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Amaz
04-23-11, 08:44 PM
Has anyone ever heard of a world citizenship passport?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Passport

David Merrill
04-23-11, 09:31 PM
Has anyone ever heard of a world citizenship passport?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Passport




http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3391/passportsanitized.jpg

David Merrill
04-26-11, 12:31 PM
Interestingly: http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/state-dept-wants-to-make-it-harder-to-get-a-passport/

martin earl
04-26-11, 01:09 PM
I looked into these, but instead, I got the united States passport. I did, however, read the instructions with the application.

The instructions and notices with the APP spell out if something on the app did not apply to me, to line them out and supply a written notice why.

So, I struck out many things on the app, including anything about "US Citizen", put "reported" on the Date of Birth and all that.

Also, with the Notices, I "Refused for Cause" several things (the parts about using the information for law enforcement, IRS, collections, etc etc. On the "no refund" part and NOTICED them the fees were being paid with redeemed lawful money and I would get a full refund should they refuse to supply a passport. I also gave a non-domestic address on the app with no zip code. And a separate C/O address for return mailing.

All "0"s where is asked for SSN.

I made copies of the application, the notices and returned the ones with my R4C with the app. I wrote a letter telling them I had no first hand information about the reported dates, places and other incidentals on the app and would not swear or affirm to any of them being true or factual.

All without prejudice, signed in true name.

I did this after reading another passport and seeing that nowhere did it say anything about a "US Citizen" (only citizen/national of the United States) and that the passport had an admonition from the Secretary of state to provide the bearer with "lawful protection and aid and not to delay", which I thought was okay with me.

I clearly singed their new passport "NOT FOR ID" "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED" "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" By: True Name.

I have Used it to travel out of the Nation without issue. One private security guy at an airport stated my added verbiage above my autograph "invalidated" the passport.

I simply responded "Hmmmm." with a puzzled look on my face. He handed it back to me and I got on the airplane, no other agents said a word about it.

A postal clerk asked me for ID to cash a postal money order. I told her I had a passport, she then asked for a Drivers License. I told her I was not driving and did not have one. I handed her the passport, she asked what the "Not for ID" meant, I told her "because I did not know where or when I was born." she said "Okay" and then cashed out the postal money order I had given her.

I do not have a scanner, or I would scan the app with my amendments to it.

David, have you traveled outside of the "country" with your world passport?

David Merrill
04-26-11, 02:15 PM
Thank you for the detailed explanation.

martin earl
04-26-11, 03:08 PM
Thank you for the detailed explanation.

You are welcome, David. I don't know that it did anything to apply in that way, but after careful consideration, I do think that border security is and was part of the original Republic and any "official" document I can get which states:

"The Secretary of the United States of America hereby requests all whom it may concern to permit the citizen/national named herein to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection."

Might be a good thing to have. After all, a port is legally defined as:

PORT. A place to which the officers of the customs are appropriated, and which include the privileges and guidance of all members and creeks which are allotted to them. 1 Chit. Com. Law, 726; Postlewaith's Com. Dict. h.t.; 1 Chit. Com. L. Index, h.t. According to Dalloz, a port is a place within land, protected against the waves and winds, and affording to vessels a place of safety. Diet. Supp. h.t. By the Roman law a port is defined to be locus, conclusus, quo importantur merces, et unde exportantur. Dig. 50,16, 59. See 7 N. S. 81. 2. A port differs from a haven, (q.v.) and includes something more. 1st. It is a place at which vessels may arrive and discharge, or take in their cargoes. 2. It comprehends a vale, city or borough, called in Latin caput corpus, for the reception of mariners and merchants, for securing the goods, and bringing them to market, and for victualling the ships. 3. It is impressed with its legal character by the civil authority. Hale de Portibus Mar. c. 2; 1 Harg. 46, 73; Bac. Ab. Prerogative, D 5; Com. Dig. Navigation, E; 4 Inst. 148; Callis on Sewers, 56; 2 Chit. Com. Law, 2; Dig. 60, 16, 59; Id. 43, 12, 1, 13; Id. 47, 10, 15, 7; Id. 39, 4, 15.

I think maybe, a "passport" when obtained properly (lawful money payment and factual reporting on the application) can be used to secure ones right to "pass" from admiralty/maritime/legal to the land.

