W-4 form and the intent for Lawful Money, first step to getting a mistake corrected.

This woman is a newbie to our local study group but very brilliant, has not been with us a month yet and already doing well making some bold moves. This normally takes about 30 days to get processed for withholding to be changed, but somehow they did it her next paycheck.
Next we will work on state withholding and then see what we can do about the Fica and Medicare.
First image is how she learned how to do the W-4, second image may be a little blurry but if you look in the first line of withholding you will see there is no major federal withholding taken out any more and she just gave herself a raise, was so excited she even had thoughts of early retirement. would that be great or what?
Attachment 383Attachment 384

You put nothing in the credit and deductions area, suggest just to X that out.

Is everyone with me on on this? If measures are taken not to have withholding at all then there is no reason for suitors to go file a return at the end of the year to get back the lawful money that is needed.

It does not seem it is most suitors interest the way we understand it otherwise in our study group locally the context of keeping it all in treasury to redeem coupons and eventually not even have to do do that to get utilities started in the home an such, that way eventually no money should be needed as stated in various documents.
[ See Page 2]
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...thkey=CMfv6uQO

That is some great exploration Motla68! Thank you for sharing that.

There is one blaring problem that seems to have been overcome. The scenario is that an employer, payroll or personnel calls up the 800 # for inquiring about such things and gets a low level IRS agent who says give them Zero Exemptions just to be safe. The employee will get everthing back they deserve after paying their fair share.

So the employer complies and the employee is on a marked up Tax Protester category and likely to get the Axe next time layoffs roll around.

My presumption is that the IRS is being careful enough to keep trained people answering who are informed about Title 12 U.S.C. §411, or at least this woman lucked out or has an informed employer. My policy before seeing this example has been to keep the employer out of the redemption process. Since a suitor would not be keeping an interest bearing account with a Redeemed Lawful Money Signature Card anyway it all comes back. Now it would be good to have your cash flow on time so in my video I suggest after you get a full refund, then you might approach your employer about the Withholdings.

Thank you for showing us how that could be done without much risk of losing one's job.



Regards,

David Merrill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Merrill

That is some great exploration Motla68! Thank you for sharing that.

There is one blaring problem that seems to have been overcome. The scenario is that an employer, payroll or personnel calls up the 800 # for inquiring about such things and gets a low level IRS agent who says give them Zero Exemptions just to be safe. The employee will get everthing back they deserve after paying their fair share.

So the employer complies and the employee is on a marked up Tax Protester category and likely to get the Axe next time layoffs roll around.

My presumption is that the IRS is being careful enough to keep trained people answering who are informed about Title 12 U.S.C. §411, or at least this woman lucked out or has an informed employer. My policy before seeing this example has been to keep the employer out of the redemption process. Since a suitor would not be keeping an interest bearing account with a Redeemed Lawful Money Signature Card anyway it all comes back. Now it would be good to have your cash flow on time so in my video I suggest after you get a full refund, then you might approach your employer about the Withholdings.

Thank you for showing us how that could be done without much risk of losing one's job.



Regards,

David Merrill.

---

Hi David,

I am looking for the starting point for this idea. I realize it may not be so cut and dried, but where should I go to begin to understand this process? Having a link or two in this thread would be a great help.

Thank you,
earthshake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthshake

Hi David,

I am looking for the starting point for this idea. I realize it may not be so cut and dried, but where should I go to begin to understand this process? Having a link or two in this thread would be a great help.

Thank you,
earthshake

---

I produced two videos. The first one has a great article in it but I applied a computer voice read-along that I often regret.

http://os.cloudme.com/v1/documents/2...e%20Credit.wmv

http://os.cloudme.com/v1/documents/2...-%20Remedy.wmv


Let me know if you can get these off the Cloud please?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Merrill

I produced two videos. The first one has a great article in it but I applied a computer voice read-along that I often regret.

http://os.cloudme.com/v1/documents/2...e%20Credit.wmv

http://os.cloudme.com/v1/documents/2...-%20Remedy.wmv

Let me know if you can get these off the Cloud please?

---

I'm prompted to enter a username and password whenever I follow the links you provided.

Perhaps you can upload those videos to the Downloads section of this site.

