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stoneFree
03-05-11, 05:04 AM
About a year ago I installed this free program: Bitcoin (http://bitcoin.org)
Set it to "Generate Coins" and mostly forgot about it. Then recently came across this news: BitCoin virtual currency reaches parity with Dollar (http://maxkeiser.com/2011/02/14/virtual-currency-reaches-parity-with-dollar-forget-the-yuan-yen-euro-and-real-the-dollar-cant-even-keep-up-with-economic-ghosts-in-virtual-machines/).
When I checked, discovered I had several hundred bitcoins. There are several sites where you can trade or exchange these into other currencies, like MtGox.com and bitcoinmarket.com.

Aside from generating currency (albeit slowly) you may be more interested in it's privacy/anonymity when trading which may explain its popularity among cypherpunks. And Bitcoins certainly do not involve any federal privilege or benefit (& I think you can grasp the power of trading outside the Fraudulent Reserve System).

Treefarmer
03-09-11, 07:16 PM
Very interesting.
I looked up some of the info and watched the little intro video but I'm not getting a mental image of the process yet.
What is it that Bitcoin gets from your CPU which it then rewards by issuing bitcoins to you?

In other words, what kind of service did you provide which generated the several hundred bitcoins for you?

Thank you

stoneFree
03-19-11, 09:56 PM
Yes, you're providing your computer's processing power (CPU/GPU). Bitcoins are earned (or mined) in increments of 50 and it appears they are much harder (http://bitcoin.atspace.com/income.html) to generate now than last year. I've been generating for about a month now with nothing to show for it. Apparently there's a correlation (http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4339.0) between BTC price and difficulty. Not sure it's worth the cost of electricity, unless perhaps your computer is on 24/7 already.

Nonetheless, it's an interesting currency. I'd accept bitcoin as payment.

shikamaru
03-20-11, 01:21 PM
About a year ago I installed this free program: Bitcoin (http://bitcoin.org)
Set it to "Generate Coins" and mostly forgot about it. Then recently came across this news: BitCoin virtual currency reaches parity with Dollar (http://maxkeiser.com/2011/02/14/virtual-currency-reaches-parity-with-dollar-forget-the-yuan-yen-euro-and-real-the-dollar-cant-even-keep-up-with-economic-ghosts-in-virtual-machines/).
When I checked, discovered I had several hundred bitcoins. There are several sites where you can trade or exchange these into other currencies, like MtGox.com and bitcoinmarket.com.

Aside from generating currency (albeit slowly) you may be more interested in it's privacy/anonymity when trading which may explain its popularity among cypherpunks. And Bitcoins certainly do not involve any federal privilege or benefit (& I think you can grasp the power of trading outside the Fraudulent Reserve System).

Interesting idea.
I'd be careful with alternative forms of means of exchange. Governments get all weirded over such matters :).
Learned recently from freemen.freeforums.org, that the creator of the Liberty Dollar was convicted in federal court.

If government wants all the coins, let them have it. Barter is just as good a method of exchange as any.

When using public money or private credit of government, be sure to securely box it within the realm of commerce. Engage in commerce at arm's length always.

stoneFree
05-01-11, 11:04 PM
Heh. "Governments get all weirded" because the banksters went into partnership with government to enslave you, subtlety. They don't tolerate much competition on their monopoly (scam).

Anyway, just noticed that bitcoins are now trading north of $3 (http://www.mtgox.com). Not sure why, except perhaps growth in popularity.

I think I know why I was able to generate hundreds of bitcoins last year, and none this year. Generating (mining) difficulty has steadily increased & there were fewer people generating last year. As this calculator (http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php) shows, it will take the average 1900 khps hash rate computer 1988 days to generate its first 50 Bitcoin block. A computer with a beefy GPU (graphics processing unit) will do better: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU

shikamaru
05-02-11, 11:05 PM
Heh. "Governments get all weirded" because the banksters went into partnership with government to enslave you, subtlety. They don't tolerate much competition on their monopoly (scam).

Anyway, just noticed that bitcoins are now trading north of $3 (http://www.mtgox.com). Not sure why, except perhaps growth in popularity.

I think I know why I was able to generate hundreds of bitcoins last year, and none this year. Generating (mining) difficulty has steadily increased & there were fewer people generating last year. As this calculator (http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php) shows, it will take the average 1900 khps hash rate computer 1988 days to generate its first 50 Bitcoin block. A computer with a beefy GPU (graphics processing unit) will do better: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU

I personally go by the "grubby little hands" philosophy with regard to mediums of exchange.

Hold derivatives in public vehicles.

stoneFree
07-11-11, 05:19 PM
Update: Bitcoins are now trading between $14 -15 USD each. Last month the crypto-currency was tested when 2 large thefts/attacks of bitcoin wallets occurred. The thief attempted to unload them at the largest exchange, MtGox, which caused the site to go offline for awhile. All appears back to normal now. Bitcoin is growing in popularity & receives regular press. A good site to stay on top of it all is: http://bitcoinwatch.com

MINING
I did setup a bitcoin mining rig (http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3949/bitcoinminer.jpg) but had to summon all my powers of geek to do it. It's running Ubuntu linux operating system and pic shows the ATI Radeon HD 5970 graphics card (GPU) removed. That's the key component. It hashes at about 700Mh/s, enough to initially net me about 1 bitcoin per day (mining in a pool with other miners), but mining difficulty (resets every 2 weeks) has risen to where I now mine about 1/2 a bitcoin per day.

I've sold several items in return for bitcoin and purchased a bunch with it too, even web services. http://data.memorydealers.com/Pictures/BITCOIN_BILLBOARD.jpg

shikamaru
07-11-11, 05:35 PM
Update: Bitcoins are now trading between $14 -15 USD each. Last month the crypto-currency was tested when 2 large thefts/attacks of bitcoin wallets occurred. The thief attempted to unload them at the largest exchange, MtGox, which caused the site to go offline for awhile. All appears back to normal now. Bitcoin is growing in popularity & receives regular press. A good site to stay on top of it all is: http://bitcoinwatch.com

MINING
I did setup a bitcoin mining rig (http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3949/bitcoinminer.jpg) but had to summon all my powers of geek to do it. It's running Ubuntu linux operating system and pic shows the ATI Radeon HD 5970 graphics card (GPU) removed. That's the key component. It hashes at about 700Mh/s, enough to initially net me about 1 bitcoin per day (mining in a pool with other miners), but mining difficulty (resets every 2 weeks) has risen to where I now mine about 1/2 a bitcoin per day.