The more I get into these subjects, the more I find "government" agents are willing and able to provide and fill their lawful roles/duties as protectors of rights when lawfully demanded by the people.

I remember in my earlier days of research, someone wrote "if you go into their admiralty courts and claim common law, you better have a passport".

A "pass-port" to get out of off their "docket" and back onto dry land should things go poorly?

...

Hbert997
04-26-11, 05:06 PM
I looked into these, but instead, I got the united States passport. I did, however, read the instructions with the application.

The instructions and notices with the APP spell out if something on the app did not apply to me, to line them out and supply a written notice why.

So, I struck out many things on the app, including anything about "US Citizen", put "reported" on the Date of Birth and all that.

Also, with the Notices, I "Refused for Cause" several things (the parts about using the information for law enforcement, IRS, collections, etc etc. On the "no refund" part and NOTICED them the fees were being paid with redeemed lawful money and I would get a full refund should they refuse to supply a passport. I also gave a non-domestic address on the app with no zip code. And a separate C/O address for return mailing.

All "0"s where is asked for SSN.

I made copies of the application, the notices and returned the ones with my R4C with the app. I wrote a letter telling them I had no first hand information about the reported dates, places and other incidentals on the app and would not swear or affirm to any of them being true or factual.

All without prejudice, signed in true name.

I did this after reading another passport and seeing that nowhere did it say anything about a "US Citizen" (only citizen/national of the United States) and that the passport had an admonition from the Secretary of state to provide the bearer with "lawful protection and aid and not to delay", which I thought was okay with me.

I clearly singed their new passport "NOT FOR ID" "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED" "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" By: True Name.

I have Used it to travel out of the Nation without issue. One private security guy at an airport stated my added verbiage above my autograph "invalidated" the passport.

I simply responded "Hmmmm." with a puzzled look on my face. He handed it back to me and I got on the airplane, no other agents said a word about it.

A postal clerk asked me for ID to cash a postal money order. I told her I had a passport, she then asked for a Drivers License. I told her I was not driving and did not have one. I handed her the passport, she asked what the "Not for ID" meant, I told her "because I did not know where or when I was born." she said "Okay" and then cashed out the postal money order I had given her.

I do not have a scanner, or I would scan the app with my amendments to it.

David, have you traveled outside of the "country" with your world passport?

Hi Martin...thanks for sharing your experience.

Do you still have a copy of your app and amendments? If so, could we maybe encourage you to go to a Kinko/FedEx store where they have document scanners to scan your app/amendments and then display them here?....puhleez? :)))

I would sooooo like to emulate your success with a success of my own with a new passport.

Big THANKS in advance for any/all effort.

Hbert

Treefarmer
04-29-11, 03:58 PM
I looked into these, but instead, I got the united States passport. I did, however, read the instructions with the application.

The instructions and notices with the APP spell out if something on the app did not apply to me, to line them out and supply a written notice why.

So, I struck out many things on the app, including anything about "US Citizen", put "reported" on the Date of Birth and all that.

Also, with the Notices, I "Refused for Cause" several things (the parts about using the information for law enforcement, IRS, collections, etc etc. On the "no refund" part and NOTICED them the fees were being paid with redeemed lawful money and I would get a full refund should they refuse to supply a passport. I also gave a non-domestic address on the app with no zip code. And a separate C/O address for return mailing.

All "0"s where is asked for SSN.

I made copies of the application, the notices and returned the ones with my R4C with the app. I wrote a letter telling them I had no first hand information about the reported dates, places and other incidentals on the app and would not swear or affirm to any of them being true or factual.

All without prejudice, signed in true name.

I did this after reading another passport and seeing that nowhere did it say anything about a "US Citizen" (only citizen/national of the United States) and that the passport had an admonition from the Secretary of state to provide the bearer with "lawful protection and aid and not to delay", which I thought was okay with me.

I clearly singed their new passport "NOT FOR ID" "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED" "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" By: True Name.

I have Used it to travel out of the Nation without issue. One private security guy at an airport stated my added verbiage above my autograph "invalidated" the passport.

I simply responded "Hmmmm." with a puzzled look on my face. He handed it back to me and I got on the airplane, no other agents said a word about it.

A postal clerk asked me for ID to cash a postal money order. I told her I had a passport, she then asked for a Drivers License. I told her I was not driving and did not have one. I handed her the passport, she asked what the "Not for ID" meant, I told her "because I did not know where or when I was born." she said "Okay" and then cashed out the postal money order I had given her.

