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tommyf350
07-17-13, 04:57 AM
I realize that they don't exactly have it right, they may be referring to A4V, but i think it is important to note that they may be trying to end this process.

SOURCE: .ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?421453-Police-teach-tactics-for-handling-sovereign-citizens


Police teach tactics for handling 'sovereign citizens'

GREENSBORO, N.C. — With his shaggy hair, bushy mustache and obstinate ways, Jeffrey Allen Wright was well known to sheriff's deputies in Santa Rosa County, Fla.

Wright, 55, drove around with a phony license plate. When stopped, he refused to produce a driver's license. Once he threatened to sue a deputy who pulled him over.

After he was fined for traffic offenses in September, Wright paid with counterfeit money orders. When deputies served warrants for felony counterfeiting March 8, Wright barricaded himself in his garage and declared that he would not be "a servant of the king."

He broke out windows with a handgun, then pointed the weapon at officers, police said. Three deputies fired, killing Wright.

When Det. Rob Finch of the Greensboro police department heard about the incident, two words came to mind: sovereign citizen.

Finch teaches police and public officials around the country how to deal with self-described "sovereign citizens" like Wright. Finch and his partner, Det. Kory Flowers, have trained nearly 15,000 police and 5,000 public officials to combat sovereigns, zealots who refuse to recognize government authority in virtually any form.

Violent confrontations are rare, but the FBI says at least six police officers have been killed by sovereigns since 2000. A man tied to the movement shot and killed a California Highway Patrol officer who stopped him in Contra Costa County last year. A responding officer shot and killed the assailant.

The agency calls sovereigns — who number between 100,000 and 300,000 — a "domestic terrorist movement."

This time of year has federal authorities on alert, since a central tenet of the sovereigns movement is that its adherents believe they owe no income taxes.

Sovereigns assert that the U.S. Treasury has set up a secret money account for every American, which can be reclaimed through a bizarre set of legal filings known as redemption. They say everything from taxes to traffic tickets can be disposed of by drawing on the secret Treasury accounts through elaborate legal claims and mountains of paperwork.

Many sovereigns file invoices with police or judges, demanding hundreds of dollars an hour for time spent stopped by officers or when in court to answer charges.

Finch, 31, said his training sessions began after several sovereigns pulled over by Greensboro police in 2008 and 2009 refused to produce driver's licenses. They demanded that officers recite oaths of office and fill out long questionnaires.

"To them, a police officer is just a man in a Halloween costume," Finch said.

Other police departments began requesting their eight-hour seminars. Finch and Flowers now train agents of the FBI, DEA, ATF and Homeland Security — as well as district attorneys, clerks of court, judges and registrars nationwide. Finch says they are the only officers in the country who offer such street-level training.

They teach police to recognize sovereigns by their convoluted legal jargon and "mouthy" defiance. "Sovereign citizens are more likely not to obey their commands and more likely to commit violence during a traffic stop," Finch said.

Finch and Flowers often cite the 2010 deaths of two police officers in West Memphis, Ark., who were shot by a father-son sovereign team during a traffic stop for a bogus license plate. One officer had become distracted by a thick sheaf of papers thrust at him by one of the sovereigns.

Finch said he instructs officers to ignore paperwork other than license and registration. "Your antennae should immediately go up," he tells officers. "They refuse to recognize your authority, and that creates a dangerous situation."

As recently as August, two sheriff's deputies in Laplace, La., were shot and killed in an ambush. Police said at least two of the five men accused in the killings were sovereign citizens.

In Florida, police approached Wright carefully because he had told them in past encounters that he was not subject to police authority. Wright paid his taxes with a handwritten "coupon for payment," said Deputy Richard Aloy of the Santa Rosa Sheriff's Department. He had renounced his U.S. citizenship.

"They knew they had a bad individual, and they took the necessary precautions," Finch said.

Even nonviolent sovereigns can cause headaches through what Finch calls "paper terrorism." Some squat in foreclosed homes and file phony deeds claiming ownership, "paying" with photos of silver dollars. Sovereigns believe U.S. currency has no value but recognize precious metals as valid currency.

Many sovereigns — including the father-son team in the Arkansas shooting — hold seminars of their own in which they charge for lessons on redemption and tax avoidance. "You pay them in cash for them to tell you money has no value," Finch said.

Officials from Greensboro and other cities pushed for a new North Carolina law that makes filing false liens a felony rather than a misdemeanor. Finch said the law, coupled with training of court officials, has helped block or dismiss many phony liens and nuisance lawsuits.

But sovereigns continue to file suits and liens, hoping to claim property and damages, Finch said.

At one meeting Finch attended, a charismatic sovereign citizen told a rapt audience that U.S. currency has no value. But he also explained how to redeem millions of dollars from secret U.S. Treasury accounts, and how to use the courts to evade government control and taxes.

Afterward, Finch said, he asked the man what he did for a living. He was a U.S. Postal Service worker.

Finch asked how he justified working for a government he considered illegitimate. "He told me he needed the money to live out his ideology," he said.

JohnnyCash
07-17-13, 01:27 PM
The original hit piece appeared here on April 5th: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/05/nation/la-na-sovereigns-20130406

No, I do not believe "the U.S. Treasury has set up a secret money account for every American, which can be reclaimed through a bizarre set of legal filings known as redemption." While a traffic stop can be frustrating, threatening or acting out violence to officer is no solution. Don't act like a wackadooster. Most cops just respond as they're trained and have no knowledge of the hidden trust/identity issues at play. Your anger is misdirected at them. But a traffic citation provides a wonderful opportunity to learn your true name and all about these hidden relationships firsthand. I have experienced unusual responses & beat several tickets after applying some of the knowledge I've learned here at STSC about my identity and legal fictions/trusts. I've been found "not responsible" and never paid the fine on another one - it disappeared as if never written. Winner. But as far as scams go, the traffic revenue game is a very good one, in my experience more difficult to beat than the IRS scam.

