.

Gospel of Thomas verse 48 and 106

David Merrill
11-02-15, 05:21 AM
I call the Gospel of Thomas - Slogans of Jesus (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImcVlwbXRCQmJReVU/view?usp=sharing).

Teaching results. (http://youtu.be/1JMELyhuvws)

george
11-02-15, 05:32 AM
interesting video, mentions Helen of Judea as Jesus's mother:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKopQB7nj8

these guys seem as close to truth as anybody else if not moreso IMO

David, you seem to be familiar with google stuff.. can you tell me if these two google books are freely available to read in english? they seem to be very good reading that a GLP member linked to.

https://books.google.de/books?id=Ooo8ExcQOqMC&pg=PA185&lpg=PA185&dq=Acquiring%20Kingship&source=bl&ots=J9QOwbToI0&sig=W-bUkKozsbe3lXHXTJVBIlDU1Ow&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBmoVChMInpzZ-aPwyAIVZpdyCh3DnAC5#v=onepage&q=Acquiring%20Kingship&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=Y4IZAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=To%20be%20FREE,%20NOBLE,%20HONORABLE,%20ACCOUNT ABLE&source=bl&ots=7iS7Zhkfpe&sig=wh2TWWZyJUdpY-KeuKgpHjfMevk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBGoVChMItf-qjanwyAIVB5RyCh3zXAtH#v=onepage&q=To%20be%20FREE%2C%20NOBLE%2C%20HONORABLE%2C%20AC COUNTABLE&f=false

I cant find them elsewhere, anyone?

thanks

allodial
11-02-15, 05:38 AM
george, this is a book I meant to link to earlier: The Ancient Egyptian Language: An Historical Study (http://www.amazon.com/The-Ancient-Egyptian-Language-Historical/dp/1107664675).


interesting video, mentions Helen of Judea as Jesus's mother:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKopQB7nj8

these guys seem as close to truth as anybody else if not moreso IMO

David, you seem to be familiar with google stuff.. can you tell me if these two google books are freely available to read in english? they seem to be very good reading that a GLP member linked to.

https://books.google.de/books?id=Ooo8ExcQOqMC&pg=PA185&lpg=PA185&dq=Acquiring%20Kingship&source=bl&ots=J9QOwbToI0&sig=W-bUkKozsbe3lXHXTJVBIlDU1Ow&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBmoVChMInpzZ-aPwyAIVZpdyCh3DnAC5#v=onepage&q=Acquiring%20Kingship&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=Y4IZAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=To%20be%20FREE,%20NOBLE,%20HONORABLE,%20ACCOUNT ABLE&source=bl&ots=7iS7Zhkfpe&sig=wh2TWWZyJUdpY-KeuKgpHjfMevk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBGoVChMItf-qjanwyAIVB5RyCh3zXAtH#v=onepage&q=To%20be%20FREE%2C%20NOBLE%2C%20HONORABLE%2C%20AC COUNTABLE&f=false

I cant find them elsewhere, anyone?

thanks

"Empire Strikes Again" all of the alleged 'debunking of Jesus' was foretold around 2,000 years ago. Those who reject the grace of New Adam and their adherence to the fallen Edom-ic/Adam-ic is allowed to come to finalization. Many 'debunkers' might be debunking ideas born out of syncretism rather than debunking the truth such as attempts to superimpose Zeus onto Y'shua/Jesus. Perhaps they are so blind in their interest in secular power and money that they cannot see that pure doctrines aren't about establishing Jesus setting out to establish secular kingdoms. However, there is much significance in preemptive authority in the spiritual and how such authority can affect the physical.

Those with an innate hatred of Jesus and of even life itself aren't likely going to write books with much any truth. There is a book titled Forged (http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-God--Why-Bibles-Authors/dp/0062012622/), it has the appearance of being insightful but like many books similar to that, so much propaganda and drivel posing as academics.

David Merrill
11-02-15, 10:12 AM
Being mind full MJ the church is the mistress of guilt or the other woman.

It is easy to construe two churches - the 501(c)(3) "church" and the 508(c)(1)(A) Mandatory Exception, outside the IRS Code.



interesting video, mentions Helen of Judea as Jesus's mother:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKopQB7nj8

these guys seem as close to truth as anybody else if not moreso IMO

David, you seem to be familiar with google stuff.. can you tell me if these two google books are freely available to read in english? they seem to be very good reading that a GLP member linked to.

https://books.google.de/books?id=Ooo8ExcQOqMC&pg=PA185&lpg=PA185&dq=Acquiring%20Kingship&source=bl&ots=J9QOwbToI0&sig=W-bUkKozsbe3lXHXTJVBIlDU1Ow&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBmoVChMInpzZ-aPwyAIVZpdyCh3DnAC5#v=onepage&q=Acquiring%20Kingship&f=false

https://books.google.de/books?id=Y4IZAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=To%20be%20FREE,%20NOBLE,%20HONORABLE,%20ACCOUNT ABLE&source=bl&ots=7iS7Zhkfpe&sig=wh2TWWZyJUdpY-KeuKgpHjfMevk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwBGoVChMItf-qjanwyAIVB5RyCh3zXAtH#v=onepage&q=To%20be%20FREE%2C%20NOBLE%2C%20HONORABLE%2C%20AC COUNTABLE&f=false

I cant find them elsewhere, anyone?

thanks


It seems agreeable with the Jesus Family Tomb. That indicates the only "Mary" being Jesus' wife, who is unrelated by blood to Jesus. The word search you linked is interesting - are those who legislate above the law?

I think not. It would seem that during Rectification of Judiciary - where the oaths of office are faulty intentionally; breach of trust that I might seem above the law as Trustee for the Resulting Trust. However I am casting that illusion I am above the law by being bound to it while rectifying the judiciary; bringing the imposter/actors back into Rules of Court.

As my Legend becomes Fable Hallucination, Myth and Parable are likewise Illusion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHayfO0OClU).

allodial
11-02-15, 11:31 AM
James Cameron, 33rd Freemason. Not sure if I can in good faith and confidence presume him to be anything other than extremely biased (http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/living/jesus-tomb-talpiot-evidence/) when it comes to religion. Nothing against Freemasons, just I don't expect him to be specifically un-biased especially these days.

3167

Isn't this the kind of thing Albert Pike and company said they would do as far as undermining established law and government so they could establish what they want to establish? If the Protocols were a forgery I wonder who might have done such a thing....

James Cameron, a movie director, a special effects master, a proven specialist at making billions to accept as real that which is purely make-believe. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief) What comes to mind is that of the most fastidious, sinister and disgusting liars I ever, ever met was a film editor. He had a way of taking bits and pieces from different people and events to 'prove his lies' in order to cover his own misdeeds and for slandering others. It took me a bit to crack the case, but I realized that is exactly what he was doing: convincing people of his lies by linking unrelated things together in a mish-mosh of trickery. For example, one of the many twisted things he was into: he was sleeping around with a man's wife. So what did he do, he 'scripted a fallacy'. She was afraid of being found out. He was terrified. So he convinced her to work with him to make the husband think the someone she would be sleeping with would be the one who actually knew what was going on and someone who the husband was quite afraid to cross but was good friends with. Basically to divert attention away from him. This upset me because her husband is quite a decent fellow--that they would add insult to injury through more trickery.

What did he do? Of course he spent a over a year dropping lies and linking together these fallacies with 'proof' which were unrelated. When they were out to blame came around a restaurant, instead of just a friendly hug, the editor-liar had her kiss him on the mouth. It happened multiple times on separate spaced out occasions (the interesting key is that it never happened with the Film Editor wasn't around). Of course, when you're hugging someone its not like you expect them to kiss you on the mouth and you're not in much of a position to stave it off--even if its on the corner. Eventually, I realized she only did this when the liar-editor was present: it served as a cover for the both of them. But after a bit of time, I put everything together and it clicked--not only is the guy a psychopath, he was using his film editing skills in 'reality' to create false appearances. He even would record people talking and then create remixes to leave impressions that were far from reality--his main objective was to slander those who had dirt on him or those who he envied or those men who weren't homosexual that he wished were or to simply create false appearances. He would even create lies to win the trust and faith of others who felt he had helped them. But the thing is, he dupes everyone and anyone he can--it is a game to him.

3169


The idea of the resurrection emerged very early in Christianity -- almost immediately after Jesus' death. This would, in theory, explain the Jonah image (if it were such) on the tomb next door.

But this presents a logical dilemma: We would have a tomb containing Jesus' ossuary -- his bones -- coexisting, temporally and physically, with the belief that his bones shouldn't be in there. And we would have to believe that a year after Jesus died and was supposedly resurrected, his followers went and reburied his decomposed corpse in an ossuary.

What's more, all of the other people from Jesus' family, all those other names on the ossuaries in the Talpiot Tomb, would have been buried there after Jesus, presumably years later.