I've sold several items in return for bitcoin and purchased a bunch with it too, even web services. http://data.memorydealers.com/Pictures/BITCOIN_BILLBOARD.jpg

That is pretty cool !!

If you are really serious about mining, I would setup a cluster of servers configured as a compute cluster.

A cluster of Intel i7 processors would rip :).

If we wanted to go cheap, AMDs would work great.
Do you know what portion processing bitcoin would tax the most say FPU?

stoneFree
07-11-11, 07:13 PM
Shika, my miner has a Intel i7 CPU but when I ticked the "generate coins" box on the client I got about 5Mh/s. Using one of the custom CPU-mining apps you could probably double or triple that but notice that's still pathetically lower than the 700Mh/s my overclocked video card puts out. In fact, the latest bitcoin client (0.3.24) includes no "generate" option in recognition that custom mining apps now far surpass client CPU mining.

This should answer most of your mining questions: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Mining
The quick answer is GPUs are far faster than CPUs at SHA-256 hashing. GPUs are built to quickly render a moving 3-dimensional world on your 2-D screen, a simulation, which requires lots of simultaneous calculations (I will admit to some 3D gaming in my day). BTW, these hi-end graphics cards are hard to find cheap anymore - the miners are buying them up.

Oh there's a guy out there with a killer rack setup - I should find the link for ya.
Here it is, 48Gh/s baby! http://www.youtube.com/user/diversionhobbies

shikamaru
07-11-11, 09:40 PM
Shika, my miner has a Intel i7 CPU but when I ticked the "generate coins" box on the client I got about 5Mh/s. Using one of the custom CPU-mining apps you could probably double or triple that but notice that's still pathetically lower than the 700Mh/s my overclocked video card puts out. In fact, the latest bitcoin client (0.3.24) includes no "generate" option in recognition that custom mining apps now far surpass client CPU mining.

This should answer most of your mining questions: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Mining
The quick answer is GPUs are far faster than CPUs at SHA-256 hashing. GPUs are built to quickly render a moving 3-dimensional world on your 2-D screen, a simulation, which requires lots of simultaneous calculations (I will admit to some 3D gaming in my day). BTW, these hi-end graphics cards are hard to find cheap anymore - the miners are buying them up.

Oh there's a guy out there with a killer rack setup - I should find the link for ya.
Here it is, 48Gh/s baby! http://www.youtube.com/user/diversionhobbies

My inner nerd is pleased...LOL

JohnnyCash
08-14-11, 06:36 PM
Quatloos.com has an OPEN FORUM/THREAD (http://quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewforum.php?f=15) for new topics (password is dollar). Typically an admin will then move the new thread to an appropriate forum.

I started a new thread there about BITCOIN. It contained a link to this article: Why Bitcoin isn't a security under federal securities law (http://www.lextechnologiae.com/2011/06/26/why-bitcoin-isnt-a-security-under-federal-securities-law/). I noticed the thread did not move and was eventually deleted.

Quatloos leadership seems fearful of bitcoin. I think this reinforces my theory that Quatloos is aligned with the banking cartel. Bitcoin transactions not only bypass our central bank (Federal Reserve), they bypass banks altogether. I don't think there's anything a Quatloser will more staunchly defend than central banking & the bankster's system of wealth extraction as collected by the IRS.

David Merrill
08-14-11, 07:48 PM
Quatloos.com has an OPEN FORUM/THREAD (http://quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewforum.php?f=15) for new topics (password is dollar). Typically an admin will then move the new thread to an appropriate forum.

I started a new thread there about BITCOIN. It contained a link to this article: Why Bitcoin isn't a security under federal securities law (http://www.lextechnologiae.com/2011/06/26/why-bitcoin-isnt-a-security-under-federal-securities-law/). I noticed the thread did not move and was eventually deleted.

Quatloos leadership seems fearful of bitcoin. I think this reinforces my theory that Quatloos is aligned with the banking cartel. Bitcoin transactions not only bypass our central bank (Federal Reserve), they bypass banks altogether. I don't think there's anything a Quatloser will more staunchly defend than central banking & the bankster's system of wealth extraction as collected by the IRS.


I think you are kind to Quatlosers.

About Bitcoin; now I am more curious than ever! I have really got to find some time to open an account.

stoneFree
10-01-11, 04:45 AM
Today my daughter asked "is mining bitcoins like printing money?"
"Yes."
"Is that legal?"
"Yes. It's like growing pumpkins. You can sell them or exchange them for other valuable things."

Had a brief setback when my video card fan started groaning horribly & failed. Had it replaced under warranty and all is well now. Possibly these GPU cards weren't designed to run overclocked @ full load 24/7 with the fan at 70%.

After a run-up to over $30, bitcoins have settled down and now exchange for about $5 USD each. Many bitcoin related sites have come under attack - of course thieves will exploit any vulnerabilities in anything money related but the crypto-currency marches right along. I would not be surprised to learn some of these attacks originate in the banking cartel.

As for anonymity, out of the box bitcoin transactions are more anonymous than your average credit card transaction. But for true anonymity additional steps are required.
http://mndrix.blogspot.com/2011/09/easily-anonymous-bitcoins.html

stoneFree
10-03-11, 03:31 AM
I would not be surprised to learn some of these attacks originate in the banking cartel.
In one of Bob Chapman's recent interviews [need link] he mentioned attacks against his International Forecaster (http://theinternationalforecaster.com) site and that the source of the attacks were traced to . . . . Bank of America!
And here in this video (http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTbull07) SGTbull shows how he traced the source of multiple hate-filled messages to IP addresses owned by . . . . Bank of America!

JohnnyCash
10-07-11, 03:21 AM
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/10/10/111010fa_fact_davis

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7537/nybitcoin2.jpg
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/4084/nybitcoin3.jpg
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4734/nybitcoin4.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9010/nybitcoin5.jpg

David Merrill
10-07-11, 10:18 AM
Thank you Johnny Cash;


That is quite revealing. A bubble around nothing at all; finally!

stoneFree
10-09-11, 05:29 AM
Couple of points. That's a good article; learned things I wasn't aware of. The author mentions 'Satoshi's' 500-word essay. Link to that can be found HERE (http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09959.html).

