On The Subject Of Private Credit

All money is currency but not all currency is money

Fiat Currency:

Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, defines legal tender as "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

Federal Reserve notes are legal tender currency notes. The twelve Federal Reserve Banks issue them into circulation pursuant to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. A commercial bank belonging to the Federal Reserve System can obtain Federal Reserve notes from the Federal Reserve Bank in its district whenever it wishes. It must pay for them in full, dollar for dollar, by drawing down its account with its district Federal Reserve Bank.

Congress has specified that a Federal Reserve Bank must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve notes that the Bank receives. This collateral is chiefly gold certificates and United States securities. This provides backing for the note issue. The idea was that if the Congress dissolved the Federal Reserve System, the United States would take over the notes (liabilities). This would meet the requirements of Section 411, but the government would also take over the assets, which would be of equal value. Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.

By law, Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are money, a tightly controlled, tangible product with severe penalties for their unauthorized reproduction and if the Federal Reserve's (Fed) balance sheet is to be believed, there are about $920 billion accounted FRNs in circulation worldwide, the majority of which are held overseas.

FRN's (a.k.a. Dollars) are the primary unit of account by which all public/private debt can be extinguished. They are also a medium of exchange and are assumed to be a store of wealth.


Fractional Reserve Currency:

Commercial banks do not create money as defined by law. They create a "money substitute" a.k.a. "book keeping money", a.k.a. "electronic digits", a.k.a. "Credit", a fractionalized derivative of the primary money, Federal Reserve Notes, that is measured in dollars. This practice is known as Fractional Reserve Banking (a practice that has been destroying economies, countries and lives for over 600 years).

Credit dollars are a debt generated currency that is denominated by a unit of account (FRNs). Unlike money (by a strict definition), credit itself cannot act as a unit of account. However, many forms of credit can readily act as a medium of exchange. As such, various forms of credit are frequently referred to as money and are included in estimates of the money supply.

Credit as currency is, quite simply, a promise to pay FRN's (dollars) upon demand as well as over time. The everyday physical representation of that promise is the debit/credit card, which is the hallmark of modern computerized, fractionalized, debt driven commercial/investment banking. Literally billions of dollars' worth of transactions are conducted in credit currency each and every day without any thought given to the un-fulfill-able promise that backs its use or the inevitable consequences of its failure.

Our economy is totally dependent upon the continuing flow of digits, which necessitates the continued expansion of public/private debt as well as the continued expansion of assets and asset values, for its survival.

Unlike FRNs, which are an obligation of the government, credit currency is not, thus the need for the FDIC, which is as "Federal" as the Federal Reserve, a congressionally chartered consortium of private banks, the FDIC is a congressionally chartered subsidiary of the Federal Reserve that is funded primarily by member banks with allowance to borrow from the Treasury. The objective of the FDIC is to re-digitize credited deposits (positive credit) that have reverted to their natural state of bank debt upon its failure. In other words; the FDIC's function is to keep the illusion of "credit is money", and the fractionally reserved banking system that issues and administers this "money substitute", alive.

Credit currency has no legal standing as money but all debts incurred through its use are legally binding.

Carl

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Thank you for sharing Carl.


Welcome!!

Thanks.

I'm hoping, with your input, we could build a clearer picture of the realities surrounding the "monetary system".

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Originally Posted by Carl

All money is currency but not all currency is money

Fiat Currency:

Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, defines legal tender as "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

Federal Reserve notes are legal tender currency notes. The twelve Federal Reserve Banks issue them into circulation pursuant to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. A commercial bank belonging to the Federal Reserve System can obtain Federal Reserve notes from the Federal Reserve Bank in its district whenever it wishes. It must pay for them in full, dollar for dollar, by drawing down its account with its district Federal Reserve Bank.

Congress has specified that a Federal Reserve Bank must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve notes that the Bank receives. This collateral is chiefly gold certificates and United States securities. This provides backing for the note issue. The idea was that if the Congress dissolved the Federal Reserve System, the United States would take over the notes (liabilities). This would meet the requirements of Section 411, but the government would also take over the assets, which would be of equal value. Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.

