Thanks for the information and welcome MacaddictJay.
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Thanks for the information and welcome MacaddictJay.
Since my dropping of the ball as a "CtC-educated" filer (see my first post above), I've been looking here and elsewhere for alternative solutions to the IRS assault on my finances. In the category of "elsewhere," I found a website called "teamlaw.net" and its associated forum. In this thread, the forum takes up the topic of redemption of FRNs in lawful money, and has a different take than in this forum. Rather than copy/pasting this entire thread here, I ask that David and other readers of this forum visit the above link, and provide their feedback on this thread and/or the whole "Team Law" enterprise (they offer paid services in addition to the free areas of their site/forum).
The first post in the thread begins: "Can anyone comment on the suggestion that Sec.411 of Title 12 (Federal Reserve Act) is an inherent remedy?" and is answered by several posts and a comment from their Admin that states:
In the forum, "Myth 22" is a hyperlink which explains their take on what they categorize as a "patriot myth."Quote:
(You don't seem to) understand that the FRN:
Is not money;
Is not a ?private credit instrument?; and,
Is merely a rented transaction instrument.
Thus, the use of the instrument creates no such ?contract? with Corp. U.S. binding anyone to pay income taxes. Any obligation to pay income taxes must come from the law and not from some such alleged implied but non-existent contract. In fact, it is highly unlikely that people are involved in the process of income tax paying obligations at all. The parties so involved in the process of paying income taxes are ?taxpayers??all of which have Taxpayer Identification Numbers. From the evidences we have seen and reviewed, we have never seen people that were taxpayers unless they were linked to the taxpayer through a general partnership.
The bottom line: though we are not aware of where you got that understanding from; it is not supported by what Team Law presented in our presentation of Myth 22!
My criteria for choosing a personal defense/offense strategy with the IRS is more practical than theoretical. At this point, I care more about what will work than whose theory is correct. I'm not sure at this point if their core remedy and yours are mutually exclusive; it may be that an apparent conflict stems from different definitions of terms. Might there be a meeting of the minds here?
Admin is Eric MADSEN up in Aurara, Colorado. He seems extremely clever but I find it impossible to teach him anything because he is a master of NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming). He has weaponized it and admits doing so.
In the post you quote him describing or defining what Federal Reserve notes are. He is probably right. They are also stock certificates in the Fed according to many courts and I like to view them as insurance policies which I feel agrees with Eric in your post. - Well, sort of.
I will play around on the public forum at Team Law and maybe see if Eric has matured in being a little open minded. He has been around the block though, and is very intelligent.
About three years ago I also looked into Team Law, because their research seemed thorough and intelligent. But then I quickly ran into the "beneficiary" hurdle which is evidenced in the thread to which you linked.
Whereas I have no problem with compensating people for their labors and efforts, for it is written "the workman is worthy of his meat", I do have a problem with the secret society approach of Team Law.
If Team Law had insights which are liberating and conducive to the pursuit of happiness for many, then why wouldn't they want to make their material slightly more accessible?
The more accessible they made it, the more popular and widespread it would become, provided it's any good.
If I wanted secret knowledge which can only be obtained by joining an exclusive club with membership fees then why wouldn't I join the Freemasons?
Could Team Law be a branch of Freemasonry?
Yes. Mormonism is a branch of Freemasonry. I have been shown by elders into the tabernacle area and it has many of the earmarks of the Lodge where Joseph SMITH derived the forms. It is likely that SMITH was shot for forming an unauthorized Lodge in Utah. There are many differences too though.
Eric is a Mormon.
From experience, the true remedies are based on very simple principles but the concepts and linkages can be 'complex' or seem so. Some of them might be so simple that it might take a while (for some even years) for it to sink in.Quote:
I have found keeping things simple is just as effective as anything, but I do delve into the complicated.
If a system is tremendously arduous and complicated, it is safe to deduce that something is being hidden or deception is being perpetrated.
Very interesting, thank you for explaining this David.
I had not been aware of the Mormon connection with Team Law.
This reminds me of George MERCIER's Invisible Contracts. When I began to read it, at first it made all kinds of sense to me until it got into the Mormon theology discussions, at which point it stopped making sense.
I like to think though that I can learn something from everyone and everything that I come across.
Hello and good day.
macaddictjay, as I find myself in similar circumstance I was wondering how you were making out....
Treefarmer, you mentioned a 72 hour window for proper use of the R4C. Can you expound on this significance? If I have not R4C within this time window what is the effect? Thank you.
It appears that 72 hours is the customary and traditional time span for considering a contract offer. If after 72 hours the offer has not been refused, it may be regarded as accepted.
Timing is everything, but who counts the hours?
I once R4C'd a wage garnishment which was 2 months old, but I successfully R4C'd it within 72 hours of discovering it's origin.