In other words, early Christians, believing that Jesus was the resurrected son of God, were entering his burial chamber to deposit the bones of his relatives, and no one ever mentioned the place, turned it into a pilgrimage site or marked it for other Jesus followers.

Considering how dangerous the existence of Jesus' burial site -- and bones -- would be for traditional Christian belief, even very early on, we might be surprised that no one, in the years that they must have been returning to the tomb to bury everyone else, didn't think to destroy the best evidence that their central claim was a lie.

The media attention around this story is easy enough to explain: Jesus is hot right now, and this would be a blockbuster if it were true. Unfortunately, the evidence is faulty, and the story doesn't make sense. Source: CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/living/jesus-tomb-talpiot-evidence/).

In ~2,000 years, no one thought to write about this tomb until now? Hmmmmm. Perhaps the Dragon is hungry and Cameron and Jacobovichi are steering as many as they can into its mouth?


I'm not even a Christian, but I did live in the neighborhood where this cave was found, and I've spent most of the last ten years spelunking in far more important caves, from Jerusalem to Baghdad, looking at the relationship between the Bible and archaeology. Here's why they're wrong.

1. Caves like the ones where the ossuaries were discovered are commonplace in the area and were very familiar features of this neighborhood in the 1st century B.C.E. and C.E. The archaeologist who traveled with me for WALKING THE BIBLE and WHERE GOD WAS BORN, Avner Goren, made the fascinating point to me today that bodies used to be buried in groups but with the introduction of individualism from Greece, they started burying people in single boxes and labeling them. Basically, the bodies would be buried for a year, the family would come back and collect the bones and put them in an ossuary (a stone box). Then they would take the box out once a year and have a memorial service, as Jews still do today with candle lighting.

2. A family from Nazareth would not be buried in Jerusalem. Jewish custom holds that a body should be buried within 24 hours. I recently heard of a family that hired a private plane to get a body from Cleveland to Jerusalem in time. It would have been impossible to get a body from Nazareth, in the Galilee, to Jerusalem in this time period. Also, there's no way for a family to tend a grave this far away. So the idea of a multi-generational family tomb for Jesus in Jerusalem makes no sense. Even the archaeologist who discovered the cave originally, Amos Kloner, has dismissed the show as "nonsense."

3. The names on the ossuaries are very common. As Avner pointed out, 21 percent of names of women are Mary; Joseph and Jesus (Joshua) are among the top four male names. The presence of these names in a tomb would not have been rare. The name Jesus has been found in dozens of tombs over the years. Further, we have no evidence that this is a family tomb; it could have been a communal tomb, or a neighborhood tomb."There is no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb," Kloner said. "They were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the 1st century CE."

4. The DNA evidence that Jesus was not connected to the Mary buried in the tomb does not prove anything, other than they are not related matrilnearly. For all we know, they could have been related patrilinearly. Or, they could never have met. There is no evidence the female body belonged to someone who was "married" to anyone else in the tomb. There is no evidence she was the mother of anyone else in the tomb. And we can be sure they checked that! So the claim that Jesus fathered a son with the "Mary" in the tomb is bogus. Source: The Jesus Hoax (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-feiler/the-jesus-hoax_b_42195.html)

As pertains to Zechariah, they want the right hand, so perhaps the left hand is what they will get.

3168

So begs the question is why would someone defend Jesus when his lack of existence would possibly open them up to freedom to do whatever they want: kill, steal, lie, etc. They could become a Muslim and have 4 wives EVEN IN THE USA (although polygyny isn't necessarily against the Bible)! Its because when you know the truth, you know better. You know what is more precious and more valuable than all of the money, guns, armies and land in the whole world.

David Merrill
11-02-15, 02:51 PM
george, this is a book I meant to link to earlier: The Ancient Egyptian Language: An Historical Study (http://www.amazon.com/The-Ancient-Egyptian-Language-Historical/dp/1107664675).



"Empire Strikes Again" all of the alleged 'debunking of Jesus' was foretold around 2,000 years ago. Those who reject the grace of New Adam and their adherence to the fallen Edom-ic/Adam-ic is allowed to come to finalization. Many 'debunkers' might be debunking ideas born out of syncretism rather than debunking the truth such as attempts to superimpose Zeus onto Y'shua/Jesus. Perhaps they are so blind in their interest in secular power and money that they cannot see that pure doctrines aren't about establishing Jesus setting out to establish secular kingdoms. However, there is much significance in preemptive authority in the spiritual and how such authority can affect the physical.

Those with an innate hatred of Jesus and of even life itself aren't likely going to write books with much any truth. There is a book titled Forged (http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-God--Why-Bibles-Authors/dp/0062012622/), it has the appearance of being insightful but like many books similar to that, so much propaganda and drivel posing as academics.


This is quite agreeable. I enjoy the men holding watermelons.

I suggest that you would watch the documentary rather than read the debunking reviews. It seems to me that most people who are skeptical of the evidence brought forth have not watched the video. In debunking the debunkers I explored into the political and employment history of 1980 Israel and found the names of the archivers match up, for example. CAMERON's complete lack of defending the movie has always impressed me too.

There are several keys in the Scriptures that reveal that Jesus survived the Cross, was the political albeit crowned by the exiled King Archelaus HEROD. His first act was to rectify the financial hoarding of the drachma and shekel coins, the moneychanger franchise in the courtyard and that was a real enemy-maker:



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImYzlkNjc2MjItNjdhYy00YjBhLWI1ZDItMDJmM 2JkYmQ4Mzc0/view?usp=sharing


More revealing though is how Paul claims that he spent three years conversing with Jesus in Damascus. This reconciles with Peter and his scribe Mark collaborating and the Road to Damascus conversion too.

allodial
11-02-15, 07:45 PM
That he survived the cross through subsequent death, resurrection and ascension into heaven is the Bible story. The victory over death is key as was afforded by faith in the remedy provided in the wilderness ala the brazen serpent--victory over death. The notion of ascension is also alluded to per Elijah (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Kings+2&version=KJV) and Enoch (who were taken up rather than having ascended of their own) thusly is not an invention of the NT.

The impression I get is that heretical Gnostics have set out to force their ideas of the material world being profane, thusly they could not accept that God or any divine being would have much to do with it. So they rendered the crucifixion event in a way that suited their philosophies: thusly him not dying and escaping the cross.


5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.

19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.

25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

To knowledge, some relate the foregoing to Archelaus. However, it parallels with what is explained at Ephesians 1 and 2 and what is said about the kingdom coming not with observation (https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/luk/17/20/s_990020). That is, the reason for the parable is given in the text: because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

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The link to the currency being set right is quite interesting as to perspective. Wisdom might have just or equitable weights and balances put in place even in the secular. However, I always got the impression that the talents were referring to spiritual gifts (wisdom, etc.) and to faith partly because the attitude toward the one servant ties into: "faith without works is dead".

Related:

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, Luke 9:12 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-19-12.html)
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, Luke 9:13 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-19-13.html)
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, Luke 9:14 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-19-14.html)
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, Luke 9:15 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-19-15.html)
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, Luke 9:16 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-19-16.html)
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, Luke 9:17 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-19-17.html)
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible, Luke 9:18 (http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-19-18.html)

David Merrill
11-02-15, 09:21 PM
That the same story of the Bible is true in literal fact is beautiful!

I kid you not!

When you see how this un-convolution and freedom from the "supernatural" brings forth such a resounding and meaningful spiritual heritage, agreeable and free to all, you will understand the beauty of shedding the conditioning and programming that kept you from seeing it all along.

allodial
11-02-15, 09:38 PM
Indeed, however, the supernatural is very much a part of the kingdom. It is the purity, power and holiness of spiritual kingdom inheritance which allows us to set things in right and maintain the right order in the physical sense--from without, the kingdom is discernible indirectly one might say. Like Father like Son.

I am convinced that the Gospel was meant to be practical and pragmatic, which is why it has been obscured by those whose Dark Party gets spoiled by it. For religious congregations to meet once a week to think and talk about shiny, sparkly things and go back "into the world" and do nothing but worldly things--seems sketchy to me. That the Gospel was meant to be applied seems to be the lesson behind the parable of the talents. Of course, those in opposition don't want any application of the Gospel, they want it "up in the air" and "wraithy"--effectively meaningless which is why they promote counterfeit/shadow "churches" designed to keep people getting a grip on the significance of exercising spiritual authority. It was specifically revealed to me that 'fake churches' were established in order to guide and direct the teaching to prevent the 'captive' from attaining the spiritual authority and those who had --to prevent them from exercising it.

I suspect that you are getting the same or similar concept as to practicality: that sound doctrines were meant to be applied. They are practical and pragmatic supernaturally and otherwise. I believe Jesus himself would agree.

It might surprise many, but Jesus isn't the only one who was raised to sit in the heavenlies and upon who a kingdom is conferred. Ephesians 2 (and Luke 24:49 (http://biblehub.com/luke/24-49.htm)) clarifies this.

