State Return - Need Assistance - Lawful Money

Hello All,

I have been watching this forum for a few years now, and reading all I can about redeeming Lawful Money. Last year, I went off direct deposit and started redeeming my paper checks with the bank. This year, I filed my taxes. I mailed them both (Federal and State) on April 15th and pretty much followed the template used on this site successfully by others.

After a month, my Federal was accepted and was processed within 8 days. It was Approved for refund and I received my check from the IRS a couple weeks later.

My State return (State of Iowa) was finally accepted on 5/29. Today, I received a letter from the Iowa Department of Revenue. Below is what it says:

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PLEASE SUBMIT THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:

An explanation of "other income".
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When I filed my Iowa 1040 form, on line 14 Other Income, I put a negative amount of the NET Income that I redeemed last year (example: -50000). I then stated that this was "Demand for Lawful Money Reduction".

I then created a scheduled form that looks like the below:

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2013 Form 1040 Line 14
Supporting Schedule
Demand for Lawful Money
Per 12 USC Section 411

Name: John X Doe SSN: XXX-XX-XXXX
Form 1040 Line 14: Total Pay Reduction from Demanding Lawful Money

Total Gross Pay Reduction to Line 14: 50,000.00

See attached copies of the confirming checks and deposit slips. Said copies provide substantive record that lawful money is demanded for all transactions effective beginning 1/1/2013.
Also enclosed is a copy of Title 12 United States Code Section 411 for your review.
---------------------------------------------------

I enclosed in my package to them the following:
- Iowa 1040 form
- Scheduled form shown above
- Front/Back pictures of all 28 paychecks from last year, all redeemed with "Redeemed Lawful Money Pursuant to 12 USC 411"
- A copy of the law, 12 USC 411 from Cornell website
- W-2 slip from workplace

I have 15 days to reply to this letter and am looking for some advice on how to properly respond. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Breneth

Welcome to the forums Breneth;


Reading your post it sounds as though you already explained the lawful money reduction to the State department of revenue. So you might re-submit the same schedule with a copy of the Letter Refused for Cause. You might consider a Libel of Review to start a record and evidence repository.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breneth

Hello All,

I have been watching this forum for a few years now, and reading all I can about redeeming Lawful Money. Last year, I went off direct deposit and started redeeming my paper checks with the bank. This year, I filed my taxes. I mailed them both (Federal and State) on April 15th and pretty much followed the template used on this site successfully by others.

After a month, my Federal was accepted and was processed within 8 days. It was Approved for refund and I received my check from the IRS a couple weeks later.

My State return (State of Iowa) was finally accepted on 5/29. Today, I received a letter from the Iowa Department of Revenue. Below is what it says:

------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE SUBMIT THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:

An explanation of "other income".
------------------------------------------------------

When I filed my Iowa 1040 form, on line 14 Other Income, I put a negative amount of the NET Income that I redeemed last year (example: -50000). I then stated that this was "Demand for Lawful Money Reduction".

I then created a scheduled form that looks like the below:

--------------------------------------------------
2013 Form 1040 Line 14
Supporting Schedule
Demand for Lawful Money
Per 12 USC Section 411

Name: John X Doe SSN: XXX-XX-XXXX
Form 1040 Line 14: Total Pay Reduction from Demanding Lawful Money

Total Gross Pay Reduction to Line 14: 50,000.00

See attached copies of the confirming checks and deposit slips. Said copies provide substantive record that lawful money is demanded for all transactions effective beginning 1/1/2013.
Also enclosed is a copy of Title 12 United States Code Section 411 for your review.
---------------------------------------------------

I enclosed in my package to them the following:
- Iowa 1040 form
- Scheduled form shown above
- Front/Back pictures of all 28 paychecks from last year, all redeemed with "Redeemed Lawful Money Pursuant to 12 USC 411"
- A copy of the law, 12 USC 411 from Cornell website
- W-2 slip from workplace

I have 15 days to reply to this letter and am looking for some advice on how to properly respond. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Breneth

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Consider this post and posts 31 & 32 therein, and this post.

What exact wording did you put on your checks & deposit slips?

Also, why did you use NET income? That is inconsistent with redeeming ALL presumed FRN-based transactions so they can be reversed annually.

The templates on website use REGULAR (GROSS) pay. Please post your schedule (redacted).

