Stamping the Front of Government Checks

I just got a question from a suitor:

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On the government check I receive should I stamp on the front of check 12USC sec. 411.... also or just the back of check?

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On a government check, yes. Stamp the frontside too, but only if you understand yourself the trustee, at least over the contract of redemption according to the Fed Act. Otherwise we leave the frontside, even on the dollar bills to the author - government. In the case of the bills that is the Secretary and the US Treasurer.

I believe the Secretary is signing the Refund checks. Or his agent.

So if you understand and wish to exercise your authority to order government, stamp the front side.

Be careful though, that is the domain of the authorizing party - the front. So you might get into trouble. In my estimation it is your ignorance generating fear that might get you into the trouble.

I would avoid the front. I wouldn't doubt if a bank would reject it. Of course, per customary laws of bills of exchange acceptance can be done on the front or the back.

Nearly a decade ago we (brain trust) mulled over putting the Demand on the front of the suitors' personal checks. I even came across the standard perforated endorsement paper for printing checks. So I can word it however I want, if I want to write checks. But putting the Demand on the front of the check is making the demand for the recipient of the check. Or, at least that is how I feel about it.

So for the lawn boy, accepting payment by check I would really need to discuss the demand for redemption and wait for his request/demand. For subordinate government, I would need to understand our relationship.

In my view, it is technically fine to stamp the front especially if you consider that stamping "Redeemed for lawful money. /s/ Redeemer" is perhaps akin to acceptance for value. There might be regulations somewhere on how redemption of clearinghouse certificates was accomplished. It would seem likely they would have been be stamped "REDEEMED" or the like and taken out of clearinghouse circulation.

The issue is dealing with the clueless. And I have come across many a clueless bank employee who are just egging to win points by find something illegal even if its perfectly legal and lawful.

Attachment 3505

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For subordinate government, ...

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With that perspective, one could go as far as serializing one's stamp and registering it with the Secretary of the Treasury. Of course, I would suggest keeping a register of the check # or bill # of whatever it is that is being redeemed.

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REDEEMED FOR LAWFUL MONEY
Registration No. 05915096-X09
/s/ {Scribble}
TREASURY DEPARTMENT REGISTERED

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John Doe
c/o w/e

Secretary:

Memorandum and Registration No. 0000000000

The undersigned Registrant hereby notifies you that he/she when redeeming bills or the like for lawful money shall utilize a stamp or the like bearing "Registration No. 0000000000" In connection with said redeeming, a register is to be kept and maintained wherein shall be entered particulars of the bills or the like which are redeemed.

The undersigned Registrant claims the right to redeem bills or the like for lawful money in special pursuance to (bleh USC bleh) and has the right to do so. etc.

{inside of a box}
[ ]

In the box above, I have included a specimen of the stamp for your convenience. This memorandum is not intended to have any monetary value.

/s/ Scribble.

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If you register the stamp, then you can more solidly tell them where to stick their attitude and if they don't like it you'll be happy to the U.S. Attorney or the Secretary of the Treasury or the State AG to report their conspiracy against your rights, etc.

Thank you. That was a long time ago and I am really rehashing the issue in hope of rediscovering any useful information that appertains to subsequent developments, including my own understanding. I appreciate the clearinghouse being brought into the issue.

How does this relate to the routing number?

P.S. That makes sense since the Demand is technically of the Treasury.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury...


It seems to me though, that by registering the check number/serial number with the Treasury you would compel the banker handling it to make any such deposits, from your checks, to be special. Here is where your "ignorance factor" comes in. The bank manager having to treat your checks as special would probably prod him into hoping to find something "illegal" about redemption, in order to save what could be quite a bit of work, not only for himself but for the entire central banking industry.

Attachment 3506

The routing number on a Treasury check is to a bank in the Treasury Department. The routing number for a 'regular check' is like an IP address, the first two digits showing which Federal Reserve district the 'bank port' is hanging off of and ..well you know where that leads: as in the first two digits are prima facie evidence of the issuer being in a Federal Reserve district.

Routing number is a convention for the postal/courier side of banking system. Thusly it is always an FRS issue if the routing number associates with a Federal Reserve district per ABA convention. If it points outside the FRB then it would likely be Treasury matter especially if its not a domestic item.

