I want to open a bank account that has no link to a SS number and or state ID. Does anyone here know how to do that? I have been redeeming lawful money with my non endorsement for awhile now on a business account. I want to open a personal account now and want to keep it separate from any SS #. Any help is much appreciated.
Jesus Victor
I do not think that is possible.
If you want to give it a go please carry an audio recorder, or even one of those pen video cameras. Carry your cash in and tell the customer service rep that you have no SSN. [It does not exist without your verification and approval for its use.]
I recall years ago I heard that banking software would allow no SSN by entering 99999's. That would get you through that screen and to the next screen with the County field. The rep would key upward and find USA or United States of America rather than US or United States and then be able to delete the 999999's and proceed. It was probably a patriot myth.
P.S. Welcome and cool name!
So if they do not do it, then I would open a regular account and then make sure to sign my card with "12 USC 411". Correct?
Jesus Victor
This is what I have experienced- The bank will ask for an SS# to which you may show but basically the W-9 form is what gives consent for the banks to share account info with the IRS. You may decline to sign the W-9 and in exchange they will tell you that your account cannot earn interest. No problem! After having the account for a time the bank will send a W-9 form in the mail to which it may be ignored.
I was added as a signor to an existing account without a SSN. They fussed a bit about it, and had to go up the chain to get the ok, which came through no problem. But even then they had to "threaten" that the "system" might "automatically close the account". That was several years ago and I've had no problems.
I'm about to begin a similar endeavor to open an individual account without a number or a driver license/passport. Instead of that "ID" I will identify myself on my terms via the affidavit of identity I have made public notice. W-9's are for "U.S. persons" and therefore not applicable to me; I'll likely furnish an alternative W-8BEN (for nonresident aliens). I also intend to add verbiage to the effect that all transactions related to the account shall be in lawful money, and that it is agreed the body of law that calls itself "Internal Revenue Code" does not apply. We'll see if it's still America in relation to banks.
Yes and demand Redeemed Lawful Money on all transactions.Quote:
Originally Posted by jesus victor
That is where I was going too EZ.Quote:
Originally Posted by EZrhythm
Since you are depriving consent to lend fractionally on your funds the bank is getting no benefit from your funds. I believe we described it legally as Special Deposit. They are just holding your money and have to hold it separate from the endorsers' funds. So do not expect that they have to pay you interest for no benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jethro
That is great! I suggest that you supplement your ID with a Certificate of Search from the USDC.
Here is an example:
Thanks, David. Although a similar search for me would likely turn up a record of a civil case, though I won that case.
How would that benefit me?
Perhaps the State/County/City treasurer nearest you provides some kind of banking services? Also folks are apparently able to open accounts with Matricula Consulars and WSA Passports. Perhaps consider a banking passport?
Thanks for the insight. I will let you all know how it goes next week.
The objective is in relation to a Libel of Review. The judgment is a true judgment because the presenter is making a claim without filing first in the district courts of the US. So even if it shows a civil suit there is no cause for the presentment to be binding in law, which sets up the default judgment and lays grounds for successful Refusals for Cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jethro
What other types of searches are available from the clerk? I didn't know clerks offered this type of service i.e. criminal records etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
It is possible to open an account without a SSN.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<SNIP>
Fortunately, the federal government's presumption about you is also rebuttable. Why? Because the feds are guilty of fraud, among other reasons, by not disclosing the nature of the bankruptcy which they are using to envelope the American people, like an octopus with a suction tentacle in everybody's wallet, adults and children alike. The banks became unwitting parties to this fraud because the Congress has obtained a controlling interest in the banks through the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and their traffic in Federal Reserve Notes and other commercial paper issued by the Federal Reserve banks, with the help of their agent, the private Treasury Department. For further details, read "Return to Constitutional Money" by Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr., in the Supreme Law Library on the Internet.