By law, Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are money, a tightly controlled, tangible product with severe penalties for their unauthorized reproduction and if the Federal Reserve's (Fed) balance sheet is to be believed, there are about $920 billion accounted FRNs in circulation worldwide, the majority of which are held overseas.

FRN's (a.k.a. Dollars) are the primary unit of account by which all public/private debt can be extinguished. They are also a medium of exchange and are assumed to be a store of wealth.


Fractional Reserve Currency:

Commercial banks do not create money as defined by law. They create a "money substitute" a.k.a. "book keeping money", a.k.a. "electronic digits", a.k.a. "Credit", a fractionalized derivative of the primary money, Federal Reserve Notes, that is measured in dollars. This practice is known as Fractional Reserve Banking (a practice that has been destroying economies, countries and lives for over 600 years).
Credit dollars are a debt generated currency that is denominated by a unit of account (FRNs). Unlike money (by a strict definition), credit itself cannot act as a unit of account. However, many forms of credit can readily act as a medium of exchange. As such, various forms of credit are frequently referred to as money and are included in estimates of the money supply.

Credit as currency is, quite simply, a promise to pay FRN's (dollars) upon demand as well as over time. The everyday physical representation of that promise is the debit/credit card, which is the hallmark of modern computerized, fractionalized, debt driven commercial/investment banking. Literally billions of dollars' worth of transactions are conducted in credit currency each and every day without any thought given to the un-fulfill-able promise that backs its use or the inevitable consequences of its failure.

Our economy is totally dependent upon the continuing flow of digits, which necessitates the continued expansion of public/private debt as well as the continued expansion of assets and asset values, for its survival.

Unlike FRNs, which are an obligation of the government, credit currency is not, thus the need for the FDIC, which is as "Federal" as the Federal Reserve, a congressionally chartered consortium of private banks, the FDIC is a congressionally chartered subsidiary of the Federal Reserve that is funded primarily by member banks with allowance to borrow from the Treasury. The objective of the FDIC is to re-digitize credited deposits (positive credit) that have reverted to their natural state of bank debt upon its failure. In other words; the FDIC's function is to keep the illusion of "credit is money", and the fractionally reserved banking system that issues and administers this "money substitute", alive.

Credit currency has no legal standing as money but all debts incurred through its use are legally binding.

Carl

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Your post is to me, a work of art! It is really great to have you here. I have a couple comments.

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The idea was that if the Congress dissolved the Federal Reserve System, the United States would take over the notes (liabilities).

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In 1933 the charters expired and instead of dissolving the Fed, FDR saved it by opening up the endorsement contract to private citizens as if they are Fed Banks, but of course instead of 'giving' them FRNs, they would have to earn them the old fashioned way:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4556/...bondslarge.jpg

I am excited over your comment because it has opened my eyes to a new way to explain it. That is what I find about our style - it that you just said the whole thing right there! Easy!

Your commentary about credit currency is quite simply the reason that the Credit River Money Decision is an Attachment on every Libel of Review.

www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/P1.jpg
www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/P2.jpg
www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/P3.jpg
www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/P4.jpg

I woke up one morning and all the information that I've picked up over the years on this subject had crystallized into what I've presented here, unfortunately, it took me months to write it.

When you think about it, we are using the electronic equivalent of the old Tally Stick as if it were money. When it comes to fractional reserved banking, it can truly be said; the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Thank you for sharing it, whatever;

I am confident it is not the sum total - just an epiphany. I am marvelling at how you were able to articulate it to us.

Stay the same?

No, not the sum total by a long shot. It's just that I'm neither a typist nor a writer and I'm really picky about the words I choose to use and insuring that they are presented within their proper context.


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Someone should make a Venn diagram concerning all money is currency, but not all currency is money.

A picture can say a thousand words :).

