My first attempt at demanding lawful money...

I went to my bank today to see if I can get my signature card changed to reflect my demand for lawful money. I was friendly about it and so was the rep and bank manager whom I usually deal with, even though they had no idea what I was talking about. They actually showed some interest. Of course, they had to make a call to see if they could do it. They said they would call me when they got a response, so I left.

I received a call about thirty minutes later informing me they 'do not do that type of restricted endorsement'. I asked them to send me a letter letting stating their decision and/or policy. That way, I figure, I have proof that I at least demanded lawful money.

David, how does one explain the difference between 'legal name' and 'real name' to a bank official? Is there a legal reference relative to their construction?

I suppose it is time to move my account to another bank.

Hugh

Maybe not yet. Get a copy of your Authorized Signature agreement. See how that goes.

Please don't take this as being evasive, but I do not think it is any productive use to explain about name to banks. You could close the account and open a new one for example and sign any way that you like; if they tell you to walk, then you can go looking for another bank.

Try saying, I don't want to close the account. I want to redeem lawful money with every transaction, including electronic transactions. If they are trying to get rid of you they will close out your account and have you sign for the funds they give you. That is when you say, I don't want to close the account. I want to redeem lawful money with every transaction, including electronic transactions.

Do you start to get it?

They cannot close your account for you. All they can do is convince you to close your account. Instead of being a restrictive endorsement consider it correcting your signature. You need to correct your signature from a naked contract to redemption of lawful money specified.

If it is your style though, open a new bank account with the Demand on the Signature Card first and it will probably be a lot more fun, less stress.

Thanks, David. That actually helps a lot! I AM slowly starting to get it.

The bank manager informs me they do not allow restricted endorsement (even after I told him I simply want to correct my signature card). When I specified that the law allows me to redeem lawful money at any federal reserve bank, he states their bank is not a federal reserve bank. They are insured through the FDIC - does that make them a 'federal reserve bank'?

With going to a different bank to open an account, should I just sign the signature card (First Middle, etc.), without even mentioning 'lawful money redemption'? Perhaps they won't notice? I'm hoping I can find a bank that will comply!

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Originally Posted by Hugh Mannity

The bank manager informs me they do not allow restricted endorsement (even after I told him I simply want to correct my signature card). When I specified that the law allows me to redeem lawful money at any federal reserve bank, he states their bank is not a federal reserve bank. They are insured through the FDIC - does that make them a 'federal reserve bank'?

With going to a different bank to open an account, should I just sign the signature card (First Middle, etc.), without even mentioning 'lawful money redemption'? Perhaps they won't notice? I'm hoping I can find a bank that will comply!

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Hoping they don't notice doesn't cut it. They must have their opportunity to Refuse for Cause. If you don't notify them the novation to the agreement is void.

Pretty quick into the 1913 Federal Reserve Act we get a good description that your bank is a Fed bank:

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9...nksdefined.jpg

Additionally being FDIC insured means that the "elastic currency" is guaranteed - that they will run over with an armored car to replenish your supply of Fed notes if you ever run victim of a run...

But there is something wrong here. Did you get a copy of your Signature Card?

There is something askew if you went back in, tried to change it again and to date you do not have a copy of something that you signed. I am not knocking you for it because we are all like that and a few of us used to be like that. You should quit being like that if you want to start exploring this at all. Do you get that?

I actually did not go back in for a second time - the manager called me today and told me this over the phone. I WILL go in and get a copy of my signature card. I'm not quite sure where to go from there and I will read what I actually agreed to with my signature on that card and see what actions arise from that. Thanks for your feedback and I am open to learning.

That is great!

Now consider that you will not sign anything without an exact copy in your possession for the remainder of your life.

Consider asking to read the Tariff. It is possible that is not yours enough to copy or photograph but in order to do informed business you get to read it, at least. I only know of one suitor who demanded to read it and it took them about a half hour to figure out they should let him. They let him read it there in the lobby of the bank. It is about 100 pages of three-ring binder material so that it can be easily updated and amended. Basically the tariff is the agreement between the bank and the Treasury, I believe the OCC (Office of the Comptroller of the Currency) specifically.

David - Okay, I got a copy of my signature card and I'm not quite sure what I am looking for. I DID go back into the bank today to talk to the manager. I took him a copy of what you posted (Chap 6 of the Federal Reserve Act), he read it and replied that "while their bank is part of the Federal Reserve system,(which I took to mean a 'member bank', since the Federal Reserve system consists of 12 Fed Res banks) it is NOT a Federal Reserve bank". So, does being a member bank make them a Federal Reserve bank (as stated in USC 12 ?411)? I'm not reading in the definition provided above where it specifically states a national bank is considered a Federal Reserve bank - just that they are member banks, and not the distinct entity called a Federal Reserve bank. I am researching to see if it is stated anywhere in the Act that a member bank is actually considered a Fed Res bank. Any H - E - L - P would be appreciated! I want to start redeeming lawful money!!! (dammit)! :-)

I found this online:
"The stockholders in the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks are the privately owned banks that fall under the Federal Reserve System. These include all national banks (chartered by the federal government) and those state-chartered banks that wish to join and meet certain requirements. About 38 percent of the nation’s more than 8,000 banks are members of the system, and thus own the Fed banks."