Mentions lack of wallet encryption. The latest bitcoin client (0.4.0) includes it. Be careful though - without your passphrase you have no bitcoin.

Security expert Dan Kaminsky thinks highly of bitcoin "I have a tremendous amount of respect for BitCoin; I count it in the top five most interesting security projects of the decade. Entire classes of bugs are missing." (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34458.msg429400#msg429400) And I'd agree that the design is bombproof, and even further, the banksters or government cannot shut it down.

While I have redeemed lawful money for years now (and will continue), and successfully avoided the bankster's Income Tax, the primary utility of bitcoin is transacting outside central banking. Using bitcoin as currency, there can be no question that I am outside the Federal Reserve districts, outside the FR system. And therefore absent federal privilege, absent liability for federal excise.

Now if the global banking system collapses and we go to an asset-backed Treasury dollar, bitcoin may not be as useful. But I'm confident it'll survive regardless.

stoneFree
12-01-11, 05:23 PM
Quick update. I'm still mining bitcoins (almost 1 per day). The bubble has settled down to about $3 USD per bitcoin now. The leading exchange, MtGox (https://mtgox.com/), has added new functionality like a smartphone app (http://mtgoxlive.com/mobile/), and funding with cash (ie. lawful money) for verified users at any Chase bank. Bitcoin continues to receive regular press (http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2011/11/bitcoin.html).

It remains a viable means of transacting outside central banking. That is to say ... the cartel has been unable to stop it. :D

stoneFree
03-07-12, 07:22 PM
Imagine if we lived in a world where your bank accounts could never be audited, seized or controlled by the state. Imagine if the currency system itself made organized theft impossible. In the future, I predict this is precisely how currency systems will operate. While this may sound like a bold claim, economic analysis demonstrates why my prediction may become reality.
...
www.policymic.com/articles/4980/bitcoin-crypto-anarchism-and-the-digital-money-revolution

JohnnyCash
03-21-12, 04:59 PM
Clif High discovers bitcoin: ".. and everytime you spend a bitcoin it is like you're shoving your foot that much further up the Bernank ..."

Grab the March 20 audio file here:
http://www.halfpasthuman.com/clifswujo.html

stoneFree
05-09-12, 02:06 PM
A new video has just been released:

Screw Banks! (http://screwbanks.net)

JohnnyCash
08-30-12, 04:40 PM
New Hampshire Deputy Secretary of State recognizes bitcoin as legal

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104544.0

shikamaru
08-30-12, 06:08 PM
New Hampshire Deputy Secretary of State recognizes bitcoin as legal

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104544.0

I'm certain that was done with an eye towards enhancement of the "royal revenues" .....

JohnnyCash
10-06-12, 12:52 AM
from BITCOIN MAGAZINE, bitcoin for beginners....

http://jesse2012.com/bitcoin4b.jpg

fishnet
10-10-12, 02:18 AM
Any other suitors besides stoneFree mining bitcoins? I have been for over a year now. I pre-ordered a few ASIC rigs from Butterfly Labs, waiting on delivery. There will be an interesting shift in the dynamics of bitcoin mining when the ASIC mining machines come online. Definately a disruptive technology.

Treefarmer
10-10-12, 11:10 PM
Any other suitors besides stoneFree mining bitcoins? I have been for over a year now. I pre-ordered a few ASIC rigs from Butterfly Labs, waiting on delivery. There will be an interesting shift in the dynamics of bitcoin mining when the ASIC mining machines come online. Definately a disruptive technology.

I've never used bitcoin but been reading the links which stoneFree and others have been providing.
I can't figure out what a bit coin is.

I gather that it exists in cyberspace, so it must be made from electrons somehow, and it is mined.
But how is "it" mined?
Who mines it, where and how?
What kind of equipment does the miner use and where are the mines?
Once it's mined, how is it placed in circulation?

shikamaru
10-10-12, 11:47 PM
I've never used bitcoin but been reading the links which stoneFree and others have been providing.
I can't figure out what a bit coin is.

I gather that it exists in cyberspace, so it must be made from electrons somehow, and it is mined.
But how is "it" mined?
Who mines it, where and how?
What kind of equipment does the miner use and where are the mines?
Once it's mined, how is it placed in circulation?

It is mined using processor cycles.
The equipment is a computer or cluster of computers.
Once mined, they may go into a virtual wallet.

stoneFree
10-11-12, 04:31 AM
fishnet! a whole year? I never knew. I have a (FPGA -field programmable gate array) BFL Single right here mining away at 826MH/s (lousy cellphone pic). I removed the casing for better cooling:

958

It performs as advertised. I too have BFL ASIC on pre-order, hope they can deliver as projected. Yes, ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit) will be huge, very disruptive. BFL (ButterflyLabs) is a very interesting company. I see at least one of the owners/principals came up against the IRS CID and was detained for something like 2 years overseas before trial. You see this is another unintended consequence. It appears the banking cartel has created ... how shall we say ... another very motivated individual who's probably figured out the fiat money fraud and is working very hard (as I am) for .... Well let's just leave it at that. Message to the cartel: YA DUN GOT TOO GREEDY!

fishnet
10-12-12, 02:04 AM
Message to the cartel: YA DUN GOT TOO GREEDY!

I could not resist the opportunity to manufacture a medium of exchange like the cartel does.

I have been mining since June of 2011, running a bank (pun intended) of multi-card mining machines with Radeon HD 5770's graphics cards, using the Eligius pool and MtGox. Once the ASICs arrive I will shut down the 5770's. Ordered three BitForce Single 'SC' 60 GH/s in early August..... a waiting game for delivery.

Treefarmer
10-12-12, 04:02 AM
It is mined using processor cycles.
The equipment is a computer or cluster of computers.
Once mined, they may go into a virtual wallet.

Too cryptic, I need elaboration please.
Do processor cycles have anything to do with computer CPI?
Is the value of a bitcoin derived from the work that a computer performs?
If so, what kind of work is performed and who benefits?

What IS a bitcoin? Is it a data packet or potential energy?

David Merrill
10-12-12, 11:14 AM
This is amazing! I was on a small engineering team and we invented the early FRAM arrays now 64GB mini-SD cards. I left there to go into the Optical markets now CDs and DVDs. Memory was and still is currency.

