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Axe
04-21-11, 10:35 PM
I need some input here from any suitors that run their own businesses.

Hopefully you will sacrifice a little bit of your time and charitably contribute
to this thread.

I've been redeeming lawful money for over 2 years, and have copies (front and back)
of all checks that I've done this to.

I'm a sole proprietor, and have a business license from my state.

I do not have a "business" bank account. I just run two personal checking
accounts and a saving account, using one of the checking accounts for the
business, and the savings for the local sales tax I have to pay quarterly here
to the local borough.

Customers give me personal checks, or pay online with PayPal.

With Paypal, there was no way to do anything with a restricted endorsement
so I just withdraw from Paypal via check and apply the endorsement to that.

Running my business costs a reasonable amount of money (expenses), which are
to be deducted from the total (gross) amount.

The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't
able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.

This would be things like having to do an electronic transfer to my bank,
or making purchases direct from my PayPal debit card. This is a much smaller
amount than the lawful money amount.

The goal is obviously to be completely honest in all of my dealings, so on my return
I declare all of my expenses, which is what runs me into the red.

Maybe I'm missing something very simple here, but I need to figure out how to
do this accounting under this system.

If I only report expenses that I paid with Fed notes, then it will appear deceiving,
as my business would have obviously had more expenses than that.

So my question is how are you guys writing this up?

Thanks.

Michael Joseph
04-21-11, 11:00 PM
I need some input here from any suitors that run their own businesses.

Hopefully you will sacrifice a little bit of your time and charitably contribute
to this thread.

I've been redeeming lawful money for over 2 years, and have copies (front and back)
of all checks that I've done this to.

I'm a sole proprietor, and have a business license from my state.

I do not have a "business" bank account. I just run two personal checking
accounts and a saving account, using one of the checking accounts for the
business, and the savings for the local sales tax I have to pay quarterly here
to the local borough.

Customers give me personal checks, or pay online with PayPal.

With Paypal, there was no way to do anything with a restricted endorsement
so I just withdraw from Paypal via check and apply the endorsement to that.

Running my business costs a reasonable amount of money (expenses), which are
to be deducted from the total (gross) amount.

The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't
able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.

This would be things like having to do an electronic transfer to my bank,
or making purchases direct from my PayPal debit card. This is a much smaller
amount than the lawful money amount.

The goal is obviously to be completely honest in all of my dealings, so on my return
I declare all of my expenses, which is what runs me into the red.

Maybe I'm missing something very simple here, but I need to figure out how to
do this accounting under this system.

If I only report expenses that I paid with Fed notes, then it will appear deceiving,
as my business would have obviously had more expenses than that.

So my question is how are you guys writing this up?

Thanks.

Axe do you realize that the CESTUI QUE VIE TRUST known as LEGAL M. NAME [w/SSN] is just that - A Trust. Now, that Sole Proprietorship as you call it gets its standing from CQVT - I mean you did go down to a Trust Asset Registry - Register of Deeds or County Clerk and Recorder - and Record a DBA, yes? So the TAXPAYER - FIRST MIDDLE LAST [CQVT] is the Trust you mention. How you fish out of that boat is your business.

Certainly when you sign on behalf of the BUSINESS ENTITY you sign in Capacity, right? Why would you not make a demand for lawful money for EVERYTHING that is done in the NAME of the Business Entity?

It's like Bon Jovi says "It's all the same, only the names have changed"....

The question remains is the Person a US Person or not? Is it an LLC, Corp [C or S], Trust, what is it? Are you in capacity as Manager, Vice President, President or Trustee or Agent? Why does Capacity matter? It does not? Except to say that certain liabilities can be shielded by Persons.

Amend the ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION - that can be done at ANYTIME. I might add "It is the express will and intent of the officers, agents, trustees, managers, and/or administrators to handle Lawful Money per Title 12 U.S.C. Section 411 as shown herein with the express written demand for lawful money per 12USC411."

The signature card at the banking institution can be updated or close the account and open a new one. Every instrument handled even for the most mundane of reasons should bear the stamp "demand is made for Lawful Money per 12USC411."

Why because every piece of mail or other instrument has a commercial value. Maybe not now, but I can guarantee if the company is sued then those instruments might be used to find a value.

In the past, I have held offices of Agent, Manager, President and Trustee for many different Persons.

What is your express intent? Make it known so that the INTERNAL book-keeper does not have to read your mind. INTERNAL that is to the United States - IRS and Dept. of Revenue (DOR). You say DOR? That's right. While the STATE has its own Domestic Sovereignty it is Dependent to the UNITED STATES.

I mean, come on Axe, who gave Standing to the Sole Prop? Did you? NO! You executed the relationship as authorized USER in Cestui Que Vie Trust relationship. Corporation, LLC or Trust [C or S w/TIN or EIN] are all Persons of the US. You think no, go and read the IRS code more carefully. In regard to US Persons (http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96395,00.html). That should open the eyes a bit.

Hello - It is ALL Trust Law.

Michael Joseph
04-21-11, 11:05 PM
Continuing.

If you have a web presence. You might put the words "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" at the bottom of the webpage. How about on the invoice; how about on the contract with Paypal or any other collection agency? On banking agreement - HELL every single piece of paper that you sign in or for CQVT or Sole Proprietor - which in reality is just the same thing - might bear the words "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" - A stamp comes in handy.

There is ALWAYS a work around. Have you thought about issuing a written letter on behalf of the Sole Proprietorship directly to the IRS? Have you recorded any other documents on the same Registry you have the DBA recorded?

Are you in love with Paypal? There are many other collection services - Intuit is a very neat one. You issue an electronic Invoice in PDF format with the embedded link - WRITTEN ON the invoice is "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" - therefore you have fulfilled the law.

The law says you must make a demand - what you get is not your concern - you made the demand or you did not make the demand - that is really simple to me.

motla68
04-21-11, 11:40 PM
Axe do you realize that the CESTUI QUE VIE TRUST known as LEGAL M. NAME [w/SSN] is just that - A Trust. Now, that Sole Proprietorship as you call it gets its standing from CQVT - I mean you did go down to a Trust Asset Registry - Register of Deeds or County Clerk and Recorder - and Record a DBA, yes? So the TAXPAYER - FIRST MIDDLE LAST [CQVT] is the Trust you mention. How you fish out of that boat is your business.

Certainly when you sign on behalf of the BUSINESS ENTITY you sign in Capacity, right? Why would you not make a demand for lawful money for EVERYTHING that is done in the NAME of the Business Entity?

It's like Bon Jovi says "It's all the same, only the names have changed"....

The question remains is the Person a US Person or not? Is it an LLC, Corp [C or S], Trust, what is it? Are you in capacity as Manager, Vice President, President or Trustee or Agent? Why does Capacity matter? It does not? Except to say that certain liabilities can be shielded by Persons.

Amend the ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION - that can be done at ANYTIME. I might add "It is the express will and intent of the officers, agents, trustees, managers, and/or administrators to handle Lawful Money per Title 12 U.S.C. Section 411 as shown herein with the express written demand for lawful money per 12USC411."

The signature card at the banking institution can be updated or close the account and open a new one. Every instrument handled even for the most mundane of reasons should bear the stamp "demand is made for Lawful Money per 12USC411."

Why because every piece of mail or other instrument has a commercial value. Maybe not now, but I can guarantee if the company is sued then those instruments might be used to find a value.

In the past, I have held offices of Agent, Manager, President and Trustee for many different Persons.

What is your express intent? Make it known so that the INTERNAL book-keeper does not have to read your mind. INTERNAL that is to the United States - IRS and Dept. of Revenue (DOR). You say DOR? That's right. While the STATE has its own Domestic Sovereignty it is Dependent to the UNITED STATES.

I mean, come on Axe, who gave Standing to the Sole Prop? Did you? NO! You executed the relationship as authorized USER in Cestui Que Vie Trust relationship. Corporation, LLC or Trust [C or S w/TIN or EIN] are all Persons of the US. You think no, go and read the IRS code more carefully. In regard to US Persons (http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96395,00.html). That should open the eyes a bit.

Hello - It is ALL Trust Law.

Whose trust law though, who says you have to use their trust? What was done before a Republic was established? The signs above buildings were very simple "BARBER" "BLACKSMITH, "SALOON",
if all accounting is kept in the treasury for everything is paid for and has another trusts seal on the currency and business's are just distributors of goods what do you need titles for?
bob: the plumber, mark: the barber, steve: the mechanic

I am in the conscience that Titles are nothing more then egos.