I do not have a scanner, or I would scan the app with my amendments to it.

David, have you traveled outside of the "country" with your world passport?

Very interesting, thank you martin earl.
I'm wondering, how did you handle the R4Cs?
Did you file copies into your USDC case file?

martin earl
04-29-11, 08:55 PM
Very interesting, thank you martin earl.
I'm wondering, how did you handle the R4Cs?
Did you file copies into your USDC case file?

Right now, I just have copies in my own records. It is my intention to start filing them in a mic. case jacket. Right now, I am saving money for some actual 350 lawful money District Court suits (and becoming a suitor myself), so all my change is going to the piggy bank for those.

Hbert, I will try to get some pictures of the Passport app with an Iphone and email them then post them here.

Hbert997
04-30-11, 03:14 AM
Hbert, I will try to get some pictures of the Passport app with an Iphone and email them then post them here.

m.e., that sounds great!

allodial
05-30-11, 09:33 PM
Adobe Acrobat Professional with the right fonts (typically Helvetica or other commercial fonts) can be used to modify forms. Also "...since becoming a U.S. citizen..." doesnt actually mean you ever became a U.S. citizen, does it?

allodial
05-30-11, 10:38 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2426/3592268535_ddc167f7b3.jpg

VISA in WSA passport.

Hbert997
05-31-11, 01:17 AM
martin earl...

Have you had any success in getting your new passport scanned and sanitized for sharing?

I'm eager to learn/know how to accomplish this correctly in the same manner as you describe.

Hbert

martin earl
06-24-11, 12:48 AM
martin earl...

Have you had any success in getting your new passport scanned and sanitized for sharing?

I'm eager to learn/know how to accomplish this correctly in the same manner as you describe.

Hbert

Hbert, I am working on it, trying to get clear enough pictures on an Iphone of the papers, I am having trouble blotting out certain items, maybe I can send them email to David and he can post them, my laptop is not the best at such things.

I have an evidence repository now, so I will file them there as well. I apologize for the delay in getting them, it has been a very busy summer!

David Merrill
06-24-11, 09:59 AM
Hbert, I am working on it, trying to get clear enough pictures on an Iphone of the papers, I am having trouble blotting out certain items, maybe I can send them email to David and he can post them, my laptop is not the best at such things.

I have an evidence repository now, so I will file them there as well. I apologize for the delay in getting them, it has been a very busy summer!

That is a good method. Put Sticky Note cutouts over the address and other items you want redacted by the US clerk of court and publish through PACER. Paint is a good program for editing out private information too.

My travels and future travels are private but I suggest that you go visit a local embassy for your destination and get the visa in advance. You can do so without any obligation to go there so you can collect visas on your passport and when the border guard, say in a stricter nation like Israel see that other nations accept the WSA Passport, that tends to smooth things.



http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5508/nameconsularoffices.jpg



One thing I hope that they have addressed is Name. Then you go to page 5 and they explain that is Surname. I spoke about this with their attorney. He agreed with me but wanted to keep the convention, which is deceptive. If they would have said Surname on the face of the passport then I would have gladly put VAN PELT there, in all upper case letters. But that is the real crux of the legal trust now, isn't it?

The WSA wants to trick people into thinking that their family name is their name, or part of their name.

allodial
06-24-11, 11:30 PM
That is a trend on various passports that I have been pointing out. Its evidence IMHO that they are wholly pushing for the public side. A prospective remedy is to file a notice explaining the intent. Alternatively or also to make sure the signature is something like:


John for DOE HENRY JOHN

Any thumbprint would be over "John" rather than over DOE HENRY JOHN. Or "By: John, as Secured Party/Authorized Representative." Interestingly enough...

http://photo.minghui.org/images/persecution_evidence/outside_persecution_asia/images/2004-7-13-gaohao-passport.jpg

The Chinese passport is rather unique in that it simply states (in mixed case) "Name in full".

allodial
06-25-11, 01:57 AM
BTW! Pay close attention to the MRZ..its encoded FIRST LAST too!! Not "LAST FIRST". He claims his name to be Gao Hao not Hao Goa. Quite telling. According to the ICAO standard the first line of the MRZ is:

1. Document Type such as "P" or "LP" [Field size = 2 characters]
2. Issuing State code (ISO 3166 Standard). [Field size = 3 characters]
3. Name [Field size = 39 characters]

AFAIK the ICAO standard book does not specify whether "last name" or "first name" comes first or not. The field is simply "Name".

