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View Full Version : How DO I open a bank account that is not attached to any SS number or State ID?



jesus victor
11-07-12, 08:36 PM
I want to open a bank account that has no link to a SS number and or state ID. Does anyone here know how to do that? I have been redeeming lawful money with my non endorsement for awhile now on a business account. I want to open a personal account now and want to keep it separate from any SS #. Any help is much appreciated.

Jesus Victor

David Merrill
11-07-12, 11:12 PM
I do not think that is possible.

If you want to give it a go please carry an audio recorder, or even one of those pen video cameras. Carry your cash in and tell the customer service rep that you have no SSN.

I recall years ago I heard that banking software would allow no SSN by entering 99999's. That would get you through that screen and to the next screen with the County field. The rep would key upward and find USA or United States of America rather than US or United States and then be able to delete the 999999's and proceed. It was probably a patriot myth.



P.S. Welcome and [I]cool name!

jesus victor
11-08-12, 01:57 AM
So if they do not do it, then I would open a regular account and then make sure to sign my card with "12 USC 411". Correct?

Jesus Victor

EZrhythm
11-08-12, 04:31 AM
This is what I have experienced- The bank will ask for an SS# to which you may show but basically the W-9 form is what gives consent for the banks to share account info with the IRS. You may decline to sign the W-9 and in exchange they will tell you that your account cannot earn interest. No problem! After having the account for a time the bank will send a W-9 form in the mail to which it may be ignored.

Jethro
11-08-12, 01:47 PM
I was added as a signor to an existing account without a SSN. They fussed a bit about it, and had to go up the chain to get the ok, which came through no problem. But even then they had to "threaten" that the "system" might "automatically close the account". That was several years ago and I've had no problems.

I'm about to begin a similar endeavor to open an individual account without a number or a driver license/passport. Instead of that "ID" I will identify myself on my terms via the affidavit of identity I have made public notice. W-9's are for "U.S. persons" and therefore not applicable to me; I'll likely furnish an alternative W-8BEN (for nonresident aliens). I also intend to add verbiage to the effect that all transactions related to the account shall be in lawful money, and that it is agreed the body of law that calls itself "Internal Revenue Code" does not apply. We'll see if it's still America in relation to banks.

David Merrill
11-08-12, 02:43 PM
So if they do not do it, then I would open a regular account and then make sure to sign my card with "12 USC 411". Correct?
Jesus Victor

Yes and demand Redeemed Lawful Money on all transactions.


This is what I have experienced- The bank will ask for an SS# to which you may show but basically the W-9 form is what gives consent for the banks to share account info with the IRS. You may decline to sign the W-9 and in exchange they will tell you that your account cannot earn interest. No problem! After having the account for a time the bank will send a W-9 form in the mail to which it may be ignored.

That is where I was going too EZ.

Since you are depriving consent to lend fractionally on your funds the bank is getting no benefit from your funds. I believe we described it legally as Special Deposit. They are just holding your money and have to hold it separate from the endorsers' funds. So do not expect that they have to pay you interest for no benefit.




I was added as a signor to an existing account without a SSN. They fussed a bit about it, and had to go up the chain to get the ok, which came through no problem. But even then they had to "threaten" that the "system" might "automatically close the account". That was several years ago and I've had no problems.

I'm about to begin a similar endeavor to open an individual account without a number or a driver license/passport. Instead of that "ID" I will identify myself on my terms via the affidavit of identity I have made public notice. W-9's are for "U.S. persons" and therefore not applicable to me; I'll likely furnish an alternative W-8BEN (for nonresident aliens). I also intend to add verbiage to the effect that all transactions related to the account shall be in lawful money, and that it is agreed the body of law that calls itself "Internal Revenue Code" does not apply. We'll see if it's still America in relation to banks.


That is great! I suggest that you supplement your ID with a Certificate of Search from the USDC.

Here is an example:




http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_certificate_corrected.jpg

Jethro
11-09-12, 05:14 PM
Thanks, David. Although a similar search for me would likely turn up a record of a civil case, though I won that case.

How would that benefit me?

allodial
11-09-12, 06:32 PM
Perhaps the State/County/City treasurer nearest you provides some kind of banking services? Also folks are apparently able to open accounts with Matricula Consulars and WSA Passports. Perhaps consider a banking passport?

jesus victor
11-09-12, 11:43 PM
Thanks for the insight. I will let you all know how it goes next week.

David Merrill
11-10-12, 12:21 AM
Thanks, David. Although a similar search for me would likely turn up a record of a civil case, though I won that case.

How would that benefit me?

The objective is in relation to a Libel of Review. The judgment is a true judgment because the presenter is making a claim without filing first in the district courts of the US. So even if it shows a civil suit there is no cause for the presentment to be binding in law, which sets up the default judgment and lays grounds for successful Refusals for Cause.

steel_g
11-10-12, 03:18 AM
Yes and demand Redeemed Lawful Money on all transactions.



I suggest that you supplement your ID with a Certificate of Search from the USDC.
]

What other types of searches are available from the clerk? I didn't know clerks offered this type of service i.e. criminal records etc.

LearnTheLaw
11-30-12, 09:00 PM
I do not think that is possible.

If you want to give it a go please carry an audio recorder, or even one of those pen video cameras. Carry your cash in and tell the customer service rep that you have no SSN.

I recall years ago I heard that banking software would allow no SSN by entering 99999's. That would get you through that screen and to the next screen with the County field. The rep would key upward and find USA or United States of America rather than US or United States and then be able to delete the 999999's and proceed. It was probably a patriot myth.



P.S. Welcome and [I]cool name!



It is possible to open an account without a SSN.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<SNIP>

Fortunately, the federal government's presumption about you is also rebuttable. Why? Because the feds are guilty of fraud, among other reasons, by not disclosing the nature of the bankruptcy which they are using to envelope the American people, like an octopus with a suction tentacle in everybody's wallet, adults and children alike. The banks became unwitting parties to this fraud because the Congress has obtained a controlling interest in the banks through the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and their traffic in Federal Reserve Notes and other commercial paper issued by the Federal Reserve banks, with the help of their agent, the private Treasury Department. For further details, read "Return to Constitutional Money" by Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr., in the Supreme Law Library on the Internet.

Because this fraud can attach to bank accounts without your knowledge or consent, it is generally a good idea to notify your bank(s), in writing, that the IRS cannot inspect any of your bank records unless you have specifically authorized such inspections by executing IRS Form 6014. The IRS Printed Products Catalog describes this form as follows:

6014 -- 42996R -- (Each)

Authorization ?? Access to Third Party Records for Internal Revenue Service Employees

Authorization from Taxpayer to third party for IRS employees to examine records. Re-numbered as a 4-digit form from Letter 995(DO) (7/77). Changes suggested per IRM Section 4082.1 to help secure the correct information from the third party. EX : E : D Tax Related Public Use

[IRS Printed Product Catalog]
[Document 7130, Rev. 6-89, p. 49]

Make explicit reference to this Form in a routine letter to your bank(s). Inform the appropriate bank officers that they must have a completed Form 6014 on file, with your authorized signature, before they can legally allow any IRS employees to examine your records. Then state, discretely, that you hereby reserve your fundamental right to withhold your authorized signature from Form 6014, because it might otherwise constitute a waiver of your 4th Amendment Rights, and no agency of government can compel you to waive any of your fundamental Rights such as those explicitly guaranteed by the 4th Amendment in the Constitution for the United States of America. (Banks are chartered by the States in which they do business, and as such they are "agencies" of State government.)