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Originally Posted by Carl

FRN's (a.k.a. Dollars) are the primary unit of account by which all public/private debt can be extinguished. They are also a medium of exchange and are assumed to be a store of wealth.

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I will take exception to this.

FRNs are notes. Notes are debt instruments. Notes transfer title, but the debt remains. FRNs discharge debt in equity.

Lawful tender extinguishes debt at law.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Fractional Reserve Currency:

Commercial banks do not create money as defined by law. They create a "money substitute" a.k.a. "book keeping money", a.k.a. "electronic digits", a.k.a. "Credit", a fractionalized derivative of the primary money, Federal Reserve Notes, that is measured in dollars. This practice is known as Fractional Reserve Banking (a practice that has been destroying economies, countries and lives for over 600 years).

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This is similar to the concept of money of account vs. money of exchange.
I got this information from some French treatise.... if anyone is interested, I can see if I can dig it up.

If I follow, credit is money of account. FRNs are money of exchange.

Will this do?

http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/p...se-pyramid.jpg

That's hawt :)

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

This is similar to the concept of money of account vs. money of exchange.
I got this information from some French treatise.... if anyone is interested, I can see if I can dig it up.

If I follow, credit is money of account. FRNs are money of exchange.

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Credit is not money at all, it is simply book keeping entries that banks have finagled into a currency or, medium of exchange.

FRNs are legal tender money, a unit of account and the basis of all credit/debt issued.

FRNs are born as debt but they can also be held independant of debt, credit can not.

That inverted pyramid is wrong in that gold was made irrelevant to the equation in 1933.

It all rests on the FRN now.

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Originally Posted by Carl

That inverted pyramid is wrong in that gold was made irrelevant to the equation in 1933.
It all rests on the FRN now.

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Or does it rest on the estate held in trust where the FRN devalues it when we choose to use that form of currency?

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Originally Posted by motla68

Or does it rest on the estate held in trust where the FRN devalues it when we choose to use that form of currency?

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Interesting question. Whose estate is being held in trust?

Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.

This accounts for the FRN's limited supply and it also discounts any notions of hyperinflation.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Credit is not money at all, it is simply book keeping entries that banks have finagled into a currency or, medium of exchange.

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This is exactly what money of account is: bookkeeping entries in a ledger.

The depositing of one's money into a bank transitions it from money of exchange (FRNs) to money of account (checkbook, ledger, or account entries).

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Originally Posted by Carl

FRNs are legal tender money, a unit of account and the basis of all credit/debt issued.

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Gold coin, silver coin, and copper coins are lawful money
Gold coin, silver coin, copper coins, US Treasury Notes, and US Treasury Bills are lawful tender.

An FRN is a note. It is based on dollars. A dollar is a specified weight and grain of silver and per the Coinage Act of 1792.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Interesting question. Whose estate is being held in trust?

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It is peoples' assets which are being held in trust.
People create governments.

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

This is exactly what money of account is: bookkeeping entries in a ledger.

The depositing of one's money into a bank transitions it from money of exchange (FRNs) to money of account (checkbook, ledger, or account entries).

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Sorry but no. The unit of account remains the money (FRNs); bookkeeping merely tracks the flow of that unit of account.

By the way, there is no money in any bank account of any type anywhere within the U.S., they are all credited accounts.

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

Gold coin, silver coin, and copper coins are lawful money
Gold coin, silver coin, copper coins, US Treasury Notes, and US Treasury Bills are lawful tender.

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U.S. law and the government's ability to impose its will through the use of force has determined that gold and silver coin are not money, regardless of your sentiments on the subject.

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

An FRN is a note. It is based on dollars. A dollar is a specified weight and grain of silver and per the Coinage Act of 1792.

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The coinage act of 1792 was made irrelevant immaterial and beside the point by the Coinage Act of 1965.

While the FRN may resemble the USD, the USD is not the basis of the FRN. The FRN is a private issue currency.

** I stand corrected: If FRNs can be Redeemed for Dollars then that would indicate that Dollars are the basis of FRNs. However, silver plays no part in it.


