12 usc 415

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11-12-12, 02:40 PM
Seosaidh

12 usc 415

Has anyone ever noticed the way Federal Reserve is capitalized in 415, as oppposed to the way Federal reserve is capitallized in 411?

Quote:

12 USC 415 Any Federal Reserve bank may at any time reduce its liability for outstanding Federal Reserve notes by depositing with the Federal Reserve agent its Federal Reserve notes, gold certificates, Special Drawing Right certificates, or lawful money of the United States. Federal Reserve notes so deposited shall not be reissued, except upon compliance with the conditions of an original issue. The liability of a Federal Reserve bank with respect to its outstanding Federal Reserve notes shall be reduced by an amount paid by such bank to the Secretary of the Treasury under section 4 of the Old Series Currency Adjustment Act.

Quote:

12 USC 411 Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.1

Does this change the meaning? Are there different species of Federal Reserve Notes? What's the deal with this?
11-12-12, 08:44 PM
David Merrill

Yes. Or at least there were different kinds of notes back then. Grammatically you are likely on to something. Reserve in lower case means a noun in general. I have been thinking for a long time that it was "Federal Reserve notes". I am embarrassed to have missed that but it really means thank you for pointing it out and I have not processed what it means, if anything yet.
11-13-12, 12:49 AM
Seosaidh

I'm looking forward to hearing whatever your cogitations supply. :)
11-13-12, 01:53 AM
martin earl

http://www.banknoteden.com/Legal%20Tender.htm

That is a wonderful write up of the various "notes" and the ramifications of each on the DEBT.

"So, great. But what do these obligations mean? Well, remember that these notes were actual U. S. debt issued by the US Treasury. Therefore, at certain times, restrictions on their use were deemed necessary to avoid the treasury to default. Acceptance of U. S. notes issued by the treasury for interest on its debt (which includes these notes) would be silly. They wanted notes which were backed by other banks or government agencies, like the Federal Reserve." from the above link.

The converse is also true, the surrender of "lawful money" from the FED reserve "lawful money" back to the treasury would directly effect the debt. This is why I have an issue with the IRS sending refunds to redeemers (not an issue with that per se) my issue is that the IRS

might not be letting the treasury know we are redeeming lawful money and reducing the amount of goods and services pledged to the Federal Reserve.
11-13-12, 04:56 AM
David Merrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin earl

http://www.banknoteden.com/Legal%20Tender.htm

That is a wonderful write up of the various "notes" and the ramifications of each on the DEBT.

"So, great. But what do these obligations mean? Well, remember that these notes were actual U. S. debt issued by the US Treasury. Therefore, at certain times, restrictions on their use were deemed necessary to avoid the treasury to default. Acceptance of U. S. notes issued by the treasury for interest on its debt (which includes these notes) would be silly. They wanted notes which were backed by other banks or government agencies, like the Federal Reserve." from the above link.

The converse is also true, the surrender of "lawful money" from the FED reserve "lawful money" back to the treasury would directly effect the debt. This is why I have an issue with the IRS sending refunds to redeemers (not an issue with that per se) my issue is that the IRS

might not be letting the treasury know we are redeeming lawful money and reducing the amount of goods and services pledged to the Federal Reserve.

So do I. I just do not let it bother me. For now I find it rewarding to teach people how to redeem and form a record of it.

Many years ago though, early in the redemption process a suitor deposited a rubber paycheck. This simulates how when the bank returned his paycheck to him they tore off the non-endorsement verbiage:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/469...tstamptorn.jpg
11-13-12, 12:49 PM
David Merrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seosaidh

Has anyone ever noticed the way Federal Reserve is capitalized in 415, as oppposed to the way Federal reserve is capitallized in 411?

Quote:

12 USC 415 Any Federal Reserve bank may at any time reduce its liability for outstanding Federal Reserve notes by depositing with the Federal Reserve agent its Federal Reserve notes, gold certificates, Special Drawing Right certificates, or lawful money of the United States. Federal Reserve notes so deposited shall not be reissued, except upon compliance with the conditions of an original issue. The liability of a Federal Reserve bank with respect to its outstanding Federal Reserve notes shall be reduced by an amount paid by such bank to the Secretary of the Treasury under section 4 of the Old Series Currency Adjustment Act.