Axe
04-21-11, 11:49 PM
Thank you MJ for such a thoughtful response.

I was hoping you would contribute. I know I'm very lacking when it comes to trust law.

Hopefully you'll bear with me while I wrap my head around what you're saying here.

Okay... one thing at a time.

Cestui que (also cestuy que) (English pronunciation: /ˈsɛstwi ˈkeɪ/) is a shortened version of cestui a que use le feoffment fuit fait, literally, "The person for whose use the feoffment was made.

The cestui que use is the person for whose benefit the trust is created. The cestui que trust is the person entitled to an equitable, as opposed to a legal, estate. Thus, if land is granted to the use of A in trust for B, B is cestui que trust, and A trustee, or use. The term, principally owing to its cumbersome nature, has been virtually superseded in modern law by that of "beneficiary", and general law of trusts.


Axe do you realize that the CESTUI QUE VIE TRUST known as LEGAL M. NAME [w/SSN] is just that - A Trust. Now, that Sole Proprietorship as you call it gets its standing from CQVT - I mean you did go down to a Trust Asset Registry - Register of Deeds or County Clerk and Recorder - and Record a DBA, yes? So the TAXPAYER - FIRST MIDDLE LAST [CQVT] is the Trust you mention. How you fish out of that boat is your business.

I didn't have to register a DBA. I went to the state, did a name search, and got my business license as a Sole Proprietor.


Certainly when you sign on behalf of the BUSINESS ENTITY you sign in Capacity, right? Why would you not make a demand for lawful money for EVERYTHING that is done in the NAME of the Business Entity?

I sign as owner. So the demand for everything done in the name of the business is made on what exactly? The business license?



Amend the ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION - that can be done at ANYTIME. I might add "It is the express will and intent of the officers, agents, trustees, managers, and/or administrators to handle Lawful Money per Title 12 U.S.C. Section 411 as shown herein with the express written demand for lawful money per 12USC411."

I don't have Articles of Incorporation, I'm "classified" a Sole Proprietor. Articles of Incorporation are for corporations (c or subchapter s). LLC's have Articles of Organization, I don't have those either because I'm not an LLC. At the time I formed this business, I was just learning about all this stuff and was afraid of "contracting" with the government any more than I had to.

From what I'm hearing you say, I should form an LLC with that included in the Articles of Organization?


What is your express intent? Make it known so that the INTERNAL book-keeper does not have to read your mind. INTERNAL that is to the United States - IRS and Dept. of Revenue (DOR). You say DOR? That's right. While the STATE has its own Domestic Sovereignty it is Dependent to the UNITED STATES.

Make it known through the "Articles", right? Because there is no such filing available for Sole Proprietors that I know of, though I certainly don't know it all. I have had other businesses, and corporations (sub s) but I've never cared about anything other than staying solvent.


You executed the relationship as authorized USER in Cestui Que Vie Trust relationship. Corporation, LLC or Trust [C or S w/TIN or EIN] are all Persons of the US. You think no, go and read the IRS code more carefully. In regard to US Persons. That should open the eyes a bit.

No, I understand that.


If you have a web presence. You might put the words "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" at the bottom of the webpage. How about on the invoice; how about on the contract with Paypal or any other collection agency? On banking agreement - HELL every single piece of paper that you sign in or for CQVT or Sole Proprietor - which in reality is just the same thing - might bear the words "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411" - A stamp comes in handy.

I do have a web presence, a lot of them. That is something I had not thought of. I need to get that done right away.



A stamp comes in handy.

lol.... I have 2 stamps, one for FRNs and one for checks.

Thanks.

Axe
04-21-11, 11:55 PM
Whose trust law though, who says you have to use their trust? What was done before a Republic was established? The signs above buildings were very simple "BARBER" "BLACKSMITH, "SALOON",
if all accounting is kept in the treasury for everything is paid for and has another trusts seal on the currency and business's are just distributors of goods what do you need titles for?
bob: the plumber, mark: the barber, steve: the mechanic

I am in the conscience that Titles are nothing more then egos.

Thanks for contributing motla.

Who says you have to use their trusts? I think they do. They say you need his and that, and they have the guns and the rooms with bars, so...

I'd be happy to hear how you would do business differently.

If you can show me a way that doesn't involve them that ends with me still free and in business, then I'd love to do it.

Thanks.

David Merrill
04-22-11, 12:43 AM
I need some input here from any suitors that run their own businesses.

Hopefully you will sacrifice a little bit of your time and charitably contribute
to this thread.

I've been redeeming lawful money for over 2 years, and have copies (front and back)
of all checks that I've done this to.

I'm a sole proprietor, and have a business license from my state.

I do not have a "business" bank account. I just run two personal checking
accounts and a saving account, using one of the checking accounts for the
business, and the savings for the local sales tax I have to pay quarterly here
to the local borough.

Customers give me personal checks, or pay online with PayPal.

With Paypal, there was no way to do anything with a restricted endorsement
so I just withdraw from Paypal via check and apply the endorsement to that.

Running my business costs a reasonable amount of money (expenses), which are
to be deducted from the total (gross) amount.

The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't
able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.

This would be things like having to do an electronic transfer to my bank,
or making purchases direct from my PayPal debit card. This is a much smaller
amount than the lawful money amount.

The goal is obviously to be completely honest in all of my dealings, so on my return
I declare all of my expenses, which is what runs me into the red.

Maybe I'm missing something very simple here, but I need to figure out how to
do this accounting under this system.

If I only report expenses that I paid with Fed notes, then it will appear deceiving,
as my business would have obviously had more expenses than that.

So my question is how are you guys writing this up?

Thanks.


I tried to follow all that and well...

The question is how much withholdings are you paying? Your accounting should not be any different than normal. You have been redeeming lawful money so you have no taxable income - that is Zero. Therefore there is an amount of withholdings you have been paying in for state and federal income tax. That amount will automatically subtract from Zero and be your Refund.

Possibly you are not paying any Withholdings. Then you don't have to File because you have no taxable income. However it is turning up wise to file, include evidence you Demanded lawful money. This keeps the IRS agent from assessing you on the hearsay of others, like your clients/employers/bosses.


Regards,

David Merrill.

motla68
04-22-11, 12:56 AM
Thanks for contributing motla.

Who says you have to use their trusts? I think they do. They say you need his and that, and they have the guns and the rooms with bars, so...

I'd be happy to hear how you would do business differently.

If you can show me a way that doesn't involve them that ends with me still free and in business, then I'd love to do it.

Thanks.

Not sure if you seen many of my postings that elude to this, but take this for consideration. There is a trust survey, you want to use that trust survey to profit from with that Trusts currency, you need a license for that.

Now lets say your momma calls you earl and that you want to do business but need to use instruments of that trust in order to do it, we will " call " it earl : the powerwasher, you go out an buy a powerwasher and start getting some clients, you deposit that powerwasher into the treasury for the benefit of all, eventually you earn enough money to buy a backup powerwasher in case the first one fails, you continue to do the same and deposit the receipt for that into the treasury for the benefit of all. Your family grows, you buy a bigger house, and a mini van, all receipts or registrations get deposited into the trust. Everything you do is for the glory of your creator, so now in a legal sense you do not own anything but have possession and use of all things.
Then some rookie city collector [[ From the trust ]]seen all that you have use of and assumes you have legal claim on it, so he gives you a fine. How are they going to collect when you do not own anything? not even the money in your pocket because it has the seal and signatures of the Trust on it. The only way they can collect is by charging themselves, when you give them notice to these facts what do you think is going to happen to that fine?

See here in North Carolina, the general assembly of that state created all the charters for counties and cities, that city collector indirectly is even paid by the state. Any of this making sense now?

Raleigh City Charter: Article II
Sec. 2.14 - EXPRESS POWERS ENUMERATED.

In addition to the powers now or hereafter granted to municipalities under the general laws of the State of North Carolina, the City of Raleigh shall have the following expressed powers hereby granted to it:

(1)

Payment of legal indebtedness.

To provide for the payment of any existing legal indebtedness of the City of Raleigh and of any binding legal obligation that may from time to time be made by the City, and to appropriate funds for that purpose. <-- who do they trust, who are then under? Look above

(2)

Adopt ordinances, etc., for general welfare.

To make and adopt and provide for the execution thereof of such ordinances, resolutions, motions, rules and regulations as the City Council may consider necessary or expedient for maintaining and promoting peace, health, comfort, convenience, good order, better government and general welfare of the inhabitants of the City as are not inconsistent with this act and the constitution and the laws of the State of North Carolina.