Just a suggestion: Instead of ANSWERING THEM AS A DEBTOR, you may want to ask for clarification of their request as a creditor.
Example questions:
1. Is there a policy in your department that authorizes your above request? If so, can you provide a copy of said policy?
2. What exactly do you want explained about "other income"?
3. Is it not possible for "other income" to be a negative value?
4. Is there a mathematical mistake you are trying to assist in correcting?
5. Is it not possible for "other income" to include amounts that reflect demands for lawful money pursuant to 12 USC 411?
6. Is there any corresponding Code of Federal Regulations for 12 USC 411 that governs the execution of demanding lawful money pursuant to 12 USC 411, or that requires an explanation of same to anyone at any time?
7. Is there not a substantive record of evidence of said demands for lawful money in this matter that fit the Exception to Hearsay Rule in the Federal Rules of Evidence?
8. Is it not true that lawful money defined as United States notes per the Federal Reserve website are not taxable?
9. Is it not true that the tax being levied is in actuality a usage fee for the use of the private credit of the Federal Reserve in the form of Federal Reserves Notes, and the income tax regulations are merely an algorithm using "income" as factor for calculating said fee?
10. Have you not seen the video on the "Federal Reserve Act Remedy" on YouTube yet?

Please provide the requested clarification in order to allow a responsive answer to your request. If no reply is received within 15 days, I will presume your inquiry was a mistake, and that this matter is settled.

Hope this gives you some ideas for questions of your own. It is not surprising that the taxing agencies will begin some efforts to resist said demands, or at least test that people really know and BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY ARE DOING. In fact, I applaud their testing, as it sharpens and awakens more people to learn the truth about what is really going on with the Federal Reserve Act.

Thanks guys for the response!

I work a regular W-2 job, and have Federal and State taxes withheld from my paychecks. When I get my paper check, this is what I take to the bank and make my demand against. This is the reason I used the NET Income on my taxes, as I thought that is all I could legally claim. It seemed to work for my federal taxes! I had a small leftover amount that could be taxed after other deducations (head of household, etc). I think I ended up getting all but $500 of my Federal tax back.

I am unsure of how to insert a picture into this thread as it wants me to point to a link. If anyone can tell me a good way to do that, I can upload all my stuff as a victory for filing Federal, and what I have so far with my State.

Basically, I go to the bank and fill out a deposit slip the typical way. I then add the verbage "REDEEMED LAWFUL MONEY PURSUANT TO 12 USC 411" right below my account number (as they have a large white-space there.

(Though I am curious, should I be using "lawful money and full discharge is demanded for all transactions 12 USC 411 and 95a(2)" ??)

I then flip my paycheck over and write the same thing above on the back of the check.

Then I take a picture of the front of the paycheck along with the deposit slip. Then I fold the paycheck, just the endorsed part so they can still see the front of the check and the check number and take another picture.

When I filed my taxes, I opened up MS Word and on each page, I had the front/back of each check on a page. So I sent them 28 pages of checks that were all endorsed the same way for 2013.

Thanks for the replies!

As I haven't quite figured out how to attach a picture, I'll verbally explain what I do with my paychecks.

I work a regular W-2 type job and get paid twice a month (15th and last day of month). I receive a paper check from my company, as I went off direct deposit. I take the check to the bank and fill out a deposit slip with my name, account number, date, etc. Below the account number area, there is a large open space. I hand-write "REDEEMED LAWFUL MONEY PURSUANT TO 12 USC 411".

I then flip my paycheck over and hand-write the same verbiage. I place the deposit slip about the paycheck and snap a picture of them both. I then fold the paycheck, exposing the backside where my verbiage is, but still leaving the amount and check number (for validation that it is the same paycheck), and then snap another picture.

I then bluetooth those pictures to my laptop and insert them into MS Word. Each page contains the front and back pictures of each check for the entire year. This is what I sent in with my federal and state taxes.

Contents of package sent to both Federal and State:
- Proper 1040 form for Federal/State
- Scheduled Form explaining Line item 21(Federal) and Line item 17 (State)
- Copy of 12 USC 411 (Cornell College printout
- MS Word doc of all 28 paychecks from 2013 (front and back pics)
- W-2 from my employer

On Line Item 21 (Federal) and Line Item 17 (State), I use my NET Income as that is what I Lawfully Demanded with my paychecks. I added up all 28 paychecks, and entered that number as a negative (example: -50000). I then put "Demand for Lawful Money Reduction.

My employer takes out my Federal and State taxes from my paychecks, along with Social Security and other crappy taxes. As I haven't made a demand on those, I don't know how I could deduct my GROSS on my 1040 form. I have since decided to bump my Federal and State withholdings up to 99 so no more taxes will be withheld. This will also make my NET Income much larger and will be easier to come up with a zero tax at the end of the year.

I figure for 2015, I will pay no taxes at all. So I may not need to even file in 2016 as I'm not looking for any refund.

Any comments on any of this will be greatly appreciated! :) I am still learning and stumbling as I go down this path!

Thanks,
Breneth

Just an update on this issue..

So I responded back to the Iowa Department of Revenue with a letter asking them for clarification regarding what explanation they required as to my Demand for Lawful Money Reduction item filed on my 1040 form. I sent it in last week.

Today, I checked the Iowa Refund site, and they approved the refund and state that it is in the mail. The problem though is that they are only refunding about 10% of what was demanded on the 1040 form.