For good measure, you might also cite pertinent sections in your State Constitution, particularly where it mandates that the U.S. Constitution is the supreme Law of the Land, as it does in the California Constitution of 1879. Finally, you may wish to state that Form 6014 is not applicable to you anyway, because you are not a "Taxpayer" as that term is defined by Section 7701(a)(14) of the Internal Revenue Code. Therefore, the bank is simply not authorized to release information about you to IRS employees, period!

<SNIP>


The law of presumption:
http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/htm/chapter9.htm

EZrhythm
12-01-12, 12:04 AM
EXCELLENT POST! Although that info doesn't provide what one needs to get by the bank requiring an SSN before they will open an account.

shikamaru
12-01-12, 01:07 AM
EXCELLENT POST! Although that info doesn't provide what one needs to get by the bank requiring an SSN before they will open an account.

Can't you open a non-interest bearing account without an SSN?

David Merrill
12-01-12, 09:49 AM
Can't you open a non-interest bearing account without an SSN?


I think I know where to ask that question!

I have seen a forum for bankers to discuss such questions. There is also a segment of the forum for non-bankers to ask questions of bankers.

Try:

http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1695080


Please start a new thread to keep us informed should your excursions become interesting?

shikamaru
12-01-12, 10:57 AM
I think I know where to ask that question!

I have seen a forum for bankers to discuss such questions. There is also a segment of the forum for non-bankers to ask questions of bankers.

Try:

http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1695080


Please start a new thread to keep us informed should your excursions become interesting?

My thought is that the SSN is required for any interest that may accumulate in an account for IRS filing requirements.

If the account is non-interest bearing, what is there to report for income ?

David Merrill
12-01-12, 01:41 PM
What other types of searches are available from the clerk? I didn't know clerks offered this type of service i.e. criminal records etc.


It is not a criminal records search. You can get one of those for $150 from any Private Investigator. It is a records search and you can get one for free over the phone but you pay $25 or so for one on paper.



P.S. You might explore about bank accounts here:

http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1695080

Keith Alan
12-01-12, 02:26 PM
I found the following...

I recently tried to open a bank account with my local bank , and when they asked for a SSN, I informed them that I didn't have one. They flatly refused and said that without a SSN that they absolutely could NOT open an account of any kind. I then proceeded thus to convince them that they were in the wrong: 1) I informed them that I had terminated my SSN legally in accordance with 20 CFR 3 A7 404.1905 and 2) I informed them that the bank could not be held legally responsible by anyone for failing to obtain a SSN from me pursuant to 31 CFR 103.34(a)(1) and 3) I informed them that under the Internal Revenue Code Section 6041, that they were not even required to provide any taxpayer identification numbers on the Form 1099 that they file with the IRS at the end of the year, and 4) I informed them that pursuant to 26 CFR 301.6109-1(c) that they were under no legal obligation to obtain a SSN from me, and 5) I informed them that 42 USC 408 makes it a FELONY to use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner. After a brief meeting with the banks controller and legal counsel, I received a phone call stating that I would be allowed to open a checking account. Please pass this information along to your readers, in hopes that it may help someone else who may find themselves in this situation.

link deleted

I realize most folks here probably already know this information, but it was presented so succinctly I thought it might benefit someone.

PS - Also, I'm wondering what some of you might think about these PDF's:
http://web.nossn.com/specvest/nossn.nsf/b896852a62036d1e852568f0001d68fc/f8ff5578214e6285852568f6000157a0/$FILE/bank_not.pdf

http://web.nossn.com/specvest/nossn.nsf/b896852a62036d1e852568f0001d68fc/f8ff5578214e6285852568f6000157a0/$FILE/con-not.pdf

Brian
12-01-12, 06:37 PM
It is not a criminal records search. You can get one of those for $150 from any Private Investigator. It is a records search and you can get one for free over the phone but you pay $25 or so for one on paper.



P.S. You might explore about bank accounts here:

http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1695080

Interesting David.....seems we are just batshit crazy to these folks.

"Nut case. Close his account and send him on his way. These section 411 people are nothing but trouble."

David...have you had any further info from you banker friend who implemented remedy successfully?

walter
12-01-12, 07:11 PM
Can't you open a non-interest bearing account without an SSN?

yes you can,
a SSN is only need for capital gains,
no interest no gains,

i have opened bank accounts with no SSN, in canada they are called SIN, (mark of the beast or what?)
and they were interest being,

when the lady asked for my SIN i said i don't remember it and i will phone it in to you, never did and it was never a problem,

also i used home made ID with the bank,
the reason banks ask for ID is to protect your account from unauthorized access,
and the bank has a list of ID they can us,
so when you open an account all you have to do is say for security reasons i will only be using this ID to verify who's account it is, have the bank put your home made ID into the record as the ID that will be used and you off to the races,

i still had some tellers asking me if i have any other ID and i say NO,
and then they drop the subject,

salsero
02-05-13, 08:16 PM
May I ask which bank you went to and in what state? I tried Wells Fargo and BBT in Florida and both said no.

salsero
02-05-13, 08:20 PM
May I ask what bank you went to and in which state? I tried Wells Fargo and BBT in Florida and it was a no go.

following...

I recently tried to open a bank account with my local bank , and when they asked for a SSN, I informed them that I didn't have one. They flatly refused and said that without a SSN that they absolutely could NOT open an account of any kind. I then proceeded thus to convince them that they were in the wrong: 1) I informed them that I had terminated my SSN legally in accordance with 20 CFR 3 A7 404.1905 and 2) I informed them that the bank could not be held legally responsible by anyone for failing to obtain a SSN from me pursuant to 31 CFR 103.34(a)(1) and 3) I informed them that under the Internal Revenue Code Section 6041, that they were not even required to provide any taxpayer identification numbers on the Form 1099 that they file with the IRS at the end of the year, and 4) I informed them that pursuant to 26 CFR 301.6109-1(c) that they were under no legal obligation to obtain a SSN from me, and 5) I informed them that 42 USC 408 makes it a FELONY to use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner. After a brief meeting with the banks controller and legal counsel, I received a phone call stating that I would be allowed to open a checking account. Please pass this information along to your readers, in hopes that it may help someone else who may find themselves in this situation.

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Victories/bank_ssn.htm

I realize most folks here probably already know this information, but it was presented so succinctly I thought it might benefit someone.