In the federal enclave which is traditionally called "my mailbox" there may be contract offers which I don't know about yet, because that federal enclave is a quarter mile away from a place I call my home on earth, and therefore I don't check it every day.
I count those 72 hours from the time that I discover a contract offer. This has worked well for me so far.
If I'm not ready to deal with paperwork, let's say on a Friday afternoon with the Sabbath hours drawing near, I don't even go near that federal enclave.
I also have CtC experience, and if you look around the forum you will find my posts on the matter.
The LoR has worked well for me and DH, and we've learned a lot in the process; like how to avoid excessive paperwork and persecution from the IRS for example and how to contract more successfully.
I hear what you are saying and thank you for the feedback. The ramifications of this knowledge are quite profound. I find it difficult to go through every day life, interacting with people the way I used to. It's impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. Even today, going to the ball game here in San Francisco, a gentleman came up to us parking the truck. He warned us about the local revenue agents ticketing for not parking close enough to the curb and "curbing" the tires. I have always been disdainful of what those in positions of so-called power had to say. The revenue generation goes on everywhere all around us like the lambs being lead....not to mention the slow degradation of the relationship between those in power and the great unwashed. The rise of the Praetorian class as I read it described recently. O/T I know. C'est tout.
It is good to have such an inquiring mind here Hobgoblin;
I want to add that in these times I have heard of The Ten Day Rule built around the three-day rule. It goes something like this; two days (from the posting date) to get you the presentment in the mail, three days traditional for you to consult family, attorney etc. with an extra day for holiday weekend in there; three days to return it... a day or two for the presenter to open the mail.
If you have a presentment older than three days it is still good to set up the evidence repository around it for the first R4C. Maybe the opposing attorney will ignore it THIS TIME but you still get your court in order. NEXT TIME you will be prepared for a timely R4C.
Regards,
David Merrill.
That is quite amazing the brain power around here! That question led me to a great revelation. There is no statute! That is my entire point about redeeming lawful money - it is a private agreement on such a large scale that it seems public. - Or maybe better said that the Federal Reserve System seems like Government.
Regards,
David Merrill.
It appears that 72 hours is the customary and traditional time span for considering a contract offer. If after 72 hours the offer has not been refused, it may be regarded as accepted.
Really!
I had some fools from a corporation survey me about the irs.
I don?t do surveys so I didn?t reply and believe it or not they stated in another letter the I contracted with them to do the survey.
Really!
Show me the contract!
I do not believe that Pete is a mere guru, else he could not post victories such as this one. I also do not believe that everyone here is engaged in tin-foil hat lunacy, as Pete asserts. (Heavy sigh. Can't we all just get along?)
What I believe is that examples like you have posted stay posted long after the IRS has come collecting the refund back. If whoever on the posting wants it removed, they are banished from the website.
Pete does not like me/us? That is odd since I/we are cleaning up after him often. You think he would appreciate me/us.
I got plenty of good information from a suitor who had Pete stay as a houseguest while trying to apply his CtC techniques. Pete's methodology failed and I believe that suitor is in prison. He may be out by now.
The Notice and Demand for lawful money can be presented through the US district court in several ways. Using the Miscellaneous Case ($46) is becoming difficult but might be solved by using a professional process server to file it. Apparently the clerks know failure to file a case is malfeasance and do not like to commit that on the record. There is the Libel of Review which establishes an evidence repository as well.
It can be discouraging because IRS agents are paid to generate these letters and fines; so they will continue doing so. Refusal for Cause can fairly consistently stop the process from developing to any levy or seizure. However many employers and bankers will relenquish funds to administrative letters so learning to be competent is really the mastery of metaphysics.
When the emotions associated with peace and forgiveness are genuine the universe takes (on) your order. Creation and communication are synonymous. Only beings of like order can truly communicate. Therefore when you project forgiveness then you can expect that forgiveness to be reflected back to you. This is the universe taking your order. You start creating forgiveness in the universe and should not expect that creation to come from the IRS but rather be the IRS complying with laws already in place. Metaphysics is the mental equivalence of your ideas of law being true - in coherence with the actual law.
Regards,
David Merrill.
I previously asked "Where is this expressed in a statute?" Nationwide gave us this over on the other forum. Scroll to June 30.
Good find, John Howard (and a great post by Nationwide as well)!! The post you link to has a link to the Veazie Bank v. Fenno case in 1869. Richard Di Mare provides an interesting analysis of that case in his book Lawful Income Tax Avoidance. The law passed by Congress on July 13, 1866 laid an income tax upon "the amount of notes of any person, State bank, or State banking association, used for circulation and paid out by them..."
According to Di Mare: "The heavy federal tax levied on the issuance of its banknotes was simply because the Veazie Bank, like thousands of other state banks, was inordinately competing with federal currency-creation powers." [Emphasis added.]