Robert Henry
07-18-13, 07:46 PM
I'd love to hear more about this, Johnny Cash. I'm currently fighting a traffic ticket, via counter-claim against the citing officer, and I'd love to get some other ideas. I filed a motion to quash at the arraignment, enumerating several points to be answered by the prosecution, which the referee (judge) promptly denied and then entered a plea of not guilty for me, even though I expressly said I was not there to plead and did not consent to him entering one on my behalf. I was under the belief that him denying my motion, without a response to it from the prosecution, was illegal but apparently this happens all the time.

LearnTheLaw
07-18-13, 08:41 PM
I'd love to hear more about this, Johnny Cash. I'm currently fighting a traffic ticket, via counter-claim against the citing officer, and I'd love to get some other ideas. I filed a motion to quash at the arraignment, enumerating several points to be answered by the prosecution, which the referee (judge) promptly denied and then entered a plea of not guilty for me, even though I expressly said I was not there to plead and did not consent to him entering one on my behalf. I was under the belief that him denying my motion, without a response to it from the prosecution, was illegal but apparently this happens all the time.

due process of law
a fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal, especially in the courts. All legal procedures set by statute and court practice, including notice of rights, must be followed for each individual so that no prejudicial or unequal treatment will result. While somewhat indefinite the term can be gauged by its aim to safeguard both private and public rights against unfairness. The universal guarantee of due process is in the Fifth Amendment to the U. S. The American Constitution which provides "No person shall...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," and applied to all states by the 14th Amendment. From this basic principle flow many legal decisions determining both procedural and substantive rights.

Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Due+Process+of+Law


This court has held more than once that a statute creating a presumption which operates to deny a fair opportunity to rebut it violates the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. For example, Bailey v. Alabama, 219 U.S. 219 , 238, et seq., 31 S. Ct. 145; Manley v. Georgia, 279 U.S. 1 , 5-6, 49 S. Ct. 215.

'It is apparent,' this court said in the Bailey Case ( 219 U.S. 239 , 31 S. Ct. 145, 151) 'that a constitutional prohibition cannot be transgressed indirectly by the creation of a statutory presumption any more than it can be violated by direct enactment. The power to create presumptions is not a means of escape from constitutional restrictions.'

tommyf350
07-21-13, 12:23 AM
The original hit piece appeared here on April 5th: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/05/nation/la-na-sovereigns-20130406

No, I do not believe "the U.S. Treasury has set up a secret money account for every American, which can be reclaimed through a bizarre set of legal filings known as redemption." While a traffic stop can be frustrating, threatening or acting out violence to officer is no solution. Don't act like a wackadooster. Most cops just respond as they're trained and have no knowledge of the hidden trust/identity issues at play. Your anger is misdirected at them. But a traffic citation provides a wonderful opportunity to learn your true name and all about these hidden relationships firsthand. I have experienced unusual responses & beat several tickets after applying some of the knowledge I've learned here at STSC about my identity and legal fictions/trusts. I've been found "not responsible" and never paid the fine on another one - it disappeared as if never written. Winner. But as far as scams go, the traffic revenue game is a very good one, in my experience more difficult to beat than the IRS scam.


thanks for the original story. also have no worries brother, I am aware of the wackado's. understanding the law absolutely helps ease those emotions .it seemed like they were just going to throw the redemption process in with the sovereign and a4v crowd to make interactions with the state more difficult or seem frivolous all together.

Gavilan
07-24-13, 12:44 AM
The OP is propaganda to discredit those that are fighting to uphold their rights.

Is Driving a privilege? Yes, it is. Why? Because if you drive, you are using the People's Right of Way for your Private Gain. See Commerce.

So, to whom has the responsibility to police all that commerce and traffic in the People's Right of Way assigned? Usually to the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles or the head of Public Safety.

How is it that your car is known to them to be a vehicle used in commerce? Well, the manufacturer defined it as a vehicle and used in commerce by issuing one of these: MSO (Manufacturer's Statement of Origin)

https://app.box.com/s/q3l8fhxrcjurk95y3qxg

https://app.box.com/s/4ks978avurfqn0swfcs5

Why did the manufacturer declare it a vehicle used in commerce?

Because he wanted limited liability and applied for a license to be a vehicle manufacturer, and probably he needed capital to finance his factory.

See the requirement here for California:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/vehindustry/ol/manufacturer.htm

If you want to know a little more here is an excellent article by Hari Heath:

http://proliberty.com/observer/20010311.htm

The Statist have developed a very intricate web of self incrimination for the common folk, you have to be very careful about your dealings in commerce. They have turned the tables, you are no longer innocent until proven guilty, now you are guilty until proven innocent.

The best way to deal with them is to call them out, MAKE YOUR NOTICES PUBLIC AND CLAIM YOUR RIGHTS!

They will run over you if you are weak and do not stand your ground regarding your rights, you have to be firm and unflinching!

tommyf350
07-24-13, 05:17 AM
I was just trying to look out for the people here ,i was not trying to spread propaganda. I will try to read your links though.