Michael Joseph
04-22-11, 01:31 AM
I will boil it down and make it extremely simple. If the State gave issue by its laws or action to the Business, then the Business is Cestui Que Trust. You, sign things for that business.

Everything you sign for that business might have the word groupings "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411". It is all up to you, as Operator or Trafficker or Driver.

The rest is just obfuscation and leads to confusion and gives a lot of lawyers and CPA's and book-keepers jobs.

David Merrill
04-22-11, 02:08 AM
I will boil it down and make it extremely simple. If the State gave issue by its laws or action to the Business, then the Business is Cestui Que Trust. You, sign things for that business.

Everything you sign for that business might have the word groupings "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411". It is all up to you, as Operator or Trafficker or Driver.

The rest is just obfuscation and leads to confusion and gives a lot of lawyers and CPA's and book-keepers jobs.


Don't get crosswise with the City Sales Tax.

Axe
04-22-11, 02:20 AM
The question is how much withholdings are you paying?

There are no withholdings, I have to pay at the end of the year or quarterly.


Possibly you are not paying any Withholdings. Then you don't have to File because you have no taxable income. However it is turning up wise to file, include evidence you Demanded lawful money. This keeps the IRS agent from assessing you on the hearsay of others, like your clients/employers/bosses.

Yes, that's what I'm asking. I have "mostly" redeemed lawful money, but not all the time. I have been caught here and there where I had to do an electronic transfer and was unable to get the demand. I do not have the demand on my sig card at the credit union where I handle my affairs. I put the demand on the checks as they come in. Yes, I need to get that changed but it's not changed for 2010.

So I have some FRN liability.

So your saying that if you ONLY use lawful money then you shouldn't even file?

And if you do file, as a business, you have to list expenses in order to determine net profit.

If you list expenses with no taxable income, then you have a loss, and they want to send you
a check, at least at first. Do it for more than a couple years and they'll audit you.

If you are a business that is a corp or an LLC, then you have to get an EIN (employee id number)
from the IRS so they can send you your quarterly declaration forms.

So what, you have an LLC, you don't make any money but have expenses?

Or tell them you're not in business, and lie?

I just want to get my head around this. I appreciate everyone coming in on this to give me
a hand figuring this out. You're really making it all sound very simple, but the reality is different
when you're filling out the return line by line.

I would really like to know if anyone here is actually running a business, and filing in this manner.

Axe
04-22-11, 02:30 AM
I will boil it down and make it extremely simple. If the State gave issue by its laws or action to the Business, then the Business is Cestui Que Trust. You, sign things for that business.

Everything you sign for that business might have the word groupings "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411". It is all up to you, as Operator or Trafficker or Driver.

The rest is just obfuscation and leads to confusion and gives a lot of lawyers and CPA's and book-keepers jobs.

Thanks MJ. Sorry for being "slow".

David Merrill
04-22-11, 02:32 AM
The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.

I think it is finally starting to sink in. We must be extraordinarily frustrating - so slow.

Now I get it. This is about reconciling your books with a Zero Return - you need to calculate your books accurately to calculate the City Sales Tax.


Processing...

The presumption is that the City Tax Assessor is in coordinated intel with Federal and State.

The Federal is the only assessment that matters. The State assessment is based in Federal.

Figure the City assessment accurately according to tradition because you are paying for the municipal commercial protection district - METRO organization. It has nothing to do with redeeming lawful money. The police and protection coverture are paid for by a percentage of your profits. It is a different priesthood. It operates within lawful money, in your case while the next shop over operates without lawful money - the elastic currency of the Fed. The tradition is the same.



Regards,

David Merrill.

Axe
04-22-11, 02:44 AM
I think it is finally starting to sink in. We must be extraordinarily frustrating - so slow.

Now I get it. This is about reconciling your books with a Zero Return - you need to calculate your books accurately to calculate the City Sales Tax.

Well that too. But there's still the matter of being "self employed" on the federal tax
return, having expenses, but no profit... ever.

How does that fly long term?

David Merrill
04-22-11, 03:20 AM
Well that too. But there's still the matter of being "self employed" on the federal tax
return, having expenses, but no profit... ever.

How does that fly long term?

Only report the taxable income - which is likely less than the threshold amount (what? Is it still $6K?). So you would only report that in the event you want your withholdings back, or you want to be heard over the hearsay of clients/customers/bosses.


P.S. Possibly you want to be heard in accord with spot checks by City Tax Assessors and with your bank's books.

Mark Christopher
04-22-11, 01:03 PM
Figure the City assessment accurately according to tradition because you are paying for the municipal commercial protection district - METRO organization. It has nothing to do with redeeming lawful money. The police and protection coverture are paid for by a percentage of your profits. It is a different priesthood. It operates within lawful money, in your case while the next shop over operates without lawful money - the elastic currency of the Fed. The tradition is the same.

Axe, don't mean to hijack but David brought up a good point where I find myself a little unsure of the operation. METRO org operates within lawful money? Does that include issues of property tax on real estate? I think so. The township where I live claims that property taxes pays for school, fire and police. I thought it was the purchasing of property with FRN's that allowed the local's to charge a property tax as it extends the lien the whole way down to the local govt. David can you expand on that a little how it operates within lawful money before I gum up the works with alot of cross talk?

Thank you
MC

David Merrill
04-22-11, 02:35 PM
I think the privacy issue is making this difficult. I am approaching this as the presumption the business is a downtown storefront. My experience matches it up to a Pharmacopia on Boulder and Tejon a few years ago. The owner got into an argument with a couple city tax assessors whether vitamins are food and it went downhill from there. He is out of business.

I find the whole banishment business with Motla68 wonderful, almost like I want to take credit for calculating the whole episode ahead of time. The fellow is doing some amazing breakthrough with redemption of lawful money on municipal charge coupons - Tickets - but I am referring to his inspiration regarding that old Sheriff Agreement that he put forward back when he first registered - Say Goodbye to Property Taxes?

Regardless of the exact scenario on this thread - the business itself - I am addressing what The Problem is according to the opening post. Not running a similar business, I have been missing something in my mental models; the fact that a Zero Return does not reflect accurate bookkeeping practices for other purposes. I would not recommend that one keep two sets of books - cooking the books!

So I am now integrating the untried practice (except with Motla68 but he seemed to think it a perpetual agreement even though the fee was calculated for only one year) of picking the menu items you want for your downtown storefront - fire and police protection; communications 911 service and maybe a couple others like Chamber of Commerce underwriting, Sheriff's Business Association etc. - and figuring up your personal Mill Tax, per capita from last year's CAFR. Then you collect and publish your receipt for that donation and renew it annually and substitute that receipt for protection traditionally covered by city sales taxes done by a percentage of profits - including protection from harassing City Tax Assessors!!


Interesting though - this website is a great probe.


Regards,

David Merrill.

motla68
04-22-11, 05:01 PM
I think the privacy issue is making this difficult. I am approaching this as the presumption the business is a downtown storefront. My experience matches it up to a Pharmacopia on Boulder and Tejon a few years ago. The owner got into an argument with a couple city tax assessors whether vitamins are food and it went downhill from there. He is out of business.

I find the whole banishment business with Motla68 wonderful, almost like I want to take credit for calculating the whole episode ahead of time. The fellow is doing some amazing breakthrough with redemption of lawful money on municipal charge coupons - Tickets - but I am referring to his inspiration regarding that old Sheriff Agreement that he put forward back when he first registered - Say Goodbye to Property Taxes?

Regardless of the exact scenario on this thread - the business itself - I am addressing what The Problem is according to the opening post. Not running a similar business, I have been missing something in my mental models; the fact that a Zero Return does not reflect accurate bookkeeping practices for other purposes. I would not recommend that one keep two sets of books - cooking the books!

So I am now integrating the untried practice (except with Motla68 but he seemed to think it a perpetual agreement even though the fee was calculated for only one year) of picking the menu items you want for your downtown storefront - fire and police protection; communications 911 service and maybe a couple others like Chamber of Commerce underwriting, Sheriff's Business Association etc. - and figuring up your personal Mill Tax, per capita from last year's CAFR. Then you collect and publish your receipt for that donation and renew it annually and substitute that receipt for protection traditionally covered by city sales taxes done by a percentage of profits - including protection from harassing City Tax Assessors!!


Interesting though - this website is a great probe.


Regards,

David Merrill.

