Regardless of MJ's interest or lack of interest in discussion, we can move forward. Let's get to the heart of this matter pertaining to 1 Timothy 2:14. This is taken from a work by Thomas Troward (a fascinating work indeed it is!):
Very interesting and alluring. That is the kind of thing MJ is referring. But apparently he isn't quite enthused about revealing the kinds of sources of information he might rely upon. The following points and questions get to the heart of the error:
1. A reading of Genesis makes it clear that Adam was not deceived since he was not present to hear the words of the Serpent. He is told that he listened to Eve rather than to God. In other words, disobedience or rebellion was his offense--he was in charge (given dominion) you see it was his dominion rather than Eve's --they don't want you to realize something about yourself. Other parts of the Bible make it clear that Adam did 'offend' or perpetrate an 'offense' of some kind. Eve was deceived but Adam was not--Adam could not have been deceived if he wasn't there for the Serpent's discourse.
2. If Adam was a mere body incapable of being deceived how could he have been put down as having made offense? Furthermore, why would God give a pile of chalk and carbon instruction?
3. 'dam' means blood 'a' means chief/head adam rightly points to 'chief of the blood' --blood is the life of the body.
4. In Genesis we see that man/adam/Adam/Man was made "male and female" --many think that means girls and boys but it can also mean that both 'girls' and 'boys' have passive (female) and active (male) natures though girls may have say, 80% passive and 20% active, while boys may have 80% active and 20% passive. The neuro-physiology of females shows that the nervous system of femmes is moreso dedicated to subconscious process than in men.
5. The Hindu scriptures also refer to a Adama and a Havyavathy and their literal flesh and blood descendants.
6. Troward seems to assert there having been only two trees in the Garden, other texts and Genesis itself might disagree and if we consider men as trees walking that idea of only two trees is overturned plain and simple.
7. Even if Genesis were 100% fiction like a movie, how can we trust anyone who can't even be honest about the text or who shows they can't even properly discern or read it (error is one thing but blindness and deception are something else).
The Bible gives insight as to trees.
Quote:
3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.
5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.
6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.
7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. Ezekiel 31:3-9
Could be the possibility that the Garden of Eden and the Garden of the Lord or the Garden of God are the not the same?
Mark 8 hint.
Quote:
22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. Mark 8:22-24
Men can bear fruit?
Quote:
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
What waters your tree?
Quote:
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Matt. 7:16
Quote:
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Genesis 1:26-30
Quote:
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:4-7
"Man became a living soul"--this is done before the instruction regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil is given. If Adam were a mere pile of chalk and carbon, why is he referred to as becoming a "living soul"?
***
Away from Genesis for a moment, its a spiritual book right?
Quote:
4 The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens. 5 Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high, 6 Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth! 7 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill; 8 That he may set him with princes, even with the princes of his people. Psalm 113:4-8
Quote:
8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them. 1 Samuel 2:8
Quote:
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:1-3