Michael Joseph
11-02-15, 09:58 PM
That the same story of the Bible is true in literal fact is beautiful!

I kid you not!

When you see how this un-convolution and freedom from the "supernatural" brings forth such a resounding and meaningful spiritual heritage, agreeable and free to all, you will understand the beauty of shedding the conditioning and programming that kept you from seeing it all along.


From Gospel of Thomas:

11) Jesus said, This heaven will pass away, (False Christianity) and the one above it will pass away (False Judaism). The dead (So-called Christians and Jews) are not alive, and the living (The Elect) will not die (Since it is impossible to fool them with false teachings). In the days when you consumed what is dead (JudeoChristian teachings), you made it what is alive (Recognized it and lived). When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day (Early in the Church Age) when you were one (Knew the heavenly and earthly interpretations,) you became two (Knew only the earthly). But when you become two (Divided), what will you do (In order to recover the lost unity within)?

13) Jesus said to his disciples, Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like. Simon Peter (The Church) said to him, you are like a righteous angel (Miracle worker, luminous being). Matthew (Who is also known as Levi; the Jews) said to him, you are like a wise philosopher (As in how they always call him rabbi). Thomas (The Elect) said to him, master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like. Jesus said, I am not your master. Because you have imbibed (From his mouth--verse 108), you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring (of God’s Word) which I have measured out (In precise terminology, which is why Thomas cannot speak it). And he took him and withdrew (From the Jews and Christians) and told him three things (That there would be three Testaments). When (The Gospel of) Thomas (Was later) returned (At the end of the age) to his companions (The Jews and Christians), they asked him, what did Jesus say to you? (Explain these secrets to us) Thomas said to them, if I tell you one of the things which he told me, (About how there would be a third Testament) you will pick up stones (The Old and New Testaments) and throw them at (Use them against) me; a fire (A Trial and a Judgment) will come out of the stones (Testaments) and burn you (Jews and Christians) up.

(explanation added by others)

Said explanation has the basis of Philemon - for indeed the Elect children shall come with great benefit upon their lips but many will not be able to hear for they are too vested in earthly meanings.

108) Jesus said, He who will drink (The Word) from my mouth (His words, rather than from a cup; or Canon) will become like me. (We shall see him as he is, know the truth and be set free from religion, which needs a cup, or Canon) I myself shall become he, (John 7:37-39, etcetera) and the things that are hidden (The keys, the understanding of this and other Scriptures) will become revealed to him.

allodial
11-02-15, 10:37 PM
Michael Joseph: Are you suggesting that to assert the validity and reality of the supernatural to reflect vestment in 'earthly meanings'? Or are you suggesting the kingdom to be wholly supernatural/spiritual but capable of producing good side effects in the physical?

For one, the overemphasis on sex in many so-called "Christian congregations" gives me insight they are totally missing or ignoring the spiritual meanings of fidelity to the truth. The so-called pastors are being used as tools to mislead--a higher level occultist referred to one as as one of his wolves--imagine a spiritual abortion clinic masquerading as a place for meeting of saints. Was it the Roman Catholic system that asserted a physical rendering of the kingdom by promoting the taking of Jerusalem between 1066 and 1099 which was about 1,000 years after the destruction of the temple? Wasn't that the beginning of a large series of conflicts between Catholics and Muslims? The Crusades?


My kingdom is not of this world. --John 18:36

3171

xparte
11-03-15, 12:06 AM
Christ,s Message has not been tried and found wanting; just good news [Gospel]is found difficult and not tried. When Judaism is an ancient monotheistic religion Tanakh or Hebrew Bible is a book about faith under Jewish sacred books, including those which were not admitted into the Hebrew canon. It was only after the Jews had defined their canon that the Church thought of closing its own Old Testament canon. But we are lacking information on the procedure adopted and the reasons given for the inclusion of this or that book in the canon. It is possible, nevertheless, to trace in a general way the evolution of the canon in the Church, both in the East and in the West.In the East from Origen's time (c. 185-253) there was an attempt to conform Christian usage to the Hebrew canon of 24-22 books using various combinations and stratagems. Origen himself knew of the existence of numerous textual differences, which were often considerable, between the Hebrew and the Greek Bible. To this was added the problem of different listings of books. The attempt to conform to the Hebrew text of the Hebrew canon did not prevent Christian authors in the East from utilising in their writings books that were never admitted into the Hebrew canon, or from following the Septuagint text. The notion that the Hebrew canon should be preferred by Christians does not seem to have produced in the Eastern Church either a profound or long-lasting impression.{To the Jewish Scriptures which it received as the authentic Word of God,] How the Christian Church added other Scriptures expressing its faith in Jesus, the Christ. It follows then that the Christian Bible is not composed of one “Testament”, but two “Testaments”, the Old and the New, which have complex, dialectical relationships between them. The word of God replaced with a Christian Church for expressing its faith in Jesus, the Christ Well the Gospel is good news for who A church then a pope composed for battle feeding folks to lions and human sacrifice is the same thing God put Abe to the test The church has put us all to a test each other not God. when Christ said they do not know what they do. but that church does if each gospel exposes Christ what has the church exposed.

george
11-03-15, 12:49 AM
That the same story of the Bible is true in literal fact is beautiful!

I kid you not!

When you see how this un-convolution and freedom from the "supernatural" brings forth such a resounding and meaningful spiritual heritage, agreeable and free to all, you will understand the beauty of shedding the conditioning and programming that kept you from seeing it all along.

care to expand on that David? Im right in the thick of it, it seems but afraid to test the "illusion". Im actually going though some tough stuff right now, its kinda normal for the last so long but tougher than usual lately.

my heart has been telling me DO IT, DO IT! for quite a while now but my mind says NO F'KN WAY MAN! at some point I will probably just go with it hoping for the best but that is way harder for me than most I think.



The impression I get is that heretical Gnostics have set out to force their ideas of the material world being profane, thusly they could not accept that God or any divine being would have much to do with it. So they rendered the crucifixion event in a way that suited their philosophies: thusly him not dying and escaping the cross.


seems to me that all gnostics are not christian gnostics, if that is the case would you still consider them heretical? some the ancient philosophers were gnostic, right? or modern Phds and such, do diagnosis, prognoses, etc. doesnt that make them gnostic?

I think we are all gnostic in a way. of reason and logic anyway.

thanks for the linkage to that book, and the other one in PM a while back too, I tried to send thanks reply back in PM but your inbox was full (again LOL) this forum has a much smaller storage allowance than most for PMs. I limit myself to what is freely available though for now.

anyway, the recent thread on GLP Im finding very interesting is here http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2987182/pg1

I no longer actively post there though because I seem to get banned every time I do. I think my posts are always too close to the truth and probably TMI for TPTB there. kinda surprised this guys topic has lasted this long LOL but he has paid for a membership there which I have not and will not ever.

BLBereans
11-03-15, 12:52 AM
The act is murder. The emotion is guilt. The guilt is what causes a sense of separation from God. Separation from God is an emotion. That is sin. If you accept that you are born into sin, then you live with guilt.

You have an interesting way of saying murder is not sin.

allodial
11-03-15, 01:16 AM
care to expand on that David? Im right in the thick of it, it seems but afraid to test the "illusion". Im actually going though some tough stuff right now, its kinda normal for the last so long but tougher than usual lately.

my heart has been telling me DO IT, DO IT! for quite a while now but my mind says NO F'KN WAY MAN! at some point I will probably just go with it hoping for the best but that is way harder for me than most I think.



seems to me that all gnostics are not christian gnostics, if that is the case would you still consider them heretical? some the ancient philosophers were gnostic, right? or modern Phds and such, do diagnosis, prognoses, etc. doesnt that make them gnostic?

I think we are all gnostic in a way. of reason and logic anyway.

thanks for the linkage to that book, and the other one in PM a while back too, I tried to send thanks reply back in PM but your inbox was full (again LOL) this forum has a much smaller storage allowance than most for PMs. I limit myself to what is freely available though for now.

anyway, the recent thread on GLP Im finding very interesting is here http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2987182/pg1

I no longer actively post there though because I seem to get banned every time I do. I think my posts are always too close to the truth and probably TMI for TPTB there. kinda surprised this guys topic has lasted this long LOL but he has paid for a membership there which I have not and will not ever.

Heretical Gnostics were around long before 0AD. The phrase 'heritical Gnostic' does not render all Gnostics heretical. Knowing is part of life. But there were those who believed salvation came through 'knowing' and that anyone outside of their clique was to be looked down upon. They were heretical in that they taught contrary to the truth. The Serpent encouraged Adam and Eve to partake in the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in contrast to the Tree of Life. Typically what comes out of serpent's mouth kills, blinds and/or stings--simple, unmistakable message.

Such category of heretical Gnostics believed that salvation is through disembodiment altogether rather than through mastery or supremacy over body or through 'transfiguration' of body. Consider Elijah's being taken up on chariots: this does not jibe with such teaching.