Aside from the obvious Manifestation in the second paragraph, the sheriff agreement created in 2004 was never used, it is put away and never used especially after development of CS in 2009 referencing the indemnification it was determined it would never be needed. WHEN ALL CRIMES ARE COMMERCIAL
• According to 27 CFR 72.11, burglary; counterfeiting; forgery; kidnapping; larceny; robbery; illegal sale or possession of weapons; prostitution; extortion; swindling; and many other things, like simple addiction to drugs or marihuana use.
Are considered and defined as “Commercial Crimes” where the charge is converted to an object for “commercial use” in which to create bonds to hold you as surety when you make claims on the Birth Name or any other name they create.. aka John Doe. Now for someone who knows who they are being that the currency is property of the state and the names they created for themselves are property of the state, then what? I have seen many articles written up where according to the late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, 100% of the people that are in Federal or State Penitentiaries are there VOLUNTARILY! Also there is surveys and articles that I have seen that where United States has the highest population of people in prison then any other country. People need to question the source of authority of all these things including the lower charters setup, whether it comes from color of law or some lawful agreement written, verbal or otherwise.
Indemnification is a powerful tool when used correctly,

http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?242-Suitors-and-indemnification-in-the-early-Republic&p=2109&viewfull=1#post2109

stoneFree
04-22-11, 05:58 PM
Axe, my situation is probably similar to yours. I'm not an employee, but independent, making money trading/laboring. I don't (nor does my trust) have an EIN or a business license. I redeem checks/payments in lawful money and do not consider it "income" under the Revenue Acts. Most of the entities doing the paying do not file Form 1099 against the SSN (issued for me and/or my trust), therefore there is no IRS presumption that these payments are, in fact, income. I don't pay in and nothing is withheld. Therefore I do not file 1040s as there is no need or requirement.

I suspect you may have a virtual storefront which the banksters are hopeful to tap into with legislation like this authorizing a new 1099-K for Merchant Card and Third-Party Payments (PayPal):
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/y210/m03/abu0258/s03
I'm not sure if this even became law but, I think if examined closely, you'd discover it would not apply to those outside the Federal Reserve system.

Axe
04-22-11, 10:14 PM
Axe, my situation is probably similar to yours. I'm not an employee, but independent, making money trading/laboring. I don't (nor does my trust) have an EIN or a business license. I redeem checks/payments in lawful money and do not consider it "income" under the Revenue Acts. Most of the entities doing the paying do not file Form 1099 against the SSN (issued for me and/or my trust), therefore there is no IRS presumption that these payments are, in fact, income. I don't pay in and nothing is withheld. Therefore I do not file 1040s as there is no need or requirement.

I suspect you may have a virtual storefront which the banksters are hopeful to tap into with legislation like this authorizing a new 1099-K for Merchant Card and Third-Party Payments (PayPal):
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/y210/m03/abu0258/s03
I'm not sure if this even became law but, I think if examined closely, you'd discover it would not apply to those outside the Federal Reserve system.

Thank you for contributing Stone. Nice to know there are others in my boat :-)

I have multiple web properties that are unrelated to my brick and mortar business,
but I have a brick and mortar business also.

I'm aware of the 1099-k, Paypal had a big banner up the last half of last year
letting everyone know that starting in 2011 they will be reporting all accounts
that do over a certain amount of sales or withdraws in a year.

My quandary there is I don;t know how to go about applying my RE (restricted endorsement)
Everything is created electronically, so I may have problems there.

Axe
04-22-11, 10:16 PM
Axe, don't mean to hijack but David brought up a good point where I find myself a little unsure of the operation. METRO org operates within lawful money? Does that include issues of property tax on real estate? I think so. The township where I live claims that property taxes pays for school, fire and police. I thought it was the purchasing of property with FRN's that allowed the local's to charge a property tax as it extends the lien the whole way down to the local govt. David can you expand on that a little how it operates within lawful money before I gum up the works with alot of cross talk?

Thank you
MC

No Worries. I'm happy to host discussion on anything to do with business ownership, local taxes,
and the like as it is all highly relevant to my situation as well.

David Merrill
04-23-11, 01:19 AM
Thank you for contributing Stone. Nice to know there are others in my boat :-)

I have multiple web properties that are unrelated to my brick and mortar business,
but I have a brick and mortar business also.

I'm aware of the 1099-k, Paypal had a big banner up the last half of last year
letting everyone know that starting in 2011 they will be reporting all accounts
that do over a certain amount of sales or withdraws in a year.

My quandary there is I don;t know how to go about applying my RE (restricted endorsement)
Everything is created electronically, so I may have problems there.

It is like any Zero Return - you are only to report Taxable Income and it depends entirely upon your right to be heard, and the law. That last part is why Pete HENDRICKSON is in prison. He figured that could read:



It is like any Zero Return - you are only to report Taxable Income and it depends entirely upon your right to be heard, and the traditional patriot mythology - private but logical interpretations of the IR Code.

What I am saying is that the Reports from clients and PayPal are not heard when you send in a signed 1040 Form. They become Hearsay, compared to your signed testimony.

An example is this NY State assessment:

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/3503/staterefund125adjustmen.jpg

Hescotoolz
07-20-11, 01:49 AM
David I have listened to your vids, I'm extremely excited to get this going. I went to my bank today that I have a business account with and wanted to change my ID signature card they said I couldn't put anything more on that signature card other than my name? They even called to verify. How do I even get this account under lawful money if they won't let me put it on my signature card. Thanks for Anyones help right now, I need to get out of this mess. Thx

doug-again
04-09-12, 05:46 AM
My quandary there is I don;t know how to go about applying my RE (restricted endorsement)
Everything is created electronically, so I may have problems there.For a fee, paypal will send you a paper check. You may then apply your RE to that.

David Merrill
04-09-12, 09:39 AM
David I have listened to your vids, I'm extremely excited to get this going. I went to my bank today that I have a business account with and wanted to change my ID signature card they said I couldn't put anything more on that signature card other than my name? They even called to verify. How do I even get this account under lawful money if they won't let me put it on my signature card. Thanks for Anyones help right now, I need to get out of this mess. Thx

Whoops! This looks like I let that one slip by.

This is quite simply a case of allowing the bank to be in charge rather than forming a business relationship. If your bank sees you forming a mutually beneficial relationship with a competitor bank that will respect your right to redeem lawful money they will likely rethink your blanket non-endorsement (restricted endorsement).

Axe
04-09-12, 10:24 AM
Doug,

Yeah, that's what I do and have been doing for 3 years, I guess I would feel better now that PayPal is reporting to have my RE on that account.


It is like any Zero Return - you are only to report Taxable Income and it depends entirely upon your right to be heard, and the law. That last part is why Pete HENDRICKSON is in prison. He figured that could read:

What I am saying is that the Reports from clients and PayPal are not heard when you send in a signed 1040 Form. They become Hearsay, compared to your signed testimony.


David, Thanks for contributing... I'm missing how that image you posted is relevant to your quote above. That looks like a zero return, which I don't have. I have a fair amount of FRN liability, about 1/3 of the gross.

It seems as though I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself.

I'm in business. I do have a storefront, so it's obvious I'm in business.

I do pay the local tax. The State has no tax.

I have to file a federal return. I do not have any withholdings, I pay (if I owe)
when I file.

Say I have 100K gross. 30K is non-restricted endorsed FRN. The rest has been
lawful money through my restricted endorsements.

Say the cost of doing business is 45K. Leaving a surplus of 65K.

My local borough tax is quarterly, which I have to pay on the gross every quarter.

What I'm getting down to here is this;

How is this written up on the return? There are places for the gross, and the net,
but there is no place for "how much was in lawful money".

If I write down the numbers as they are, they are going to say that I owe them taxes
on 65K which comes out to about 15-20K.

But what I'm telling them is that I don't owe them anything because I'm only liable for
30K, which after tax credits and cost of doing business is nothing owed.

David Merrill
04-09-12, 01:11 PM
Doug,

Yeah, that's what I do and have been doing for 3 years, I guess I would feel better now that PayPal is reporting to have my RE on that account.



David, Thanks for contributing... I'm missing how that image you posted is relevant to your quote above. That looks like a zero return, which I don't have. I have a fair amount of FRN liability, about 1/3 of the gross.

It seems as though I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself.

I'm in business. I do have a storefront, so it's obvious I'm in business.

I do pay the local tax. The State has no tax.

I have to file a federal return. I do not have any withholdings, I pay (if I owe)
when I file.

Say I have 100K gross. 30K is non-restricted endorsed FRN. The rest has been
lawful money through my restricted endorsements.

Say the cost of doing business is 45K. Leaving a surplus of 65K.

My local borough tax is quarterly, which I have to pay on the gross every quarter.