Yes, I will give that a try. Here they are on Google Docs:

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1E...1MGEy&hl=en_US

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1E...3NWE5&hl=en_US

Hi David,
I have watched both videos. Here's what I understand up to this point, and please correct me if I am wrong. Setting aside the whys and wherefores for now:

We essentially have 2 forms of government: The US Government and the Federal Government.

Federal Reserve Notes (FRN's) are lawful elastic money, aka called private credit because the Federal Reserve Banks is privately owned.

U.S. Notes (now called U.S. Currency Notes) are lawful in-elastic money - aka public money because they are issued by the U.S. Government.

Fractional reserve banking practices can be applied to elastic money but not to in-elastic money.

When I endorse a check with just my signature, that creates a presumption by the Fed/IRS that I understand I am agreeing to use their private credit, and am therefore required to pay income tax on those funds, over and above $1000 per year.

So instead of agreeing further, I may endorse checks: "Redeemed in Lawful Money Pursuant to Title 12 U.S.C. Sec. 411, My Name, My Legal Name on Paycheck". This process eliminates income tax liability (but save copies of checks to prove it to the irs at the end of the year) and reduces the national debt.

Is that the gist of this?

If so, these questions arise:

What is done to refuse private credit if one receives electronic deposits from companies that are not local to them, or receives a check in the mail and cannot go to the bank upon which it is drawn?

Will the bank only give me cash, or does the money in my account now represent in-elastic money by some accounting process?

Thank you,
earthshake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthshake

Hi David,
I have watched both videos. Here's what I understand up to this point, and please correct me if I am wrong. Setting aside the whys and wherefores for now:

We essentially have 2 forms of government: The US Government and the Federal Government.

More like two forms of currency in circulation - US notes (US currency notes) are in limited circulation between the 12 Fed Banks only so that they do not wear out by handling. They are not to be used for a reserve currency so they are inelastic.

Federal Reserve Notes (FRN's) are lawful elastic money, aka called private credit because the Federal Reserve Banks is privately owned.

It is being elastic that prevents FRN's from being fully lawful money and the law stipulates they may be redeemed in lawful money - US notes.

U.S. Notes (now called U.S. Currency Notes) are lawful in-elastic money - aka public money because they are issued by the U.S. Government.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by US v Rickman; 638 F.2d 182

In the exercise of that power Congress has declared that Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender and are redeemable in lawful money.

---

and

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by US v Ware; 608 F.2d 400

United States notes shall be lawful money, and a legal tender in payment of all debts, public and private, within the United States, except for duties on imports and interest on the public debt.

---

Congress has the authority to define money - the courts describe money accurately. However the January 1, 2011 Memorandum to IRS agents mis-applies Rickman so citing this with your Return is no longer wise - as it may not be brought to the attention of an IRS attorney these days.

Fractional reserve banking practices can be applied to elastic money but not to in-elastic money.

Yes. For a better explanation Click Here.

When I endorse a check with just my signature, that creates a presumption by the Fed/IRS that I understand I am agreeing to use their private credit, and am therefore required to pay income tax on those funds, over and above $1000 per year.

Actually that is $6K I believe, before you are required to file at all. The $1K is an exemption that may still be applied, I don't know, on coinage as lawful money. Understand that the 1984 Author was not aware apparently that the same Demand in Title 12 U.S.C. §411 could be applied to all cash - US notes in the form of FRN's.

So instead of agreeing further, I may endorse checks: "Redeemed in Lawful Money Pursuant to Title 12 U.S.C. Sec. 411, My Name, My Legal Name on Paycheck". This process eliminates income tax liability (but save copies of checks to prove it to the irs at the end of the year) and reduces the national debt.

Is that the gist of this?

Yes. Thank you for sharing first impressions. It helps teach me what people glean from the videos.


Thank you,
earthshake

---

If so, these questions arise:

What is done to refuse private credit if one receives electronic deposits from companies that are not local to them, or receives a check in the mail and cannot go to the bank upon which it is drawn?

This may be done on the Signature Card or through Payroll where you work. Just go correct your Authorizing Signature to make Demand for Lawful Money on all transactions. Be aware though, you have to be confident and polite - not demanding with your employer. Don't get yourself fired because you are obstinant.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...