Because this fraud can attach to bank accounts without your knowledge or consent, it is generally a good idea to notify your bank(s), in writing, that the IRS cannot inspect any of your bank records unless you have specifically authorized such inspections by executing IRS Form 6014. The IRS Printed Products Catalog describes this form as follows:
6014 -- 42996R -- (Each)
Authorization ?? Access to Third Party Records for Internal Revenue Service Employees
Authorization from Taxpayer to third party for IRS employees to examine records. Re-numbered as a 4-digit form from Letter 995(DO) (7/77). Changes suggested per IRM Section 4082.1 to help secure the correct information from the third party. EX : E : D Tax Related Public Use
[IRS Printed Product Catalog]
[Document 7130, Rev. 6-89, p. 49]
Make explicit reference to this Form in a routine letter to your bank(s). Inform the appropriate bank officers that they must have a completed Form 6014 on file, with your authorized signature, before they can legally allow any IRS employees to examine your records. Then state, discretely, that you hereby reserve your fundamental right to withhold your authorized signature from Form 6014, because it might otherwise constitute a waiver of your 4th Amendment Rights, and no agency of government can compel you to waive any of your fundamental Rights such as those explicitly guaranteed by the 4th Amendment in the Constitution for the United States of America. (Banks are chartered by the States in which they do business, and as such they are "agencies" of State government.)
For good measure, you might also cite pertinent sections in your State Constitution, particularly where it mandates that the U.S. Constitution is the supreme Law of the Land, as it does in the California Constitution of 1879. Finally, you may wish to state that Form 6014 is not applicable to you anyway, because you are not a "Taxpayer" as that term is defined by Section 7701(a)(14) of the Internal Revenue Code. Therefore, the bank is simply not authorized to release information about you to IRS employees, period!
<SNIP>
The law of presumption:
http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/htm/chapter9.htm
EXCELLENT POST! Although that info doesn't provide what one needs to get by the bank requiring an SSN before they will open an account.
Can't you open a non-interest bearing account without an SSN?Quote:
Originally Posted by EZrhythm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru
I think I know where to ask that question!
I have seen a forum for bankers to discuss such questions. There is also a segment of the forum for non-bankers to ask questions of bankers.
Try:
http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/u...Number=1695080
Please start a new thread to keep us informed should your excursions become interesting?
My thought is that the SSN is required for any interest that may accumulate in an account for IRS filing requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
If the account is non-interest bearing, what is there to report for income ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_g
It is not a criminal records search. You can get one of those for $150 from any Private Investigator. It is a records search and you can get one for free over the phone but you pay $25 or so for one on paper.
P.S. You might explore about bank accounts here:
http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/u...Number=1695080
I found the following...
I recently tried to open a bank account with my local bank , and when they asked for a SSN, I informed them that I didn't have one. They flatly refused and said that without a SSN that they absolutely could NOT open an account of any kind. I then proceeded thus to convince them that they were in the wrong: 1) I informed them that I had terminated my SSN legally in accordance with 20 CFR 3 A7 404.1905 and 2) I informed them that the bank could not be held legally responsible by anyone for failing to obtain a SSN from me pursuant to 31 CFR 103.34(a)(1) and 3) I informed them that under the Internal Revenue Code Section 6041, that they were not even required to provide any taxpayer identification numbers on the Form 1099 that they file with the IRS at the end of the year, and 4) I informed them that pursuant to 26 CFR 301.6109-1(c) that they were under no legal obligation to obtain a SSN from me, and 5) I informed them that 42 USC 408 makes it a FELONY to use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner. After a brief meeting with the banks controller and legal counsel, I received a phone call stating that I would be allowed to open a checking account. Please pass this information along to your readers, in hopes that it may help someone else who may find themselves in this situation.
link deleted
I realize most folks here probably already know this information, but it was presented so succinctly I thought it might benefit someone.
PS - Also, I'm wondering what some of you might think about these PDF's:
http://web.nossn.com/specvest/nossn....E/bank_not.pdf
http://web.nossn.com/specvest/nossn....LE/con-not.pdf
Interesting David.....seems we are just batshit crazy to these folks.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Merrill
"Nut case. Close his account and send him on his way. These section 411 people are nothing but trouble."
