Notice and Demand to the Fed

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09-23-13, 01:57 PM
David Merrill

Notice and Demand to the Fed

I grabbed this from a Welcome Thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Make a Notice and Demand to the Fed and then base all transactions upon it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Howard

This is highly recomended. I include a copy of my demand with my 1040s.

Here are some Notice and Demand samples. For closer instruction with NaD or Libel of Review process please PM me.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3...eanddemand.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2...demand2012.pdf
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8...ndboacorre.pdf
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8...andmay2013.pdf

This last one was obviously guided by Internet reading here but I had nothing to do with the case. [Not a suitor.] The fellow was using his own record forming for others though and I do not recall that working out very well for the others...

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4...ddemandfor.pdf
10-17-13, 08:33 PM
enlightened

Tried to open my own thread but wasn't able to. (just signed up)

Hi everyone,

Today I went to my local branch with a check in hand.

Endorsed it

Redeemed in Lawful money
Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411
True name dba Legal name

All seemed well until

I asked if I could update my signature card. she said sure. So under the rather short signature I wrote "Any deposits or withdrawals, herinafter "Events", are made with the intent to receive or handle lawful money. Persuant to title 12USC411. True name dba Legal name

That's when the issues came up. Her argument was that my signature has to be exactly as in my passport, DL etc. I told her I was and pointed her to my legal name. She even said the request for legal money was fine, but if I wanted to use DBA i should open a business account. She wouldn't accept a true name either again stating it has to match my DL and passport...

Then another concern came up. I asked her if she had placed a restrictive endorsement on the check I just deposited. Specially after she said my restrictive endorsment was fine. She said "we have no way of placing a restrictive endorsement" the bank at the receiving end will see and and may choose to decline your withdrawal plus if we see you signing dba while conducting business under your name we will be forced to close your account"

I told her I had a super visor deposit a previous check and she even acknowledged she placed a restrictive endorsement.... This teller told me she didn't see anything. Which is what? Also my account didn't have a signature card on file for some reason. i.e they don't have my SSN or signature. Should I even bother with signing one?

Much appreciated.
10-17-13, 11:48 PM
David Merrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by enlightened

Tried to open my own thread but wasn't able to. (just signed up)

Hi everyone,

Today I went to my local branch with a check in hand.

Endorsed it

Redeemed in Lawful money
Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411
True name dba Legal name

All seemed well until

I asked if I could update my signature card. she said sure. So under the rather short signature I wrote "Any deposits or withdrawals, herinafter "Events", are made with the intent to receive or handle lawful money. Persuant to title 12USC411. True name dba Legal name

That's when the issues came up. Her argument was that my signature has to be exactly as in my passport, DL etc. I told her I was and pointed her to my legal name. She even said the request for legal money was fine, but if I wanted to use DBA i should open a business account. She wouldn't accept a true name either again stating it has to match my DL and passport...

Then another concern came up. I asked her if she had placed a restrictive endorsement on the check I just deposited. Specially after she said my restrictive endorsment was fine. She said "we have no way of placing a restrictive endorsement" the bank at the receiving end will see and and may choose to decline your withdrawal plus if we see you signing dba while conducting business under your name we will be forced to close your account"

I told her I had a super visor deposit a previous check and she even acknowledged she placed a restrictive endorsement.... This teller told me she didn't see anything. Which is what? Also my account didn't have a signature card on file for some reason. i.e they don't have my SSN or signature. Should I even bother with signing one?

Much appreciated.

You have brought up some very edifying points.

First off you did not endorse the check; you non-endorsed it. The bank will likely consider it a restrictive endorsement. Legally it is a special deposit, not a regular deposit. If you like signing with the dba then do as she says, open a business account.

The Lesson Plan will take you through a paradigm shift about identity, record forming and redeeming lawful money.

Quote:

I asked her if she had placed a restrictive endorsement on the check I just deposited. Specially after she said my restrictive endorsment was fine. She said "we have no way of placing a restrictive endorsement" the bank at the receiving end will see and and may choose to decline your withdrawal...

I think that sentence is confusing because you confused the matter by asking the question. More to the point, don't patrol what is going on inside the bank, on the other side of the counter. Pay attention to your demand and keep a record. You will be fine if you keep it simple and mind your own affairs.

I think rather they did not want you to publish your demand on the Signature Card and thus told you that you do not have one. You not only should have one but you should remember that you have one and even one better, you should have a copy of it. So pay attention...

Do they make you feel suppressed for wanting copies of everything you have signed? I call that conditioning.
10-17-13, 11:58 PM
allodial

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Do they make you feel suppressed for wanting copies of everything you have signed? I call that conditioning.