More Di Mare commentary: "No new taxing power was needed to levy this indirect "death tax" on private banks and their notes."
From the Veazie case itself, some very interesting dicta from the Chief Justice:
"[United States notes], issued directly by the government for the disbursement of the war and other expenditures, could not, obviously, be a proper object of taxation."
[emphasis added]
"It can hardly be doubted that the object of this provision was to inform the proper authorities of the exact amount of paper money in circulation, with a view to its regulation by law."
"..in the case before us the object of the taxation is not the franchise of the bank, but property created, or contracts made and issued under the franchise, or power to issue bank bills."
[emphasis added]
"...the government is responsible for the redemption of both [referring to previously mentioned "United States notes and notes of the National banks"]"
"Having thus, in the exercise of constitutional powers, undertaken to provide a currency for the whole country, it cannot be questioned that Congress may, constitutionally, secure the benefit of it to the people by appropriate legislation...[t]o the same end, Congress may restrain, by suitable enactments, the circulation as money of any notes not issued under its own authority." [emphasis added]
In light of the last quote above, the income tax on currency not issued directly by the U.S. can be seen as a means for Congress to ensure that lawful public money issued directly by the U.S. remains available and competitive.
However, an inelastic currency over time becomes artificially undervalued and in practice gets driven out of use by an elastic currency, which iin time becomes overvalued. For example, I have a silver dollar coin from 1900 with a face value of $1. But I would be foolish to use it to buy a "dollar" worth of goods, because it is worth about 20 "dollars" in FRN's to a coin collector (mostly due to the silver content I am guessing). The FRN "dollar" is worth about 1.5 cents in cotton fiber paper. But because I can get a "dollar" worth of goods or services for it, I use the FRN instead of my silver dollar coin.
Btw, how does Federal Reserve get away with using the word "dollar" on its notes? I think that is proof on its face that you enter a contract and an agreed upon fiction of law by the use of an FRN, since the definition of a dollar in federal law remains a certain weight of gold.
Perhaps a better question is, how does the United States get away with using the word "dollar" on its notes, when they refuse to redeem their notes for the federally defined "dollar" weight in gold? I guess we are still technically in an emergency, since the President and Secretary of Treasury retain the power to declare a bank holiday any time.
The decision to simply stop circulating U.S. notes in 1971 was probably helpful in preventing this issue coming up very often.
I'm not going to go into all of the issues on this post; but the reason why your 1900 silver dollar is no longer rationally used to buy just a dollar's worth of goods is that silver, like gold or copper, is essentially a commodity. For a long time, the price of silver was such that our coins contained no more than their face value of the metal contained in them; but when that price began to rise due to market pressures, it no longer made sense to keep silver in our coins. We either had to downsize the coins or change their composition; and by far the most practical course of action was to change the composition. Nowadays, given the way that silver prices fluctuate, it would be impossible to come up with a viable silver coinage -- and I'm not even going to get into the deflationary aspects of tying our monetary system to a precious metal.
Good point!
That is a big consideration that I have been overlooking by and large. I would simplify it that elastic currency is solely to blame, as the inelastic currency would remain stable. But the truth is that the value of the precious metal (silver) varies by its need to fill roles in technology and other industrial uses; plus the aesthetic value in jewelry etc. The population growing and landmass staying the same plays a big factor too. Gold's use in electronic devices is a big consideration too.
Though we do not have a formal gold standard for the dollar, as of April 2011 the Federal Reserve maintained a 17.5 percent partial gold reserve against the base money supply, (a kind of shadow gold standard) according to James Rickards in his book Currency Wars. Historically the Fed maintained about a 40 percent partial gold reserve after abandonment of a formal gold standard.
Gold and silver were commodities when they were used to formally back the dollar as well. The most significant difference now is that the paper "dollar" is now in far far greater supply because of its elasticity. The value of silver has always and will always fluctuate based on free market forces--which is better than having a government arbitrarily set its value. A silver backed dollar would cause fluctuations in the value of the dollar, due to the fluctuation of silver. But so what? The value of the dollar would remain relatively stable if formally backed (even partially) by a precious metal, a welcome alternative to the cumulative 2253% inflation of the dollar since 1913. Indeed the dollar may have to return to at least partial backing by gold or silver to restore confidence in it as a viable currency in the long run.
Btw, one of the biggest reasons for fluctuation of silver and gold prices, other than using an elastic paper dollar to measure their value, is the issuance of "paper gold" and "paper silver" which is also done fractionally and over-represents the supply of these commodities. This market manipulation keeps the price of gold and silver artificially low to disguise how depreciated the paper dollar really is.
The problem with that analysis is that during our history, a large increase in the supply of either gold or silver raised havoc with our economy; and when there was too little gold around to provide us with an adequate money supply, our economy suffered -- that's why countries like the US and France, which stuck to the gold standard as long as possible, suffered worse than countries like the UK, which abandoned it during the 1920s. Then, look at Spain -- all that gold and silver extracted from the new world didn't make them into a world power. In fact, it did the opposite.