For edification compare to:

http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/news/gallery/2008/jan/18/chess/PD6420221@-FILE--This-is-a-phot-2315.jpg

http://2012patriot.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obamas-world-citizen-passport1.jpg?w=450&h=341

David Merrill how about a place of birth as "Private", "The Americas" or "on North America"?

David Merrill
06-25-11, 07:19 AM
I think you reiterate my point. They should specify Surname like the Iceland Passport you show there.

WSA specifies on Page 5 that Name means Surname. I am saying WSA should say what they mean on the face of the Passport. Since they say Name I had them put in my name.

I like this entry for location. (http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1236/wsaexampleukogaddress.pdf)

Working Dog
02-20-12, 09:22 PM
I find myself in need of renewing my U.S. Passport before very long and am trying wrap my head around all of this. I have had one for decades but only recently entered into serious study. They seem to leave a lot out in "Civics" class:mad:. I certainly would like to see what Martin Earl submitted to the passport office.

A slight digression: I have been redeeming lawful money for less then a year but did manage make my demand and to change my signature card at the bank some months ago. I simply made it clear to the bank worker that I wanted to follow the law and make sure I was redeeming "lawful money" pursuant to 12 USC 411. He said no problem and that has been the case. The tellers see my nice red stamp and signature, dba WORKING K DOG, deposit the lawful money and that has been the end of it for me.

I know the "tax" issue is like peeling an onion so I'll just say that from what I can tell ONE of the lynch pins is that most folks sign a 1040 form without reading the jurat, which states very clearly that you are signing under "penalties of perjury". I can think of only one class of living souls who could be in that situation - someone who has knowingly taken an oath of office. In contrast, things like a passport application or an application for a "Social Security Number" have a singular "penalty of perjury". I did at one time work for the Federals but I gave that up many years ago. I am now simply a peaceful man. No doubt some in the Federal service may still make the presumption that I still work for them. I correct them as best I can. Presumption is a very big part of the game. Additionally, there is Admiralty....

The research that David Merrill has done, along with the efforts of the StSC brain trust is greatly appreciated. I hope to be in a position to help as I become better educated and become a "Suitor" myself.

Working Dog
05-25-12, 06:39 PM
As I mentioned in the previous post, I would like to renew “my” U.S. Passport for the sole purpose of international travel. As an experiment, I filled out the “renewal” form in the style of Martin Earl, as near as I could tell from his description (e.g. not for id, “0”’s for SSN, R4C most of their notices, etc.) I also included a letter, noticing them, as per the instructions on the particulars as indicated and also noting the fact that an error had been made in my original application many years ago, and asking them to correct my political status to a national of the United States for international travel purposes since I was born in a union State. I also noticed them that the funds associated with this renewal were being paid in redeemed lawful money pursuant to Title 12 U.S.C. 411. I signed in my true name but was also careful to use proper nouns for the names on the passport form. This obviously does not match the NAME on the old passport, which I provided to them as per the instructions.

Two weeks after my submission, I received a response from the Passport Office that I found educational. They pointed out that the facts of my “birth” appear to entitle me to a U.S. Passport but that due to the 14th Amendment, I was “U.S. citizen”. They also objected to me striking out the “penalty of perjury” words in the “oath” and finally noted that all funds, expect those associated with “overnight delivery” are non refundable. The letter was unsigned and unattributed.

I responded to the letter with some questions to clarify how the 14th Amendment related to me, and if they were content to maintain inaccurate records. I finished with another request for them to reissue the passport. I have now received yet another unsigned, unattributed letter from “customer service” saying that they will not process the request without a “new, un-altered” “application”. They specifically did not answer any of my questions.

I am now contemplating my approach going forward. According to their letter I have 90 days but who really knows.

On one hand I don’t mind exploring a bit more to see what I can learn as others may gain some value in that exercise. On the other hand, exploring may just be a waste of time with the “gatekeeper” who is not trustworthy enough to even provide their name.