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Originally Posted by motla68

Or does it rest on the estate held in trust where the FRN devalues it when we choose to use that form of currency?

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Like this?



I recall having $4K on a Line of Credit. I told the Credit Union to remove my SSN from the Account as I did not have one any longer. They closed the account. A couple months later they called my Dad and asked him for my SSN - he declined.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Sorry but no. The unit of account remains the money (FRNs); bookkeeping merely tracks the flow of that unit of account.

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Money of account is a term. It means bookkeeping entries. Granted it is term from the past, yet still a valid term.

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Originally Posted by Carl

By the way, there is no money in any bank account of any type anywhere within the U.S., they are all credited accounts.

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If you re-read all that I have written to this point, you will see this is exactly what I have stated. This means I agree with you.
A bank account can be converted into money of exchange on demand.

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Originally Posted by Carl

U.S. law and the government's ability to impose its will through the use of force has determined that gold and silver coin are not money, regardless of your sentiments on the subject.

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Incorrect. Gold and silver are money and are still used as such today. The mint is producing gold and silver coins as we speak. Now if you run out there into the public and spend that coin, it shall be accepted at face value. So a $20 gold coin is $20 to government and not $1500 as would be according to market value.

American gold and silver coin will be accepted as legal tender.

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Originally Posted by Carl

The coinage act of 1792 was made irrelevant immaterial and beside the point by the Coinage Act of 1965.

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Quite to the contrary. Gold and silver coins as dollars were defined by the Coinage Act of 1792. Gold and silver coins are produced by the US Mint today.

I raise this point for it is material to this discussion.

All fiat money systems (including the US) start on commodities (primarily gold, silver, and copper).
Fiat money typically comes to fore when a nation is at war.

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Originally Posted by Carl

While the FRN may resemble the USD, the USD is not the basis of the FRN. The FRN is a private issue currency.

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Isn't the FRN's unit of account called dollars?

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Originally Posted by Carl

** I stand corrected: If FRNs can be Redeemed for Dollars then that would indicate that Dollars are the basis of FRNs. However, silver plays no part in it.

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I think you are neglecting the history of US money.
FRNs were initially backed by gold and silver coin. You could redeem a $1 FRN for a one ounce silver coin. You could redeem $20 FRN for a one ounce gold coin. The redeemability of FRNs in gold was abrogated in 1933 and in silver between 1965 - 1968.

A dollar is weight and grain of silver as outlined in the Coinage Act of 1792.
A FRN's unit of account is a dollar (in title only, not value).
Initially, a FRN represented value as based on gold, silver, and copper coin.
Think of value in terms of weight rather than market value.

Money of account

A monetary unit in which accounts are kept and that may or may not correspond to actual current denominations.

(Economics) another name (esp US and Canadian) for unit of account

Money

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The French money system is made difficult to understand because there are two kinds of "money": "money of account," which is a kind of theoretical money which does not directly correspond to any coinage, and "money of exchange," which are the actual coins that change hands in the course of doing business.

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There are no actual coins for the money of account. Kings minted coins which could be assigned values in terms of money of account, and these values may fluctuate given such factors as inflation (a concept not well understood then).

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

Sorry, but yes. Money of account is a term. It means bookkeeping entries. Granted it is term from the past, yet still a valid term.

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I'm not disputing the term. By law, the Federal Reserve Note is the Money Of Account. Bookkeeping entries are not money and it's the propagation of that damnably fallacious notion that drives fractional reserve banking. If bookkeeping entries were money then there wouldn't be bank failures and we wouldn't need the FDIC, now would we?

Gold and silver coins are collectable commodities. If you chose to barter them away at stamped value, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to argue them any further because they are irrelevant to the subject.

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

Isn't the FRN's unit of account called dollars?

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Yes, FRNs are mistakenly reffered to as USDs.

It appears you've been a member here long enough to know the difference between a USD and an FRN, so why the dumb act?

.