Its to keep you from keeping a court of record of your own and to save on office supplies--of course they could scan everything and put it on flash drive --but then they would actually have to...

Attachment 1369
work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enlightened

Tried to open my own thread but wasn't able to. (just signed up)

Hi everyone,

Today I went to my local branch with a check in hand.

Endorsed it

Redeemed in Lawful money
Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411
True name dba Legal name

All seemed well until

I asked if I could update my signature card. she said sure. So under the rather short signature I wrote "Any deposits or withdrawals, herinafter "Events", are made with the intent to receive or handle lawful money. Persuant to title 12USC411. True name dba Legal name

That's when the issues came up. Her argument was that my signature has to be exactly as in my passport, DL etc. I told her I was and pointed her to my legal name. She even said the request for legal money was fine, but if I wanted to use DBA i should open a business account. She wouldn't accept a true name either again stating it has to match my DL and passport...

Then another concern came up. I asked her if she had placed a restrictive endorsement on the check I just deposited. Specially after she said my restrictive endorsment was fine. She said "we have no way of placing a restrictive endorsement" the bank at the receiving end will see and and may choose to decline your withdrawal plus if we see you signing dba while conducting business under your name we will be forced to close your account"

I told her I had a super visor deposit a previous check and she even acknowledged she placed a restrictive endorsement.... This teller told me she didn't see anything. Which is what? Also my account didn't have a signature card on file for some reason. i.e they don't have my SSN or signature. Should I even bother with signing one?

Much appreciated.

She might be trying to tell you that the person opening the account not "true name". A simple alternative for 'signing':

Quote:

John for John Doe
10-18-13, 12:10 AM
Brian

Spot in the video where Lawful money fits in.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
10-18-13, 05:34 AM
David Merrill

I will finish later but caught the 6:30 Minute Mark. Thanks for the link!

Quote:

You are actually loaning the bank currency.

- When you make a deposit.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8...dsvoluntar.jpg

Quote:

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...

Make your demand and cause special deposit rather than regular deposit, by non-endorsement.
10-18-13, 11:58 AM
David Merrill

P.S. Following the matter only to the 9:00 Minute Mark from there we find that Title 31 USC §5115 makes it clear:

Quote:

(b) The amount of United States currency notes outstanding and in circulation—

(1) may not be more than $300,000,000; and
(2) may not be held or used for a reserve.

Like I keep saying; Make your demand clear and you get US notes in the form of Federal Reserve notes.
10-18-13, 01:05 PM
David Merrill

2 Attachment(s)

The author draws up short by not specifying that the initial deposit is a general or regular deposit. When a suitor makes demand for lawful money the deposit is special and the bank is in fact bound in trust to simply hold that specific currency in the vault for the account holder.
10-18-13, 01:25 PM
enlightened

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

You have brought up some very edifying points.

First off you did not endorse the check; you non-endorsed it. The bank will likely consider it a restrictive endorsement. Legally it is a special deposit, not a regular deposit. If you like signing with the dba then do as she says, open a business account.

The Lesson Plan will take you through a paradigm shift about identity, record forming and redeeming lawful money.

I think that sentence is confusing because you confused the matter by asking the question. More to the point, don't patrol what is going on inside the bank, on the other side of the counter. Pay attention to your demand and keep a record. You will be fine if you keep it simple and mind your own affairs.

I think rather they did not want you to publish your demand on the Signature Card and thus told you that you do not have one. You not only should have one but you should remember that you have one and even one better, you should have a copy of it. So pay attention...

Do they make you feel suppressed for wanting copies of everything you have signed? I call that conditioning.

Hmm, good point. I did not ask for copies. The reason I never had a signature card was because I signed up for the account online. She said it herself that I did not have one (even before we brought any of the topics here) and could therefore not report any width holdings to the IRS. So I am not sure if I should submit a signature card. I was careful to ask about it before I brought up my demand.

Given that, should I sign one? Navy federal also provides scans of all checks my plan is to ask for a copy of it each quarter to keep for my records.
10-18-13, 01:32 PM
David Merrill

That would likely be an electronic Signature Card then? They should be able to show or print it. Get online and look at the electronic form.

Get both sides of the checks, especially after you begin redeeming lawful money.
10-18-13, 01:53 PM
David Merrill

1 Attachment(s)

Thanks again for that link. I can appreciate destiny and heritage in coherence.

That vault is located on the SE Corner:

Attachment 1374
10-18-13, 02:24 PM
enlightened

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

That would likely be an electronic Signature Card then? They should be able to show or print it. Get online and look at the electronic form.

Get both sides of the checks, especially after you begin redeeming lawful money.