And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 2 Kings 2:11

Related:
Gnosticism and the Gnostic Jesus (http://www.searchingthescriptures.net/main_pages/articles/gnosticism_jesus.htm)

David Merrill
11-03-15, 01:58 AM
You have an interesting way of saying murder is not sin.

I know. A sociopath commits murder without sinning. That is why they go into therapy.

BLBereans
11-03-15, 02:03 AM
That he survived the cross through subsequent death, resurrection and ascension into heaven is the Bible story. The victory over death is key as was afforded by faith in the remedy provided in the wilderness ala the brazen serpent--victory over death. The notion of ascension is also alluded to per Elijah (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Kings+2&version=KJV) and Enoch (who were taken up rather than having ascended of their own) thusly is not an invention of the NT.

The impression I get is that heretical Gnostics have set out to force their ideas of the material world being profane, thusly they could not accept that God or any divine being would have much to do with it. So they rendered the crucifixion event in a way that suited their philosophies: thusly him not dying and escaping the cross.

If there are truer words written regarding this, I haven't read them. Thanks allodial!

BLBereans
11-03-15, 02:05 AM
I know. A sociopath commits murder without sinning. That is why they go into therapy.

Or could it be that they go into therapy because the people who deny true sin believe as you do?

allodial
11-03-15, 02:25 AM
If there are truer words written regarding this, I haven't read them. Thanks allodial!

Come to think of it, would the multiple acts of restoration of the physical temple each be a type of resurrection? And if a temple is a house of stone, why would stone (matter) be a suitable abode for a god if all matter were profane? Is rebuilding a destroyed temple made of stone a type of necromancy?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PVcWjx23L._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


3172

According to that answer:
Solomon's Temple, built, destroyed, rebuilt, desecrated, torn down under Herod.
Herodian temple allegedly rebuild, destroyed.

Michael Joseph
11-03-15, 04:08 AM
Michael Joseph: Are you suggesting that to assert the validity and reality of the supernatural to reflect vestment in 'earthly meanings'? Or are you suggesting the kingdom to be wholly supernatural/spiritual but capable of producing good side effects in the physical?

For one, the overemphasis on sex in many so-called "Christian congregations" gives me insight they are totally missing or ignoring the spiritual meanings of fidelity to the truth. The so-called pastors are being used as tools to mislead--a higher level occultist referred to one as as one of his wolves--imagine a spiritual abortion clinic masquerading as a place for meeting of saints. Was it the Roman Catholic system that asserted a physical rendering of the kingdom by promoting the taking of Jerusalem between 1066 and 1099 which was about 1,000 years after the destruction of the temple? Wasn't that the beginning of a large series of conflicts between Catholics and Muslims? The Crusades?

The heavenly meanings have always been "couched" or "hidden" in the earthy physical, it is just that men, including myself, strain to see what is right in front of them. There is a deep structure and meaning between the terms Christ Jesus and Jesus Christ. Most just read right pass this difference reading but not seeing.

I think that many pastors are truly seeking to be helpful to the kingdom of God, thinking themselves good and righteous but in fact the blind only lead the blind into a ditch. Those who can only see the earthly are stuck in a duality construct. For their Heavens and their Earth are separated. It is only by the grace of God that the two become one. But the seeker is promised to find but only if he/she seeks with all that he/she has.

I am suggesting that I, in no way shape or form, can describe or know entirely the scope and presence of God. To do so, in my feeble mind, is blasphemy. For the moment I say God is "anything" [even love], I have limited God. Thusly I say God is BEING and my mind cannot know exactly what God is. My goal is mergence with God. To become One. Thusly Christ becomes me.

Now, I know the last sentence is bothersome to many but consider again what St. Paul wrote. St. Paul, a man, represents a deeper meaning for how can St. Paul travail in birth pains again? And what man ever birthed anything? Thusly there is a deeper structure, a deeper meaning, hidden below the facade of the physical. For St. Paul wrote "until Christ be formed in you."

Truth is indeed the key. For Jesus said "ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Therefore the "true baptism" is to be immersed in truth. That is to say to fully immerse one's head [mind] in water [truth]. But men see only the physical deed of physical immersion into h2o. This physical deed is dead and there is no life in it. For there is no light only some ritual act performed by some spiritually dead church.

Who was the greatest law breaker according to the Jews? Was it not Jesus? Why? In part, I believe, He was messing with their "business plan" but also He upset and exposed their dead works [traditions] and [misunderstandings] to be not pleasing to God. Thusly the fabric of their entire society was false. When one comes to these terrible realizations, then an earth quake happens as their entire world is rocked by the realization that all they knew and practiced was false. But if one looks carefully there remains TWO earthquakes!

For the mind indeed will cling to its understandings even if false and therefore the mind/heart connection will forge the false reality in man. The scriptures declare that we may know and understand the Godhead by looking at the things created. Thusly we explore all the aspects of man. And therefore, sex which is the means by which man creates is a physical representation of a deeper understanding. Some keep Sabbath in a church house. Others keep it in a field. If those in assembly are blind, then who is better off?

In my opinion most religions carry only the symbols of the LARGE fishes caught by Peter [the church]. But the true meaning of said Large fishes remain only, at this time, with God's Elect. For a fish is wisdom and the Large Fish [153] have the deeper understandings of the Kingdom of God "couched" or "hidden" in the physical holographic existence.

Consider Sampson [a state of mind]. I have received many a haircut but lost no strength in the transaction; however, if I see Sampson as a state of strength in the Spirit, then to receive a "haircut" is to be cut off from Unity with God into duality. My Heavens and my Earth are separated. Thus I am weak. When I am strong, I might kill 1000 Philistines [false thoughts] with a jawbone. But in my weakness I am made to toil under the yoke of carnality. For the Philistines put out my Spiritual Eyes and I can no longer see to see.

Notice it was the "woman" who was instrumental in allowing the Philistines to "cut his hair". She is desire - she is the "woman in red" the scarlet lady who deceives mankind [man and woman] so that the true purpose of man [the mind] is subverted and thusly the "hair is cut". Since man is the microcosm of the Universe, then the Woman must represent something within everyone in mankind. Just as the man must represent something in everyone in mankind. For what use is the woman? And for what use is the man? Do not these two come together in union to bring forth a child? How do they perform this deed? And what is the Heavenly meaning of this deed?

Who births the child, the man or the woman? So then, is it not vital to comprehend the female aspect in mankind so that a new reality might be birthed? For many beg like a hooker all night long and receive nothing. Why does the modern church turn its back upon knowledge, instruction, understanding and wisdom? Is God double minded such that we are commanded to get Wisdom? What then is the purpose of the Holy Spirit? Is it not to instruct and teach? Instruct what? And teach what?

Rom_10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Is it not good to have both zeal and knowledge? I think so! According to the great book of Salvation [Hosea] :

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

According to Christ Jesus God conceals a matter in the physical world. But in Jesus Christ the concealed is manifest. Regarding the Crusades, I could not say - only that it seems strange to me that men would kill other men in support of God. This too to me is another manifestation of the ignorances of man - externalizing the Spirit - and thus making the Word of God come to naught. It is no wonder that Jesus called religion a sickness and those steeped in it - dead?

But notice at once how the consciousness of man plays out on the global stage. Man in carnal consciousness - kills other men - in the name of their war God - pick any flavor. In deed the blind lead the blind. I wonder if one in one-million comprehend the death to the kings and the people represent "thoughts". The subjection of a people represent Abraham [higher self] ordering his Mind [house]. For the child of promise did not come from Abram but only Abraham. Those who only see matter will say that is the name of the same man but do not recognize the "state of Mind" symbolized in this being. This man is in fact - every man.

Seeing the Light in Abraham, will one still cling to earthly interpretations and existence? Maybe, but which is greater, the earthly or the heavenly? Do we not seek the title "Friend of God"? Do we not seek "a new name"? Why does man think he must die - physically- in order for a mental/emotional process [transformation] to occur? Martha, Mary's sister thought this to be true.

One day the preacher seeking to serve God informed an island man that if He did not submit and place his faith in Christ he would not be saved. The preacher man continued to propound that hell awaited those who refuse. The island man asked if hell awaited him in his ignorance prior to this new knowledge. The preacher man said no. The island man replied "then, why did you tell me?"

That is the question begging to be answered!

BLBereans
11-04-15, 12:09 AM
While we may not be able to fully know the full scope of God and His complete being, we are His "imagers" and He meets us where, and as, we are. That was the very reason for Him incarnating in the form of Jesus of Nazareth; we needed His intervention and He answered according to our needs.

We are created in His image, which is to say that we are His representatives on earth and our goal is to do as He would do as best we can. We are to fulfill His Will and follow His Way so as to reclaim the lost souls who have been coerced and deceived by the Adversary. Our news is good news and we are to spread that message throughout our lives as emulated by our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ.

We require His saving grace so as to avoid the wages of sin which is death, forever. Man has transgressed and the world is in a state of corruption as a result. We cannot avoid sinning and our only Way out is to accept the generous gift offered as our redemption.