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Originally Posted by Carl

I'm not disputing the term. By law, the Federal Reserve Note is the Money Of Account. Bookkeeping entries are not money and it's the propagation of that damnably fallacious notion that drives fractional reserve banking. If bookkeeping entries were money then we there wouldn't be bank failures and wouldn't need the FDIC, now would we?

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Accounting entries are money of account, but not money of exchange. FRNs currently function as money of exchange.

Your initial post is saying the same thing: that there is money of account and money of exchange. Read my posts #22 and #23.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Gold and silver coins are collectable commodities. If you chose to barter them away at stamped value, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to argue them any further because they are irrelevant to the subject.

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Exchanging one's coins at values deemed legal tender is not barter.
Barter is the exchanging of items sans any medium of exchange.
Gold and silver coin stamped in dollars as the unit of account exchanged at legal tender value in accordance with public policy of the government of the United States implies said gold and silver coin is the medium of exchange for products, services, or goods.
Gold and silver coin is always relevant to any discussion of money whether historical or contemporary.

Commodity (market), face, and numismatic values are distinctive beasts.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Yes, FRNs are mistakenly reffered to as USDs.

It appears you've been a member here long enough to know the difference between a USD and an FRN, so why the dumb act?

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Now, now... this is a discussion. Let not frustration get the better of you. Misunderstanding and miscommunication is not stupidity. I'm trying to communicate with you.

We can disagree without being disagreeable ... or at least I hope.

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

Accounting entries are money of account, but not money of exchange. FRNs currently function as money of exchange.
I think you aren't reading my words correctly. I am agreeing with you.
Your initial post is saying the same thing. There is money of account and money of exchange. Read my posts #22 and #23.

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I'm reading your words correctly and I'm telling you your phraseology is wrong. My initial post makes no such claim. You're not agreeing with me, you're attempting twist my argument to fit your straw man and I will have none of it.

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

Exchanging one's coins at values deemed legal tender is not barter.
Barter is the exchanging of items sans any medium of exchange.
Gold and silver coin is always relevant to any discussion of money whether historical or contemporary.

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It is your prerogative to believe whatever you like however; your beliefs are not germane to the subject as outlined.

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

Now, now... this is a discussion. Let not frustration get the better of you. I'm trying to communicate with you, but it makes it hard with ad hominem attacks which, I am certain, are against the policy of this forum.

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It was not an ad hominem attack, it was an honest, straight foward, question.

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Originally Posted by Carl

I'm reading your words correctly and I'm telling you your phraseology is wrong. My initial post makes no such claim. You're not agreeing with me, you're attempting twist my argument to fit your straw man and I will have none of it.

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I'm attempting to impart to you the terms "money of account" and "money of exchange".
I understand that credit is not "money" per your article.
I see your comparison and contrast between FRNs and credit as "money of exchange" and "money of account" respectively.
I twist nothing.
I feel the phraseology is precise and fits within historical definitions as well.

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Originally Posted by Carl

It is your prerogative to believe whatever you like however; your beliefs are not germane to the subject as outlined.

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Beliefs are germane to me.
Facts are germane to this discussion.
I bring facts.
My prerogatives are fine and I am well aware of them. It's nice you recognize them.

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Barter

v.intr.
To trade goods or services without the exchange of money.

v.tr.
To trade (goods or services) without the exchange of money.

n.

The act or practice of bartering.
Something bartered.

adj.
Of, relating to, or being something based on bartering: a barter economy.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/barter#ixzz1LiCHmmVR

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Originally Posted by Carl

Gold and silver coins are collectable commodities. If you chose to barter them away at stamped value, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to argue them any further because they are irrelevant to the subject.

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Gold and silver coins are legal tender and lawful tender. They are a medium of exchange.
They are only collectible commodities with regard to numismatics. The usage of a medium of exchange precludes the transaction from being labeled as barter.

And "bartering" (as you so put it) gold and silver coins at stamped value in a public transaction isn't my prerogative, it is federal law.

Tis' better to ask me what my prerogatives are rather than manufacture one of your choosing.