Processor cycles is like if you can imagine, convincing somebody that debt has value. Now you have a derivative and that opens up an opportunity for a derivative market. If you convince people that there is a potential value in cranking out heat, like the photo above, then you can start a market for bitcoins!

Amazing!

stoneFree
10-12-12, 04:14 PM
Amazing, yes! in many ways. Let me tell you, I have more faith in bitcoin than Federal Reserve money. I trust open-source apps, cryptography, and mathematics more than a central banker.

TREEFARMER: We got caught up here with mining bitcoin, which gets technical; sorry about that. You don't need to mine (generate) bitcoin to use it.

WHAT IS BITCOIN?
Bitcoin is a digital currency that enables instant payments to anyone, anywhere in the world. Bitcoin uses peer-to-peer technology to operate with no central authority: managing transactions and issuing money are carried out collectively by the network. Bitcoins can be easily exchanged to common currencies by several exchange services.
To answer your question, a bitcoin is just data, bits on a computer, 0s and 1s. We talk about Bitcoin the software system, and then bitcoin the currency. One bitcoin currently trades for about $12 USD. One can download the bitcoin client (http://bitcoin.org), install it, and then you'd have a digital bitcoin wallet and access to the Bitcoin network (allow several hours for it to sync up). There is no account to setup.

Here's a nice eBook You Can Learn Bitcoin: http://www.lulu.com/shop/david-r-sterry/you-can-learn-bitcoin/ebook/product-20423608.html
http://www.coindl.com/page/item/391
http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/you-can-learn-bitcoin/id569230042

And here is Scientific American: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=3-years-in-bitcoin-digital-money-gains-momentum

Another fun way to learn is setup an account at Bitmit (http://bitmit.net), the eBay of bitcoin. They give you a bitcoin wallet and anything you sell puts bitcoin (BTC) into your wallet. It's a fairly new site with not a lot of users - good for buyers, maybe not so good for sellers.

Treefarmer
10-14-12, 02:28 AM
Amazing, yes! in many ways. Let me tell you, I have more faith in bitcoin than Federal Reserve money. I trust open-source apps, cryptography, and mathematics more than a central banker.

TREEFARMER: We got caught up here with mining bitcoin, which gets technical; sorry about that. You don't need to mine (generate) bitcoin to use it.

WHAT IS BITCOIN?
To answer your question, a bitcoin is just data, bits on a computer, 0s and 1s. We talk about Bitcoin the software system, and then bitcoin the currency. One bitcoin currently trades for about $12 USD. One can download the bitcoin client (http://bitcoin.org), install it, and then you'd have a digital bitcoin wallet and access to the Bitcoin network (allow several hours for it to sync up). There is no account to setup.

Here's a nice eBook You Can Learn Bitcoin: http://www.lulu.com/shop/david-r-sterry/you-can-learn-bitcoin/ebook/product-20423608.html
http://www.coindl.com/page/item/391
http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/you-can-learn-bitcoin/id569230042

And here is Scientific American: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=3-years-in-bitcoin-digital-money-gains-momentum

Another fun way to learn is setup an account at Bitmit (http://bitmit.net), the eBay of bitcoin. They give you a bitcoin wallet and anything you sell puts bitcoin (BTC) into your wallet. It's a fairly new site with not a lot of users - good for buyers, maybe not so good for sellers.

No need to apologize to me, because I'm the one that specifically asked about the mining.
The ebook Introduction To Bitcoin Mining, found on this website (https://www.coindl.com/page/item/201), answered some of my questions.
According to that ebook, the process of "mining" bitcoins generates computing power which supports the bitcoin network and other software operations of an unspecified nature.

In the Chapter entitled What is Mining? it says:

"Bitcoin is really three things. First it is a protocol (or set of rules)
that defines how the network should operate. Second it is a
software project that implements that protocol. Third it is a network
of computers and devices running software that uses to [sic] protocol to
create and manage the Bitcoin currency.

Mining is defined in the protocol, implemented in software, and is
an essential function in managing the Bitcoin network. Mining
verifies transactions, prevents double-spending, collects transaction
fees and creates the money supply. Mining also protects the
network by piling tons of processing power on top of past
transactions.

Mining verifies transactions by evaluating them against the
transactions that happened before. Transactions cannot spend
bitcoins that do not exist or that were spent before. They must send
bitcoins to valid addresses and adhere to every rule defined by the
protocol.

With a frequency that is targeted at every 10 minutes, mining
creates new blocks from the latest transactions and produces the
amount of bitcoins defined by the current block reward (50 BTC until
late 2012). Miners also verify blocks produced by other miners to
allow the entire network to continue building on the blockchain."

It looks to me like bitcoin mining is a good way to support the computer industry.
It encourages people to buy more computer equipment to support their mining operations, without which it appears that bitcoin would not exist.

Apart from the unusual "mining" process, bitcoin looks like any other token currency to me, which can be exchanged for other useful currency, whose value depends entirely on its perceived usefulness in the minds of the users.

stoneFree
10-29-12, 09:26 PM
Nice find Treefarmer. That mining ebook is somewhat outdated now, FGPA technology has surpassed GPU mining as the most efficient way to mine, and ASIC miners should surpass that once they start shipping (any day now).

The European Central Bank has released this 55-page book: VIRTUAL CURRENCY SCHEMES with case studies on Bitcoin and Second Life (a computer game using "Linden Dollars"):

http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=www.ecb.europa.eu%2Fpub%2Fpdf%2Fother%2 Fvirtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf

Noah
11-12-12, 07:38 PM
I am looking at this with interest...

However, Michael Parsons, a former executive with Emirates Bank (Dubai), Moscow Narodny Bank, and KPMG Moscow, believes that those efforts will prove futile and he explains, "Bitcoin is 'regulated' by its peers and mathematics. And Bitcoin is not a currency like fiat money. It is a value transfer system which is given value only by its users. So the ECB, FED, etc. have no mandate to control a 'virtual currency' just because they call it (bitcoin) that! It will just go underground. Bitcoin is like Light and Air. Free to use and transfer. Owned and issued by the people and NOT the State!"