PS - Also, I'm wondering what some of you might think about these PDF's:
http://web.nossn.com/specvest/nossn.nsf/b896852a62036d1e852568f0001d68fc/f8ff5578214e6285852568f6000157a0/$FILE/bank_not.pdf

http://web.nossn.com/specvest/nossn.nsf/b896852a62036d1e852568f0001d68fc/f8ff5578214e6285852568f6000157a0/$FILE/con-not.pdf[/QUOTE]

Chex
02-05-13, 08:31 PM
Wow salsero one from J.E.M. at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/davids_outcasts/message/2962 was nothing but harassment. Nice post.

I agree with J.E.M. 666: http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/666/42USC_sec666.htm

allodial
02-05-13, 10:31 PM
If you keep a record of the refusal of them to open accounts without SSN, you could sue them $10K+ per instance.

Michael Joseph
02-05-13, 10:43 PM
I wrote exclusively to the Suitors on how to do this very task. Look up DUMMY T.I.N. also W8-BEN. Fact is you had best have some standing recognized by some State within the Union of the 50 showing that one of those States recognizes your foreign standing - this is TYPICALLY done with a Corporation Sole as the Sole member in Church.

Be prepared for a lot of blank stares - because the clerks are clerks for a reason - stop and think and maybe you will figure out that one. So there will be push back, but if you have your ducks in a row, then you will have your Declaration of Status, your notice of Standing from a Secretary of State on one of the 50, you private ID issued from within your private law boundary. Notice it is not good for man to be alone - therefore the Scriptures say "where TWO or more are gathered IN MY NAME there too shall I be." The wise will comprehend.

The Key: Genesis 1: 3-5.

God DECLARED
God SAW
God NAMED

Shalom,
Michael Joseph

P.S. You will need to do some study on Trust formation - this will Encompass both State and Church. Then you will want to look into Corporation Sole and then you will want to look into Arizona. I believe that is the ONLY state left that recognizes a Corp Sole in Church as a legal entity - such that the State will grant Standing. Notice "In the Water but Standing OUT of the Water" = no seas - but a firmament surrounding.

I find that this is not required but if someone really desires this way then so be it. It can be done and I know that for a fact = first hand factual witness.

allodial
02-05-13, 10:55 PM
I wrote exclusively to the Suitors on how to do this very task. Look up DUMMY T.I.N. also W8-BEN. Fact is you had best have some standing recognized by some State within the Union of the 50 showing that one of those States recognizes your foreign standing - this is TYPICALLY done with a Corporation Sole as the Sole member in Church.

I would not recommend associating with a State in the "Union". Union aka the United States might be domestic to the United States.

Michael Joseph
02-06-13, 01:44 AM
I would not recommend associating with a State in the "Union". Union aka the United States might be domestic to the United States.

I can appreciate that response. But consider this one: Ref 508(c)(1)(a) which has a total exception and exemption to the code. Now I would only register in State with this Standing as Officer in Corporation Sole in Church Ministry. So then the Church always remains without the State and the Corporation Sole is the Sole Office as Liason between Church and State. This is the Bridge. So the Corp Sole would Register with the Sec of State regarding Standing but NOT in regard to Incorporation. This is very important. Rather the Corp Sole is incorporated by Authority derived from the Church. And the State registration is merely for keeping the peace. So now a banker will see that the State can RECOGNIZE the Corporation Sole. So now the Church which is Foreign to the State can by and thru its Counsel [appointed within said Church] appoint men to perform tasks for the Ministry. So then the Corporation Sole might issue a LICENSE to a Church Foundation formed to do business in the State. And therefore we see the Corporation Sole as an OVERSEER in ADMINISTRATION and we see the Foundation doing what it needs to do in State but we see the Church without the State.

So then the Foundation applies for a banking account as a Church AFFILIATED ORGANIZATION - ordained and overseen by the Corporation Sole - for the benefit of both Church and State. The foundation would therefore also be foreign to the State as it is subject to Church Law. As it was Ordained by Church Law.

So then the Banker only needs to see that the Corporation Sole has been Incorporated [Under Church Law] and is recognized by the State of [insert Name]. Like I said I have seen this done with my own two eyes.

Shalom,
Michael Joseph

David Merrill
02-06-13, 03:07 PM
Then you graduate in the written trust law and know you are The Good Church (http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1817/thegoodchurch.pdf).

Then you graduate from that and realize you are Elect.

That is where this fellow lives, based upon my calculations (http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6653/statecourtprayer.pdf) over ten years ago.



http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_off_the_grid.jpg

Better yet, this fellow was suffering seizure of his castle back when the clerk of court attacked his identity:


http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8948/bishopcastlegrandhall.jpg

http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_certificate_falsified.jpg


http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_certificate_corrected.jpg

I sent $350 to Congress with a summons, like a civil suit to MANSPEAKER accusing him of falsifying information on court documents. Notice the dates. MANSPEAKER corrected the certificates and was replaced soon after that.

Graduation replaces registration. Being in that Zone faith provides is the only safety. Like how MJ points out that all the states of the Union are repealing any allusion to corporation sole. The States are graduating from providing for that METRO/municipal priesthood (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9579/templestonesmogandavid.jpg) trustee-ecclesia by statute.


Regards,

David Merrill.

Magnus the Destroyer
09-20-13, 03:41 PM
I recently attempted to open a bank account at US Bank without an SSN in California. Here's how it went.

Having no bank account, I cash all my checks at a branch of the bank upon which they're drawn. A friend with whom I do business has a US Bank account and pays me with checks drawn on that account. When I would go in to a local branch to cash the check, the teller would ask me if I had a bank account to which I would reply that I do not. They would then ask if I'd like to open one, and I would give them the same response I gave to all other tellers at all other banks that asked: not unless I can open one without a SSN. To my surprise, the US Bank teller said they could and would.

So I went in one day to open an account, having spoken to the branch manager and confirmed that I would simply need two forms of ID. I have a state ID card (that I got only because I found it nearly impossible to use my "functionally equivalent" identification to otherwise cash checks) but nothing else. After some discussion it was determined that I could use a vehicle registration form. My wife's car is still registered with the state, so I was able to use the registration renewal form as a second ID. I also believe a marriage license would be acceptable as well, based on something I read somewhere in the CA statutes that allowed for alternative ID for some specific purpose and a marriage license was one of the items mentioned.

The clerk was unable to enter all 9's or 0's in the SSN field. The only way to make the SSN field go away was to select a county other than "United States" from the drop down list, but I didn't want to represent myself as being a citizen of any other country (which would be a lie, probably an unfortunate one at that). I told her I was a citizen of California, and explained dual citizenship in the US (state v. federal) and she was very fascinated and appreciated the lesson, but that didn't help the computer understand my status. Passing myself off as an "American National" was of no use either. The clerk let me look at the country scroll down list and I didn't find anything that I would feel comfortable using. The only logical choice available was "United States".

So, no go. I continue to research this. I know there is a way.