Will do. I have only non-endorsed 2 checks so far. That according to navy federal they are able to provide me with front and back copies. But going forward I will also keep front and back copies of my own.

Come tax season next year I will not include paychecks that have been non-endorsed. Unfortunately, I will have to pay taxes on any income prior to that.
10-18-13, 02:25 PM
enlightened

Quote:

Originally Posted by allodial

Its to keep you from keeping a court of record of your own and to save on office supplies--of course they could scan everything and put it on flash drive --but then they would actually have to...

She might be trying to tell you that the person opening the account not "true name". A simple alternative for 'signing':

Hmmm, I will give that a try. basically john = true name and john doe = legal name? correct?
10-18-13, 02:29 PM
enlightened

Hmm, Just noticed something odd.

I just made a payment on my auto loan online.

I saw my payment was posted immediately after. Before it used to take the money out of my checkings account then 2 or so business days post to my auto loan...

Now it's immediate. Probably co-incidence. HOwever, it is my first time making a payment since non-endorsing paychecks.
10-18-13, 02:54 PM
David Merrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by enlightened

Hmm, Just noticed something odd.

I just made a payment on my auto loan online.

I saw my payment was posted immediately after. Before it used to take the money out of my checkings account then 2 or so business days post to my auto loan...

Now it's immediate. Probably co-incidence. HOwever, it is my first time making a payment since non-endorsing paychecks.

I am not saying it is so but that makes perfect sense within context of my above images. Your non-endorsed paychecks constitute special deposits. Therefore that amount of funding is sitting in the vault. It is a specific set of bills that the bank cannot touch and it is immediately available to you for use.

Before, when you made regular deposits it took a few days to extract the funds from the system of fractional lending. Maybe it would be better viewed as Basil III risk management and final rule, that was holding things up.

That is an interesting observation! Thank you. - And I mean interesting in the original sense of PAY ATTENTION. You have just revealed something very useful.
10-18-13, 02:59 PM
enlightened

Another thing I'd like to point out.

Is that credit unions are insured by the NCUA. Also due to being a credit union funds deposited are lent out to existing customer base instead of investments like in regular banks. Is this still considered elastic trading?

Can credit unions still serve as non-endorsers? Navy federal does not have any checking account product that does not accrue interest. I even asked for mine not to. They said they couldn't do it.

Should I open an account at a regular bank instead?
10-18-13, 03:07 PM
enlightened

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

I am not saying it is so but that makes perfect sense within context of my above images. Your non-endorsed paychecks constitute special deposits. Therefore that amount of funding is sitting in the vault. It is a specific set of bills that the bank cannot touch and it is immediately available to you for use.

Before, when you made regular deposits it took a few days to extract the funds from the system of fractional lending. Maybe it would be better viewed as Basil III risk management and final rule, that was holding things up.

That is an interesting observation! Thank you. - And I mean interesting in the original sense of PAY ATTENTION. You have just revealed something very useful.

I see.

Thing is. The deposits were made into my checkings account which already contained endorsed funds. So essentially there is a mix of lawful money and elastic money.

I highly doubt the existing elastic money has been converted to lawful money simply due to my first non endorsed check.

Maybe lawful money is used first for any and all purchases then it defaults to elastic money once that is depleted?

EDIT:

just made a small payment to one of my credit cards. It did not post immediately. Maybe Credit cards are viewed differently then collateral loans...
10-18-13, 03:38 PM
David Merrill

Yes! You are worth your weight in gold already, having just been cleared to post outright!

Some US Bank (I believe) employees were fired and ten (suitor/trustee) accounts were closed down without explanation. A likely explanation is that the bank was caught by the OCC treating special deposits like regular deposits. So my presumption is that your bank or credit union is treating all funds in your account as non-endorsed special deposits, just to be safe.

We (brain trust) have noticed that credit unions have much less concern about non-endorsement. I did not consider why carefully until you gave me some details. I figure that all you need for fractional lending is insurance for a "run" on the vault. Either the FDIC or the NCUA will run an armored car over should that ever happen. I suspect that the Credit Unions are not bound to federal risk management nearly as strictly as Banks. However the authority would likely be the insurance company?
10-18-13, 03:54 PM
enlightened

hmmm,

I am concerned on why the teller couldn't see any restricted deposits for the last 2 checks...

Maybe tellers can't and it is all done on the back end when they see the non-endorsement. ( I confirmed with the teller that all checks are scanned front and back into the sytem when sent to the actual bank holding the funds ) so it may not matter what the teller says it is all done in the back end. since after all checks deposited at other instutions other then the originating one has to go to the orignal institutional first for release of funds. So when you make your demand the originating institution PAYS in lawful money rather then elastic currency and the record stays with the originating bank.