What I'm getting down to here is this;

How is this written up on the return? There are places for the gross, and the net,
but there is no place for "how much was in lawful money".

If I write down the numbers as they are, they are going to say that I owe them taxes
on 65K which comes out to about 15-20K.

But what I'm telling them is that I don't owe them anything because I'm only liable for
30K, which after tax credits and cost of doing business is nothing owed.

Please link the Form you propose to use and we can examine that specifically.

IRS Forms (http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html).

Meanwhile I suggest you order a stamp (http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Quality.Rubber.Stamps.2.719-635-0943).



http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6742/redeemedbills.jpg

Unknown
04-14-12, 04:56 PM
Axe do you realize that the CESTUI QUE VIE TRUST known as LEGAL M. NAME [w/SSN] is just that - A Trust. Now, that Sole Proprietorship as you call it gets its standing from CQVT - I mean you did go down to a Trust Asset Registry - Register of Deeds or County Clerk and Recorder - and Record a DBA, yes? So the TAXPAYER - FIRST MIDDLE LAST [CQVT] is the Trust you mention. How you fish out of that boat is your business.

Certainly when you sign on behalf of the BUSINESS ENTITY you sign in Capacity, right? Why would you not make a demand for lawful money for EVERYTHING that is done in the NAME of the Business Entity?

It's like Bon Jovi says "It's all the same, only the names have changed"....

The question remains is the Person a US Person or not? Is it an LLC, Corp [C or S], Trust, what is it? Are you in capacity as Manager, Vice President, President or Trustee or Agent? Why does Capacity matter? It does not? Except to say that certain liabilities can be shielded by Persons.

Amend the ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION - that can be done at ANYTIME. I might add "It is the express will and intent of the officers, agents, trustees, managers, and/or administrators to handle Lawful Money per Title 12 U.S.C. Section 411 as shown herein with the express written demand for lawful money per 12USC411."

The signature card at the banking institution can be updated or close the account and open a new one. Every instrument handled even for the most mundane of reasons should bear the stamp "demand is made for Lawful Money per 12USC411."

Why because every piece of mail or other instrument has a commercial value. Maybe not now, but I can guarantee if the company is sued then those instruments might be used to find a value.

In the past, I have held offices of Agent, Manager, President and Trustee for many different Persons.

What is your express intent? Make it known so that the INTERNAL book-keeper does not have to read your mind. INTERNAL that is to the United States - IRS and Dept. of Revenue (DOR). You say DOR? That's right. While the STATE has its own Domestic Sovereignty it is Dependent to the UNITED STATES.

I mean, come on Axe, who gave Standing to the Sole Prop? Did you? NO! You executed the relationship as authorized USER in Cestui Que Vie Trust relationship. Corporation, LLC or Trust [C or S w/TIN or EIN] are all Persons of the US. You think no, go and read the IRS code more carefully. In regard to US Persons (http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96395,00.html). That should open the eyes a bit.

Hello - It is ALL Trust Law.

Are you suggesting that people who want to open up a business aren't actually required to get a license, permit, etc.?

martin earl
04-14-12, 11:05 PM
Certainly, people are not required to get a license, permit ect to do anything.

Persons are required to.

By the way, you cannot be a people without redeeming lawful money.

My current opinion only and not legal advise.

Jmi52
06-01-12, 03:04 PM
Hello All,
I am a brand new member of the suitor club so I apologize in advance...
I have been following this site along with a few others just trying to grasp hold of the hold idea of redeeming lawful money. I get it, I do. I've ordered my stamp and I plan on implementing this remedy on everything I do.
The long and short of it is I am a 30 y.o business owner who is just getting started. I purchased a mobile food unit in October and we are set to launch in about a month or so. I presume most all of our sales will be cash with a few exceptions where customers may utilize Square-Up https://squareup.com/...payment from a smartphone.
What are the definitive steps someone like myself would need to do in order to rid myself of the IRS in all my business dealings. I have no accounting or business background (the business aspect I'm leaving to my fiance). To be honest I am completely lost with the whole accounting aspect of it. Being a 30 year old female, when I explain what I am doing to my friends and collegues they are totally lost and more or less look at me like I have 10 heads. Yes, I am quite ahead of my time ;) But have no one to help me. We've filed our LLC and DBA with Pennsylvania. Being as though we created our LLC back in October and are not even up and running- thus no income- I have just been filing zeros on my quarterly statements.
Any suggestions or help or feedback would be most appreciated!

Treefarmer
06-03-12, 03:25 AM
Hello All,
I am a brand new member of the suitor club so I apologize in advance...
I have been following this site along with a few others just trying to grasp hold of the hold idea of redeeming lawful money. I get it, I do. I've ordered my stamp and I plan on implementing this remedy on everything I do.
The long and short of it is I am a 30 y.o business owner who is just getting started. I purchased a mobile food unit in October and we are set to launch in about a month or so. I presume most all of our sales will be cash with a few exceptions where customers may utilize Square-Up https://squareup.com/...payment from a smartphone.
What are the definitive steps someone like myself would need to do in order to rid myself of the IRS in all my business dealings. I have no accounting or business background (the business aspect I'm leaving to my fiance). To be honest I am completely lost with the whole accounting aspect of it. Being a 30 year old female, when I explain what I am doing to my friends and collegues they are totally lost and more or less look at me like I have 10 heads. Yes, I am quite ahead of my time ;) But have no one to help me. We've filed our LLC and DBA with Pennsylvania. Being as though we created our LLC back in October and are not even up and running- thus no income- I have just been filing zeros on my quarterly statements.
Any suggestions or help or feedback would be most appreciated!

Hello Jmi52, welcome to the club.

Trading goods and services for cash is a great thing in my experience, because with cash one does not have to beg a bank to give it utility, as one does with a check, at which point one may be considered to be engaged in a "trade or business (http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/Remedies/TradeOrBusinessScam.htm)" with the United States. That would be taxable.

You cannot expect to "rid" yourself of the IRS when you apply for a TIN and an LLC. That is akin to jumping in bed with the IRS.

DH and I once had an LLC and it proved to be a complete waste of time and resources for us. Our tax payments were always higher than our income (popular meaning of the word), after we paid all the bills.
Great way to go into dept.
We dissolved the LLC and went back to business as usual, dba XYZ CONSTRUCTION (DH is a carpenter), except we only accept lawful money for payments anymore.
This works much better for us.

We are not required to file 1040s anymore, because our numbers are too small, but we file 1040EZs anyways, for the EIC and other reasons.

Regards

David Merrill
06-03-12, 09:21 AM
Hello All,
I am a brand new member of the suitor club so I apologize in advance...
I have been following this site along with a few others just trying to grasp hold of the hold idea of redeeming lawful money. I get it, I do. I've ordered my stamp and I plan on implementing this remedy on everything I do.
The long and short of it is I am a 30 y.o business owner who is just getting started. I purchased a mobile food unit in October and we are set to launch in about a month or so. I presume most all of our sales will be cash with a few exceptions where customers may utilize Square-Up https://squareup.com/...payment from a smartphone.
What are the definitive steps someone like myself would need to do in order to rid myself of the IRS in all my business dealings. I have no accounting or business background (the business aspect I'm leaving to my fiance). To be honest I am completely lost with the whole accounting aspect of it. Being a 30 year old female, when I explain what I am doing to my friends and collegues they are totally lost and more or less look at me like I have 10 heads. Yes, I am quite ahead of my time ;) But have no one to help me. We've filed our LLC and DBA with Pennsylvania. Being as though we created our LLC back in October and are not even up and running- thus no income- I have just been filing zeros on my quarterly statements.
Any suggestions or help or feedback would be most appreciated!

Congratulations! Welcome to StSC too. It is wonderful to have you along.



Hello Jmi52, welcome to the club.

Trading goods and services for cash is a great thing in my experience, because with cash one does not have to beg a bank to give it utility, as one does with a check, at which point one may be considered to be engaged in a "trade or business (http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/Remedies/TradeOrBusinessScam.htm)" with the United States. That would be taxable.

You cannot expect to "rid" yourself of the IRS when you apply for a TIN and an LLC. That is akin to jumping in bed with the IRS.



DH and I once had an LLC and it proved to be a complete waste of time and resources for us. Our tax payments were always higher than our income (popular meaning of the word), after we paid all the bills.
Great way to go into dept.

We dissolved the LLC and went back to business as usual, dba XYZ CONSTRUCTION (DH is a carpenter), except we only accept lawful money for payments anymore.
This works much better for us.

We are not required to file 1040s anymore, because our numbers are too small, but we file 1040EZs anyways, for the EIC and other reasons.