Peaceful
01-06-14, 09:46 PM
I too have been looking into opening a small account based on a best scenario:

The Ideal: Find a SMALL state Credit Union (State, NOT Federal Credit Union, nor FDIC insured. The determining giveaway here is merely the lack of the word Federal; just "Credit Union") rather than a bank, in perhaps a State with no income tax like South Dakota or Washington. Open a NON-interest bearing account and get your Lawful Money verbiage on your signature card.

The Problem:
I've seen older SSN cards say they are not to be used as ID. Even with a SSN, passport, Driver's Lic., Birth Certificate and credit card, the establishment points out the Patriot Act, and requires a utility bill (?!?!) and/or picture ID with your current home address. What to do when you don't have a current home address such as a full time RV'er in transition, and don't want to subject yourself to REAL ID intrusions nor establish residency. Trying to quash some burocracy.

The Solution?
Eliminating the tellers and going to the manager may be best, but knowing what to say/show first would help. Charm wit and smiles aside, I imagine one being not worth the hassle by the time you get the signature card verbiage attempted. Any others in this scenario have any suggestions? I am open to out of state options. I've tried while recently in Fl. Maybe I'll have to try an out of country option?

David Merrill
01-07-14, 10:15 AM
I too have been looking into opening a small account based on a best scenario:

The Ideal: Find a SMALL state Credit Union (State, NOT Federal Credit Union, nor FDIC insured. The determining giveaway here is merely the lack of the word Federal; just "Credit Union") rather than a bank, in perhaps a State with no income tax like South Dakota or Washington. Open a NON-interest bearing account and get your Lawful Money verbiage on your signature card.

The Problem:
I've seen older SSN cards say they are not to be used as ID. Even with a SSN, passport, Driver's Lic., Birth Certificate and credit card, the establishment points out the Patriot Act, and requires a utility bill (?!?!) and/or picture ID with your current home address. What to do when you don't have a current home address such as a full time RV'er in transition, and don't want to subject yourself to REAL ID intrusions nor establish residency. Trying to quash some burocracy.

The Solution?
Eliminating the tellers and going to the manager may be best, but knowing what to say/show first would help. Charm wit and smiles aside, I imagine one being not worth the hassle by the time you get the signature card verbiage attempted. Any others in this scenario have any suggestions? I am open to out of state options. I've tried while recently in Fl. Maybe I'll have to try an out of country option?

The Notice and Demand (NaD) process directly on the Federal Reserve bank is a good method. Once the papers are all marked up you can serve it on the bank manager and forget about the signature card.

Some suitors simply file a 1040 with redeemed lawful money demands on the paychecks for evidence. The memorandums to IRS agents do not cover anything specific about redeeming lawful money so whenever they assess a frivpen they are outside the scope of their authority. The NaD replaces the Libel of Review (LoR) only because the filing fee for the federal civil suit has been bumped steadily by $50 increments.

Xabre
02-13-15, 03:48 PM
Also that when opening a new account the program that is now used around the world does NOT ALLOW for small caps input, as everything is done in All Caps to insure that you are entered into the banks computer system as a "Corporation", I tried to open a new account for direct deposit and requested my name be inputted in small caps and it could not be done I inquired as to why and the bank manager demanded that I leave the bank, and he not answer any questions, he did however say that he was NOT interested in my business...needless to say I did not open an account at that branch.

X

JohnnyCash
02-13-15, 06:01 PM
That was not true a few years ago when this account was established: http://jesse2012.com/signcard.jpg
Both the Account Title & Name 1 printed out in Lower Cap.

EZrhythm
02-14-15, 12:36 AM
Did you sign a W-9 for that account?

There are folks are filling out W-8BEN forms and changing their status to Non-Resident Alien. This doesn't effect the man's status as being a State National but changes the status of the person from being a US Citizen so that the NAME no longer is such.

allodial
02-16-15, 09:43 PM
Pretty much you dont go into a bank presenting your person as a U.S. citizen and expect to open the account without an SSN.

JohnnyCash
02-17-15, 02:30 AM
Pretty much you dont go into a bank presenting your person as a U.S. citizen and expect to open the account within an SSN.
People do it everyday. http://jesse2012.com/signcard.jpg
Looking closely you'll see the "Under penalties of perjury, I certify that..." language is straight from the IRS Form W-9.
Bank of America does not hide it, Substitute Form W-9: http://jesse2012.com/BAsigncard.jpg

These signature agreements are examples of an easy way to quickly establish a lawful money bank account for the person with the SSN. The person has the SSN, not me. But I use the account for my benefit. Works great for direct deposits and has not hindered my 8 year success as a NONtaxpayer.

If you'd like to establish a bank account without SSN using Form W-8BEN, you should seek out Michael Joseph. He's the goto guy for this. You may want a good grasp of trust law to get 'r done.

EZrhythm
02-17-15, 04:31 AM
Why was the W-9 signed at all? You can request a non-interest account with no W-9 requirement or you can just deny to sign the W-9 uunder the agreement that they will not pay interest on deposits. I went in asking for a non-interest bearing account and they said, "We don't have any of those." But when I wouldn't sign the W-9 they said, 'Then you will not receive interest on the account." EXACTLY! That is what I asked for!


Pretty much you dont go into a bank presenting your person as a U.S. citizen and expect to open the account within an SSN.

I looks like there might be a typo and you meant to say. "without an SSN".

allodial
02-17-15, 04:50 AM
Corrected. TYVM.


People do it everyday. http://jesse2012.com/signcard.jpg
Looking closely you'll see the "Under penalties of perjury, I certify that..." language is straight from the IRS Form W-9.
Bank of America does not hide it, Substitute Form W-9: http://jesse2012.com/BAsigncard.jpg

These signature agreements are examples of an easy way to quickly establish a lawful money bank account for the person with the SSN. The person has the SSN, not me. But I use the account for my benefit. Works great for direct deposits and has not hindered my 8 year success as a NONtaxpayer.

If you'd like to establish a bank account without SSN using Form W-8BEN, you should seek out Michael Joseph. He's the goto guy for this. You may want a good grasp of trust law to get 'r done.

As was much discussed on the older sites (2000 to 20010), one can file a fictitious reg with the SoS or County Clerk or something like that showing John Henry of the private household called "Smith" near Lallapalooza, Tennessee doing business as JOHN SMITH, 100 Main St., Memphis, TN 00000 or the like. One could even obtain an EIN and bring both fictitious registration and the IRS EIN assignment to the bank. Perhaps alternatives might come to mind.

JohnnyCash
02-17-15, 05:05 AM
The W9 was signed to obtain the bank account, deposit lawful money, pay no income tax, & end the FED.

I'm sure we'd all be interested in the agreement you signed for the non-interest bearing account. Could you sanitize & share?
Thanks

EZrhythm
02-17-15, 05:27 AM
All I did was refuse to sign a W-9. They then said that the account would not be paid interest and I said, OK. No W-9 was signed just the standard account agreement. This was before demanding lawful money so there was no editing made to the account agreement/signature card.

The W-9 is merely a permission slip for the IRS to receive account information from the bank about your account.