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

P.S. That makes sense since the Demand is technically of the Treasury.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury...


It seems to me though, that by registering the check number/serial number with the Treasury you would compel the banker handling it to make any such deposits, from your checks, to be special. Here is where your "ignorance factor" comes in. The bank manager having to treat your checks as special would probably prod him into hoping to find something "illegal" about redemption, in order to save what could be quite a bit of work, not only for himself but for the entire central banking industry.

Attachment 3506

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Likely you can prod the FBI or the Treasury or the US Attorney to find something illegal about unjust weights and balances, racketeering or conspiracy against rights. If you have registered your 'plate' or 'stamp' with the Secretary I would say they would have to be bold to be willing to lose teeth in quantity. Remember, you mentioned "subordinate government". If you are assisting the treasury in carrying out their duties out of necessity, they would be interfering with official duties or with the exercise of ministerial powers. You'd, privately, be a treasury agent for all practical purposes. BTW, where do they get their licenses from? One can add that "I'm assisting you..." + a claim of your rights to do the redemption to the memo.

I have been in the position where I had to exercise duties because someone else would not. Being bonded against errors, omissions or the like would likely help immensely.

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Originally Posted by allodial

The routing number on a Treasury check is to a bank in the Treasury Department. The routing number for a 'regular check' is like an IP address, the first two digits showing which Federal Reserve district the 'bank port' is hanging off of and ..well you know where that leads: as in the first two digits are prima facie evidence of the issuer being in a Federal Reserve district.

Routing number is a convention for the postal/courier side of banking system. Thusly it is always an FRS issue if the routing number associates with a Federal Reserve district per ABA convention. If it points outside the FRB then it would likely be Treasury matter especially if its not a domestic item.

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That is flattering you presume I would have thought that through. My ability to find images is not unequal to my ability to remember and retain things. For example in looking for that backside endorsement form, standard for checks my search words turned up other images. Thanks for mentioning it.

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P.S. I also note that we have gathered a "crowd" in this Category. I suppose that some Members and Readers are buddies with alerts when you and I post.

I have some errands.

Plus it seems that by responding before you have finished editing and vice versa, we juxtaposition for later readers. I am going to broadcast a link here to the suitors and see what is here later.

Thank you Allodial. I am also hopeful Michael Joseph can add some of his insights.

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http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/attac...0&d=1457025100

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A specimen of what a certificate might look like for evidencing and logging bill redemption. Of course the presumption is that the Registrar has registered by sending a Memorandum of Registration to the Secretary of the Treasury though registration is not necessary. The point here is by registering and asserting the right, one aims to eliminate or greatly reduce 'friction'.

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Attachment 3565

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Of course, this produces more business for the stamp makers. Ten digits to reduce the likelihood of using the same # as someone else, one could even add more digits. There is site which features utilities for generating random alphanumeric strings called random.org. Here is a direct link. If you have any reservations to make in the document, of course that is up to you. Conceivably "1UYD4XH5MP" is a legitimate stamp or registration number. However, note that some letters or numbers look alike such as 0 and O, 5 and S so you might avoid using one of them by editing the say "S" to be '5'.

To get uppercase letters added to the random string, you'll probably want to check the correct box.

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Attachment 3566

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Also, instead of keeping a register book with its own list AND sending in certificates one can simply have the register book be made of the original certificates. The wording on the Bill Redemption Certificate of course would need to change to avoid mention of any separate book except maybe that the original is to be kept in one's register book (one can buy over-sized lab books (oversized because how else can you fit letter-sized pages without folding them?) and glue the originals to the pages). Of course, one can still use a court repository for all documents. One might add certificates of service and have documents notarized.

Also, one could avoid sending excessive paperwork out by sending notices to "interested parties" to turn their attention to PACER. However, I would file those notices like Certificates of Service in a case jacket. The order of events of course might minimally be:

1. Memorandum of Registration
2. Stamp made with number (can be alphanumeric) to match the registration number
3. Bill redemption using stamp with records kept via redemption Certificates sent to repository, etc.

Related:
Eureka Lab Book (Oversized)
Book Factory (Oversized Lab Books)