IF the receiving bank does not acknowledge the lawful money demand and funds... when clearly demanded. They are in breach of contract with federal government. Perhaps rendering them unable to place liens or litigation against you after you show proof paid for by lawful money and can actually in turn sue them for pains and grievances.

I'll try to find the online signature for my account. If I don't have one then I haven't signed and given them the right to report anything to the IRS, or levy, place liens on my account.

I'll go to another branch and update my signature card as I originally intended if that doesn't work. I'll serve them a notice with my intention to demand lawful money.

It's funny, because when she said she didn't see a restricted deposit I said " well, you (the credit union) can get in trouble for that since you are lending out my money when I am clearly not endorsing it" she said " I am choosing to accept your check; we are not required to. I can return the check to you. If you'd like." I told her no I made my demand, you already accepted it and deposited it. it's the credit unions problem if you do not comply.

When I left the bank everyone including people nearby were listening very carefully and looked at me like what did just happen.. lol
10-19-13, 01:50 AM
David Merrill

I tend to avoid being concerned about what is happening on even the other side of the counter.

Quote:

IF the receiving bank does not acknowledge the lawful money demand and funds... when clearly demanded. They are in breach of contract with federal government.

I do not think that is true. It is probably the actions that they do with non-endorsed funds that might get them into trouble.

P.S. Keep your eyes pealed though. I surely appreciate you posting the details that you have observed!
10-19-13, 04:10 AM
allodial

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Yes! You are worth your weight in gold already, having just been cleared to post outright!

Some US Bank (I believe) employees were fired and ten (suitor/trustee) accounts were closed down without explanation. A likely explanation is that the bank was caught by the OCC treating special deposits like regular deposits. So my presumption is that your bank or credit union is treating all funds in your account as non-endorsed special deposits, just to be safe.

We (brain trust) have noticed that credit unions have much less concern about non-endorsement. I did not consider why carefully until you gave me some details. I figure that all you need for fractional lending is insurance for a "run" on the vault. Either the FDIC or the NCUA will run an armored car over should that ever happen. I suspect that the Credit Unions are not bound to federal risk management nearly as strictly as Banks. However the authority would likely be the insurance company?

There is a distinction with respect to a bank or financial institution being a member of an FRB and holding an account at an FRB (i.e. these are clearinghouse accounts for settlement and netting). Credit unions and state banks afaik might hold accounts with an FRB without being a 'member bank'. All national banking associations are required to become FRB members AFAIK.

Related: What is the advantage of putting your money in a Fed member bank versus a bank that is a nonmember? How do you know which banks are Fed members? (Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco).

Quote:

National banks chartered by the federal government are, by law, members of the Federal Reserve System. State-chartered banks may choose to become members of the Federal Reserve System if they meet the standards set by the Board of Governors. Each member bank is required to subscribe to stock in its regional Federal Reserve Bank, but holding Federal Reserve stock is not like holding publicly traded stock. Reserve Bank stock cannot be sold, traded, or pledged as collateral for loans. As specified by law, member banks receive a six percent annual dividend on their Federal Reserve Bank stock; member banks also vote for Class A and Class B directors of the Reserve Bank.

U.S. Bank N.A. is a national banking association chartered under the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency of the U.S. Credit unions, however are typically State chartered financial institutions. Perhaps the aspect of holding stock in an FRB brings with it an encouragement to maximize the profits by feeding off of as many clueless customers as possible? With credit unions and state banks being non-members and non-stock-holders perhaps they could care less--all an FRB might be for them is a clearinghouse rather than a potential profit source.

Quote:

We (brain trust) have noticed that credit unions have much less concern about non-endorsement. I did not consider why carefully until you gave me some details.

It could also be that state banks and credit unions might tend to face more staunch troubles for usury than a nationally associated bank might.
10-25-13, 08:23 PM
enlightened

Just gave it some thought on how it was possible to get an account at Navy Fed without entering a SSN.

I created my account online. And when I call the support line for anything to do with my checkings account they never ask me for my SSN.

But since I have a credit card they do ask me for SSN since it's part of the application process.

So it turns out I don't have my bank account tied to a SSN and haven't signed a signature card perse
11-07-13, 04:45 PM
Keith Alan

I hope this is a good place for a question. If not, my apologies. Anyway, recently the credit union I use started asking people to sign for cash received. In other words, the deposit is made, and if you want cash back - even small amounts - they ask for a signature on one of those electronic signature recorders.

I think that's interesting. Has anyone experienced this? Or is it something my credit union is doing, for whatever reason?

Also, if one makes the demand while using the signature recorder, wouldn't that suffice as proof of demand?