It evokes an image of central bankers huddled comfortably on the safe shoreline as they look out into the horizon and see the dangerous, unstable virtual currencies approaching. The opposite is actually the truth because it is the central bankers who are floating precipitously out at sea. As James Turk famously said about bitcoin's analog cousin, "When standing in a boat and looking at the shore, it is the boat (currencies) - and not the land (gold) - that is bobbing up and down."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/11/03/ecb-roots-of-bitcoin-can-be-found-in-the-austrian-school-of-economics/

stoneFree
01-31-13, 09:50 PM
BREAKING NEWS:
Jeff Garzik has just received the first ASIC mining computer to hit the consumer market, and has confirmed on Bitcoin IRC that the machine functions as expected. http://bitcoinmagazine.com/working-avalon-asic-confirmed/
68GH per second! ASIC refers to the new IC technology, a chip specifically designed to mine bitcoin at a rate approximately 20 times faster than the previous generation FPGA chips. What does this mean? It means Jeff's ASIC miner will earn over $200 per day; the box will pay for itself in about a week. With 2 companies (Avalon & BFL) putting up big money for a custom chip-run, it means bitcoin is becoming mainstream - a serious currency - a real alternative to central bank fiat-fraud debt-as-money (a/k/a FEDERAL RESERVE notes).

Before you get $ signs in your eyes ... realize that Avalon is producing only small batches of a few hundred units and the first batch sold out in 20 minutes. Butterfly Labs appears poised to ship in larger quantities, but they haven't received chip yets; if you order a BFL ASIC unit today it will likely ship about May when difficulty will likely be much higher (smaller profit), and who knows where the value of bitcoin will be. One Bitcoin currently trades for about $20 USD.

walter
04-10-13, 06:27 PM
Bitcoin Should Get Ready for an Attack

http://oneradionetwork.com/latest/bitcoin-should-get-ready-for-an-attack-articl/

stoneFree
04-10-13, 09:24 PM
Great article; thanks. Here's the original: http://www.freemansperspective.com/bitcoin-should-get-ready-for-an-attack/

We've already seen DDoS attacks on many BTC-related sites yet bitcoin keeps chuggin' along. The banking cartel is getting hit from all sides now - a beautiful thing to behold. I don't think they'll make it more than a month.

Thank you all!

stoneFree
04-22-13, 09:29 PM
bitcoin on TV news this morning:

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/mostpopular/story/Clark-Howard-Bitcoin/cPM1uQw8hEaNvD728kTlRQ.cspx

fishnet
05-16-13, 12:01 AM
United States Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent signs affidavit for Warrant against Mt Gox, worlds largest bitcoin exchange. Mt Gox's U.S. bank account seized.

I wonder if Mt. Gox were trading in lawful money, instead of Federal Reserve Notes, what would be the outcome.

The U.S. bank account I use that is linked to Mt. Gox has demand for lawful money verbiage on the signature card.

Seizure Warrant here (http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mt-Gox-Dwolla-Warrant-5-14-13.pdf).

David Merrill
05-16-13, 12:18 AM
Good question! I am glad you know about redeeming lawful money.

Thank you for the link. I do not find the case on PACER yet.

Treefarmer
05-18-13, 02:51 AM
This is what jimstone freelance has got on the subject.
(Link here)
(http://jimstonefreelance.com/)

Re-posted from Jim Stone's website:

I have checked up on MtGox a few times and the formal statement regarding the account seizure has been removed with nothing replacing it, and everything appears to be normal. It may have been real, but I think they dealt with it, and I also figured out it was an ambush.

The case was based around the fact that MtGox had a bank account that was not registered for international "money exchanges". At the time this account was set up, Bitcoin was not considered by TPTB to be a currency, so setting up the type of bank account MtGox had was perfectly legitimate. Once Canada delcared bitcoin to be a taxable currency, the U.S. hopped on it and instantly took action against MtGox for having an illigitimate account. This is of course how tyranny functions, it will do background investigations to find ways to make people in violation of the law just because the tyranny tweaked a law somewhere, when all intention on the part of the victim was above board. So it looks to me like MtGox handled this technicality and all is well, as usual they are up and running, and bitcoin is perfectly stable.

Is MtGox seizure a silly internet rumor?

MtGox is up and running just fine, and knows nothing about a court order. They have issued a statement, which follows:

Statement Regarding DHS court Order
. TOKYO - JAPAN - May 15, 2013

MtGox has read on the Internet that the United States Department of Homeland Security had a court order and/or warrant issued from the United States District Court in Maryland which it served upon the Dwolla mobile payment service with respect to accounts used for trading with MtGox. MtGox takes this information seriously. However, as of this time MtGox has not been provided with a copy of the court order and/or warrant and does not know its scope and/or the reasons for its issuance. MtGox is investigating and will provide further reports when additional information becomes known.

Regards

Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.

You can go directly to this announcement HERE

Note to MtGox: They have a 15 day window to seize the account according to the court document. So drain the account and be done with it. If this is legit, someone who cared about you published something that was supposed to be kept secret with the seizure being an ambush
This live bitcoin chart, which updates instantly shows that MtGox is up and running just fine and serves as a secondary verification that MtGox really is doing OK
In addition to this, bitcoins have taken absolutely no downward hit in value, which proves the currency is indeed stable and does not need mtgox to survive. However, if mtgox is taken down it would be tragic because mtgox handles over 70 percent of all bitcoin traffic. Others would be there as a backup if this internet rumor happens to be true, but at this point I think it could all be hearsay.

UPDATE:
I read the court order, and if it is real it won´t affect MtGox anyway unless he is staffed by idiots. He can just open a different account and put the funds there. The court order as written gives an agent 14 days to sieze the account in question, and if MtGox did not drain that account SECOND ONE of hearing this news they are idiots. It is a matter of a bank account, not MtGox itself, and they were nailed on a technicality and not anything substantial. So don't be expecting MtGox to go anywhere, they will not, they will simply continue as is with a different account even if that account has to be opened in a friendlier nation - America is NOT the place to try to survive freedom.

It is entirely possible that the papers are indeed legit, but that they got leaked by someone in the court system that disagreed with them and wanted to warn MtGox before anything happened. Usually these are issued and kept silent until action is taken, but if that action is not taken before the holder of the account takes action to save it, there is little the agent can do once he enters the scene late other than to sieze an empty account that is not worth it´s space on a hard drive.