David...have you had any further info from you banker friend who implemented remedy successfully?
yes you can,Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru
a SSN is only need for capital gains,
no interest no gains,
i have opened bank accounts with no SSN, in canada they are called SIN, (mark of the beast or what?)
and they were interest being,
when the lady asked for my SIN i said i don't remember it and i will phone it in to you, never did and it was never a problem,
also i used home made ID with the bank,
the reason banks ask for ID is to protect your account from unauthorized access,
and the bank has a list of ID they can us,
so when you open an account all you have to do is say for security reasons i will only be using this ID to verify who's account it is, have the bank put your home made ID into the record as the ID that will be used and you off to the races,
i still had some tellers asking me if i have any other ID and i say NO,
and then they drop the subject,
May I ask which bank you went to and in what state? I tried Wells Fargo and BBT in Florida and both said no.
May I ask what bank you went to and in which state? I tried Wells Fargo and BBT in Florida and it was a no go.
following...
I recently tried to open a bank account with my local bank , and when they asked for a SSN, I informed them that I didn't have one. They flatly refused and said that without a SSN that they absolutely could NOT open an account of any kind. I then proceeded thus to convince them that they were in the wrong: 1) I informed them that I had terminated my SSN legally in accordance with 20 CFR 3 A7 404.1905 and 2) I informed them that the bank could not be held legally responsible by anyone for failing to obtain a SSN from me pursuant to 31 CFR 103.34(a)(1) and 3) I informed them that under the Internal Revenue Code Section 6041, that they were not even required to provide any taxpayer identification numbers on the Form 1099 that they file with the IRS at the end of the year, and 4) I informed them that pursuant to 26 CFR 301.6109-1(c) that they were under no legal obligation to obtain a SSN from me, and 5) I informed them that 42 USC 408 makes it a FELONY to use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner. After a brief meeting with the banks controller and legal counsel, I received a phone call stating that I would be allowed to open a checking account. Please pass this information along to your readers, in hopes that it may help someone else who may find themselves in this situation.
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Vi...s/bank_ssn.htm
I realize most folks here probably already know this information, but it was presented so succinctly I thought it might benefit someone.
PS - Also, I'm wondering what some of you might think about these PDF's:
http://web.nossn.com/specvest/nossn....E/bank_not.pdf
http://web.nossn.com/specvest/nossn....LE/con-not.pdf[/QUOTE]
Wow salsero one from J.E.M. at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/davids...s/message/2962 was nothing but harassment. Nice post.
I agree with J.E.M. 666: http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Nu...USC_sec666.htm
If you keep a record of the refusal of them to open accounts without SSN, you could sue them $10K+ per instance.
I wrote exclusively to the Suitors on how to do this very task. Look up DUMMY T.I.N. also W8-BEN. Fact is you had best have some standing recognized by some State within the Union of the 50 showing that one of those States recognizes your foreign standing - this is TYPICALLY done with a Corporation Sole as the Sole member in Church.
Be prepared for a lot of blank stares - because the clerks are clerks for a reason - stop and think and maybe you will figure out that one. So there will be push back, but if you have your ducks in a row, then you will have your Declaration of Status, your notice of Standing from a Secretary of State on one of the 50, you private ID issued from within your private law boundary. Notice it is not good for man to be alone - therefore the Scriptures say "where TWO or more are gathered IN MY NAME there too shall I be." The wise will comprehend.
The Key: Genesis 1: 3-5.
God DECLARED
God SAW
God NAMED
Shalom,
Michael Joseph
P.S. You will need to do some study on Trust formation - this will Encompass both State and Church. Then you will want to look into Corporation Sole and then you will want to look into Arizona. I believe that is the ONLY state left that recognizes a Corp Sole in Church as a legal entity - such that the State will grant Standing. Notice "In the Water but Standing OUT of the Water" = no seas - but a firmament surrounding.
I find that this is not required but if someone really desires this way then so be it. It can be done and I know that for a fact = first hand factual witness.