Any way you can get your demand on the record will suffice. So let's say Payroll tells you that you cannot change or specially sign your Signature Card for Direct Deposit. Ask for paychecks? If they do not want to do that, request that they make note that you requested it? Any way to make the record show your intent - after that you are redeeming lawful money.



Will the bank only give me cash, or does the money in my account now represent in-elastic money by some accounting process?


This is only when you are getting cash in hand.

Ever notice how Office Max or PetSmart will have you sign for cash? They want you to endorse that it is private credit. I enjoy messing with them about it. Used to anyway. Now I just sign, Lawful Money and move on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

Actually that is $6K I believe, before you are required to file at all. The $1K is an exemption that may still be applied, I don't know, on coinage as lawful money. Understand that the 1984 Author was not aware apparently that the same Demand in Title 12 U.S.C. §411 could be applied to all cash - US notes in the form of FRN's.

---

Correct . The amount is currently $6,000 according to I.R.S. Publication 3453 (11-1999) . I have used this little info a lot over the years . The trap comes in the withholding racket .This Publication has not been updated apparently for a long time . I look for an update most every year , just to be sure .

Copy on line : Thank You for Not Filing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Merrill

If so, these questions arise:

What is done to refuse private credit if one receives electronic deposits from companies that are not local to them, or receives a check in the mail and cannot go to the bank upon which it is drawn?

This may be done on the Signature Card or through Payroll where you work. Just go correct your Authorizing Signature to make Demand for Lawful Money on all transactions. Be aware though, you have to be confident and polite - not demanding with your employer. Don't get yourself fired because you are obstinant.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...

Any way you can get your demand on the record will suffice. So let's say Payroll tells you that you cannot change or specially sign your Signature Card for Direct Deposit. Ask for paychecks? If they do not want to do that, request that they make note that you requested it? Any way to make the record show your intent - after that you are redeeming lawful money.



Will the bank only give me cash, or does the money in my account now represent in-elastic money by some accounting process?


This is only when you are getting cash in hand.

Ever notice how Office Max or PetSmart will have you sign for cash? They want you to endorse that it is private credit. I enjoy messing with them about it. Used to anyway. Now I just sign, Lawful Money and move on.

---

Hi David, Thanks for your reply. I am not sure what you are referring to when you wrote "This is only when you are getting cash in hand"?

I work from home and receive payments through Clickbank, PayPal and a couple other sources. So I am still not clear if the money is private money when they pay me, or does it become private money when I spend it? This isn't clear to me because if I am getting a check on a local bank, it is when I endorse it - so it is in a sort of limbo (for a few minutes, lol!) from the time of receipt to the time of cashing/depositing. Is that correct?

Around here, if I get cash back at a store, I don't have to sign for it. I was thinking that once it is in a bank account, it is private money. In video one, in the article it says it would be "advantageous" to use cash and postal money orders. Oh, that is another question I have about paying a mortgage. Would paying the monthly payments with a postal money order be paying it with public money, therefore actually buying it instead of discharging the debt with private money?

Thanks,
es

Whenever somebody is handing you cash, postage stamps or money orders - lawful money of the US - and they want you to sign for it, assume they are asking you for endorsement of private credit. Sign your demand for lawful money rather than an endorsement.

Just some things I noticed...I am looking at the "Deposit Ticket" for the bank we use, a local cooperative. There is a line that says "SIGN HERE IF CASH RECEIVED FROM DEPOSIT". I small print it says "BE SURE EACH ITEM IS PROPERLY ENDORSED."

Please remind what the "demand for lawful money" wording is again?

Before now I always wondered why I had to endorse MY OWN checks when I want to cash one, too. So, it appears to me, and correct me if I am wrong, I could go to our bank and write a check for the balance in our checking account, sign with the "Redeemed In Lawful Money Pursuant to" statement, and receive same back. The same way a paycheck can be redeemed for lawful money.

Question on the name. Is "my name" the name I go by, and my dba name is my full name? Or is it the exact name that the check is made out to?

Thank you!
ES

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthshake

Just some things I noticed...I am looking at the "Deposit Ticket" for the bank we use, a local cooperative. There is a line that says "SIGN HERE IF CASH RECEIVED FROM DEPOSIT". I small print it says "BE SURE EACH ITEM IS PROPERLY ENDORSED."