If that be the case, MtGox will not suffer from this AT ALL. (http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/)

David Merrill
05-18-13, 01:35 PM
That explains nothing on PACER! Thank you Treefarmer.

Treefarmer
05-22-13, 02:31 AM
I like what Paul Rosenberg said on Free-Man's Perspective dot com (http://www.freemansperspective.com/bitcoin-tyranny-test/):

The following is a copy and paste of the article:

Bitcoin: The Tyranny Test
FREEMANSPERSPECTIVE · May 20th, 2013

An increasing number of people have complained about governments and central banks in recent years, even using the word “tyranny” to describe them. They are, of course, called names in the establishment press: conspiracy theorists, mainly.

Calling someone a name, however, does not erase their argument (at least not among rational people) and both the governments and the big banks stand accused.

Up till now, however, these accusations were never accepted by the general public. The average guy really didn’t want to hear about the evils of government money. After all, that was the only thing he had ever used to buy food, clothes, gasoline, cars, and so on. He didn’t want to acknowledge the accusations because he feared what might happen to him without his usual money.

Now, however, we have a brand new currency (called Bitcoin) available to us: something radically different. This gives us a new way to directly address the subject of monetary tyranny, providing a clear test for the governments and money masters of the world:

If they are truly NOT tyrannical, they will leave this new currency alone.
If they ARE tyrannical, they will attack the new currency because it eats into their scam.
In other words, Bitcoin is a test for “the powers that be.” The way they deal with this new method of exchange will reveal their true nature.
If they ignore Bitcoin, they refute the charges of tyranny. If they attack it, they verify those charges.

After all, what honest reason could there be to attack an inherently peaceful tool for transferring value?

Prospective Reasons

Reasons to attack Bitcoin have recently appeared in the “public square.” Here are the three most popular ones, each followed with some analysis:

It can be used for money laundering.

Of course it can be used for money laundering — ANY currency can be used for money laundering. Currencies are neutral — that is their purpose! Currencies are valuable precisely because they can be exchanged for anything else — that’s why we use them!

Moreover, dollars and Euros and Pounds are used for money laundering every day. Consider the recent money laundering crimes of HSBC and Wachovia/Wells Fargo. These banks laundered hundreds of billions of dollars for violent drug cartels. And consider that this amount of laundered money is several hundred times the value of every Bitcoin in existence.

No one from either bank went to jail. Neither bank was shut down. Neither bank suffered more than a minor fine. So, how much of a concern can money laundering really be to governments and banks? Clearly not much.

But, since they accuse Bitcoin of being used for bad things, let’s be clear about the situation:

Every mafioso uses government money.
Every drug smuggler uses government money.
Every terrorist uses government money.
Every pornographer uses government money.
Every criminal of every type uses government money.

They also use the telephone system and the mail and banks and a wide variety of government services. But government money is good and Bitcoin is bad?

The argument fails.

It could destabilize the current system.

A tiny, new currency is a threat to the long-established king of the hill? Comparing Bitcoin to dollars, Euros and Yen is like comparing an ant to a dinosaur. This is a threat?

Please understand also that no one is forcing anyone to use Bitcoin. If you don’t think it’s a great idea, you don’t have to use it. If its price movements (relative to dollars) bother you, you don’t have to use it. How is that destabilizing to the current system? It is entirely separate.

And what of the current system? It was falling apart on its own before the Bitcoin program was ever written. And I could go on at length on the insane levels of government debt, hundreds of trillions in derivatives, rehypothecation, and innocent people being forced to bail-out failed banks.

The current system has massive problems, but none of them can be blamed on Bitcoin.

This argument fails also.

Bitcoin provides no customer protection.

Well, no, it doesn’t. Bitcoin is a currency, not a legal system.

What is implied by this argument is that the government banking system does protect customers. That is an outright lie. People are ripped-off via the banking system every day. And more than that, consider what happened just a month ago in Cyprus: Thousands of innocent people were ripped-off BY the banking system — purposely — all at once and without recourse. This argument is, really, an insult to one’s intelligence.

And I should add something else: If Bitcoin is used properly, the crime of identity theft (a big problem with government money) vanishes – there is no identity available to be stolen.

So, again, the argument fails. Only those people who believe anything a government says will buy it.

In the End

In the end, it is said, we judge ourselves. Bitcoin has now put governments and banks in the position of judging themselves. They will write their own verdicts.

It should be interesting to watch.

Paul Rosenberg
FreemansPerspective.com

walter
05-26-13, 08:01 PM
http://innovatedeconomy.com/uncategorized/the-bitcoin-network-is-more-powerful-than-the-top-500-supercomputers-combined.html?__lsa=646d-4771

The bitcoin network is more powerful than the top 500 supercomputers combined

Add up the combined computing power of the 500 fastest supercomputers in the world—that’s billions upon billions of dollars worth of hardware—and stack it up against to the raw processing power of every computer currently producing the alternative currency bitcoin, and what do you get?

The network of computers “mining” bitcoin is more powerful—eight times more powerful, in fact.

And that’s not all: The bitcoin network also qualifies as the world’s first exascale computer, meaning it’s capable of a quintillion floating point calculations per second. Some people argue that exascale computing will make possible everything from predicting the effects of climate change to producing energy with fusion. Supercomputers aren’t expected to achieve that speed until sometime around 2020.

However, bitcoin mining is distributed among the multitude of machines that devote computing power to the network, helping to solve cryptographic puzzles every 10 minutes, for which they are sometimes rewarded with new bitcoins. And the bitcoin network has become so specialized that much of it cannot be used for any other purpose. So what bitcoin has wrought is the world’s fastest supercomputer that can only be used to mine bitcoin.

Add this to the $150,000 a day bitcoin miners are collectively spending on electricity to produce about half a million dollars worth of bitcoin, and the scale of the computing resources currently devoted to producing the virtual currency really comes into perspective.