Those who claim they do not sin are fooling themselves and will have to account for themselves in the end. There will be no covering and there will be no concession. That is a position everyone will regret when and if that time comes.

Realize now that YOUR way is the WRONG way and our Lord and Savior has provided cover for you if you will only accept it.

David Merrill
11-04-15, 12:19 AM
What an enjoyable post Michael Joseph!



In my opinion most religions carry only the symbols of the LARGE fishes caught by Peter [the church]. But the true meaning of said Large fishes remain only, at this time, with God's Elect. For a fish is wisdom and the Large Fish [153] have the deeper understandings of the Kingdom of God "couched" or "hidden" in the physical holographic existence.

When I spoke that the Passover Lamb's blood is for identification (on the doorposts) rather than as a sacrifice, using the instruction that if a family was so small they could not finish the lamb in one setting they pool together with a neighbor family, the churchman countered with:


Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:

He realized that he made my point for me. We come into the higher priesthood of Melchizedek through election.

A week later he had deduced that it does not matter because Jesus is ultimately the Answer, if not the ultimate Sacrifice. No reason to argue about it...

I find that people think I insult Paul because he spent three years researching with the King up in Damascus, going abroad into Asia Minor to field test how this survival could be misconstrued into a Resurrection (according to Zechariah). Some feel it robs CHRIST of divinity when I see it as opening up the divinity of CHRIST and making it available to all who seek truth, and even those who don't are simply delaying it inside an illusion called time.

Some of your post rings out with the truth that Antipas was caught in adultery with Philip's wife, and supposing Archelaus had died Jesus, the bastard was properly crowned by the Prophet John BAPTIST and would have had a go, had he only overlooked the usury of contracting the kosher coinage (overturning the moneychangers' tables). The first thing Jesus did was convict the sitting Tetrarch and the entire priesthood of high crimes against God. This is a good start but it seems likely Jesus laid low hoping God would come through with some enforcement. Ergo the Book of Mark is actually the Parable of Mark designed to preserve the Crown for Jesus or at least for his Bloodline.

This rendition and interpretation being realistic is much more fascinating to me than supernatural events requiring faith. But then again, I programmed optimum resonance for the naturally occurring isotopes and out came the Names of God and Jesus! So I really don't need a supernatural God. God spoke to me, and told me His Name is in everything.

State Court Prayer. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1EaV_bU7VImVnI5aEZsZEQ2ZUE/view?usp=sharing)

All in all I actually doubt that I have insulted anybody. If you are faithful I am sure that you are more so now, if anything.

allodial
11-04-15, 12:56 AM
Re: The supernatural
While false teachings and systems based on a 'vain show of religiosity' might convince some men of the supernatural being out of reach, that is not what the Bible teaches. The resurrection is important because it asserts the subordinate mode of the physical realm. There is a big difference between superimposing false, lofty, vain concepts of out-of-reach 'powers' or 'gods' on the Bible and the true supernatural power and holy of a God that is not a far off god. The Bible does not teach of a far off god that must be 'sought' through a tiny pincushion sized hole managed by an 'Elite Religiosity Corps'. The idea of supernatural as in "some far off unreachable notions" is one thing. But that isn't what the resurrection imposes.

Re: Bloodline
The spiritual bloodline is mentioned at Matthew 12:15:


For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. --Matthew 12:50


"For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother." --Mark 3:35

The emphasis on or allusion to any physical bloodline is questionable.

1. direct peer in the holy work
2. sister also does the holy work but is covered by the brother, father
3. nurturing, sustaining --the congregation members can act together as a mother to its members (doctrinal milk, meat and water)


3175
Source: The Kingdom of God, by Alexander Balmain Bruce


By extrapolating, extracting and protecting the nurturing nature of the Father out to some far off, the Christ's assembly would be excoriated of its maternal aspects, the attendees being like schoolchildren set out to compete with each other rather than being those who ought to be eager to nurture and uphold one other with God's help. That is, not only do the underminers seek to distance the Father, they also aim to obscure the maternal aspects--they elected for an impersonal, far off god and so they got it, but also want everyone else to have the same.

David Merrill
11-04-15, 01:00 AM
Re: The supernatural
While false teachings and systems based on a 'vain show of religiosity' might convince some men of the supernatural being out of reach, that is not what the Bible teaches. The resurrection is important because it asserts the subordinate mode of the physical realm. There is a big difference between superimposing false, lofty, vain concepts of out-of-reach 'powers' or 'gods' on the Bible and the true supernatural power and holy of a God that is not a far off god. The Bible does not teach of a far off god that must be 'sought' through a tiny pincushion sized hole managed by an 'Elite Religiosity Corps'. The idea of supernatural as in "some far off unreachable notions" is one thing. But that isn't what the resurrection imposes.


I like that. Thank you Allodial.

xparte
11-04-15, 05:47 PM
Trying to hold my fears..
All my memories hunting me,
my future, my past... colliding together in one.
Wondering what could happen, what should I do to make it go away?
I wonder in sorrow, I feel so weak,
desperate to be just me as others see me..
My faith holds me as reality won't let me rest
faith is this all could end sometime
but in my darkness moments, not yet darkest
alone I am not anymore to just let go of me..
My emotions are Crying out-loud but just make me feel weaker
Truly,i wish they,de just let go of me..
The best of you will come,
time will dictate your path in our world
your future in already written,
simply believe that all that happens and
have a reason to be as it is now in your heart.
Each path have to go on a separate way,
we know the truth but can't hide it anymore,
Faith in others, we need to go our way..
Broken heart, empty heart..its not you its
Just me..Christ /as best i can define my gospel without knowledge of Me i will never find you .

David Merrill
11-04-15, 08:03 PM
Beautiful!

That covers some important mental explorations about separateness.

allodial
11-05-15, 04:33 AM
Ah, it might be most inappropriate to fail to mention that the Egyptians of the Exodus period were said to have seen Moses as practicing sorcery, witchcraft and to be evil. It is interesting that similar views would be had concerning Jesus the Anointed/Christ by those who opposed him. Could some parallel or relationship exist between those who Moses encountered as hostile to Israel and those who Jesus encountered as hostile. On that note, begs the question: is are the terms 'Herod' and 'Pharaoh' somehow related or even synonymous?

Of course those who see a "true god" as being impersonal and disinterested in the physical realm(s) might also completely shun the idea of a "true god" intervening in "goings on" in physical realm(s). Now if their view of the physical realm is based on the idea of 'matter' being evil, then I suppose that their view of an "impersonal god" would make sense. I'm not sure how matter can be evil being any more than a pair of sunglasses or a rock could be evil.

xparte
11-05-15, 04:37 AM
Let us make him in our own image well separateness.

xparte
11-05-15, 05:08 AM
what let us image was God going for the evil one the good one lonely one sad one, is Christ painting a picture with his the only true image of God Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness why we know his first creation fell short of this image or like us cant live up to Christ's image either so heaven had a war with its image or ours .

BLBereans
11-05-15, 11:29 PM
what let us image was God going for the evil one the good one lonely one sad one, is Christ painting a picture with his the only true image of God Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness why we know his first creation fell short of this image or like us cant live up to Christ's image either so heaven had a war with its image or ours .

Interesting question. I guess it all depends upon how you define "image" and if you believe there exists a supernatural being, higher than us, who is our Creator.

In my opinion, we were made in his likeness or "image" in that we have the choice to do evil or not. God makes choices and ALWAYS chooses good and righteousness. He gave us that ability as well, to choose, yet we are a bit lower than Him as creation must be by definition. Therefore, the fact that we choose unwisely or choose to go against His Will does NOT mean God is at war Himself. He is NOT a programmed robot and neither are we - choosing to love and be righteous makes those things relevant.

Like a loving Father, He is patient and loves His children even when the wrong choices are made. Only willful defiance and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable since that is an eternal choice to do as YOU will rather than do as He Wills. That choice is tantamount to allegiance to one's SELF and to be at the service of the Adversary with knowing and willing intent - choosing another master/god.

xparte
11-06-15, 02:44 AM
Our image is eternal i believe Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness Gods first creation externalized man to give external existence or form to.
"elements of the internal construction were externalized onto the facade that pharoes popes kings are that image Im asking what does {let us make means mankind in our image, in our likeness} could it mean following graven images willful defiance of the being demoted into mankind God had a democracy in heaven mankind is the better image only in Christ . Adversary giving effect and facade is as far as it goes God lets his thoughts known as ours are only choice. BLB willing intent not Gods will.I am convinced mans adversarial effect is on himself and mankind. God has no Adversary so we created one for ourselves .I appreciate your patience BLB, as my image is my own Adversary with Christ no two thieves are the same its that worst enemy image sale .

DEfiat
11-08-15, 01:28 PM
I know a guy whose teenage boy was showing interest in a certain teenage girl. The father objected and discouraged a relationship. The son persisted and saw no reason he shouldn't date the girl. Finally the father shared his big secret with his son: he had fathered some children out of wedlock and the girl was his half-sister.