Regards


I do not see how that will work for your business with fast food customers flashing their cell phones at your scanner to pay within a second's time while you crank out 90 Minutes of work for a full day's wages. That electronic edge is obviously built into your business plan.

The only method I can think of depends on:


They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...

So make your demand and then do whatever it takes to do business and thrive. There are some threads where I outline the process here. Search my posts please. The process is to get your evidence repository set up and notify the nearest Federal Reserve Bank. You serve this notice (https://www.box.com/s/f745faea4d6275b8006e) to your bank and that is done. You have this all done and in your evidence repository and get ten certified copies - that ten will last you 2.5 years; understand? You submit one as an attachment with every quarterly filing of $0 taxable income.

If the IRS gets nasty about it then you talk with them (get everything in writing though). If there is something wrong with redeeming lawful money then we are all interested in hearing about it. Especially me.



Regards,

David Merrill.

shikamaru
06-03-12, 04:41 PM
Hello Jmi52, welcome to the club.

Trading goods and services for cash is a great thing in my experience, because with cash one does not have to beg a bank to give it utility, as one does with a check, at which point one may be considered to be engaged in a "trade or business (http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/Remedies/TradeOrBusinessScam.htm)" with the United States. That would be taxable.

You cannot expect to "rid" yourself of the IRS when you apply for a TIN and an LLC. That is akin to jumping in bed with the IRS.

DH and I once had an LLC and it proved to be a complete waste of time and resources for us. Our tax payments were always higher than our income (popular meaning of the word), after we paid all the bills.
Great way to go into dept.
We dissolved the LLC and went back to business as usual, dba XYZ CONSTRUCTION (DH is a carpenter), except we only accept lawful money for payments anymore.
This works much better for us.

We are not required to file 1040s anymore, because our numbers are too small, but we file 1040EZs anyways, for the EIC and other reasons.

Regards

There is distinction between private business and public business.

Jmi52
06-03-12, 06:43 PM
You cannot expect to "rid" yourself of the IRS when you apply for a TIN and an LLC. That is akin to jumping in bed with the IRS.

DH and I once had an LLC and it proved to be a complete waste of time and resources for us. Our tax payments were always higher than our income (popular meaning of the word), after we paid all the bills.
Great way to go into dept.
We dissolved the LLC and went back to business as usual, dba XYZ CONSTRUCTION (DH is a carpenter), except we only accept lawful money for payments anymore.
This works much better for us.


Thank you for the kind words! So my question is, is a DBA, and by this I presume you mean operating a "business" under a ficticious name, able to be in existence without an LLC? I first filed our LLC "umbrella" and then did a fictitious name for our actual truck's operating name. So we are XXX, LLC dba XXX food truck.

Jmi52
06-03-12, 06:51 PM
I do not see how that will work for your business with fast food customers flashing their cell phones at your scanner to pay within a second's time while you crank out 90 Minutes of work for a full day's wages. That electronic edge is obviously built into your business plan.


Thank you David! As a truck operator, isnt a fast paying customer the best kind? Should we just go completely all cash only? I have been reading through your posts for some time now. Would I also sign our signature cards for the business at said bank "redeem lawful money pursuant..." the same as one would for a personal account? We also do catering so I presume we will be accepting deposit checks from our customers...

How about stamping each federal reserve note with the redemption verbiage at the end of our work day? Would that also be necessary?
Are there accountants who are privy to this information and process?

David Merrill
06-03-12, 11:58 PM
Thank you David! As a truck operator, isnt a fast paying customer the best kind? Should we just go completely all cash only? I have been reading through your posts for some time now. Would I also sign our signature cards for the business at said bank "redeem lawful money pursuant..." the same as one would for a personal account? We also do catering so I presume we will be accepting deposit checks from our customers...

How about stamping each federal reserve note with the redemption verbiage at the end of our work day? Would that also be necessary?
Are there accountants who are privy to this information and process?

Several suitors are accountants and even bankers.

There are combinations of forums for your notice and demand. I would say going cash only will be nowhere as prosperous as all three, cash, swiping plastic and flashing phones.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...

All you are in control of is making your demand. Something fascinating occured last week in my mind. Many of the suitors in the brain trust are excited about this too. - Especially the Christians.

I just got off the phone with a new suitor and she got it right away because she has been perplexed for decades about how to "Come out of Her" - She being the Harlot, City of Babylon in the Book of Revelation. Now ponder that the entire Federal Reserve System is a currency system of elastic currency - false balances.

A false balance is an abomination to the LORD but a just weight is His delight. Proverbs 11:1

Consider that Congress would not write a law to be ambiguous yet the left a pronoun in there I have been presuming to be Federal Reserve notes for They. All over the Internet I always write it in:

They [FRNs] shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...


Finally it hit me!

They are people.

Demand lawful money - be redeemed by the LORD through the Federal Reserve System. Better yet, be redeemed from the Federal Reserve System in thirty pieces of silver lawful money if you get my reference from Judas and Zechariah (http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2175/sprophecy.pdf). Remedy is between your ears. If you can explain it you have mastered the metaphysics. You have to do it to master it though. If you try studying it you will only get fleeting glimpses - see James 1:25 et al.



Regards,

David Merrill.

Treefarmer
06-04-12, 03:04 AM
There is distinction between private business and public business.

Sounds interesting.
Would you care to elaborate further please?

Treefarmer
06-04-12, 03:18 AM
Thank you for the kind words! So my question is, is a DBA, and by this I presume you mean operating a "business" under a ficticious name, able to be in existence without an LLC? I first filed our LLC "umbrella" and then did a fictitious name for our actual truck's operating name. So we are XXX, LLC dba XXX food truck.

When we dissolved the LLC, we went to the bank to close down the LLC business account. This is a small town, where everyone is known by first name, and the bank lady asked us why we wanted to close our business account. We told her that we had dissolved the LLC and she said there was no reason to close the account, just rename it, FIRST M LAST dba XYZ CONSTRUCTION.

We followed her advice and that's the way it's worked for us ever since. We never even filed any paperwork on the DBA, it only exists on the bank account.

I should add though that ever since the housing market crash of '08 we have not handled any large contract jobs and DH is semi retired. We are anachronisms of a bygone era, handling only lawful money cash and making oral contracts, with a hand shake only. We live in a rapidly shrinking world of no codes or building inspectors, perhaps the last place of its kind.

David Merrill
06-04-12, 11:19 AM
No doubt though, judging by the posts here - you are both redeemed of the LORD.



My posts are toward not hobbling a budding business venture and blessing it with true balances through making the demand clear. I believe it is the same model - redemption.

shikamaru
06-05-12, 10:57 PM
Sounds interesting.
Would you care to elaborate further please?

This is what I have learned from George Gordon and his broadcasts.

Private business does not involve government. Private business is just that ... private between the business and the customer.
Public business has a public interest involved and thus is subject to regulation by government.
Keywords there are public interest.

This also includes employment. There is no common law right to employment.
Employment is a state regulated franchise.

The downside of all of this is that private business is strict liability. Accepting the state franchise of incorporation and thus limited liability is an enticing benefit.

Chex
06-06-12, 01:29 PM
This is what I have learned from George Gordon and his broadcasts.

Private business does not involve government. Private business is just that ... private between the business and the customer.
Public business has a public interest involved and thus is subject to regulation by government.
Keywords there are public interest.

This also includes employment. There is no common law right to employment.
Employment is a state regulated franchise.

The downside of all of this is that private business is strict liability. Accepting the state franchise of incorporation and thus limited liability is an enticing benefit.

Wonder what "type" of Private business is just that ... Http (http://privycouncil.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/30_04_12_pcmtg1.pdf)

Treefarmer
06-06-12, 06:06 PM
This is what I have learned from George Gordon and his broadcasts.

Private business does not involve government. Private business is just that ... private between the business and the customer.
Public business has a public interest involved and thus is subject to regulation by government.
Keywords there are public interest.

This also includes employment. There is no common law right to employment.
Employment is a state regulated franchise.

The downside of all of this is that private business is strict liability. Accepting the state franchise of incorporation and thus limited liability is an enticing benefit.

Thank you shikamaru.

It would seem that ever since the people have been conned into having BCs, DLs, and SSNs, the privacy of private life and business has all but disappeared.

shikamaru
06-07-12, 11:00 PM
Thank you shikamaru.

It would seem that ever since the people have been conned into having BCs, DLs, and SSNs, the privacy of private life and business has all but disappeared.