Interestingly, in some of my recent related research I have come across copies of passport applications from the early 1900’s, after the Federal Reserve Act but before the Social Security Act where men and women born in one of the union States were referred to as “a Native and Loyal Citizen of the United States” – NOT U.S. citizens. Even more interestingly, the applications are for “Commercial Travelers” with references to the “Trading with the Enemy Act”. I wonder what the deal is for “non-commercial travelers”. Folks at that time seemed to usually sign their name in proper English (First and Last)

All thoughts appreciated!

David Merrill
05-26-12, 12:11 AM
Altering the form was a novation by you and that allows for their R4C. It sounds like they are willing to honor your payment if you are willing to identify yourself with the passport as a US citizen.

I suggest you get a WSA passport too. Get it all marked up with all the visas you can. Remember that getting a visa does not obligate you to going there to that country.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5508/nameconsularoffices.jpg

My passport (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1EaV_bU7VImeEJJS2VwSEl3Zms) only has my true name. But they call the family nomen NAME on the page and I could not lie. So I insisted they put my name by the NAME - and you go to page 5 to find out that they mean Family Name by NAME. So I talked this over with the WSA attorney (https://www.box.com/s/58a40052f132fe9e29ec)and he agreed with me but not enough to change the form of the WSA passport to tell the truth.


My suggestion is that you get your visas pre-approved and use the WSA Passport but if the customs officer says,

No. I meant your real passport.

Then you explain that you prefer to identify yourself by your true name rather than to create the legal fiction and pull out the traditional passport.

shikamaru
05-26-12, 02:33 PM
As I mentioned in the previous post, I would like to renew ?my? U.S. Passport for the sole purpose of international travel. As an experiment, I filled out the ?renewal? form in the style of Martin Earl, as near as I could tell from his description (e.g. not for id, ?0??s for SSN, R4C most of their notices, etc.) I also included a letter, noticing them, as per the instructions on the particulars as indicated and also noting the fact that an error had been made in my original application many years ago, and asking them to correct my political status to a national of the United States for international travel purposes since I was born in a union State. I also noticed them that the funds associated with this renewal were being paid in redeemed lawful money pursuant to Title 12 U.S.C. 411. I signed in my true name but was also careful to use proper nouns for the names on the passport form. This obviously does not match the NAME on the old passport, which I provided to them as per the instructions.

Two weeks after my submission, I received a response from the Passport Office that I found educational. They pointed out that the facts of my ?birth? appear to entitle me to a U.S. Passport but that due to the 14th Amendment, I was ?U.S. citizen?. They also objected to me striking out the ?penalty of perjury? words in the ?oath? and finally noted that all funds, expect those associated with ?overnight delivery? are non refundable. The letter was unsigned and unattributed.

I responded to the letter with some questions to clarify how the 14th Amendment related to me, and if they were content to maintain inaccurate records. I finished with another request for them to reissue the passport. I have now received yet another unsigned, unattributed letter from ?customer service? saying that they will not process the request without a ?new, un-altered? ?application?. They specifically did not answer any of my questions.

I am now contemplating my approach going forward. According to their letter I have 90 days but who really knows.

On one hand I don?t mind exploring a bit more to see what I can learn as others may gain some value in that exercise. On the other hand, exploring may just be a waste of time with the ?gatekeeper? who is not trustworthy enough to even provide their name.

Interestingly, in some of my recent related research I have come across copies of passport applications from the early 1900?s, after the Federal Reserve Act but before the Social Security Act where men and women born in one of the union States were referred to as ?a Native and Loyal Citizen of the United States? ? NOT U.S. citizens. Even more interestingly, the applications are for ?Commercial Travelers? with references to the ?Trading with the Enemy Act?. I wonder what the deal is for ?non-commercial travelers?. Folks at that time seemed to usually sign their name in proper English (First and Last)

All thoughts appreciated!

I believe you better to be a national of any one of the 50 states rather than a national of the United States.

Remember, the 50 states .... the several (individual) states are nations in their own right.

'National of the United States' may be a status of the conquered territories obtained by the United States i.e. Guam, Puerto Rico, etc.

David Merrill
05-27-12, 12:46 AM
Altering the form was a novation by you and that allows for their R4C. It sounds like they are willing to honor your payment if you are willing to identify yourself with the passport as a US citizen.