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Originally Posted by Carl

It was not an ad hominem attack, it was an honest, straight foward, question.

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Your assessment, being your opinion, is a belief in addition to not being germane to this discussion.

One shouldn't "call the kettle" when they are guilty of the same actions.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Interesting question. Whose estate is being held in trust?

Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.

This accounts for the FRN's limited supply and it also discounts any notions of hyperinflation.

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Does it have to be any "ones" estate, what if it were for the benefit of all?
Attachment 453Attachment 454

Could it be possible it is a Lien upon the Bond in Treasury the FRB deposited so that those notes can be printed and then you are charged taxes and interest upon the use of them FRNs to secure the Bonds and the increase the banks would get? An easy search you will discover that the Burea of Engraving and Printing, a federal agency prints the notes and distributes to FRB branches.
Bonded performance obligation:
In the publication published by the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK titled, "THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM PURPOSES AND FUNCTIONS," on page 115, in Appendix B Glossary of Terms, the following paragraph defines, "FEDERAL RESERVE note," and said definition does not include the UNITED STATES.

Federal Reserve note

Paper currency issued by the Federal Reserve Banks. Nearly all the na-tion’s circulating currency is in the form of Federal Reserve notes, which are printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, a bureau of the U.S. Department of the Treasury. Federal Reserve notes are obligations of the Federal Reserve Banks and legal tender for all debts.

You can find the file at the following link:
http://search.newyorkfed.org/board_p...x=0&Search.y=0


Hyperinflation, who caused that? Credit Card Use, Lines of Credit, Loans, Mortgages e.t.c., Business is good for banks why would they not want to control flow of currency? Is it always someone else's fault?

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

Like this?



I recall having $4K on a Line of Credit. I told the Credit Union to remove my SSN from the Account as I did not have one any longer. They closed the account. A couple months later they called my Dad and asked him for my SSN - he declined.

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The back of old SSN card's use to say it was property of the SSA, now if you look in SSA policy statutes they will say it is property of the Federal Government. So to say it was your SSN would be a mistake upon use.
In a stretch of thought here I think the "color" of money is used mainly by banks, it is the whole reason why they have the FBEP print them FRNS because they have no authority to print lawful money, if they cannot charge you interest and overdraft fees then they cannot do enough business to secure the BONDS they intend to make credit on that are in Treasury, so between not giving them a SSN which is the fish hook to get you into their international market and claiming lawful money it does not benefit them any so account gets closed. SSA policy statutes will reveal trusts between United States and other countries. It really was not your bank account, you just had use of it under their terms and conditions.

We have had several situations like this where when the Lawful Money codification was used on the presentment, the account was settled but then closed, so if you were looking to keep a credit card account open and try to use Lawful Money statement one has a decision to make what is more important to them, permanently remove themselves from the debt account or continue to cater to the existence of Color of Money an illusion of value.

Dave RAMSEY calls it Financial Peace but look at items 9 and 10!

But when you are dealing in Lawful Money there is no credit and debit at least as far as the treasury is concerned, everything is 1 for 1, and it looks like what is being considered is not going to be just covered by Gold, but other commodities as well. The credit and debit system is the unequal weights and measures, also in reference to what MJ posted about the scriptures being deposited into the U.S. of A trust, This should come more clear as this reference is researched more digging down beneath the survey layers of trusts to tap the Ecclesiastical layer, I think at that point the Lawful Money argument will become a mute issue. A clue is the 3 aspects of courts and currency, public, private and the in God We Trust = the Ecclesiastical.

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

I'm attempting to impart to you the terms "money of account" and "money of exchange".
I understand that credit is not "money" per your article.
I see your comparison and contrast between FRNs and credit as "money of exchange" and "money of account" respectively.
I twist nothing.
I feel the phraseology is precise and fits within historical definitions as well.

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"Money of Account" may have been used in old France but here we use "unit of account" and that unit of account is a measure in dollars, paid either in Federal Reserve Notes or in Credit Currency.

I appreciate your input..