EZrhythm
05-28-13, 08:10 PM
U.S. Shuts Currency Exchange Allegedly Tied To $6B In Money Launderinghttp://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/05/28/u-s-authorities-close-another-digital-currency-exchange/

stoneFree
06-02-13, 06:26 PM
Bitcoin makes Liberty Reserve look quaint – as unlike the alleged money launderer, Bitcoin is decentralised. There's no single company or entity controlling the currency, and so it's nearly impossible to shut down.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/30/bitcoin-beyond-reach-of-government

walter
08-11-13, 03:47 PM
Federal Court Rules That the Bitcoin Is Money



When the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) charged Trendon Shavers, the founder of Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST) with running a Ponzi scheme, Shavers challenged the agency by claiming that bitcoins didn’t fall under their definition of securities and so therefore he and his company were exempt from SEC rules. Federal Judge Amos Mazzant ruled otherwise, which was bad news for Shavers but good news for bitcoin owners who have been using the digital currency as money ever since it was invented in 2009. Said the court:

It is clear that Bitcoin can be used as money. It can be used to purchase goods or services, and as Shavers stated, used to pay for individual living expenses. The only limitation of Bitcoin is that it is limited to those places that accept it as currency. However, it can also be exchanged for conventional currencies, such as the U.S. dollar, Euro, Yen, and Yuan.

Therefore, Bitcoin is a currency or form of money, and investors wishing to invest in BTCST provided an investment of money.

The development of the so-called cryptocurrency caught the attention of freedom lovers and others increasingly nervous about governmental invasions of privacy into their financial transactions and thought that the bitcoin — traded anonymously on the Internet — would circumvent those incursions. It also was outside the realm of central banks around the world and the present fiat currencies being manipulated by them. It would, when fully developed, provide security, privacy and liquidity.

Its history has been bumpy. The value of a bitcoin was first negotiated through online forums and some transactions were compromised by hackers and thieves. Some investors lost thousands — even hundreds of thousands — of dollars. With the passage of time, however, the glitches began to be worked out, and the bitcoin gained credibility and even prominence. By October 2012, one single bitcoin exchange, BitPay, reported having more than 1,000 merchants accepting bitcoins under its processing service. Another processor announced in February 2013 that it processed more than $20 million in transactions in a single month.

At the height of the Cyprus banking crisis, investors were seeking safe havens to avoid having their savings confiscated and some of them bid up the price of the bitcoin to unsustainable levels, touching $266 a piece before dropping to $76 (and then returning to $160) in a single day. The present value of a bitcoin is a little over $100.

As the bitcoin gained more credibility so did attacks on it from predictable establishment sources, such as economist Paul Krugman, who called bitcoin “The Anti-Social Network,” adding that “Bitcoins … derive their value, if any, purely from self-fulfilling prophecy, the belief that other people will accept them as payment.” Just like Federal Reserve Notes.

Others, however, took a more reasoned view and began to explore, and accept, the bitcoin as money. The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), for instance, announced in May that it would be glad to accept bitcoin donations, with this disclaimer:

While we are accepting Bitcoin donations, EFF is not endorsing Bitcoin. EFF does not typically endorse products or services, and we certainly do not endorse any of the [other] electronic payment methods that we currently accept (credit cards, PayPal, and now BitPay).

With respect to Bitcoin as a technology, there is clearly a lot more to be said. Currently it seems that Bitcoin, while innovative, has a number of limitations and weaknesses in its design, and might yet turn out to be just the first draft for future crypto-currencies.

However, as an organization that supports cryptographic experimentation, we believe the best answer to Bitcoin’s potential shortcomings is for others to come along and offer superior alternatives.

One of bitcoin’s limitations is that it isn’t nearly as private and safe from prying eyes as its users would like. Said EFF: “Bitcoin is very often not anonymous in the ways users might believe or expect, because the network doesn’t actively conceal the IP addresses from which transactions were initiated.” But it added that it was willing to accept bitcoins as an expression of its commitment to freedom and privacy, expressing hope that future improvements would be coming:

The fact that Bitcoin is subject to criticism should not be surprising; it would have been much more surprising if the first widely used cryptographic currency had been perfect, and very active research continues on ways of improving Bitcoin or creating new crypto-currencies with other properties.

One of those improvements was announced by Andy Greenberg in Forbes magazine in April: the “Zerocoin Add-on,” which would make transactions in bitcoins truly anonymous and untraceable. Wrote Greenberg:

If adopted by enough of the Bitcoin network, Zerocoin’s inventors believe it could become a fundamental upgrade to Bitcoin’s code, integrating itself into the currency and solving what many see as serious privacy flaws in Bitcoin’s current implementation.

Serious money is being drawn into the development of bitcoin. Winklevoss Capital invested more than $10 million in bitcoins back in April, followed by venture capitalist Andreessen Horowitz and Exante, a hedge fund out of Malta.

The dream of freedom and privacy continues to drive innovation for a digital currency that is beyond the reach of government snoops and spies and central bank manipulation. Bitcoin is just the first iteration. Now that it has officially received sanction from a federal court, the bitcoin’s road to legitimacy and acceptance is brighter and clearer than ever.

A graduate of Cornell University and a former investment advisor, Bob is a regular contributor to The New American magazine and blogs frequently at www.LightFromTheRight.com, primarily on economics and politics. He can be reached at badelmann@thenewamerican.com

Chex
02-25-14, 03:24 PM
The reviews are getting more shabbier.

TOKYO (Reuters) - Mt. Gox, once the world's biggest bitcoin exchange, looked to have essentially disappeared on Tuesday, with its website down, its founder unaccounted for and a Tokyo office empty bar a handful of protesters saying they had lost money investing in the virtual currency. http://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox-39-website-down-053727771--sector.html

stoneFree
02-26-14, 04:35 AM
Mt. Gox had been dying a slow death for years. Feel for those who are out money but most in the bitcoin community knew it was a troubled exchange, avoided it, and are now glad this drag is behind us. Notice there will be no taxpayer-funded bailouts (bail-ins) of MtGox; nor should there be.

And look at this... bitcoin ATM comes to old man Pottapaug's home state:
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2014/02/20/liberty-teller-bitcoin-atm-boston/

walter
03-06-14, 06:34 PM
Bitcoin-exchange CEO found dead
The American CEO of a virtual-currency exchange was found lying motionless near the Singapore apartment tower where she lived.
http://www.thestar.com/business/2014/03/06/bitcoinexchange_ceo_found_dead.html
SINGAPORE—The CEO of a virtual-currency exchange was found dead near her home in Singapore.

A police spokesman said Thursday that initial investigations indicated there was no suspicion of “foul play” in the Feb. 26 death, meaning officers do not suspect murder.

The spokesman said police found 28-year-old Autumn Radtke, an American, lying motionless near the apartment tower where she lived.