Please remind what the "demand for lawful money" wording is again?

Before now I always wondered why I had to endorse MY OWN checks when I want to cash one, too. So, it appears to me, and correct me if I am wrong, I could go to our bank and write a check for the balance in our checking account, sign with the "Redeemed In Lawful Money Pursuant to" statement, and receive same back. The same way a paycheck can be redeemed for lawful money.

Question on the name. Is "my name" the name I go by, and my dba name is my full name? Or is it the exact name that the check is made out to?

Thank you!
ES

---

In my experience most of these questions will answer themselves. For example - withdraw your entire checking account in cash lawful money by demand and start using cash. Or buy a $500 debit card and do not provide any information. There are some snags to work through but I supplied a thread here. Memorize the number and utilize the security code instead of signing.

Or not. Just quit writing checks or when you do, write your demand for lawful money in the Memo field...

Or change the signature on the Authorized Signature Card to:

All transactions are to be in Redeemed Lawful Money pursuant to Title 12 U.S.C. §411.

They will automatically change your account to interest free, since you are no longer supplying them with the benefit of fractional lending on your funds on deposit.

Always sign with your true name. If they do not like that then add dba Legal Name. If they do not like that then open a business account in your Legal Name because it is not yours; like JHD Roofing.

Can you point me in the right direction with regards to getting my IRS taxes refunded?
I had filed all of my paperwork to start the redemption process - UCC1 Etc ETc.
What are the next steps to LEARN how to get my taxes refunded for the last years that I had paid into them. Its over 100K in taxes that I had paid into their monopoly. I have HEARD and READ people using the 1099 OID process - not recommended.

Thank got for like minded people like you all in this message board.

Regards,

D

Hi motla68,

Did the woman that did this continue to receive paychecks with no federal withholding? I have submitted an exempt W-4 before (not 12 USC 411) and it worked for a month (1 paycheck) then for future months the withholding came back. Curious if hers stuck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snuffy

Hi motla68,

Did the woman that did this continue to receive paychecks with no federal withholding? I have submitted an exempt W-4 before (not 12 USC 411) and it worked for a month (1 paycheck) then for future months the withholding came back. Curious if hers stuck.

---

Yes, it did stick. I last spoke with her about 2 weeks ago. She is now very close to retiring sooner then later from the corporate world, just got her certification in Reiki i think it is called and she will do that part time. Since being a part of the local group she has come into more enlightenment when it comes to money/commerce and said she would do this for free for those who honestly could not afford it and had a great need.
Receive freely, give freely , everyone benefits.

Snuffy "I have submitted an exempt W-4 before (not 12 USC 411) and it worked for a month (1 paycheck) then for future months the withholding came back". How did it come back?

Appreciate the feedback motla68.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chex

Snuffy "I have submitted an exempt W-4 before (not 12 USC 411) and it worked for a month (1 paycheck) then for future months the withholding came back". How did it come back?

---

I may have used the wrong term. By "came back" I meant the withholding resumed as if the W-4 had not been submitted. I don't have my pay stubs with me right now to see if the exact withholding amounts resumed.

I submitted a w-4 to the employer, exempt and with notice of 12 USC 411.

I heard not a peep from Payroll or several weeks - until one day I read an email from Payroll citing State laws and IRS publications that explained that I had no standing to include on the form any information that is not requested by the form.

So I submitted yet another w-4, exempt but without notice of 12 USC 411. Payroll was only concerned that the w-4 was filled out according to law. Everything has been fine for me ever since.

Does anyone have thoughts on if being a state government employee ("STATE OF XXXXXX") has any bearing on this?

In addition to my previous information maybe I should have noted I also filled out an "Employee Action Request" form STD. 686. It appears to be the state version of the W-4. Payroll asked for this after I submitted the W-4 (not 12 USC 411). If I recall correctly I received a IRS 3175C letter (no fine) many months later.

Here is a link to a STD. 686 I found on the internet: http://hr.sdsu.edu/pdf/Payroll/EAR.pdf

This is on page 2:

"IF YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM EITHER FEDERAL OR STATE WITHHOLDING, but not exempt from both, contact your personnel office for special instructions."

