Printable View
Hey Guys.
Thought i would pose this question here as there seems to be quite a bit of knowledge floating around these forums. I have received notice of bankruptcy from my mortgage company and was wondering if there is a way to flip this on their heads and become a creditor to them and file a proof of claim or something to set off the debt.
Anyone have any ideas or knowledge in this area?
From what I've seen on CNN, that mortgage note will be sold to someone else.
There is no way to "flip it on their heads".
The only way to get out of the mortgage is to pay it off (discharge) or foreclosure.
A mortgage is a pledge, a pawn, a pignus.
Thanks for your response shikamaru.
That's kinda what i figured. But after hearing some things about contracts and valuable consideration and the like concerning foreclosures, i thought i would see if anyone had any ideas. Would have been nice to have a little fun with the damnable banksters.
Here is a little history on the mortgage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
A gage is a medieval financial instrument. There were two primary types: a vif-gage and a mortgage.
A gage is a pawn, pledge, or pignus (L.).
A vif-gage would be assumed to be some income producing asset; therefore, the asset would eventually pay off the debt from its profits.
A mortgage is where the asset does not pay off the debt; therefore, the borrower has to cough up the principal. The creditor gets all the profits. This was presumed to be akin to usury during that time.
A mortgage is a secured debt. The house and land are the security for the loan.
The mortgage note is the bond. The mortgagor is the issuer. The mortgagee is the creditor.
In the past, the title to the security was transferred to the creditor until discharged. Once discharged, the borrower has the right of redemption.
Today, a lien takes the place of the transferal of title.
In sum, a mortgage is a pledge. Pledging is bad news generally.
Thanks for the additional info. I always enjoy learning something new :)
Quote:
Men should pledge themselves to nothing; for reflection makes a liar of their resolution.
Sophocles
We haven't even covered the concept of equity in finance yet :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
The pulpit is all yours:) you'll have at least one interested party.
http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...-%28finance%29Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
That is very interesting. So how should one go about controlling and not owning, is that done through trusts or some other contrivance? Can one set oneself up in such a way that they are always the first paid, kind of like the UCC stuff?
Sorry if that sounds a bit daft, but i have been learning a whole lot about a whole lot and haven't quite zeroed in my knowledge as of yet. From all the stuff i have found online and read, most have just left me with more questions and doubts. Most of the gurus only seem to have a lot of theories and not much in the way of evidence. That is why i am glad to have finally found this place-good knowledgeable people, great theories, and evidence-the trifecta :)
The model I practice is called the public-private model. It is binary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
The private side is lawful and stresses private ownership with property held in allod. Gold and silver specie. No debts, onerous contracts, and other entanglements here.
The public side is legal and stresses business. This is where interests, contracts, as well as FRNs. This is where debt is housed.
The private side is ownership in allod.
The public side is control with shared ownership with others.
You keep both sides separate with strictly defined interfaces between them.
In addition, the model also supplemented with a lifeboat strategy as well as a bugout plan.
Stay away from the UCC stuff. Much of it is garbage.
A trust is a method of controlling property as well as shielding from liability. Before you do anything though, one must know their reasons for doing such along with a plan.
This model may not be a fit for most people for it requires having a high degree of knowledge in both law and finance.
I do like the concept of binary, being a programmer that description is very satisfactory.:)
Is that not the basic system that was established for all of us, except that none of us were told there was such a thing as private and we all filled the role of our public persona all the time.
How does one acquire anything on the private side without going through some commercial process-with the exception of private-to-private contracts-and thereby having to dawn the public persona? What is the vehicle for transference? When redeeming lawful money is that considered a private transaction?
Yes, i agree on the UCC stuff, i am sure there is some validity to some things, but i don't really want to play their game, i just want out. I think a fair majority of the UCCers are by nature antagonistic and want some kind of vengeance. I on the contrary just want to be left the hell alone.
Programmer, eh? Well, I am a server engineer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
Many ways. One way is to produce or build it yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
Another way is to pay cash. Cash affords anonymity and privacy.
Draw up your contracts as private and tender gold and or silver coin at law.
Avoid registration.
Avoid insurance.
Avoid licensing.
Avoid controversy.
Practice privacy.
Practice competent administration.
There is also the issue of capacity in addition to establishing an evidence repository with respect to some major purchases.
You can buy right the first time as well as avoid credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
David Merrill would have to answer that question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
That is a bit beyond me, i manage quite a few of them, but i could not engineer one if my life depended on such. Majored in networking not quite sure how i ended up as a consultant with a heavy emphasis on the development, but such is life. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru
In theory that all sounds great, but having no precious metals, and being required to have contracts on the commercial/public side, getting them to agree to such terms is pretty laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru
I would love to drop insurance, registration and the like, but to be honest i am not that brave yet (having a family of five to support and being the sole provider, somewhat dampens the courage in the face of possible imprisonment)
I have MUCH to learn, and i thank you sincerely for sharing with me your time and your knowledge.
These are great times to be a server guy :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
Virtualization, cloud computing, SANs, datacenters, .... nothing but fun :).
I'm really digging Powershell. M$ is doing some good stuff these days. Linux is always fun.
Customers .... not so much fun :[.
Theory becomes practice through application.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
Application influences, refines, and creates theory.
It is a feedback loop.
I do have precious metals. I draft my own contracts as well.
If people want paper notes over metals, give'em banknotes. There are exceptions to this guideline.
Start small. Continue studying. Preparation takes time anyways.
Allow me divulge a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru
This is something you work into. Just as it takes time to move a program through planning, development, testing, implementation, and maintenance lifecycle, it takes time to work into this.
The program is not an all or none. Do bits and pieces. Do what you can. Slowly move towards where you want to be.
Given you do take care of others, they are dependent upon the system. You need those insurances, registration, and the like .... for now :).
This model also represents a change in mindset. You'll be deprogramming yourself over time. Given all the years of indoctrination and inculcation of ideas and values you have endured, it will take to undo that.
It will take you years to reach a threshold that comforts you, but slow growth is good.
A poor or middle class probably couldn't handle having wealth all at once. A person must work up and into it. Give the mind and habits periods of adjustment.
I recommend beginning with a study on contracts. Treatises are a favorite of mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself
I think in time you'll develop your own style and philosophy that works for you. That is what it is ultimately about in my opinion.
Most on this board have found theirs.
You just reminded me that I will need to write a treatise on this model sometime in the future.
I have some thoughts, but 1st, a question: did you get "noticed" by the US-Bankruptcy Court, or the "mortgage company", sort-of in "fyi" terms?Quote:
Originally Posted by Himself