That is correct. Most people live entirely in the public sphere (licenses, certificates, identification documents) and in commerce (bills, notes, checks, credits) with no idea or contemplation that there there is a sphere without the public and without government.

I found a nifty treatise supporting some of what I stated, but I'd have to go sifting.
That could be difficult being that I have over 170GB of materials.

shikamaru
06-08-12, 01:09 AM
Business, trade, and employment regulated by the police powers of the state

Source

http://books.google.com/books?id=4Qo9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA7&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2W3KcFu8AV_40Y1TJnU1K_aSSVPA&ci=41%2C497%2C848%2C654&edge=0

Employment is a contract or predicated upon a contract.
Incorporation is a grant from the state to a person (franchise).
A franchise is an exercise of a sovereign prerogative in the hands of a subject.

What this all implies is regulation by government due to a public interest existing therein.
We may consider this thought presumptive.

shikamaru
06-08-12, 01:14 AM
It seems seamen are of a different class.

http://books.google.com/books?id=4Qo9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA23&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2UEfPQwXSK5cjlOC7wwlQZDQBu5A&ci=45%2C703%2C848%2C489&edge=0
http://books.google.com/books?id=4Qo9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA23&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2UEfPQwXSK5cjlOC7wwlQZDQBu5A&ci=39%2C1192%2C851%2C88&edge=0
http://books.google.com/books?id=4Qo9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA24&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U0y5UIe1EbdQm8PXAL5I84qhDcU7Q&ci=95%2C157%2C867%2C536&edge=0

Perhaps we are all treated as seamen when it comes to (public) employment?

shikamaru
06-08-12, 02:37 AM
This will be found to be interesting:

The common law right to earn a living (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/article/Independent-Review/89147840.html)



Instead, Sutherland was "settling the case in terms that were as purely jural as an opinion could be." The New Deal's infringements on the right to earn a living "offended, deeply, the principles of lawfulness" (Arkes 1994, 82). Such arrangements offended the right of the individual to use her land, her property, or her talents as she saw fit. Far from being examples of judicial activism, cases such as Adkins, Yick Wo, or Lochner were instances in which the Court restrained legislative activism that abridged the right to pursue a lawful occupation--a right sanctified by at least seven hundred years of traditional protection.

To justify the extreme sorts of regulation that constituted the New Deal, it was necessary to overcome that tradition or to deny its existence. In 1937, in the famous "Switch in Time That Saved Nine," the Supreme Court reversed centuries of common law. Whereas courts had formerly presumed against laws infringing on common-law rights, including the right to earn a living, in United States v. Carolene Products the Court held that "regulatory legislation affecting ordinary commercial transactions is not to be pronounced unconstitutional unless in the light of the facts made known or generally assumed it is of such a character as to preclude the assumption that it rests upon some rational basis" (304 U.S. 144 [1937], at 152).

By this decision, the Court divided individual rights into "fundamental" rights and "economic" rights. Yet, as earlier generations had understood, the two cannot be separated. The "economic right" to operate a business had never been based only on economic justifications; rather, it was a form taken by the fundamental right of a person to provide for himself or his family. The spurious nature of the dichotomy in Carolene Products has been sufficiently demonstrated elsewhere (McCloskey 1962, 34-45; Pilon 1999; Siegan 1995), but it is remarkable how, after 1937, the history of the right to earn an honest living has been confused.

With the rise of legal positivism--originated by Roscoe Pound, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., Louis Brandeis, and others--the very existence of such a right came to be directly challenged. In McAuliffe v. New Bedford, Holmes wrote, "The petitioner may have a constitutional right to talk politics but he has no constitutional right to be a policeman" (155 Mass. 216 [1892], at 220) This declaration is strictly correct because the common law guarantees only the right to seek employment, not the right to a have particular job, but Holmes's dictum, as Justice William Douglas would later write, "[had] pernicious implications" (Barsky v. Bd. of Regents of the State of New York, 347 U.S. 442 [1954], at 472). Roscoe Pound went further than Holmes, though, insisting that "there never has been at common law any such freedom of contract as [cases such as Lochner or Butcher's Union] postulate." Pound argued that the individual had no right, "by contract, [to] impose substantial restraints upon his [own] liberty" because "[f]reedom to impose these restraints, in the hands of the weak and necessitous, defeats the very end of liberty" (1909, 470-72). In other words, the poor could not be trusted with the right to decide for themselves the number of hours they wished to work.



Kens argues. "Nowhere does the Constitution expressly guarantee a right to engage in a trade or profession" (1997, 117).


Engaging in a trade or profession affects a public interest.
Legislature can just as easily classify a given type of labor as 'a trade, profession, or occupation'.

shikamaru
06-08-12, 02:47 AM
Right to work (http://www.truthattack.org/jml/index.php/law-library/fundamental-rights)



Lee v. Delmar, 66 So.2d 252, 255 (Fla. 1953): restrictions on real estate salesman void:
“The right to work, earn a living and acquire and possess property from the fruits of one's labor is an inalienable right. There may be certain trades, professions or occupations so clothed with the public interest that they may be regulated by the Legislature in the public interest. When any business, occupation or profession is so clothed with the public interest, then the Legislature must provide the yardstick for such regulation.”

Employment ... public interest ... regulation ... taxation

Treefarmer
06-08-12, 03:08 AM
It seems seamen are of a different class.

http://books.google.com/books?id=4Qo9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA23&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2UEfPQwXSK5cjlOC7wwlQZDQBu5A&ci=45%2C703%2C848%2C489&edge=0
http://books.google.com/books?id=4Qo9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA23&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U2UEfPQwXSK5cjlOC7wwlQZDQBu5A&ci=39%2C1192%2C851%2C88&edge=0
http://books.google.com/books?id=4Qo9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA24&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U0y5UIe1EbdQm8PXAL5I84qhDcU7Q&ci=95%2C157%2C867%2C536&edge=0

Perhaps we are all treated as seamen when it comes to (public) employment?

To the extent that we are treated as persons, or vessels in the sea of admiralty, I think you have a valid point there.

Michael Joseph
06-08-12, 06:01 PM
and Moses stretched out his staff before him and called on the Name of God and the waters parted and they went over on dry ground. It is a matter of Faith and Trust.

For I go out in the ways and forage for my family in Husbandry to Assembly and then I return. For a man who will not take care of his family is worse than a heathen.

Isa_43:26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

plead = H8199
שׁפט
shaw-fat'
A primitive root; to judge, that is, pronounce sentence (for or against); by implication to vindicate or punish; by extension to govern; passively to litigate (literally or figuratively): - + avenge, X that condemn, contend, defend, execute (judgment), (be a) judge (-ment), X needs, plead, reason, rule.

----------------------

Consider the report at the End of the First Age and the Beginning of this Flesh Age - "Let US make man in OUR image". Is this not pleading together? Both the judge and defendant are in agreement. And what is TOTALLY amazing at least to me is that the Judge agreed to the same sentence -

In the image of God made he Him: Yehoshuah/Jesus is the Express Image of God : male and female made he them [mankind].

If you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. Therefore we have the appearance in this age as we did before. We remain in our image.

What Judge executes a sentence that he himself is unwilling to follow? Therefore the Judge is not above the Law. And is not immune.

Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.

A King cannot annul his word. For example see Herod [John]. There are numerous other examples - in Daniel and his three fellows.

shikamaru
06-09-12, 12:33 PM
Other keywords involved in this whole topic: occupy, use, public interest, regulation, police powers, licensing power, commerce, permit, administrative courts

These keywords are also associated with the term license as well ......

David Merrill
06-10-12, 02:00 PM
and Moses stretched out his staff before him and called on the Name of God and the waters parted and they went over on dry ground. It is a matter of Faith and Trust.

For I go out in the ways and forage for my family in Husbandry to Assembly and then I return. For a man who will not take care of his family is worse than a heathen.

Isa_43:26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

plead = H8199
שׁפט
shaw-fat'
A primitive root; to judge, that is, pronounce sentence (for or against); by implication to vindicate or punish; by extension to govern; passively to litigate (literally or figuratively): - + avenge, X that condemn, contend, defend, execute (judgment), (be a) judge (-ment), X needs, plead, reason, rule.

----------------------

Consider the report at the End of the First Age and the Beginning of this Flesh Age - "Let US make man in OUR image". Is this not pleading together? Both the judge and defendant are in agreement. And what is TOTALLY amazing at least to me is that the Judge agreed to the same sentence -

In the image of God made he Him: Yehoshuah/Jesus is the Express Image of God : male and female made he them [mankind].

If you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. Therefore we have the appearance in this age as we did before. We remain in our image.