David Merrill
11-08-15, 04:15 PM
It makes me wonder - Was it love at first sight?

allodial
11-09-15, 01:11 AM
I know a guy whose teenage boy was showing interest in a certain teenage girl. The father objected and discouraged a relationship. The son persisted and saw no reason he shouldn't date the girl. Finally the father shared his big secret with his son: he had fathered some children out of wedlock and the girl was his half-sister.

Many a time has this happened. A half sister and half brother are highly attracted to each other and don't even know why--get married, etc.

xparte
11-09-15, 03:08 AM
Abram living in the house of Shem being taught the law of God. So Abraham knew God's law very well and would have known it was improper for him to marry his sister. Sarah was actually Abraham's niece. Leviticus 18 does not prohibit the marriage of a man and his niece. So it is helpful to remember how Abraham understood the word sister when reading the following.And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.Lot is called Abram's brother. So one might suggest that in Abram's day the word brother could be understood to also include nephews. Let me suggest that the same is true for the word sister.And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughters of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.Jasher 12:44
And at that time Nahor and Abram took unto themselves wives, the daughters of their brother Haran; God being Abrams Dad thus Sarai was daughter of his father God. Sons of man did this took daughters unto themselves as wives that union needed a flood? can some one tell me what the word us or who the word US is in reference too let us make mankind in our image?

allodial
11-09-15, 03:48 AM
And so this is why the question: Where is the proof that Abraham was under Mosaic law? Where is there proof of the Melchezidek and the Mosaic-Levitical systems being the same? Why are so many people comfortable imposing ex post facto laws on the past? Consider, if the age of consent in the State of Florida were 21, then after some time people might start reading the Bible or other texts through the mental lens of what is legal under the laws of the State of Florida. I am unaware of Abraham being under the Mosaic-Levitical system which did not come about until hundreds years after his life.

xparte
11-09-15, 06:12 AM
Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." does not prohibit the marriage of a man and his niece .So this is Leviticus 18 Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. ... “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere. How else but a niece .is my only thought the Leviticus 18 could never apply God he kept his word and his law Abraham post Leviticus

xparte
11-09-15, 06:24 AM
I am unaware of Abraham being under the Mosaic-Levitical system which did not come about until hundreds years after his life.Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."Gods then traditional Mosaic-Levitical system is being de facto if God never had to tell Abe Do not have sexual relations with your sister,it wasn't his sister.

allodial
11-09-15, 06:42 AM
That gets to the psychology where some people justify or exalt themselves by projecting laws to which they are subject onto others. "We have a law requiring that 'all' wear lederhosen so those who don't wear lederhosen must be infidels!" I'm not sure how anyone can read Exodus and Numbers and come to the conclusion that the Mosaic-Levitical system was at that time implemented by Moses on a planetary basis or was implemented as a means of rewarding the Israelites for the Golden Calf incident.

The proponents of "tabula rosa" or the "blank slate" theory would have one believe that babies are born without any innate nature or conditioning whatsoever. It was well known prior to the 1930s that babies at the least took on neurological/subconscious characteristics of their parents--especially their mother--during the 9 months of gestation.

xparte
11-09-15, 07:07 AM
This is when folks get upset its to obvious what law Abe was under not his Sisters is the point is its people we are talking about thats all the old testament had was its people .Like Sodom like Vegas those people are all out of towners. Adam blamed Eve blamed choice. Sarah and Abe are out of towners Abe had a choice yet Egypt had no choice in the boils that prevented sex with Sara look at the wealth Abe traded sara for .God wants fidelity if Egypt was incestuous. Abe was industrious

xparte
11-09-15, 07:13 AM
Again what option does Abe have if he is fathering nations without God forget Moses how does Abe not know he cant marry his sister?

xparte
11-09-15, 07:27 AM
What can we read into a Man that claims he married his sister then Moses says its against the law was it that bad for incest homosexuality in Sodom lot abram sari never turned back moses put it on the books for a reason help me distinguish how morality needs no law but gets one just in case.

David Merrill
11-09-15, 09:57 PM
Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." does not prohibit the marriage of a man and his niece .So this is Leviticus 18 Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. ... “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere. How else but a niece .is my only thought the Leviticus 18 could never apply God he kept his word and his law Abraham post Leviticus

What I was looking for projected back through filters of conditioning. I found the guilt trip. It did not need to have law. The recombining DNA would probably not be such a problem in itself.

Therefore I also contribute allowing Sarah to kill Hagar on a bitchy jealous whim, alienating his genetically sound son; that was also a big guilt trip.

The presumption is that guilt causes that feeling of separation called sin. DEBT/DEATH/DOUBT are virtually the same work in an alphabet that has very few vowels. Doubt that you have God's love? That is sin.

xparte
11-09-15, 10:50 PM
Truth and humility and suffering without sin the education.Guilt is mans institution written down time has a way of changing everything truth has no way of changing time.If Paul had a Damascus he left us understanding guilt where All guilt is in still the book whats a relationship without God but internal suffering.how can one find God without Sin humility self empting is my understanding guilt. What offends God is in the book I have no dream to take you to
I have no ring for you to kiss
Truth, all I have is this
I have no way to hold you now
I have no time to show you how
I have no gold, nothing to risk
Truth, all we have is this a journey how the truth falls is what your willing to risk humility and suffering shared with God the world suffers guilt for Gold.

xparte
11-09-15, 11:09 PM
The recombining DNA would probably not be such a problem in itself. My Sister is it only used to save Abraham's life and Sarah's virtue or exploitation do we conceal truth from God suffer some boils and find out Take your wife back take the silver back is the temple being rebuilt check with the internal carpenter. Christ is the other gold heist the truth and humility is you're already been caught hiding from the truth.

Michael Joseph
11-10-15, 12:30 AM
The recombining DNA would probably not be such a problem in itself. My Sister is it only used to save Abraham's life and Sarah's virtue or exploitation do we conceal truth from God suffer some boils and find out Take your wife back take the silver back is the temple being rebuilt check with the internal carpenter. Christ is the other gold heist the truth and humility is you're already been caught hiding from the truth.

In my humble opinion - at Genesis 5:2 He called their name Adam.....

Thusly in my estimation Adam/Eve were metaphysically the same being. Adam being the Mind and Eve [Spirit or Emotion]. The Serpent is the Central Nervous System. Thusly in Abram [mind] he would find his 1/2 sister in Sarai [Emotion]. Notice that Abram could not impregnate Sarah. Only Abraham [higher Mind] could get that done. For Sarah is the barren woman of Isaiah 54 [one of them - depends on the tale]. Abraham experienced his Armageddon at the battle of the Kings whereof the lower aspects fell and the Higher came with peace [dove/olive twig].

In Adam - mind always proceeds matter. He's inside you and Me. For the letter of the law is dead - but the Spirit gives light/life.

"The bloody Church of England
in chains of history
requests your earthly presence at
the vicarage for tea.

Confessing to the endless sin
the endless whining sounds.
You'll be praying till next Thursday to
all the gods that you can count." - Jethro Tull

Musical Interlude.... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THZOIMOhF_4)

The children of desolation are born of the lower mind and emotion. The lower mind cannot impregnate Spirit. But when Rachel brought forth for Jacob she produced the Christ type and the son of His Strength [right hand]. And Joseph [Christ type] told Judah [Spirit] bring me the Child - get back to daddy and bring me the Child Benyahmin.

This is true today. For Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto me.

MJ - out.

allodial
11-12-15, 03:31 AM
Additional history in the Bible is found at Ezra and Nehemiah. There was an eleven-year civil war when the Jews returned to Israel. The war was between the newly created Jew (Babylon) and the People of the Land - the Israelite. This seems downplayed in current thought. In my understanding among the Christians (we) feel that the only occupant outside the Jews of Israel was Rome. Babylon/Jew had been a foreign occupation for hundreds of years by then. This is why I believe that the Magi visitation was a common commercial oversight. These "kings" were wealthy merchants visiting their colony on the Temple Mount. Tyre, (Tel Aviv) was and maybe still is their coastal colony. This is the essence of METRO (now lately the City of London) - conquer the mind and territorial matters are moot.

The Jews were the conqueror state. The Israelite population lost the war for the Temple Mount. That occupation was too far from Rome so Caesars left it alone, satisfied with a statue or two... and eagle here and there.

Meant to add that I had always had the impression that the Zoroastrians had also picked up a few things from Israel as well, rather than one way around--two way 'rubbing off' you could say. That it wasn't a one-way street, especially considering the 'syncretism as a way of governing' methodology. Afterall, wouldn't Israel's prophecy to his sons about the timing of when the scepter would depart from Judah predate Zoroastrian some thousand+ years (maybe even over 1,500 years?), that could not have been borrowed from someone a thousand+ years before they existed, no? Zoroaster is typically pegged to have lived around 600 B.C. The irony is that all of those writers who suggest "Christians" to have borrowed from the Egyptians are basically admitting the prophecies of the coming Messiah were known of as far back as Israel's time. Perhaps it was the Babylonians that were borrowing things?