JohnnyCash
02-17-15, 05:35 AM
Oh, so you have no lawful money bank account. Thanks for that.

Maybe allodial person does.

allodial
02-17-15, 05:38 AM
The banks are *supposed* to simply provide notice to the Treasury Dept. when a bank account is opened without an SSN and open a non-interest bearing account. In some countries interest-bearing accounts are the only option.

EZrhythm
02-17-15, 06:13 AM
Oh, so you have no lawful money bank account. Thanks for that.

Maybe allodial person does.

At that time, for that account there was not a demand made for lawful money.

JohnnyCash
02-17-15, 03:32 PM
As was much discussed on the older sites (2000 to 20010), one can file a fictitious reg with the SoS or County Clerk or something like that showing John Henry of the private household called "Smith" near Lallapalooza, Tennessee doing business as JOHN SMITH, 100 Main St., Memphis, TN 00000 or the like. One could even obtain an EIN and bring both fictitious registration and the IRS EIN assignment to the bank. Perhaps alternatives might come to mind.That leaves us wondering ... just how did allodial establish his/her bank account?

allodial
02-17-15, 07:56 PM
That leaves us wondering ... just how did allodial establish his/her bank account?

I have tended to recommend to the furthest extent possible that accounts never be opened in one's name, non-statutory entities preferable. I'm unaware of have any bank accounts in my name. Even cops have complimented me on this point.

Greedy relatives and stalkers and shady folk aren't happy with that kind of thing when they can't find out where you bank or what name the accounts might be in and if one dies or becomes incapacitated they don't get anything through probate--so knocking you off for money loses its attraction (i.e. no probate and they aren't next of kin to a business).

I've heard stories of "good sweet daughters" who drained their mom's bank accounts and maxed out credit cards while she was in the hospital because of being certain mom was gonna die.

Wolves hate it when sheep aren't easy to eat.

JohnnyCash
02-17-15, 08:12 PM
OK thanks, sounds like you don't use bank accounts. Are you taking advantage of the remedy (from private credit) that Congress has made available?

allodial
02-17-15, 09:31 PM
OK thanks, sounds like you don't use bank accounts. Are you taking advantage of the remedy (from private credit) that Congress has made available?

Can still do it for company accounts. But as I mentioned, if making bonds/notes/bills are denominated in lawful money--they don't need to be 'redeemed for lawful money'. At the mortgage table and car note desk chances are the promise to pay involves "dollars in the lawful money of the United States (or United States of America)". The typical check is in DOLLARS and the $ symbol is typically in a box.

As mentioned, a fictitious reg. or a certificate of authority + an IRS EIN assignment can be utilized as part of opening accounts. Also a company can open accounts as a trustee/agent with account titles like "COMPANY CO AAF JOHN DOE".

JohnnyCash
02-17-15, 10:23 PM
Very interesting answer, thank you. If my questions make you at all uncomfortable simply tell me. I wonder ... if presented an out-of-state check as payment for services ... what would you do with it?

allodial
02-17-15, 10:27 PM
Very interesting answer, thank you. If my questions make you at all uncomfortable simply tell me. I wonder ... if presented an out-of-state check as payment for services ... what would you do with it?

I could hand to one of my trustees or deposit it in the appropriate account myself. I tend to have the trustees take care of those things. The Trustee or whoever can deposit it in exchange for credit on account (http://freedom-school.com/money/nod.htm)or mark it redeemed for lawful money. These days I can take a scan of a check and deposit it electronically. I have found using injket printers to be more convenient than stamps although I do have access to stamp making services.

Paypal is another viable payment receipt method.

JohnnyCash
02-17-15, 10:34 PM
I could hand to one of my trustees or deposit it in the appropriate account myself. The Trustee or whoever can deposit it in exchange for credit on account or mark it redeemed for lawful money. These days I can take a scan of a check and deposit it electronically. Interesting word choices. You "could" and you "can" ... but you've never done it in the past, and you're not about to start now, eh?

allodial
02-17-15, 10:38 PM
Interesting word choices. You "could" and you "can" ... but you've never done it in the past, and you're not about to start now, eh?

Me and banks...long story. I avoid them. It became clear to me that in the US in the past 20 years or so purpose has been to obstruct/prevent/interfere and spy. In the past say five years I have spent more time teaching branch managers than getting useful services out of them. If I got involved directly it would likely be me talking with bank counsel rather than a teller. Of course, I am for redeeming for lawful money or non-endorsement. Point was -> inkjets can be used instead of stamps to do non-endorsement--using practice/test blanks helps prevent ruining a check. Knowing what color socks I wear probably isn't going to assist with remedy unless you want to be as cool as me. Have you met Shoonra yet?

P.S. Trying psychology on me is LOL. "These aren't are the droids you're looking for."

JohnnyCash
02-17-15, 11:50 PM
I'm interested in your story; whenever you have time. You seem quite knowledgeable about banks & banking.

As mentioned, a fictitious reg. or a certificate of authority + an IRS EIN assignment can be utilized as part of opening accounts. Also a company can open accounts as a trustee/agent with account titles like "COMPANY CO AAF JOHN DOE".
A fictitious registration you say? Would one need a fake ID too?
I remember Shoonra the Useful; you've met him?

allodial
02-17-15, 11:53 PM
I'm interested in your story; whenever you have time. You seem quite knowledgeable about banks & banking.

A fictitious registration you say? Would one need a fake ID too?
I remember Shoonra the Useful; you've met him?

"They" call it a "Fictitious Registration" or "Fictitious Name Registration" i.e. where one 'registers' a d/b/a. Oddly enough one state had such a form that had an agreement to a prison penalty for making false statements or misrepresentations in connection with a fictitiousname registration...
2270
--wuut?

For State of Colorado its referred to as "Statement of Trade Name".

P.S. As for fake ID, maybe try your local DMV or passport office?


Statement of Trade Name of an Individual (Colorado) (http://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/business/sampleForms/TRDNM_IND.pdf)
Statement of Trade Name of an Estate, a Trust, a State or an Other Jurisdiction (Colorado) (http://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/business/sampleForms/TRDNM_PER.pdf)
Certificate of Assumed Name (New York) (http://www.dos.ny.gov/forms/corporations/1338-f-l.pdf)
Application for Registration of Fictitious Name (Florida) (http://form.sunbiz.org/pdf/CR4E001.pdf)
Trade Name Registration (Washington State) (http://bls.dor.wa.gov/tradename.aspx)

David Merrill
02-18-15, 01:47 PM
The quality of the content here at StSC is astounding!

allodial
02-18-15, 10:31 PM
Very interesting answer, thank you. If my questions make you at all uncomfortable simply tell me. I wonder ... if presented an out-of-state check as payment for services ... what would you do with it?