I suggest you get a WSA passport too. Get it all marked up with all the visas you can. Remember that getting a visa does not obligate you to going there to that country.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5508/nameconsularoffices.jpg

My passport (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1EaV_bU7VImeEJJS2VwSEl3Zms) only has my true name. But they call the family nomen NAME on the page and I could not lie. So I insisted they put my name by the NAME - and you go to page 5 to find out that they mean Family Name by NAME. So I talked this over with the WSA attorney (https://www.box.com/s/58a40052f132fe9e29ec)and he agreed with me but not enough to change the form of the WSA passport to tell the truth.


My suggestion is that you get your visas pre-approved and use the WSA Passport but if the customs officer says,

No. I meant your real passport.

Then you explain that you prefer to identify yourself by your true name rather than to create the legal fiction and pull out the traditional passport.

That is great in theory but there are no states that issue passports.

allodial
05-27-12, 02:01 AM
Its the FIRST MIDDLE LAST entity that the US wishes to issue the passport to.

shikamaru
05-27-12, 11:11 AM
That is great in theory but there are no states that issue passports.

Government does recognize nationals of a State such as Michiganer, Californian, etc.
It even states in one of their style manuals, I believe.

David Merrill
05-27-12, 02:24 PM
Government does recognize nationals of a State such as Michiganer, Californian, etc.
It even states in one of their style manuals, I believe.

And I have heard that an apostille on the birth certificate notary (or something like that) in accord with the Hague Convention will serve nicely for a passport. I am not sure I believe it. I think it would be best if traveling to keep a standard issue passport and only use it when your preferred methods fail.

Working Dog
05-29-12, 09:33 PM
A fair point shikamaru.

I was very clear that the passport was for "international travel" only. My understanding, flawed as it may be, is that U.S. passports are for crossing international borders. That is all I want it for. They seem to want to give it more "utility" - at least for them.

Working Dog
05-29-12, 09:40 PM
Yes, that does appear to be the case. On the other hand, they did not object to my use of proper names on the renewal form. If a U.S. Citizen is always a legal fiction I would agree, but I am not so sure. At one time, say 1875, there were lots of legitimate 14th Amendment citizens (former slaves) walking about as free men as I understand it.


Its the FIRST MIDDLE LAST entity that the US wishes to issue the passport to.

allodial
05-30-12, 02:10 AM
Government does recognize nationals of a State such as Michiganer, Californian, etc.
It even states in one of their style manuals, I believe.

Perhaps because there are States of the United States that are creatures of the United States (mainly post 1862/1871) and there are States of America which created the United States and if you dont make the distinction....


Yes, that does appear to be the case. On the other hand, they did not object to my use of proper names on the renewal form. If a U.S. Citizen is always a legal fiction I would agree, but I am not so sure. At one time, say 1875, there were lots of legitimate 14th Amendment citizens (former slaves) walking about as free men as I understand it.

Proper name?

David Merrill
05-30-12, 08:19 AM
Another way to say it is that they want power of attorney:


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6872/nameinagent.jpg

shikamaru
05-31-12, 12:04 AM
A fair point shikamaru.

I was very clear that the passport was for "international travel" only. My understanding, flawed as it may be, is that U.S. passports are for crossing international borders. That is all I want it for. They seem to want to give it more "utility" - at least for them.

Technically, when you cross one US state into another, you are traveling internationally :).

We could say one is also traveling intranationally as well given the States have individual (the several States) as well as an aggregate capacity known was the United States of America.

A symbol of the aggregate capacity of the States is the U.S. Constitution .... a compact (treaty) ... and a charter establishing an international public corporation styled government of the United States.

A federal government (as opposed to a national government).

Probably the closest thing to a "passport" within the territorial United States would be a driver's license.

David Merrill
05-31-12, 12:58 AM
That sounds reasonable.

allodial
05-31-12, 04:06 AM
Probably the closest thing to a "passport" within the territorial United States would be a driver's license.

Or "state ID".

shikamaru
05-31-12, 02:54 PM
There are competing theories about the Constitution being a compact or not.

It is the opinion of courts that the Constitution is not a compact, but the majority of the authors of the Federalist Papers refer to the Constitution as a compact.

A compact refers more to the founding document of a confederation such as the Articles of Confederation.

According to Wikipedia, the States were the creators of the Articles of Confederation.
The People of the United States are the creators of the Constitution.