I'm assuming I will only receive a check and no explanation in regards to how they came up with their new refund number. Any advice on how to proceed?

Thanks,
Breneth

Thank you for sharing Breneth!

I view the Redemption (Run on the Fed) as an evolving drama. What we see happening is the revenue agency taking it upon their discretion to perform an audit, like on the other thread. This is violation of your right to be heard so it will likely pass soon. Suitors on the brain trust work in tighter conjunction as intelligence nexus to put this kind of pressure as the attorneys find new methods. I would likely solve this issue with a Criminal Complaint.

So, another update on this issue..

I received a check from the State (Iowa Department of Revenue) for about 10% of the amount on Tuesday. On Wednesday, I got an explanation letter from them. One form shows how they recalculated my taxes and completely disregarded my "Demand for Lawful Money Reduction". On another form, they put this:

Reason for Notice:
The gross income has been adjusted.
The taxpayers trust fund tax credit has been adjusted or denied.
Your refund claim has been partially denied.

I feel like I should send something back to them arguing that they are breaking the law, though as they as disregarded it already, I feel that I should take this elsewhere. A complaint to the State Treasurer, State Senator, Representative? Any suggestions would be most welcomed!

Get name(s) and ask to explain it. You want to know why not just what they did.

The taxpayer trust fund tax credit has been adjusted or denied.

What exactly does that mean?

I would send their letter back, Refused For Cause as it is an offer. They are countering your commercial offer to receive back a sum certain amount with a 10% offer. Since their letter is a Notice, if you do not respond then it is deemed that their statements are accepted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breneth

So, another update on this issue..

I received a check from the State (Iowa Department of Revenue) for about 10% of the amount on Tuesday. On Wednesday, I got an explanation letter from them. One form shows how they recalculated my taxes and completely disregarded my "Demand for Lawful Money Reduction". On another form, they put this:

Reason for Notice:
The gross income has been adjusted.
The taxpayers trust fund tax credit has been adjusted or denied.
Your refund claim has been partially denied.

I feel like I should send something back to them arguing that they are breaking the law, though as they as disregarded it already, I feel that I should take this elsewhere. A complaint to the State Treasurer, State Senator, Representative? Any suggestions would be most welcomed!

---

The Taxpayers Trust Fund?

That is an interesting reference. Thank you for the link Chex.

Speaking with an Elder from one of the older Protestant churches, he informed me they did not pay taxes because they did not participate in social security

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Billy James

they did not pay taxes because they did not participate in social security

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Which brings me back to this.

Whenever the SSA refers to you, it's a taxpayer. One holding a SS card, or cardholder. On the card provided to me by the SSA, it clearly says on the back "This card belongs to the SSA and you must return it if we ask for it." Does it get any clearer than that? What if they ask for it? What happens to my bank account, loans, houses, anything?

I've been pondering this for some time. What if I setup a trust, and make all sorts of crazy statutes if one was part of the trust. I give them numbers, and a card, then give them some money to sign a few contracts with their signature AND a reference to my special trust number I provided them.
Wouldn't that person then give physical capacity to the trust, and legal title to that contract would simply be held by said trust? Yes. Well, what if I were to remove them from the trust (I set it up that way), I take their card, I take their number. What is left, what legal remedy (may have some equitable) would that person have? All the documents they signed are referencing the trust.

There are times in life when one finally "sees" things for how they really are. Having kids, it's incredible to see the gears grinding in the minds connecting the dots, figuring things out. When we get older, this happens less frequently. But, this last year or so, things really started becoming clear. The biggest thing for me recently was finding that not only are cities incorporated (does the deed to your home reference a plat number, sub division or parcel, you have given them access to your property by dedication), counties are incorporated, and STATES OF ________ all were incorporated by the early 70's. They are corporate states, a private body! [http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...ll=1#post15012

Babies just out of the womb have to have a SS#. I want to know why? Whose child is this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chex

Which brings me back to this.

Whenever the SSA refers to you, it's a taxpayer. One holding a SS card, or cardholder. On the card provided to me by the SSA, it clearly says on the back "This card belongs to the SSA and you must return it if we ask for it." Does it get any clearer than that? What if they ask for it? What happens to my bank account, loans, houses, anything?

I've been pondering this for some time. What if I setup a trust, and make all sorts of crazy statutes if one was part of the trust. I give them numbers, and a card, then give them some money to sign a few contracts with their signature AND a reference to my special trust number I provided them.
Wouldn't that person then give physical capacity to the trust, and legal title to that contract would simply be held by said trust? Yes. Well, what if I were to remove them from the trust (I set it up that way), I take their card, I take their number. What is left, what legal remedy (may have some equitable) would that person have? All the documents they signed are referencing the trust.