For your and the readers' sake I also add this:

Even internationally a bank such as Citibank will likely have an arrangement with a bank in say the UK whereby there is a post office box in UK where checks can be mailed for deposit to Citibank (USA) accounts. Basically two banks in different jurisdiction that are correspondents often have a system whereby one can send a check to a PO box and deposit in that country so that to the sender it seems like the deposit is being made locally. Queen Bank (UK) might have its 'USA gateway' bank as Bank of NY(USA) for the UK meaning someone in the US could deposit into an account at Queen Bank (UK) by check by sending the check to a PO Box at Bank of New York in the US!

Instead of Western Union, if you are in, say, Papau New Guinea and Granny is uncomfortable with sending you a check overseas or the like, you could have them send it to say a PO Box of their correspondent (you might arrange a special/indirect account # so that the deposit can be simple). To the Granny in the USA it would seem as if she was depositing to a USA bank. The banks would handle the correspondent arrangement internally and the funds would wind up at your bank at PNG. You might have to make special arrangements for a unique account number to simplify things for Granny.

As for fees, that would be on a case by case basis. Basically doing one's homework is key. You can go into any branch and ask for their list of international and domestic correspondents. I've been lied to by bank staff around the world but in the USA, they've tended to take it to a whole different level of lying.

I had bank staff lie to me once upon a time (surprise?) saying such didn't exist--I contacted the president of the bank and he was upset and forced them to hand me their book with the information I wanted.

Just FYI. Keeping a list of your banks international and domestic correspondents can be very helpful.

P.S. The same can apply to wire transfers or EFT (as the term is used overseas).

Chex
02-19-15, 01:33 AM
Something like this?

A bankers’ bank, which is organized and chartered to do business with other banks, is generally owned by the banks it services. Bankers’ banks, which do not conduct business directly with the public, offer correspondent banking services to independent community banks, thrifts, credit unions, and real estate investment trusts. Bankers’ banks provide services directly, through outsourcing arrangements, or by sponsoring or endorsing third parties. The products bankers’ banks offer normally consist of traditional correspondent banking services. Bankers’ banks should have risk-based policies, procedures, and processes to manage the BSA/AML risks involved in these correspondent relationships to detect and report suspicious activities. http://www.ffiec.gov/bsa_aml_infobase/pages_manual/OLM_045.htm or this http://listofbanksin.com/List-of-correspondentbanks-SWIFT-Codes.htm

allodial
02-19-15, 01:41 AM
Well not always necessarily a 'banker's bank'. The FRB is a banker's bank. The FRB is basically a correspondent system for banks--think correspondent as in 'pen pals'. By having accounts at a common FI (the FRB) banks can 'correspond' financially. Any bank that offers correspondent services might offer international or domestic correspondent services. Say you have an account with Tiny Bank in Arkansas. That bank might have a correspondent relationship with Bank of New York whereby someone can deposit into your account at Bank of New York as if it was done directly Tiny Bank. In other words you don't necessarily need to have an account at multiple banks to pull some things off and its possible to have an 'dummy account' at BoNY that BoNY that will cause deposits at BoNY to be deposited at Tiny Bank through the correspondent relationship. Basically one bank might provide services to yet another bank and vice versa. They simply correspond. If you look into the history of banks and credit cards, you'll likely see that money and post or courier services were usually 'married'. Look at Chase and Wells Fargo history. Banks provide courier services among other services or so-called services (if obstructing commerce is a service).

Of course Visa, Mastercard or Western Union would love for you to think that you always need them. The catch of course can be in the fees. If your transactions are frequent or high-dollar enough it might not matter. Are you surprised that it might cost a bank only $.20 cents to send a Wire Transfer but they charge $20 for the service?

Also MAJOR TIP: it is often easier to open an overseas account at a CORRESPONDENT OF YOUR BANK than any other bank. Because in a sense because that your bank has an account with that bank you already have an account. But no one told you--except me. And Captain Obvious would be pleading to interject that once you do that, it would be very very easy to fund that account through the CORRESPONDENT RELATIONSHIP.

Someone just anyone could just for fun go to their bank and ask for a list of their foreign/international correspondents and just give a general report here. There used to be a book that banks kept on hand that lists ALL KNOWN bank's correspondents in the world-thick like a phonebook. When you ask they might ask you to specify the country. You could ask for China. Ask them to give you all details: typically name of bank, IBAN, SWIFT, box service info, etc. You can even ask them for domestic (US) correspondents. That information allows you to see what banks your bank is connected to throughout the USA and throughout "the world".

Consider that this information is helpful if you travel and want to deposit a check into your USA account while you are overseas or vice versa. The information has always been there but...they weren't necessarily motivated to tell you...and perhaps you weren't all that motivated to ask.

2272

EZrhythm
02-19-15, 07:24 AM
I am hearing that people are having success opening a bank account without stating an SSN using a passport and a W-8BEN, indicating that the NAME is a non-resident alien.
http://famguardian.org/taxfreedom/Instructions/3.14ChangeFilingStatus.htm

allodial
02-19-15, 06:14 PM
I am hearing that people are having success opening a bank account without stating an SSN using a passport and a W-8BEN, indicating that the NAME is a non-resident alien.
http://famguardian.org/taxfreedom/Instructions/3.14ChangeFilingStatus.htm

Makes sense. A U.S. national is not a U.S. citizen. A national of an organic state of America is also not a U.S. citizen.

Chex
02-19-15, 07:10 PM
I like •3.17 Quit Social Security and Rescind the number assigned to you, and I want the contributions my employer and I put into the SSA account.

Termination at the request of the recipient. (http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-1333.htm)

There are 14 Updates appearing in the Federal Register for 20 CFR 416. http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/416.1333

allodial
02-20-15, 01:24 AM
I like •3.17 Quit Social Security and Rescind the number assigned to you, and I want the contributions my employer and I put into the SSA account.

Termination at the request of the recipient. (http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-1333.htm)

There are 14 Updates appearing in the Federal Register for 20 CFR 416. http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/416.1333

Someone I know visited an SSA office and asked if there was a form that existed to terminate the card account, benefit etc. The desk clerk (helpful) searched for any such form. The desk clerk was asked if there was a Form 521 and if there were instructions. Being helpful (I witnessed this) she went to find her manager who insisted there was no such thing..no such for..no way to cancel/terminate the card/account etc. So the next step was to go get the form which was out in the car. Went to the same clerk, showed her the form. She showed sincere surprise, she was asked if there were instructions for the form. She went to the manager. When the manager saw the form (a butchish, redhead female) she could not contain her self. She SHRIEKED "HOW DID HE GET THAT?!" and red-faced, angry and caught in a lie by multiple witnesses scurried back into her office out of sight. So that form must be 'insignificant' right?

JohnnyCash
02-20-15, 08:55 PM
Form 521 (http://www.socialsecurity.gov/forms/ssa-521.pdf) won't cancel/terminate the card/account. It's a request to cancel your application for SS benefits. Doesn't apply to most of working America. http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/withdrawal.htm

Thank you for taking time out of your day to address our humble gathering.

allodial
02-20-15, 10:08 PM
Form 521 (http://www.socialsecurity.gov/forms/ssa-521.pdf) won't cancel/terminate the card/account. It's a request to cancel your application for SS benefits. Doesn't apply to most of working America. http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/withdrawal.htm

Thank you for taking time out of your day to address our humble gathering.