Compact theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_theory)

Working Dog
06-03-12, 07:41 PM
Perhaps because there are States of the United States that are creatures of the United States (mainly post 1862/1871) and there are States of America which created the United States and if you dont make the distinction....

Thank you Allodial. I agree. In my request to "renew" I did not use the name of the CORPORATE fictions created post 1862/71. It may not make a difference in the eyes of the man or woman looking at the "Renewal" form. The may only "see" the FICTION.

This was an experiment so I could see what they would object to and cite if they did not want to make any "corrections" to their records or issue a new passort. They seem to be focused on the jurat and under penalty of perjury issue. I will not knowingly make a false statement. The challenge is I am not the Creator and I don't know everything, but only a vanishingly small bit...


Proper name?

Working Knot Dog vs WORKING KNOT DOG

Things that are similar are not the same. At least that is my understanding.

Interestingly, in re-examining the forms (DS-11) vs ( DS-82) the latter has this above the space for name:

"1. Name Last"

The DS-11, original application used to state: "Fill in using all block letters". Now it also reads like the DS-82.

Working Dog
06-03-12, 08:00 PM
Technically, when you cross one US state into another, you are traveling internationally :).

We could say one is also traveling intranationally as well given the States have individual (the several States) as well as an aggregate capacity known was the United States of America.

A symbol of the aggregate capacity of the States is the U.S. Constitution .... a compact (treaty) ... and a charter establishing an international public corporation styled government of the United States.

A federal government (as opposed to a national government).

Probably the closest thing to a "passport" within the territorial United States would be a driver's license.

I suppose that is true. However, from a practical perspective no one in a fancy costume is setting at the border with guns when I cross from Kentucky into Tennessee. When I fly to the UK, they are always there to greet me and go through my bags. The same thing when I return home.

My opinion, hardly worth much at this point, is that the Union setup under the Articles of Confederation is still in force. That is where the "more perfect union" comes from in the preamble and I can find no evidence that it was ever repealed. The problems seem to mostly come from the war of 1861 and the continuing emergency, all exacerbated by the undermining of the government by the banking cartel in 1913.

The Constitution gave the power to control the borders to the federal government. One tool they use, along with virtually every other "government" is a passport. I hope there is a way for those of us who understand what has happend to obtain a lawful passport.

David Merrill
11-07-12, 12:09 AM
I lost my wallet recently. The WSA (http://www.worldservice.org/visas.html) is replacing my passport and World ID Card and expediting for free because I am already a client.

allodial
11-07-12, 01:12 AM
There are competing theories about the Constitution being a compact or not.

It is the opinion of courts that the Constitution is not a compact, but the majority of the authors of the Federalist Papers refer to the Constitution as a compact.

A compact refers more to the founding document of a confederation such as the Articles of Confederation.

According to Wikipedia, the States were the creators of the Articles of Confederation.
The People of the United States are the creators of the Constitution.

Compact theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_theory)


The federal system being destitute of both, wants the great vital principles of a Political Constitution. Under the form of such a constitution, it is in fact nothing more than a treaty of amity of commerce and of alliance, between independent and Sovereign States.

From: Vices of the Political System of the United States, James Madison apparently referring to the Article of Confederation. However.. *drum roll*

What if the 1788 Constitution Convention was nothing but a private corporate charter masquerading as a de jure constitutional convention?

Seosaidh
11-07-12, 03:16 AM
From: Vices of the Political System of the United States, James Madison apparently referring to the Article of Confederation. However.. *drum roll*

What if the 1788 Constitution Convention was nothing but a private corporate charter masquerading as a de jure constitutional convention?

How would you discern the difference between a public corporation versus a private one?

allodial
11-07-12, 03:30 AM
How would you discern the difference between a public corporation versus a private one?

#1 Created for a public purpose within the venue of creation or activity
#2 Created according to the will, plan, intent and directives of the public creating the corporation.
#3 Open to public control and public scrutiny.

Now "public" can be a word relative to the venue.

If the delegates at the Constitutional Convention didn't follow the instructions of those delegating them and if they did their own thing, then they weren't delegates with respect to what they did and weren't acting under the authority of any of the united states. :) If a cop goes and robs a liquor store--he isn't a cop, he's a man robbing a liquor store in disguise. If you and I send attorneys off to negotiate for us according to a specific criteria and they put something together according to their own personal tastes then they were acting for themselves without respect to us. If the us is the public of the united states back then, then the delegates would be much like private incorporators, no?