Keeping in mind of course, it was kosher for others to borrow from Israel and the Hebrews, but not Kosher for the Hebrews to incorporate 'foreign gods'. Also, unlike Gnostic offshoots, neither true pure Bible saints' doctrines nor that of the ancient Hebrews subscribed to a 'duality' of good and evil equally matched (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1724-The-Ismailis&p=18726&viewfull=1#post18726).

Consider also, the significance of Daniel having rejected the 'bread/meat and wine' from the Babylonian king. Consider the parallel between bread and wine, Abraham and Melchizedek (~Genesis 14:18) and the Daniel and company and Babylonian king who was also a priest-king. If the Babylonian system was of the same system as that of Melchizedek when why would Daniel & co. reject it. Were they aware that the bread and wine was from not only from a priest and king (i.e. that Nebuchadnezzar was also a priest), but also from a foreign system? Hmmmm, might there some kind of parallel with Daniel & company's two distinct choices for food and the choice Adam and Eve were given: a choice between the Tree of Life etc. and the Tree Knowledge of Good and Evil? The Tree of Life has been said to be symbolic of a priest or priesthood (the Christ--that is, the Anointed). If the Babylonian king represented a priest-hood, clearly it was not one that Daniel and company recognized as of their own? (~Daniel 1) Remember, that Assyria was likened to a tree in sepher Ezekiel.

IMHO, Daniel 1 is testimony that all gods aren't the same--that are multiple potential gods or objects of worship, though there be only one truly worth such worship. Daniel skids in the face of syncretism and related idolatry. If there were only one god why would Daniel refuse bread/meat and wine from the Babylonian priest-king? CLEARLY DANIEL'S WAS NEITHER A PANTHEISTIC NOR A UNIVERSALIST VIEW! How could food be dedicated to an idol or to a foreign god and be inappropriate if this idea of 'all gods are the same' were true? Is it not evident that the imaginations of men, however elaborate, can become objects of worship? Can one be so sure of Allah, Zoroaster and the God of Israel being one in the the same?


Thank you for such a simple take on R4C!

This is what is helpful to me. To be able to speak truthfully in simple terms and in a short enough time to keep the listener's attention.

The conflict of laws is METRO organization public policy verses constitutions and statutes. Like I brought up about the oaths of office. One might use the emotionalism of cyberspace, social media, to sway the audience to persuade the judge that this is the best thing, NOT to hear the case at all.

So METRO could accurately be described as an admiralty, contract-enforcement venue resulting from 'syncretism' and conflict of laws or the 'resulting venue' ( like a resulting trust) arising out of deep conflict of laws? Interesting, so if a something "rises out of the sea", is that to say it to be a by-product of certain conduct of certain multitudes or 'mixed multitudes'?

So.... could it be that Daniel and company exercised refusal for cause (i.e. right of avoidance) with respect to staving off adverse consequences of conflict of laws by refraining from partaking in the meat/bread and wine of the Babylonian mystery schools--they R4C'd merger of Babylonian mystery school rites with those of the bread and wine of Melchizedek or subordinates thereof? I suspect that if Daniel & co. had participated in the rite, Daniel may not have been of much use as a dream interpreter.

Re: Darius [II] and "the Jews"
It has been suggested that Darius was making political moves by aiming to incorporate Hebrews doctrine into the system he was part of--standard government by syncretism methodology. The "Jews" of the day may have seen it as a positive, Darius ulterior motives being missed (http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0210PersiaJudaism.php#Temple).


Judaism was the religion of the Juddin, a syncretic religion for cooperative people set up by the Persians. Yehud was set up as the center of it, and their presence elsewhere was explained by the Babylonian captivity. Few of them wanted to return to a place they had never known, but they accepted Yehud as their origin, the Temple priesthood as their leaders, and the myths planted by the Persians as their own. By the time of the Sassanids, they had forgotten or abandoned the earlier policy of syncretism in the fear that the children were overwhelming the parent. (source (http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0210PersiaJudaism.php#Temple)) [Warning: slanted site but he gives a very detailed look at how calculating the Persians were in designing their system of rule.]

Oddly enough, the Islamic/Muslim perspective on Christians and Jews is startlingly similar to the Zoroastrian view: tolerated or acceptable helper religions. But where there are those who are free of the syncretism, the nexus is lacking for the 'foreign gods' to latch on. Thusly, jurisdiction is lost. Perhaps this is why they make a stink over doctrinal purism (such an approach throws out their jurisdictional nexus for lack of conflict of laws and for lack of 'strange gods' from the Hebrew/Judean/Messianic perspective)?


Massoume Price in The Iranian confirms that Zoroastrianism made a place for certain foreign gods as helpers of Ahuramazda. The ruling principle was the advancement of reliable communities and the punishment of disloyal ones. Persian kings were ruthless with rebellions, including ones by the Persian satraps and members of the royal household. Groups which rebelled were punished irrespective of race or religion. The Jews were usually loyal and so were prosperous.

3201 (http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/9202/was-baptism-practiced-before-christ)

Re: New Testament doctrine and Zoroastrianism
Some try to suggest the doctrine of the saints (as distinct from Gnostic 'innovations') to be derived from Zoroastrianism. I wouldn't be so quick to arrive at such a conclusion as some have--which seems possible if one makes lots of presumptions. Some say that baptism (mikveh (http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/9202/was-baptism-practiced-before-christ) it is said was practice at least since the time of Moses!), breaking bread, etc. to be Zoroastrian. However, it is clear that Abraham had bread and wine ala Melchizedek, Israel foretold the coming of Jesus over 1,000 years before Zoroaster lived. So many throw Zoroastrianism at the doctrine of the saints when its likely (because Daniel's and Joseph's impression on Egypt and history) that the Babylonians would have borrowed from the Hebrews than vice-versa. Thusly, it seems that Abraham and the Israelites were Hebrews rather than "Jews" in the Darius sense. Judah of course, like Israel, was Hebrew, no?

Also, many seem to speak of the Essense without mentioning the existence of two or more variations.

Related:

When the Scepter Departed from Judah (Genesis Messianic Prophecy Fulfilled) (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1791-When-the-Scepter-Departed-from-Judah-(Genesis-Messianic-Prophecy-Fulfilled))
Yehud (Babylonian Province) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehud_%28Babylonian_province%29)
Theocratic Yehud?: Issues of Government in a Persian Province (Library Hebrew Bible Old Testament Studies) (http://www.amazon.com/Theocratic-Yehud-Government-Province-Testament/dp/0567599345/)
Signs of Jonah: Reading and Rereading in Ancient Yehud (JSOT Supplement) (www.amazon.com/Signs-Jonah-Reading-Rereading-Testament/dp/0567222934/)
The Emergence of Yehud in the Persian Period: A Social and Demographic Study (JSOT Supplement Series) (http://www.amazon.com/Emergence-Yehud-Persian-Period-Demographic/dp/1841270121/)

allodial
11-15-15, 09:45 AM
A link: Jesus and the Pharisees (http://www.lastdays.org.uk/jesus-and-the-pharisees.html). If Jesus was a Zoroastrian, why was he so very much opposed by the Pharisees/Persians/Farsis who are said to be most Zoroastrian influenced of those around at time? That is because the doctrines of Israel go further back than Darius I, Darius II, Daniel and Babylon. As indicated above the prophecy Israel (http://biblehub.com/genesis/49-10.htm) (fka Jacob) gave to his sons at Genesis 49:10 concerning the scepter departing from Judah (the house of his son named Judah) was over a thousand years before Zoroaster and during Joseph's (Imhotep's) life.

It seems that Babylonian and Persian systems liked to claim to be the origin of the doctrines that they acquired from people they believed that they conquered. Likely, as the result of captivity an exile of Israel, they made the error of believing they took ownership of the God of Israel in consequence of having taken Israel into captivity.

Related:

If Genesis Was Borrowed from Babylonian Epic, Why An Egyptian Word for Noah’s Ark? (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1895-If-Genesis-Borrowed-from-Babylonian-Epic-Why-An-Egyptian-Word-for-Noah%E2%80%99s-Ark)
Meet Joseph aka Imhotep (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1685-Meet-Joseph-aka-Imhotep-(under-Djoser-s-Reign))

David Merrill
11-15-15, 08:50 PM
So METRO could accurately be described as an admiralty, contract-enforcement venue resulting from 'syncretism' and conflict of laws or the 'resulting venue' ( like a resulting trust) arising out of deep conflict of laws? Interesting, so if a something "rises out of the sea", is that to say it to be a by-product of certain conduct of certain multitudes or 'mixed multitudes'?


Merovingians - MER - brine, bitter water. of the sea.

The first Merovingian King allegedly was spawned of a sea monster impregnating his mother when she swam in the sea.