AFAIK both the card itself and the account are a benefit. To cancel the account, I would suspect that a very direct written cancellation rather than a "request" to cancel might be better. If the form wasn't suitable for withdrawing the card/account benefit I suspect the branch manager wouldn't have been in such a storm.

Related: Withdraw from Social Security (http://famguardian.org/publishedauthors/media/antishyster/v11n1-withdrfromss.pdf)

JohnnyCash
02-21-15, 02:34 AM
Let us say ...

Mabel has operated a diner from a building near the road on her property for a long time. It's called Mabel's Kitchen. The business entity started as a sole proprietorship - Mabel Smith d/b/a Mabel's Kitchen. She never registered the DBA (Doing Business As) nor the trade name.

Now Mabel is getting on in years and her children now handle most of the work. Also, much of her business is now coming from catering & online sales of "Mabels" branded products. For these and other reasons Mabel considers incorporating the business but finally decides to form a trust - MABEL'S KITCHEN TRUST - on 2/19/2015.

Now on 2/20/15 everyone arrives at the diner and told the business entity has changed, but she doesn't change the restaurant signage and continues to answer the phone as Mabel's Kitchen. That's the trade name the new trust will continue to use. The business continues to use the old bank account seemingly without any issues.

allodial
02-21-15, 02:53 AM
Sole Proprietorships tend to be associated with Fictitious Name Registrations -> Mabel Smith d/b/a Mabel's Kitchen. MABEL'S KITCHEN TRUST (i.e. the trustee or the trust corpus in action) can file a fictitious name registration showing that it is d/b/a Mabel's Kitchen. If she got an IRS EIN assignment its possible she could have opened the bank account without filing a DBA locally.

The bank and the IRS can be given a copy of the power of attorney effectively given to the trustee/trust over "Mabel's Kitchen" and over any the existing accounts. She can give consent to the use of the trade name intellectual property in writing as part of the trust declaration. The new trust can also establish separate bank accounts. If Mabel never registered the old dba, likely the bank accounts are in the name Mabel Smith unless she managed to get the bank to open it that way--and so still she can do up a power of attorney to the trustee /trust.

It tends to be rather 'universal' that a DBA need not be filed if the 'name' of the business has the name of the proprietor. As in Mable Smith having a company name Mabel's Diner might be exempt from requirement to register a dba.

Mabel Smith will want to be very particular about how she forms the trust (it could be a living trust, revocable, irrevocable trust, etc.) and how real property, intellectual property or other property are transferred to the trust. Real property transfers might be best done by filing in the Real Estate records of the respective county/parish were applicable.

Depending on the way the new trust is established, Mabel Smith could be the senior trustee and appoint a successor trustee.

shikamaru
02-21-15, 10:35 AM
Me and banks...long story. I avoid them. It became clear to me that in the US in the past 20 years or so purpose has been to obstruct/prevent/interfere and spy. In the past say five years I have spent more time teaching branch managers than getting useful services out of them. If I got involved directly it would likely be me talking with bank counsel rather than a teller. Of course, I am for redeeming for lawful money or non-endorsement. Point was -> inkjets can be used instead of stamps to do non-endorsement--using practice/test blanks helps prevent ruining a check. Knowing what color socks I wear probably isn't going to assist with remedy unless you want to be as cool as me. Have you met Shoonra yet?

P.S. Trying psychology on me is LOL. "These aren't are the droids you're looking for."

If you haven't met Shoonra i.e. 'Uncle Bernie' you are in for a treat folks.

Very colorful character to say the least ....

shikamaru
02-21-15, 10:38 AM
I like •3.17 Quit Social Security and Rescind the number assigned to you, and I want the contributions my employer and I put into the SSA account.

Termination at the request of the recipient. (http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-1333.htm)

There are 14 Updates appearing in the Federal Register for 20 CFR 416. http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/416.1333

A big, big thank-you for this one.

A most excellent find.

stoneFree
03-13-15, 05:19 PM
I've heard that LLC and trust entities are not required to file an annual report. Sounds like an advantage.

allodial
03-14-15, 02:35 AM
I've heard that LLC and trust entities are not required to file an annual report. Sounds like an advantage.

The same might apply to general partnerships (and sole proprietorship. Re: LLCs, might vary from State to State. Also, looking into what constitutes "doing business" might be worthwhile. Because one might believe something is "doing business" in a State when it isn't.

Related:

What Constitutes "Doing Business" By Foreign Corporations (http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2899&context=mulr)
What Constitutes Doing Business In Virginia (http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1018&context=wmrval)
Foreign Corporations: What Constitutes Doing Business Under New York's Qualification Statute? (http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2215&context=flr)

stoneFree
03-16-15, 02:11 AM
Relarded: Work for years paying 6.2% into Social Security, then terminate your eligibility for benefits so you'll never see a dime of it.


§ 416.1333. Termination at the request of the recipient. (http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-1333.htm)
meh

stoneFree
03-30-15, 03:52 PM
Some argue that corporations, LLCs, are as governmental entities, since their limited liability is the result of government fiat, rather than contractual dealings among individuals. Thus in some ways corporations have more rights than individuals.


It was not until 1886, after a series of cases brought by lawyers representing the expanding railroad interests, that the Supreme Court ruled that corporations were “persons” and entitled to the same rights (actually more) granted to individual people under the Bill of Rights. This sinister ruling, discussed by Thom Hartmann in his 2002 book Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and The Theft of Human Rights (Rodale Press) has led to the corporate dominance of the individual – a thoroughly un-American state of affairs. As Hartmann points out, the largest transnational corporations fill a role today that has historically been filled by kings. They control most of the world's wealth and exert power over the lives of most of the world's citizens. And they pretty much own the U.S. government: the revolving door between corporate boardrooms and the top echelons of all recent administrations is no secret.
http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14258

Michael Joseph
08-13-15, 02:51 AM
I can appreciate that response. But consider this one: Ref 508(c)(1)(a) which has a total exception and exemption to the code. Now I would only register in State with this Standing as Officer in Corporation Sole in Church Ministry. So then the Church always remains without the State and the Corporation Sole is the Sole Office as Liason between Church and State. This is the Bridge. So the Corp Sole would Register with the Sec of State regarding Standing but NOT in regard to Incorporation. This is very important. Rather the Corp Sole is incorporated by Authority derived from the Church. And the State registration is merely for keeping the peace. So now a banker will see that the State can RECOGNIZE the Corporation Sole. So now the Church which is Foreign to the State can by and thru its Counsel [appointed within said Church] appoint men to perform tasks for the Ministry. So then the Corporation Sole might issue a LICENSE to a Church Foundation formed to do business in the State. And therefore we see the Corporation Sole as an OVERSEER in ADMINISTRATION and we see the Foundation doing what it needs to do in State but we see the Church without the State.