The convention decided to disregard the amendment procedures prescribed in the Articles of Confederation and instead provided that each state should hold a special election for delegates to a ratifying convention. Alexander Hamilton (Biography)

From a strict technical and legal sense, the 1788 Constitution could not have replaced the Articles of Confederation, IMHO it created something entirely new.

Seosaidh
11-07-12, 04:48 AM
#1 Created for a public purpose within the venue of creation or activity
#2 Created according to the will, plan, intent and directives of the public creating the corporation.
#3 Open to public control and public scrutiny.

Now "public" can be a word relative to the venue.

If the delegates at the Constitutional Convention didn't follow the instructions of those delegating them and if they did their own thing, then they weren't delegates with respect to what they did and weren't acting under the authority of any of the united states. :) If a cop goes and robs a liquor store--he isn't a cop, he's a man robbing a liquor store in disguise. If you and I send attorneys off to negotiate for us according to a specific criteria and they put something together according to their own personal tastes then they were acting for themselves without respect to us. If the us is the public of the united states back then, then the delegates would be much like private incorporators, no?



From a strict technical and legal sense, the 1788 Constitution could not have replaced the Articles of Confederation, IMHO it created something entirely new.

Oh, I agree a new thing was created. It just seems to me that the old thing was a private corporation as well. But then, I also think that all corporations are private, since people have to either elect to be in one, or are forced to be in one. The distinction between public and private is a meaningless one to me. Corporations are ideas concieved by people, created by people, operated by people, and ultimately dissolved by people.

shikamaru
11-07-12, 04:51 AM
What if the 1788 Constitution Convention was nothing but a private corporate charter masquerading as a de jure constitutional convention?

I have always liked you thinking, allodial :).

shikamaru
11-07-12, 04:53 AM
How would you discern the difference between a public corporation versus a private one?

Public corporations are formed via a charter (say .... a constitution which is a power of attorney document) or statute and is funded by tax revenue i.e. the public purse .....

Private corporations are formed via a corporate charter and funds its own operations out of its profits.

Source of funding as well as purpose are the differences here between them.

David Merrill
11-07-12, 07:55 AM
From: Vices of the Political System of the United States, James Madison apparently referring to the Article of Confederation. However.. *drum roll*

What if the 1788 Constitution Convention was nothing but a private corporate charter masquerading as a de jure constitutional convention?


This is why there was only one delegate from New York.


Regards,

David Merrill.
[High Priest of the DEITI.]
Dutch East Indies Trading Industry.

allodial
11-07-12, 10:37 AM
This is why there was only one delegate from New York.


Regards,

David Merrill.
[High Priest of the DEITI.]
Dutch East Indies Trading Industry.

:) Interestingly, I had been ruminating over a more lucid comprehension over both New York's and Georgia's perspective on the matter.

***

Under the Articles of Confederation, unanimous consent of the states was required. They did not have unanimous consent of the states. However it took only 9 states to admit a new colony. :)

David Merrill
11-07-12, 02:21 PM
:) Interestingly, I had been ruminating over a more lucid comprehension over both New York's and Georgia's perspective on the matter.

***

Under the Articles of Confederation, unanimous consent of the states was required. They did not have unanimous consent of the states. However it took only 9 states to admit a new colony. :)

This is nearly direct to World Citizenship but I am taking this over to Patroons of New York (http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showthread.php?731-Patroons-of-New-York). What you have shown me is that Dr. Dale LIVINGSTON may not have been talking about an improper quorum for New York, but rather an improper quorum (http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3284/noquorum341789.pdf) for the States of the Union?

Rhode Island is missing all right! - And it says:


By the unanimous consent of the states present...

Louis Holger
05-06-15, 06:08 AM
Has anyone ever heard of a world citizenship passport?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Passport

I have one, along with a World Birth Certificate, World Citizen Registration Card, and World ID. I have yet to travel outside of the country with my World Passport. My plan is to first visit countries that openly accept the World Passport. That way I can have stamps as proof of entry and acceptance by countries past in order to more easily convince boarder agents to grant me access to the country.

Louis Holger
07-27-15, 11:39 AM
Has anyone ever heard of a world citizenship passport?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Passport

Yes I have one. Type world service authority into your search engine.