Police have so far classified the death as “unnatural,” which can mean an accident, misadventure, or suicide.

Radtke’s company, First Meta, said it was “shocked and saddened by the tragic loss.”

First Meta allows users of virtual currencies such as bitcoin to trade and cash out the currencies. It is one of several such exchanges.

The future of bitcoin has been under scrutiny since the collapse of the Mt. Gox exchange in Tokyo last month.

Radtke had worked at other tech companies.

Postings on her Facebook page showed her to be a believer in the potential of virtual currencies.

Last month she linked to an article on entrepreneurs suffering depression, commenting above the link: everything has its price.

stoneFree
03-06-14, 08:13 PM
According to Newsweek the reclusive inventor of the virtual commodity has been hiding in plain sight.


The Face Behind Bitcoin
Satoshi Nakamoto stands at the end of his sunbaked driveway looking timorous. And annoyed.

He's wearing a rumpled T-shirt, old blue jeans and white gym socks, without shoes, like he has left the house in a hurry. His hair is unkempt, and he has the thousand-mile stare of someone who has gone weeks without sleep.

He stands not with defiance, but with the slackness of a person who has waged battle for a long time and now faces a grave loss.

Two police officers from the Temple City, Calif., sheriff's department flank him, looking puzzled. "So, what is it you want to ask this man about?" one of them asks me. "He thinks if he talks to you he's going to get into trouble."

"I don't think he's in any trouble," I say. "I would like to ask him about Bitcoin. This man is Satoshi Nakamoto."

"What?" The police officer balks. "This is the guy who created Bitcoin? It looks like he's living a pretty humble life."
...
http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto.html

Keyser Soze
03-25-14, 09:42 PM
Hope this thread is appropriate for this post. Thoughts?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-25/irs-rules-bitcoin-property-not-currency

Anthony Joseph
03-25-14, 09:59 PM
Hope this thread is appropriate for this post. Thoughts?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-25/irs-rules-bitcoin-property-not-currency

Take a wild guess why 'IRS' waited this long to "rule" bitcoin is property and not currency. Did 'IRS' not realize this in 2009? (Hint: when the "property" could be taken as "a loss")

stoneFree
03-04-15, 02:06 PM
Keep an eye on the price of bitcoin. Although it has come down significantly from over $1,000/coin to below $250/coin it now seems to be gaining support, closing higher the past 5 days in a row.
Along with lawful money it looks like bitcoin might be the first "solution to the problem" that comes out of the gate. Not trading advice mind you... just a hunch.
http://www.coindesk.com/price

I call bitcoin one of the "solutions to the problem" because it will be one of the many alternates that can be used after the destruction of the current un-backed fiat monetary system. Silver, in my opinion, will be the best solution but gold, bitcoin and others will be used as well.

Whether or not you believe in Bitcoin matters not. There are enough people, infrastructure and money sunk into bitcoin it will function on it's own from here on out... without all the non-believers ever buying into it. There are too many tech savvy BILLIONAIRES involved with Bitcoin for it to go away. There is more money being sunk into bitcoin's infrastructure than currently in the market cap of the cryptocurrency itself. That is part of the plan and it will unfold to greater acceptance as the unbacked fiat system fails.

One day soon, you will see bitcoin fly past that old high of $1,000 per coin and never look back.

shikamaru
03-04-15, 10:24 PM
Keep an eye on the price of bitcoin. Although it has come down significantly from over $1,000/coin to below $250/coin it now seems to be gaining support, closing higher the past 5 days in a row.
Along with lawful money it looks like bitcoin might be the first "solution to the problem" that comes out of the gate. Not trading advice mind you... just a hunch.
http://www.coindesk.com/price

I call bitcoin one of the "solutions to the problem" because it will be one of the many alternates that can be used after the destruction of the current un-backed fiat monetary system. Silver, in my opinion, will be the best solution but gold, bitcoin and others will be used as well.

Whether or not you believe in Bitcoin matters not. There are enough people, infrastructure and money sunk into bitcoin it will function on it's own from here on out... without all the non-believers ever buying into it. There are too many tech savvy BILLIONAIRES involved with Bitcoin for it to go away. There is more money being sunk into bitcoin's infrastructure than currently in the market cap of the cryptocurrency itself. That is part of the plan and it will unfold to greater acceptance as the unbacked fiat system fails.

One day soon, you will see bitcoin fly past that old high of $1,000 per coin and never look back.

It matters not the form of currency whether commodity, digital, or fiat.

What ultimately matters is which side of the ledger you are on.
Value always goes somewhere.

pumpkin
03-05-15, 03:48 PM
Gold and silver coin is the only answer. ALL the rest will be manipulated.

Chex
03-05-15, 04:00 PM
Gold and silver coin is the only answer. ALL the rest will be manipulated.
It matters not the form of currency whether commodity, digital, or fiat. What ultimately matters is which side of the ledger you are on.Value always goes somewhere.

Thank you well spoken.

shikamaru
03-05-15, 09:50 PM
Gold and silver coin is the only answer. ALL the rest will be manipulated.

Specie was not debased throughout history?
Specie did not suffer market fluctuations whether of monetary supply, arbitrage, or of competing interests?
The coin of the realm belonged to the general public or the sovereign throughout history?

edward222
04-27-15, 07:13 AM
Bitcoin is now taxable,
anyone head about it?

Brian
04-27-15, 05:03 PM
Bitcoin is now taxable,
anyone head about it?

Of course it is. Per: Veazie Bank v. Fenno, 75 U.S. 533 (1869)

"It cannot be doubted that under the Constitution the power to provide a circulation of coin is given to Congress. And it is settled by the uniform practice of the government and by repeated decisions, that Congress may constitutionally authorize the emission of bills of credit. ... Having thus, in the exercise of undisputed constitutional powers, undertaken to provide a currency for the whole country, it cannot be questioned that Congress may, constitutionally, secure the benefit of it to the people by appropriate legislation. To this end, Congress has denied the quality of legal tender to foreign coins, and has provided by law against the imposition of counterfeit and base coin on the community. To the same end, Congress may restrain (TAX), by suitable enactments (Title 26), the circulation as money of any notes (OR other forms of money) not issued under its own authority. Without this power, indeed, its attempts to secure a sound and uniform currency for the country must be futile."