So then the Foundation applies for a banking account as a Church AFFILIATED ORGANIZATION - ordained and overseen by the Corporation Sole - for the benefit of both Church and State. The foundation would therefore also be foreign to the State as it is subject to Church Law. As it was Ordained by Church Law.

So then the Banker only needs to see that the Corporation Sole has been Incorporated [Under Church Law] and is recognized by the State of [insert Name]. Like I said I have seen this done with my own two eyes.

Shalom,
Michael Joseph

Question:Where do you live?

Answer: Can you hear me?

Chex
08-13-15, 05:24 AM
The way the STATE gets around God’s Law and thereby controls the People is by creating only an office, and not a real human.

This office is titled as “person” and then the legislature claims that you are filling that office.

Legislators erroneously now think that they can make laws that also control men.

They create entire bodies of laws – motor vehicle code, building code, compulsory education laws, and so on.

They still cannot control men or women, but they can now control the office they created. And look who is sitting in that office of a “person” — YOU.

Since corporations act only through their officers, employees, etc., the income tax statutes reach out to them when acting in their official capacities, but not as individuals.

This is the real purpose for Identifying Numbers -- cf. 26 CFR 301.6109-1(d) [(D) An individual, whether U.S. or foreign, who is an employer or who is engaged in a trade or business as a sole proprietor should use an employer identification number as required byreturns, statements, or other documents and their related instructions.] & (g)

Special rules for taxpayer identifying numbers issued to foreign persons https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/301.6109-1

and 26 USC 6331(a) and 26 CFR 301.6331-1, Part 4.

Michael Joseph
08-13-15, 12:32 PM
The way the STATE gets around God’s Law and thereby controls the People is by creating only an office, and not a real human.

This office is titled as “person” and then the legislature claims that you are filling that office.

Legislators erroneously now think that they can make laws that also control men.

They create entire bodies of laws – motor vehicle code, building code, compulsory education laws, and so on.

They still cannot control men or women, but they can now control the office they created. And look who is sitting in that office of a “person” — YOU.

Since corporations act only through their officers, employees, etc., the income tax statutes reach out to them when acting in their official capacities, but not as individuals.

This is the real purpose for Identifying Numbers -- cf. 26 CFR 301.6109-1(d) [(D) An individual, whether U.S. or foreign, who is an employer or who is engaged in a trade or business as a sole proprietor should use an employer identification number as required byreturns, statements, or other documents and their related instructions.] & (g)

Special rules for taxpayer identifying numbers issued to foreign persons https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/301.6109-1

and 26 USC 6331(a) and 26 CFR 301.6331-1, Part 4.

That is right. No man can require of another man to do anything. But if a man takes an office and that office has certain duties and obligations subject to certain liabilities and therefore benefits, then the man who is now in office can be made to perform upon his office.

Consider what happens when one UNDERTAKES on behalf of another. That is a one-sided contract. In my opinion, when one flips a cheque over and issues a "naked endorsement" that is a Nudem Pactum. Therefore in PRESUMPTION the office of TAXPAYER is filled by a Grantee/Trustee.

These offices are understood by Faith. But whereof is Love? Shall it be birthed by Faith? To hear the Religionists today you would think so. But this is not The Way. Faith should be birthed out of Love not the other way around. The system of persons requires a "higher power" to Administrate and promote Justice.

The premise is simple..... "If you give your Word, then perform your Word".

Enter insurance stage left. This insurance is the means to "attempt" to remove the Ever Living God from the midst of government. An improper oath of office is no oath at all and therefore the performance of said office requires the consent of men and women as Grantor's of their good Faith in Trust.

Basically, these bogus officers are independent business operators posing as officers of State being understood by insurance policies. "May I have your business card?"

Best Regards,
Michael Joseph

allodial
08-13-15, 04:55 PM
Some argue that corporations, LLCs, are as governmental entities, since their limited liability is the result of government fiat, rather than contractual dealings among individuals. Thus in some ways corporations have more rights than individuals.


It was not until 1886, after a series of cases brought by lawyers representing the expanding railroad interests, that the Supreme Court ruled that corporations were “persons” and entitled to the same rights (actually more) granted to individual people under the Bill of Rights. This sinister ruling, discussed by Thom Hartmann in his 2002 book Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and The Theft of Human Rights (Rodale Press) has led to the corporate dominance of the individual – a thoroughly un-American state of affairs. As Hartmann points out, the largest transnational corporations fill a role today that has historically been filled by kings. They control most of the world's wealth and exert power over the lives of most of the world's citizens. And they pretty much own the U.S. government: the revolving door between corporate boardrooms and the top echelons of all recent administrations is no secret.
http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14258

The 14th Amendment was about giving corporations status as citizens under the guise of giving so-called "negroes" access to citizenship. "negro" and and "necro" refer to 'dead' or 'civilly dead' of corporations, slaves and married women. Generally, brown-skinned people never needed the 14th amendment technically because they always had access to citizenship or nationality in the states of America. However, those who were "born slaves" and agreeably so were the only ones who the 14th amendment would help. But the trick was to malign brown-skinned people, coercing a franchise on people that didn't necessarily need it. Furthermore, it might be that career soldiers and military companies would need the 14th amendment. It might not be a coincidence that standing armies in the U.S. arrived around the time of the 14th amendment.

The reason they are filling roles historically filled by kings might be because they are under the direction of some king or sovereign.

Another thing about corporations...


And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Genesis 1:30 KJV


And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
...
And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. Genesis 1:28 and 30 ESV

According to Blackstone and the Congressional Record corporations regarded to be souless. Do corporations eat? The Congressional Record also shows that the Congress only legislates over corporations rather than over living souls.

allodial
08-14-15, 05:48 PM
Continuing re: corporations


And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Mark 12:26-27


2744

Is it any surprise that in a corporate venue there could be said to be no "common law"?


There is no body of Federal common law separate and distinct from the common law existing in the several States in the sense that there is a body of statute law enacted by Congress separate and distinct from the body of statute law enacted by the several States. But it is an entirely different thing to hold that there is no common law in force generally throughout the United States, and that the countless multitude of interstate commercial transactions are subject to no rules and burdened by no restrictions other than those expressed in the statutes of Congress. Western Union Tel. Co. v. Call Publishing Co.
181 U.S. 92 (1901)

Magnus the Destroyer
08-20-15, 07:42 PM
EXCELLENT POST! Although that info doesn't provide what one needs to get by the bank requiring an SSN before they will open an account.

Excellent post...by someone who never actually did this. Because if you did, you might find your experience to be similar to mine, where the bank decides it no longer wants to do business with you and closes your accounts.

Because believe me, when it comes to deciding between what the IRS wants and what a bank customer wants, the manager will choose the IRS every time if they want to keep their job.

I've had this happen to me twice when I went to war with the IRS to prevent them from getting my bank records back in 2010-2011. To solve this problem I simply stopped doing business with banks. They aren't trustworthy (to say the least) and don't deserve my business.