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I know there has been discussion of allodial ownership and a variety of view points about whether or not it's truly attainable in this day and age, but I think the venture is noble and will continue to pursue staking claim to the property that I now inhabit... So far so good!
The search for info on land ownership and allodial title is what first led me to SJC.
Once there, my attention was quickly captured by the heated lawful money discussions, R4C, LoR, etc, but I'm still on the quest to figure out land ownership.
Michael Joseph has been very helpful in this area, as he has hipped me to the trust structures that exist around every commercial transaction.
I have been wanting to start a discussion about deeds, titles, surveys and county recording of such, and to use my own documents and land transaction as a point of departure.
I have not had time to sanitize the docs yet.
When I bought, using lawful money, what I thought was land, and then utilized the services of an attorney to help me get my claim recorded, because I was told by family that's what I should do, some unexpected things happened.
I still don't know exactly what it was that I bought.
I'm sitting on the land that I thought I bought right now, but I'm finding that I have to pay a yearly rent or have my surveyed claim sold at auction by a third party if I fail to pay rent.
It's all very puzzling to me, but I intend to get to the bottom of it.
Greetings
Depending on a person's exact situation (i.e. whether or not they are involved in a mortgage, or if they own the land outright) there may be something you can do or you may have to wait until you have completed the mortgage contract. This is where things can become a little fuzzy and unclear. Because, generally, the way most mortgages are written up, you've already paid for the land once the promissory note is signed and the bank monetizes it with the Federal Reserve. (I haven't had time to look further into this aspect of this issue; perhaps someone else here can expand and elaborate on it.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Treefarmer
I have been studying this issue for the past two years (land patents, allodial title etc.) and it can be somewhat complicated. David Wilbur Johnson has some videos out that do a good job at explaining the land patent part of this, and I would recommend his information as a good place to start your education. You can begin to download his talks at the following URL: http://freedom-school.com/private-property-rights.html Also, you may find some other bits of interesting information at that site. So poke around.
I'm in the process of taking the property I own out of the county's tax base, so I'm looking at this from a property tax elimination angle.
The people on SJC whose information I researched before the site went down were somewhat vague and unsure about ways to accomplish this. But one of the things mentioned was that land patents were somewhat overrated as far as being able to eliminate property taxes. And at this point in my studies, I'm tending to agree with that evaluation.
The property tax is contractual in nature. What you have to do is void the contract. But no one on SJC ever explained how to do this, so I'm cautiously going forward with a plan I have arrived at which will accomplish this through a back door operation. I'll let you know how it goes as I proceed and begin to experience results.
The land issue can be puzzling to figure out. There's a for profit (meaning that you end up having to pay for the information if you want it) organization called Team Law that says they can provide you with what they call a "Land Patent sandwich" of documents that will help you to "stake your claim" to the land you rightfully own. I would only recommend using them to enhance your education on this matter. Unless you have the extra money (FRNs) to waste, I would hold off purchasing anything from them. Once you find out and can corroborate how the law works in this situation, you may find that their product is superfluous (unnecessary). So, study the information on their site with regard to how the law works with regard to property taxes. The information there is well worth studying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treefarmer
KnowLaw, it looks like we have been reading some of the same info.
I poked around TeamLaw long enough to make up my opinion that there's nothing there for me. I've never had FRNs to waste.
Freedom School is interesting, but I've not been able to verify any of their info yet.
The property taxes were my concern too, of course.
Some day soon, when I expect to not be able to buy or sell anymore (see Revelation 13:17) I don't want to have to deal with the taxman if at all possible.
Right now the tax issue is not too vexing, because the taxes I pay are low and I have not had to deal with building permits, which didn't exist here when I built my "shed".
Some years ago I convinced the Assessor that my little house is not a house for his purposes, but a shed, because it has no slab and no grid power.
I also got him to lower the assessed value of my "land" which is classified as "forest".
For the twohundredodd FRNs I pay in property taxes every year, I get to dump the little bits of garbage that we produce at a waste disposal site about 12 miles from here, and the County does a good job of keeping snow off the asphalt road near me.
This is because my neighbor works for the County Road Department, and he has to get to work in inclement weather conditions.
I have heard that other County Roads receive no attention at all, and most people hate this County Road Department for it.
Besides a Sheriff's Department, a County Courthouse, some public schools and a jail, there are no other "services" in this County.
I moved here because I dislike most government "services". I have never felt that they were of any benefit to me, and oftentimes they have been a great hindrance to my pursuit of survival and happiness.
One of these days I want to search the County records to see who has held claim to my little plot of earth before me.
I hope that will reveal some information on ownership, but maybe not.
Should be interesting at any rate.
I posted tons of information on land patents, titles, and such at the old site =(.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treefarmer
The ultimate in freedom, in my opinion, is absolute ownership of land. No other freedoms can be had without land free of all servitudes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru
I have not acquired this directly for myself. I do however learn through a lot of vicarious experience (suitors/brain trust). I think it would be helpful to learn about the current chattel mortgage system and how to register your car without paying a property tax.
I believe there is something fundamentally flawed about allodium, I mean in the term itself being Roman. Land Patents have been divided up and sold (abstract of title). These two terms have some merit to understand but they also have a lot of mythology developed around them. I believe also that there is an achievement in America I call the highest title and that can be acquired through paying for your property with lawful money.
Regards,
David Merrill.
What would be the purpose of registering one's car?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
My theory is that the registration makes the car a (registered) security as well as subject to licensing, insurance, and registration. The registration of cars and houses provide security for municipal corporations to write bonds against with such registrations serving as collateral.
Registration itself being a statutory process as well as historically, Kings would mandate shipowners register their boats before embarking on the seas.
I find it interesting that the subject of first-title deeds (land patents) are not discussed or mentioned with regard to the general populace along with the pushing of warranty deeds and home owners insurance ....Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
Whether or not land patents (being lawful instruments) have something to do with land tenured in allod .... there is something there the powers that be desire not for you to avail yourself of ....
There is something interesting with land patents for sure...
You betcha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Scott
I intend to find out just exactly what that is too :). The ultimate quest towards land tenured in allod.
It could either be the holy grail or the "maiden voyage of the Titanic", but either way it shall be an adventure for sure.
In the example provided the registration was outside the scope of fealty (taxation). The registration allows for competency (driver license outside the scope of revenue) and authority to be on the road - insurance (ability to compensate others in the event of a misjudgment - accident).Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru
The "current chattel mortgage system" can be simple: Don't engage in pledging of property as surety.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
I do agree with learning about mortgages and today's current system. However, avoid it as much as possible.
As to registering cars, I am of the opinion that if the car is my property and exclusively my property, then avoid registration.
Cars can generate much in terms of liability. This being the case, it would be prudent in my opinion, to register the car to a corporation or trust and use it as such with the corporation footing the bill for the car, its upkeep, taxes, insurances, and the like in addition to offering another level of protection as far as "assets" go. It is all commerce, therefore box it completely within commercial instruments such as a corporation or trust.