I would not recommend associating with a State in the "Union". Union aka the United States might be domestic to the United States.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Joseph
Quote:
Originally Posted by allodial
I can appreciate that response. But consider this one: Ref 508(c)(1)(a) which has a total exception and exemption to the code. Now I would only register in State with this Standing as Officer in Corporation Sole in Church Ministry. So then the Church always remains without the State and the Corporation Sole is the Sole Office as Liason between Church and State. This is the Bridge. So the Corp Sole would Register with the Sec of State regarding Standing but NOT in regard to Incorporation. This is very important. Rather the Corp Sole is incorporated by Authority derived from the Church. And the State registration is merely for keeping the peace. So now a banker will see that the State can RECOGNIZE the Corporation Sole. So now the Church which is Foreign to the State can by and thru its Counsel [appointed within said Church] appoint men to perform tasks for the Ministry. So then the Corporation Sole might issue a LICENSE to a Church Foundation formed to do business in the State. And therefore we see the Corporation Sole as an OVERSEER in ADMINISTRATION and we see the Foundation doing what it needs to do in State but we see the Church without the State.
So then the Foundation applies for a banking account as a Church AFFILIATED ORGANIZATION - ordained and overseen by the Corporation Sole - for the benefit of both Church and State. The foundation would therefore also be foreign to the State as it is subject to Church Law. As it was Ordained by Church Law.
So then the Banker only needs to see that the Corporation Sole has been Incorporated [Under Church Law] and is recognized by the State of [insert Name]. Like I said I have seen this done with my own two eyes.
Shalom,
Michael Joseph
Then you graduate in the written trust law and know you are The Good Church.
Then you graduate from that and realize you are Elect.
That is where this fellow lives, based upon my calculations over ten years ago.
Better yet, this fellow was suffering seizure of his castle back when the clerk of court attacked his identity:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/894...egrandhall.jpg
http://friends-n-family-research.inf..._falsified.jpg
http://friends-n-family-research.inf..._corrected.jpg
I sent $350 to Congress with a summons, like a civil suit to MANSPEAKER accusing him of falsifying information on court documents. Notice the dates. MANSPEAKER corrected the certificates and was replaced soon after that.
Graduation replaces registration. Being in that Zone faith provides is the only safety. Like how MJ points out that all the states of the Union are repealing any allusion to corporation sole. The States are graduating from providing for that METRO/municipal priesthood trustee-ecclesia by statute.
Regards,
David Merrill.
I recently attempted to open a bank account at US Bank without an SSN in California. Here's how it went.
Having no bank account, I cash all my checks at a branch of the bank upon which they're drawn. A friend with whom I do business has a US Bank account and pays me with checks drawn on that account. When I would go in to a local branch to cash the check, the teller would ask me if I had a bank account to which I would reply that I do not. They would then ask if I'd like to open one, and I would give them the same response I gave to all other tellers at all other banks that asked: not unless I can open one without a SSN. To my surprise, the US Bank teller said they could and would.
So I went in one day to open an account, having spoken to the branch manager and confirmed that I would simply need two forms of ID. I have a state ID card (that I got only because I found it nearly impossible to use my "functionally equivalent" identification to otherwise cash checks) but nothing else. After some discussion it was determined that I could use a vehicle registration form. My wife's car is still registered with the state, so I was able to use the registration renewal form as a second ID. I also believe a marriage license would be acceptable as well, based on something I read somewhere in the CA statutes that allowed for alternative ID for some specific purpose and a marriage license was one of the items mentioned.
The clerk was unable to enter all 9's or 0's in the SSN field. The only way to make the SSN field go away was to select a county other than "United States" from the drop down list, but I didn't want to represent myself as being a citizen of any other country (which would be a lie, probably an unfortunate one at that). I told her I was a citizen of California, and explained dual citizenship in the US (state v. federal) and she was very fascinated and appreciated the lesson, but that didn't help the computer understand my status. Passing myself off as an "American National" was of no use either. The clerk let me look at the country scroll down list and I didn't find anything that I would feel comfortable using. The only logical choice available was "United States".
So, no go. I continue to research this. I know there is a way.
I too have been looking into opening a small account based on a best scenario:
The Ideal: Find a SMALL state Credit Union (State, NOT Federal Credit Union, nor FDIC insured. The determining giveaway here is merely the lack of the word Federal; just "Credit Union") rather than a bank, in perhaps a State with no income tax like South Dakota or Washington. Open a NON-interest bearing account and get your Lawful Money verbiage on your signature card.