Mary MAGDALENE fled to France to preserve the Bloodline.

Jesus fled to Damascus.

Then the Forgiveness and Judgment began in METRO (NY Stock Exchange).

It feels like the death rattle of commercial priestcraft.

xparte
11-15-15, 09:22 PM
The 72hrs three clear day,s Did Christ just evidence this as it was invented before Crucifixion isnt Crucifixion just a bank term bankrupted Thief and bad loans Christ is CEO fine print who does your books

BLBereans
11-16-15, 01:15 AM
Mary MAGDALENE fled to France to preserve the Bloodline.

Jesus fled to Damascus.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ

allodial
11-16-15, 05:10 AM
I suspect that the Merovingians and such may have been weaving yarns to justify their rule. The Gospels and the OT seem to point to a 'pneumocracy (https://books.google.com/books?id=CuZLCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT71&lpg=PT71)' rather than to a bloodline monarchy. Jesus conferred power on all of the saints not just a handful. The conferring of the kingdom in heaven was on all of the believers. Thusly, if it was a bloodline thing, every single one of them that escaped Jerusalem would have a heaven-royal bloodline. The Templars it is said upon arrival at Jerusalem (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/templars/knights_templars01.htm) ~1070 AD (nearly 1,000 years after 70 A.D.) were said to have been surprised at hearing about prophecies that had been fulfilled already--thusly they do not appear to have been 'insiders' especially with a 1,000 year late arrival.

3205

Believe it or not, it was a Rabbi Jonathan/Jonna that observed the attack on Jerusalem from 66 A.D. and wrote about it. His writings are part of the Midrashim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash_Tehillim). And he himself said that the Glory departed the temple and stood on the Mount of Olives for 3 and 1/2 years (1260 days or so--starting ~66 A.D.) before finally departing from Jerusalem just before Titus and his forces arrived. Ezekiel (11:23), Zechariah (14:4) and Jesus referred to this. The link between the Glory, Christ and the OT is rather obvious. Josephus also wrote of the same thing. The glory departed from the temple and settled upon the Mount of Olives.

3204
From Hastings' Dictionary of the Bible.

The anointing was given to the saints who had tarried at Jerusalem. All of the saints were given crowns (were annointed) and the kingdom thusly was conferred on them (Ephesians 1 and 2). Jesus did not keep the kingdom exclusively to himself! The royal priesthood was not confined into a single bloodline. Considering the Gospel and historical record, there is little if any evidence to knowledge of Jesus wanting to preserve a special bloodline for himself when his family consists of all of the saints/believers. Now, it might be that certain societies were made aware of this and have acted behind the scenes to see to it that heritage of the saints be preserved. But as for the Merovingians having some exclusive rights or claims to the kingdom, that seems very unscriptural.


On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. Zech. 14:4

One should soberly consider the identity of Jesus the Anointed in view of the foregoing. The method by which the saints escaped is also reminiscent of the Passover in Egypt.


What about Jesus standing on the Mount of Olives, a reference to Zechariah 14:4? Mr. Hunt says this has never happened. This is the passage that futurists use to support their claim that Jesus will return from heaven with his “raptured” saints and touch down on the Mount of Olives and set up His millennial kingdom. Of course, one of the problems in making Zechariah 14:4–5 refer to Christ’s second coming and a millennial reign is that it does not say that Jesus will come out of heaven to stand on the Mount of Olives after a “rapture” of the church, followed by a seven-year tribulation period, and prior to a thousand-year reign of Jesus on the earth, something the Revelation 20 does not say. These ideas have to be read into the text. The verse states simply “in that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.”

The New Testament gives us a hint on when and how this was fulfilled. At the point of Jesus’ death, the veil in the temple “was torn in two from top to bottom” (Matt. 27:51). This event could be seen from the Mount of Olives where Jesus was crucified. Notice the rest of the verse: “and the earth shook and the rocks were split,” the very thing Zechariah predicts.

Earlier Christian writers applied Zechariah 14:4 to the work of Christ in His day as well. Tertullian (A.D. 145–220) wrote: “‘But at night He went out to the Mount of Olives.’ For thus had Zechariah pointed out: ‘And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives’ [Zech. xiv. 4].”2 Tertullian was alluding to the fact that the Olivet prophecy set the stage for the judgment coming of Jesus that manifested itself with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 which would once for all break down the Jewish/Gentile division inherent in the Old Covenant (Eph. 2). (source (http://americanvision.org/5120/jesus-already-stood-on-the-mount-of-olives/))

A great deception attempted to be foisted on believers is in concealing the facts and truth of history so as to leave as many as possible expecting long-past events to come in the future. The great authority the saints have through prayer and such is unfathomable to many of them because much effort to obscure it by efforts to control the printing presses and Sunday schools. What's worse? The blind leading the blind or the blind leading the sighted?

Again, the identity of Jesus is made clear throughout the historical record even in the Midrashim. Those who rejected Jesus then have endeavored to bury or ignore the historical record and have had to invent a whole new set of yarns to support a futuristic approach to deal with what already happened. In other words, being so sure of him having yet come (rejecting He who has already come) they set to embroil the world in their notion conjuring. If the Good & Worthy Shepard was rejected then according to Zechariah the Worthless Shepherd is what might get. The amount of horror and suffering the twisters-of-truth-and-history have caused planet-wide is unspeakable and more than sad.

Related:

The Name Jesus (Yeshua/Yesha) In the Old Testament (savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?1802-The-Name-Jesus-(Yeshua)-In-the-Old-Testament)
Jesus Is Not A Missing Person (www.benwilliamslibrary.com/pdfs/jesus_is_not_a_missing_person.pdf)

David Merrill
11-16-15, 04:41 PM
I wonder how common it is for the visual cortex to become sensitive to auras, or in this story SHEKINAH, the Glory. Pentacost, the Dove at John's Baptism etc.

My rendition is based around the first political act of the new King backfiring. He drove out the moneychangers and disrupted the tax/revenue collection system. Maybe he should have waited it out until next year?

I have not given that the Merovingian Kings were the true Bloodline any real consideration. I read The Guardians of the Grail by CHURCH. Holy Blood, Holy Grail too. There is just no evidence except maybe a birthmark. However your post ties some threads together.

The Templars returning with expensive treasures required a law system to justify the theft. Eleanor of Aquitaine adopted the Laws of Oleron and so the stolen treasures became salvage in admiralty. This I got from Delovio v. Boit 1815.

3206

allodial
11-16-15, 05:11 PM
The Templars returning with expensive treasures required a law system to justify the theft. Eleanor of Aquitaine adopted the Laws of Oleron and so the stolen treasures became salvage in admiralty. This I got from Delovio v. Boit 1815.

That seems to be used to justify theft all around. It is also said that the Templars thought they were seeing the "Jerusalem surrounded" prophecy fulfilled. But yet they didn't realize it had occurred a thousand years prior. The armies under Titus, etc. were said to be have been made up of many different nations not just Romans. The Templars, like many others were in the dark as to prophetic fulfillment. Thusly the idea of them being 'insiders' on some scheme of Jesus seems very unlikely.


I wonder how common it is for the visual cortex to become sensitive to auras, or in this story SHEKINAH, the Glory. Pentacost, the Dove at John's Baptism etc.

It is said that children are capable of seeing ghosts, apparitions, spirits, etc. and that there is an active effort by "PTB" to see to it that such abilities are lost ASAP. It is generally regarded that some entities exist in the infrared (http://theghosthunterstore.com/tech-support/infrared-and-full-spectrum-cameras-things-ghost-hunter-should-know/). That said, Pentecostal conventions are quite the experience.

Another thing is that it was scientifically proven that the nervous system can actually 'hear' even up to 40 kHz (http://www.icehouse.net/john1/mucci.html), but there is a system that attenuates those frequencies unless certain conditions are met. Movie theaters for the deaf were designed back in the early to mid 1900s and perhaps even sooner using such technology. Consider that eardrums are 'feeding' physical vibrations to the nervous system (http://consumer.healthday.com/bone-and-joint-information-4/bone-joint-and-tendon-news-72/underwater-humans-hear-through-their-bones-653235.html). That is, there is more proof that the body, brain or mind are actively throwing away information regarded to be 'in excess' and are capable of detection stimulus outside the 'normal range'.


TUESDAY, May 24, 2011 (HealthDay News) -- Humans possess the ability to hear far higher pitched sounds when underwater than they can while on terra firma.

How can they do it? By "hearing" with their bones rather than through the normal pathways of hearing, U.S. Navy researchers report.

The way in which humans hear above or below water differs; that difference means they only hear between 20 and 20,000 hertz through the air, while they can catch sounds all the way up to 200,000 hertz when submerged. (source (http://consumer.healthday.com/bone-and-joint-information-4/bone-joint-and-tendon-news-72/underwater-humans-hear-through-their-bones-653235.html))

More than meets the eye..literally.