What Judge executes a sentence that he himself is unwilling to follow? Therefore the Judge is not above the Law. And is not immune.

Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.

A King cannot annul his word. For example see Herod [John]. There are numerous other examples - in Daniel and his three fellows.


Those three verses - Exodus 14:19-21 are each 72 Hebrew letters (http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7585/72foldcommentary.jpg)in length. There arises the 72-Fold Name of God (http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_Sepher_Yesirah_cover.jpg).

The number 72 permeates reality and all life in the Fibonacci Sequence and pentagram. Primarily we think of quadrants and the solar year as 360 degrees so that when you divide that by 5 we get 72. The intersections of the pentagram are at 61.55% and that is the Fibonacci Sequence right there (1+2=3; 3+2=5; 5+3=8...).


Regards,

David Merrill.

Axe
07-03-12, 10:21 PM
Please link the Form you propose to use and we can examine that specifically.

IRS Forms (http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html).

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf

I already have 2 stamps, thanks.

Specifically, as I mentioned using the example of gross revenue
at 100K.

Assuming a tax liability of say 20K. (These were revenue that I was unable to
get my RE on, electronic transfers, direct deposits, etc)

All other monies were lawful money redeemed (80K) via RE (restricted endorsement)

My cost of doing business was 30K. (Space rent, utilities, advertising, etc.)

On the 1040

Line 12 - (-10K)

Line 22 - (-10K)

line 37 - (-10K)

Line 38- (-10K)

Line 40 - (11.6K) Standard Deduction

Line 41 - (-21.6K)

Line 42 - (22.2K) 6 Dependents

Schedule C:

Line 1b - (20K)

Line 1d - (20K)

Line 3 - (20K)

Line 5 - (20K)

Line 7 - (20K)

Lines 8 - 27 Business operating costs - (30K)

Line 28 - (30K)

Line 29 - (-10K)

Line 31 - (-10K)

Now here's the kicker. If you claim a loss for more than 3
years the IRS will consider your business a business no longer,
it a hobby.

So this is how redeeming lawful money looks on the actual tax return of
a Sole Proprietor.

The above is of course simplified. On top of that there are 1099K and 1099MISC
which are declared by PayPal and merchant accounts if you plan to actually be
solvent and take credit cards.

So in 2012 the IRS will also get a 1099K from my merchant processors showing
that remaining 80K, which is unaddressed at all in the above return.

Then, there is the local borough sales tax quarterly, which they expect to match
your fed return.

So if anyone can contribute to help make this process better I'd greatly appreciate it.

Axe
07-03-12, 10:24 PM
Sorry for my absence on this thread. Tax time is always very demanding, business and family-wise.

karl nathan
07-04-12, 12:26 AM
Given the hypothetical scenario you presented there appears to be several options to reconcile the accounting records of the business to the accounting records provided to the IRS.

The first would be to show the total gross receipts on Sch C line 1b. Then show a reduction in the amount of lawful money which was demanded on Sch C line 2 which includes 'any other adjustments.' There is a note in parentheses on that line to 'see instructions' but I have not been able to locate specific instructions for that line in the instructions. This option should allow the local borough to match/reconcile figures easier than the following option.

For the second option, the specific instructions on page C-4 (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040sc.pdf) in regard to Line 1b it states: 'If the total amounts that were reported in box 7 of Forms 1099-MISC are more than the total you are reporting on this line, attach a statement explaining the difference.' Therefore you could attach a short statement. However, this option would be more burdensome for the local borough to match figures. However, the local borough would be showing more receipts on their records vs the Sch C so they would be less likely to make a fuss compared to the opposite situation in which their receipts would be less than the Sch C.


Now here's the kicker. If you claim a loss for more than 3 years the IRS will consider your business a business no longer, it a hobby.

The IRS is supposed to follow this (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/183) when dealing with a potential hobby loss. But if a demand is made for lawful money should one worry about or even consider what a subject under the Internal Revenue Code has to deal with?

Axe
07-10-12, 08:00 PM
Thanks for that Karl.

So Sch C line 2 you would put the total amount of Lawful Money redeemed, and
annotate it how? Write it in on the line? USC 12 ss411?

Axe
07-12-12, 12:00 AM
I also found this today:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8ben.pdf

"use Form W-8BEN if they are claiming treaty benefits or are providing the form only to
claim they are a foreign person exempt from backup withholding."

This is the form you are supposed to file to PayPal if you are "foreign" and don't
provide your SSN. PP requires a foreign address verification.

From part 4:

Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined the information on this form and to the best of my knowledge and belief it is true, correct, and complete. I
further certify under penalties of perjury that:
1 I am the beneficial owner (or am authorized to sign for the beneficial owner) of all the income to which this form relates,
2 The beneficial owner is not a U.S. person,
3 The income to which this form relates is (a) not effectively connected with the conduct of a trade or business in the United States, (b) effectively connected but is
not subject to tax under an income tax treaty, or (c) the partner’s share of a partnership’s effectively connected income, and
4 For broker transactions or barter exchanges, the beneficial owner is an exempt foreign person as defined in the instructions.

Furthermore, I authorize this form to be provided to any withholding agent that has control, receipt, or custody of the income of which I am the beneficial owner or
any withholding agent that can disburse or make payments of the income of which I am the beneficial owner.

David Merrill
07-12-12, 12:42 AM
I wonder how specifying Colorado Republic would go over?

Chex
07-12-12, 01:24 PM
5 USC 104 - Sec. 104. Independent establishment (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/104)

Chapter 1 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Code/Title_5/Part_I/Chapter_1)

Axe
07-19-12, 12:10 AM
Given the hypothetical scenario you presented there appears to be several options to reconcile the accounting records of the business to the accounting records provided to the IRS.

The first would be to show the total gross receipts on Sch C line 1b. Then show a reduction in the amount of lawful money which was demanded on Sch C line 2 which includes 'any other adjustments.' There is a note in parentheses on that line to 'see instructions' but I have not been able to locate specific instructions for that line in the instructions. This option should allow the local borough to match/reconcile figures easier than the following option.

For the second option, the specific instructions on page C-4 in regard to Line 1b it states: 'If the total amounts that were reported in box 7 of Forms 1099-MISC are more than the total you are reporting on this line, attach a statement explaining the difference.' Therefore you could attach a short statement. However, this option would be more burdensome for the local borough to match figures. However, the local borough would be showing more receipts on their records vs the Sch C so they would be less likely to make a fuss compared to the opposite situation in which their receipts would be less than the Sch C.

The IRS is supposed to follow this when dealing with a potential hobby loss. But if a demand is made for lawful money should one worry about or even consider what a subject under the Internal Revenue Code has to deal with?

Any thoughts on the best way to sign the return?

True Name for LEGAL NAME, LEGAL NAME only, etc.

Thanks.

Axe
07-31-12, 08:59 PM
Nobody? It's easy to say True Name but you are contracting therefore placing yourself under jurisdiction.

David Merrill
08-01-12, 12:01 AM
Any thoughts on the best way to sign the return?

True Name for LEGAL NAME, LEGAL NAME only, etc.

Thanks.

I advise truthfully;


True Name dba First Middle LAST.

number88
04-15-15, 10:17 AM
I advise truthfully;


True Name dba First Middle LAST.

Hello,

long time student here and my first post. I've studied this site and all things lawful money related for 2 years and have been redeeming since last year. I opened up my own business last year and had opened the business account with my lawful money demand on the signature card to make sure all transactions from the beginning are all lawful money. I also had a notice and demand for lawful money documented notarized the bank account was open. I am highly appreciative of all the eye opening information, the more I studied the more it has sense to me.

In regards to SCHEDULE C FORM 1040, does anyone have a recommendation on how and where to note the total amount of lawful money redeemed under PART 1 Income?

Would I put the total amount redeemed in lawful money in Gross Receipts? Then create a supporting schedule for all checks and deposits with the lawful money demand on them (and including the signed signature card)?

I am just a bit confused on where to put lawful money amount for business. ANY help or clarifications is greatly appreciated. I also look forward to being more active in this forum!

lorne
05-29-15, 07:35 PM
Good stuff. I saw this invisible rope trick on tv https://youtu.be/2zbWMQXNkzc Two guys on either side of the road pretend to pull a rope; tug of war. Good enough to fool a motorist.

I realized it's like our money system, we pretend that Federal Reserve notes are real money. But it's an illusion. Seems the banking cartel's domination was based on secrecy and now the secret is out. You probably won't be successful as a nontaxpaying business owner until you realize ... it's not money, there is no rope!