There are times in life when one finally "sees" things for how they really are. Having kids, it's incredible to see the gears grinding in the minds connecting the dots, figuring things out. When we get older, this happens less frequently. But, this last year or so, things really started becoming clear. The biggest thing for me recently was finding that not only are cities incorporated (does the deed to your home reference a plat number, sub division or parcel, you have given them access to your property by dedication), counties are incorporated, and STATES OF ________ all were incorporated by the early 70's. They are corporate states, a private body! [http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...ll=1#post15012

Babies just out of the womb have to have a SS#. I want to know why? Whose child is this?

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Isn't SSA just a contract? The old guy referenced above probably never gave out his SSN# to anyone thereby NOT creating a presumption of a contractual (trust) relationship with the .Gov types. We are coerced to provide a SSN# to a new employer when your filling out all the paperwork upon commencing employment. They then use that SSN# to withhold $$ in order to pay the special income tax known as SSA. Now if your liable for the special income tax (SSA) your also liable to the general income tax levied on using bank money (and medicare). The employer then sends a W-3 to the SSA who then sends a W-2 to the IRS, and your misery begins. All of this is based off the presumption that you wish to participate in the SSA programs (contract) and that you are using bank money as your medium of exchange (duty on contracts aka checks). In order to perfect jurisdiction/standing on you they presume the contract was entered into (presenting your SSN# and using bank money) and if you never object to it they win as the injured party (in that you did not perform to the contract by filling out all their stupid forms). Using bank money is the gateway to the SSN contract(tax).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breneth

So, another update on this issue..

I received a check from the State (Iowa Department of Revenue) for about 10% of the amount on Tuesday. On Wednesday, I got an explanation letter from them. One form shows how they recalculated my taxes and completely disregarded my "Demand for Lawful Money Reduction". On another form, they put this:

Reason for Notice:
The gross income has been adjusted.
The taxpayers trust fund tax credit has been adjusted or denied.
Your refund claim has been partially denied.

I feel like I should send something back to them arguing that they are breaking the law, though as they as disregarded it already, I feel that I should take this elsewhere. A complaint to the State Treasurer, State Senator, Representative? Any suggestions would be most welcomed!

---

Perhaps the State denied Breneth's lawful money deduction (instead deeming it a "trust fund tax credit") because Breneth demanded a NET deduction. As Doug555 succinctly explained, the so-called taxable event on "employee/wages" is paid at the GROSS amount level. If the State was wise to lawful money and the proper application of this (on GROSS pay/all transactions) then they probably (and correctly) based their denial on Breneth making an 'empty' demand (on NET pay only). Or perhaps they were ignorant and assumed this is what Breneth was attempting (trust fund tax credit).

I made the same 'empty' demand with a County-recorded affidavit of which I will correct shortly by re-recording a proper Affidavit demand consistent with my first 2015 demand of "lawful money demanded for all transactions per 12 USC 411, 95a(2)" that I made on the FRONT of the paycheck and deposit slip.

I'm surprised Breneth did not follow-up here but perhaps he waived the State refund denial on his 'empty' demand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itsmymoney

Perhaps the State denied Breneth's lawful money deduction (instead deeming it a "trust fund tax credit") because Breneth demanded a NET deduction. As Doug555 succinctly explained, the so-called taxable event on "employee/wages" is paid at the GROSS amount level. If the State was wise to lawful money and the proper application of this (on GROSS pay/all transactions) then they probably (and correctly) based their denial on Breneth making an 'empty' demand (on NET pay only). Or perhaps they were ignorant and assumed this is what Breneth was attempting (trust fund tax credit).

I made the same 'empty' demand with a County-recorded affidavit of which I will correct shortly by re-recording a proper Affidavit demand consistent with my first 2015 demand of "lawful money demanded for all transactions per 12 USC 411, 95a(2)" that I made on the FRONT of the paycheck and deposit slip.

I'm surprised Breneth did not follow-up here but perhaps he waived the State refund denial on his 'empty' demand.

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Perhaps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breneth

So, another update on this issue..

I received a check from the State (Iowa Department of Revenue) for about 10% of the amount on Tuesday. On Wednesday, I got an explanation letter from them. One form shows how they recalculated my taxes and completely disregarded my "Demand for Lawful Money Reduction". On another form, they put this:

Reason for Notice:
The gross income has been adjusted.
The taxpayers trust fund tax credit has been adjusted or denied.
Your refund claim has been partially denied.

I feel like I should send something back to them arguing that they are breaking the law, though as they as disregarded it already, I feel that I should take this elsewhere. A complaint to the State Treasurer, State Senator, Representative? Any suggestions would be most welcomed!

---

The Refusal for Cause is likely the best way, if you cannot accept the offer as a settlement.

Keeping a record is typically the way a suitor handles it. Possibly if the State knew you would be publishing their testimony in the USDC on PACER they would have processed the Return correctly?