Another factor to consider is the supply of gold and silver in today's world. It's getting harder and harder to get the stuff out of the ground; and the countries which still produce a lot of it have enough of it so that they could, if they so chose, manipulate metal prices (and thus our money supply) just like OPEC does with oil. Sorry -- but after having seen gold and silver soar in price since 2008, and then give back over half of the gains, I don't buy the premise that a silver-backed dollar would remain relatively stable.
The "paper gold" is SDR's - Special Drawing Rights.
Take a look here too.
Quote:
Gold held "under earmark" at Federal Reserve Banks for foreign and international accounts is not included in the gold stock of the United States; see table 3.13, line 3. Gold stock is valued at $42.22 per fine troy ounce.
Please don't do me any favors, JohnnyCash. I didn't go into all of the points in ManOnTheLand's post because I didn't think them worthy of being addressed; so I limited my response to what I know as a result of decades as a coin collector and as someone with a background in finance. I'll limit my response, this time, to one point: deflation occurs when too little money is available to support the economy. That's what happened from 1929-33, and is why the initial years of the Great Depression were as bad as they were. It's also why the Recession of 1938 occurred, as cuts in federal spending took money out of the economy. If there is too little silver and gold around to support the need for circulating money (and there are a lot more industrial uses for gold and silver than there were 50 years ago), deflation will occur; and if it continues for too long, recession and maybe depression follow.
Paying less for goods is no benefit to us if we don't have the money to buy what's out there, or if people cease production because they cannot get a profitable price on the things that they sell.
Greetings bobbinville,
And what do you use as a comparative yardstick... the FRN? When was the last time the fiat dollar held a steady value? What has the value of the FRN done for the last 100 years? Nixon was the president that finally took us off the gold standard circa 1971. Low and behold, now we have a 17 trillion dollar debt. The two observations are inseparable. The debt we have today is a direct result of coming off the gold standard. Commodity based money will act, at least, as a throttle of runaway inflation. Right now we have nothing but incurable inflation, and it will only get worse.
Bentley
Spoken like a bankster protectionist, bobbinville. My study of history reveals the bankers caused the Great Depression with the oversupply of money initially (Roaring 20's) and then contraction of same, intentionally. I would gladly take deflation over our current bankster oppression.
Coin collector? you don't sound like any coin collector I know. Here's a 1900 silver dollar from my collection: http://jesse2012.com//1900_Morgan.jpg
I now know that the Federal Reserve/IRS scam is optional, that we need to be persuaded into it, and sending agents here for that purpose seems perfectly logical to me. Remember what FDR said "And, therefore, if we can persuade people all through the country, when their salary checks come in, to deposit them in new accounts, which will be held in trust and kept in one of the new forms I have mentioned, we shall have made progress."
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/ppotpus/...?rgn=full+text
Yes it's wonderful to have a representative of the banking cartel posting here. I may have further questions for you. I see that the suspected agents Skankbeat, freeme & cadman777 all stopped posting at the LostHorizons forum after they were outed. Hopefully you'll stick around.
Bully for you! I've been collecting coins for 54 years now.
I'm not going to enter into a debate on economics with you; but most people disagree with yout theory about the Great Depression. As for your FDR quote -- he was trying to get people to stop hoarding cash in mattresses, etc. and get it back into circulation, so that the effects of deflation could be reversed. You really need to study the early years of the Great Depression some more -- the loss of jobs, the closing of businesses, and so on -- and you'll see that deflation can be just as bad as inflation. Lower prices do you no good if you can't get enough money to buy anything, or if you have it but hoard it on speculation that prices will go lower still.
Can't get enough money to buy anything? Are you serious? This is America, [redacted], we use anything & everything from bitcoins to our signatures to buy stuff.
Your statements are dubious. Since you brought up the subject of your 1900 silver dollar, may we see a photo of yours alongside some evidence that it is in fact, yours?
Yeah, the problem in 38 was not enough government spending. Always need more govt spending, right Mr Keynes?
Jay who? That isn't my name or handle.
I'm not your Economics professor, Johnny. Read up on "deflation" -- Wikipedia is not a bad place to start; but at any rate bitcoin didn't exist in 1929. A little research will come up with other examples where deflation crippled an economy. Of course, it can also benefit an economy, where inflation is a problem; but during 1929-33 it hurt ours pretty badly.
If you are asking me to post photos of my own silver dollars, or any of my coins, to prove that they are mine -- no. For one thing, it is no one's business but my own what coins I have; and for another, I could just as easily borrow a coin and scan it. I will say that the bulk of my collection consists of Canadian, British, German and Swiss coins -- especially for the latter three, finding a bargain is easier.