I am thinking lawful money would be exempt for both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Whenever somebody is handing you cash, postage stamps or money orders - lawful money of the US - and they want you to sign for it, assume they are asking you for endorsement of private credit. Sign your demand for lawful money rather than an endorsement.

---

This caught my reading the real news today. Why it was in the NY time today is bewildering.

THE NEW POSTAGE STAMP CURRENCY. - NYTimes.com Published: July 20, 1862 http://www.nytimes.com/1862/07/20/ne...-currency.html

THE POSTAGE STAMP CURRENCY; Statement of City Postmaster Wakeman in Reference to Defaced Postage Stamps. Published: October 11, 1862 http://www.nytimes.com/1862/10/11/ne...e-defaced.html

In 1862, paper money was not backed by gold or silver and, therefore, it was only a very tenuous faith in the Government that gave people any assurance that paper money had true value. Most people didn’t want to embrace that faith. Combine that feeling with the uncertainty associated with the ultimate outcome of the civil war and, hence, the hoarding of common gold, silver and copper coinage, the time-tested, universally accepted exchange medium. But people still needed to purchase a 3¢ loaf of bread, a 1¢ newspaper, a 5¢ quart of milk and countless other goods that required coins. And vendors had to make change when an item’s price was less than a nickel, a dime or a quarter. How was this to be done? http://www.ephemerasociety.org/blog/?p=883

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chex

This caught my reading the real news today. Why it was in the NY time today is bewildering.

THE NEW POSTAGE STAMP CURRENCY. - NYTimes.com Published: July 20, 1862 http://www.nytimes.com/1862/07/20/ne...-currency.html

THE POSTAGE STAMP CURRENCY; Statement of City Postmaster Wakeman in Reference to Defaced Postage Stamps. Published: October 11, 1862 http://www.nytimes.com/1862/10/11/ne...e-defaced.html

In 1862, paper money was not backed by gold or silver and, therefore, it was only a very tenuous faith in the Government that gave people any assurance that paper money had true value. Most people didn’t want to embrace that faith. Combine that feeling with the uncertainty associated with the ultimate outcome of the civil war and, hence, the hoarding of common gold, silver and copper coinage, the time-tested, universally accepted exchange medium. But people still needed to purchase a 3¢ loaf of bread, a 1¢ newspaper, a 5¢ quart of milk and countless other goods that required coins. And vendors had to make change when an item’s price was less than a nickel, a dime or a quarter. How was this to be done? http://www.ephemerasociety.org/blog/?p=883

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Attachment 2068
Seal Provider



Thanks for this post Chex! Now imagine how this same technique could be applied to improve the "Indorsed Bill Remedy" to perhaps provide "certified funds" to settle "obligations of the United States", with the NAME on each bill being an "instrumentality of the United States".

Below is item #4 of the "Indorsed Bill Procedure", revised to incorporate the anti-counterfeiting feature of the 1862 "postage stamp" currency.

Quote:

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4. Use certified copies of #3 as Proof of Contract with US for Indemnification against all claims when indorsing, sealing and returning bills via USPS Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested to CFO as payment (for deposit only to United States), along with above Usufruct Letter (having Trust-captioned header statement). Note: keep copies of each bill and its USPS Form 3800. Place the self-adhesive strip on the very top of this form onto each bill, along with your personal embossed seal, to prove it is an original issue of a lawful money demand in order to prevent the "counterfeiting" of lawful money! This form also establishes evidence of confirmation of delivery of the June 5, 1933 HJR 192 public trust res.

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Using this IBR method eliminates the need to "make change", since each bill is PAID, "dollar for dollar", in accord with HJR 192!

You could try the modified W-4 form where no "employee" agreement is made.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyCash

You could try the modified W-4 form where no "employee" agreement is made.

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Can you point to one that is filled out. The cite above is a blank form.

Also note Rock Anthony's post at post3972 for additional feedback.

Personally, I do not mind if the "employee" has a contract, as long as 12 USC 411 is honored and the refund is generated accordingly, which it has been for me and for you as you've already attested to in recent posts.

This "refund" is acting like a "savings account" for me... which I "withdraw" every February!