If one is an "owner" (or part owner-member bank) of a Federal Reserve bank, does that make them a Federal reserve bank (as per the language of 12USC 411)? I'm not thinking so. The more I am researching this, the more I am seeing that the redemption of lawful money at 'any Federal Reserve bank' (as per 12USC 411), means one of the 12 district Federal Reserve Banks, and not one of the member banks. From 12USC ?411:

"The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks..." [my emphasis]. The language makes a distinction between national and member banks AND Federal Reserve banks.

You have a way of making his point for him alright. I get drawn in while reading it.

The point to keep on is whether you have the right to make a demand. I am gathering that you have electronic transfer set up? You get your paychecks deposited electronically?

If you want to get this done then, publish your demand and serve that on your bank.

David,
I am not trying to make his point for him. I just haven't been able to get past this with him. My next step was to write a letter to the bank making known my demand.
I like the idea of publishing my demand and serving it on the bank. I haven't found much of that on the Forum on how to do that. Is there a template or instruction set for constructing a proper notice and demand? Where does it get published? I assume it is also sent to the bank? I apologize for all the questions... still getting my bearings.

I deposit checks into an account as well as receive electronic payments via credit card merchants.

Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hugh Mannity

David,
I am not trying to make his point for him. I just haven't been able to get past this with him. My next step was to write a letter to the bank making known my demand.
I like the idea of publishing my demand and serving it on the bank. I haven't found much of that on the Forum on how to do that. Is there a template or instruction set for constructing a proper notice and demand? Where does it get published? I assume it is also sent to the bank? I apologize for all the questions... still getting my bearings.

I deposit checks into an account as well as receive electronic payments via credit card merchants.

Thanks again.

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This website is like an echo chamber for some inner workings where people can read without being involved. In other words we encourage an evidence repository in the federal courthouse for your record-forming. I will see if I can sanitize an example today.

Sign with a public notary and acquire a Commission Certificate with the Secretary of State on that notary. Publish the Demand and CC with the county clerk and recorder and have the county C&R mail that directly to the USDC evidence repository. Then get a certified copy of that from the US clerk of court and have it served on the nearest Federal Reserve Bank by a professional process server and then that Proof of Service on the entire package, on your bank. Then it is done. You don't need to change your Signature Card.

UPDATE! Walked into a PNC bank today (where I also have an account), told the branch rep I want all transactions on my account to be in lawful money (as per 12USC411) and that I need to change my signature card to reflect my intent (I showed him the law). He says, "NO PROBLEM". So now, my signature card reads, "All transactions, paper or electronic, redeemed in lawful money pursuant to 12USC411" (plus my signature). I will now close out my account at the bank I've been having issues with, and deposit THAT check in my other account to be redeemed in lawful money.

P.S. I took the advice from Rock Anthony (which I found in another thread) regarding not saying too much when making my demand. I didn't say anything about 'US Notes, restricted endorsement, etc. Thanks, Rock and David.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hugh Mannity

UPDATE! Walked into a PNC bank today (where I also have an account), told the branch rep I want all transactions on my account to be in lawful money (as per 12USC411) and that I need to change my signature card to reflect my intent (I showed him the law). He says, "NO PROBLEM". So now, my signature card reads, "All transactions, paper or electronic, redeemed in lawful money pursuant to 12USC411" (plus my signature). I will now close out my account at the bank I've been having issues with, and deposit THAT check in my other account to be redeemed in lawful money.

P.S. I took the advice from Rock Anthony (which I found in another thread) regarding not saying too much when making my demand. I didn't say anything about 'US Notes, restricted endorsement, etc. Thanks, Rock and David.

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I would think mentioning "restricted endorsement" would spook the pants of the bank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hugh Mannity

UPDATE! Walked into a PNC bank today (where I also have an account), told the branch rep I want all transactions on my account to be in lawful money (as per 12USC411) and that I need to change my signature card to reflect my intent (I showed him the law). He says, "NO PROBLEM". So now, my signature card reads, "All transactions, paper or electronic, redeemed in lawful money pursuant to 12USC411" (plus my signature). I will now close out my account at the bank I've been having issues with, and deposit THAT check in my other account to be redeemed in lawful money.

P.S. I took the advice from Rock Anthony (which I found in another thread) regarding not saying too much when making my demand. I didn't say anything about 'US Notes, restricted endorsement, etc. Thanks, Rock and David.

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http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/7...tampedover.png

You are quite welcome! You have shared a real growth lesson with us here... Thank you!!

Look at how tacky this is:

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/7...tampedover.png

Bank of America has been putting their endorsement over the account-holder's non-endorsement! He complained and first the tellers got upset with him. So he spoke to a higher administrator and he said, Just make sure you instruct the tellers not to cover up your verbiage.

The teller had to have the last jab though.

How do you know I wont just cover it up after you leave?




Solution: Make the snotty teller give you a copy of the check, front and back... then for good measure make her notarize your short statement about snotty tellers, mentioning her by name below that.