The Problem:
I've seen older SSN cards say they are not to be used as ID. Even with a SSN, passport, Driver's Lic., Birth Certificate and credit card, the establishment points out the Patriot Act, and requires a utility bill (?!?!) and/or picture ID with your current home address. What to do when you don't have a current home address such as a full time RV'er in transition, and don't want to subject yourself to REAL ID intrusions nor establish residency. Trying to quash some burocracy.
The Solution?
Eliminating the tellers and going to the manager may be best, but knowing what to say/show first would help. Charm wit and smiles aside, I imagine one being not worth the hassle by the time you get the signature card verbiage attempted. Any others in this scenario have any suggestions? I am open to out of state options. I've tried while recently in Fl. Maybe I'll have to try an out of country option?
The Notice and Demand (NaD) process directly on the Federal Reserve bank is a good method. Once the papers are all marked up you can serve it on the bank manager and forget about the signature card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peaceful
Some suitors simply file a 1040 with redeemed lawful money demands on the paychecks for evidence. The memorandums to IRS agents do not cover anything specific about redeeming lawful money so whenever they assess a frivpen they are outside the scope of their authority. The NaD replaces the Libel of Review (LoR) only because the filing fee for the federal civil suit has been bumped steadily by $50 increments.
Also that when opening a new account the program that is now used around the world does NOT ALLOW for small caps input, as everything is done in All Caps to insure that you are entered into the banks computer system as a "Corporation", I tried to open a new account for direct deposit and requested my name be inputted in small caps and it could not be done I inquired as to why and the bank manager demanded that I leave the bank, and he not answer any questions, he did however say that he was NOT interested in my business...needless to say I did not open an account at that branch.
X
That was not true a few years ago when this account was established: http://jesse2012.com/signcard.jpg
Both the Account Title & Name 1 printed out in Lower Cap.
Did you sign a W-9 for that account?
There are folks are filling out W-8BEN forms and changing their status to Non-Resident Alien. This doesn't effect the man's status as being a State National but changes the status of the person from being a US Citizen so that the NAME no longer is such.
Pretty much you dont go into a bank presenting your person as a U.S. citizen and expect to open the account without an SSN.
People do it everyday. http://jesse2012.com/signcard.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by allodial
Looking closely you'll see the "Under penalties of perjury, I certify that..." language is straight from the IRS Form W-9.
Bank of America does not hide it, Substitute Form W-9: http://jesse2012.com/BAsigncard.jpg
These signature agreements are examples of an easy way to quickly establish a lawful money bank account for the person with the SSN. The person has the SSN, not me. But I use the account for my benefit. Works great for direct deposits and has not hindered my 8 year success as a NONtaxpayer.
If you'd like to establish a bank account without SSN using Form W-8BEN, you should seek out Michael Joseph. He's the goto guy for this. You may want a good grasp of trust law to get 'r done.
Why was the W-9 signed at all? You can request a non-interest account with no W-9 requirement or you can just deny to sign the W-9 uunder the agreement that they will not pay interest on deposits. I went in asking for a non-interest bearing account and they said, "We don't have any of those." But when I wouldn't sign the W-9 they said, 'Then you will not receive interest on the account." EXACTLY! That is what I asked for!
I looks like there might be a typo and you meant to say. "without an SSN".Quote:
Originally Posted by allodial
Corrected. TYVM.
As was much discussed on the older sites (2000 to 20010), one can file a fictitious reg with the SoS or County Clerk or something like that showing John Henry of the private household called "Smith" near Lallapalooza, Tennessee doing business as JOHN SMITH, 100 Main St., Memphis, TN 00000 or the like. One could even obtain an EIN and bring both fictitious registration and the IRS EIN assignment to the bank. Perhaps alternatives might come to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCash
The W9 was signed to obtain the bank account, deposit lawful money, pay no income tax, & end the FED.
I'm sure we'd all be interested in the agreement you signed for the non-interest bearing account. Could you sanitize & share?
Thanks
All I did was refuse to sign a W-9. They then said that the account would not be paid interest and I said, OK. No W-9 was signed just the standard account agreement. This was before demanding lawful money so there was no editing made to the account agreement/signature card.
The W-9 is merely a permission slip for the IRS to receive account information from the bank about your account.