Quote:

12 USC 411 Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.1

Does this change the meaning? Are there different species of Federal Reserve Notes? What's the deal with this?

I have chosen to re-emphasize your opening post. The last time Section 411 was amended was 1935.

Quote:

(Dec. 23, 1913, ch. 6, ? 16 (par.), 38 Stat. 265; Jan. 30, 1934, ch. 6, ? 2(b)(1),48 Stat. 337; Aug. 23, 1935, ch. 614, title II, ? 203(a),49 Stat. 704.)

Section 415 obviously has more recent amendments. Special Drawing Rights - SDR's - Paper Gold was not invented for a currency until the Secret Jamaica Rambouillet Accord of 1976; piggybacked on the Bretton Woods Agreements Amendents:

Quote:

(Dec. 23, 1913, ch. 6, ? 16 (par.), 38 Stat. 267; June 21, 1917, ch. 32, ? 7,40 Stat. 237; Jan. 30, 1934, ch. 6, ? 2(b)(5),48 Stat. 339; Aug. 23, 1935, ch. 614, title II, ? 203(a),49 Stat. 704; Pub. L. 87?66, ? 8(a),June 30, 1961, 75 Stat. 147; Pub. L. 90?269, ? 5,Mar. 18, 1968, 82 Stat. 50; Pub. L. 90?349, ? 5(b),June 19, 1968, 82 Stat. 189.)

At least so I had presumed! It appears that SDR's had actually been around prior to 1968 and they were not substituted for gold as the basis for the exchange rate for trading domestic and foreign US dollars. The last amendment to Section 415 was made in 1968. In 1975 Undersecretary (Treasury) KATZ was speaking of replacing gold with SDR's:

http://www.ecclesia.org/forum/images.../SeizeGold.jpg

To track this historical impact on money in America one might better look at Public Law 94-564. Especially Pages 3 and Page 4 showing the Secret nature of the agreement between France and America:

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/55/pl945643.jpg

I have written about the Bloodline extensively and presented it in context of perpetual inheritance through the Bible, The Redemption Model of Jesus CHRIST and the Patroons from the Dutch East Indies Trading Company. This thread is examing the grammatical purpose in the capitalization of a letter.

Quote:

Section 415 Amendments

1968?Pub. L. 90?349added Special Drawing Right certificates to the types of deposits which Federal Reserve banks may use in reducing their liability for outstanding Federal Reserve notes.
Pub. L. 90?269struck out second par. (sixth par. of section 16 of Act Dec. 23, 1913), which read as follows: ?The Federal Reserve agent shall hold such gold certificates or lawful money available exclusively for exchange for the outstanding Federal Reserve notes when offered by the Reserve bank of which he is a director. Upon the request of the Secretary of the Treasury the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System shall require the Federal Reserve agent to transmit to the Treasurer of the United States so much of the gold certificates held by him as collateral security for Federal Reserve notes as may be required for the exclusive purpose of the redemption of such Federal Reserve notes, but such gold certificates when deposited with the Treasurer shall be counted and considered as if collateral security on deposit with the Federal Reserve agent.?
1961?Pub. L. 87?66provided for reduction of liability for outstanding notes by payment of notes of series prior to 1928.
1934?Act Jan. 30, 1934, struck out ?gold? wherever it appeared before ?gold certificates,? and inserted ?certificates? after ?gold? wherever latter stood alone.

Neither Section's amendments shed light on the difference in capitalization so I will look at the Federal Reserve Act itself Page 267, photo 469 in the linked images. There we find that the spellings are identical in capitalization - Federal reserve notes.

The public law - The Act itself linked there for you (if you have trouble pulling up the images mover your cursor to the right for a pop-up pull-down menu) is how Congress wrote the law. Since Congress can move around from subject to subject attorneys then codify the laws of Congress into Code - meaning they arrange law by topic. Title 12 USC is the Banking Code and it relates closely to Title 31 and other Codes too.

You may have discovered a typo.

On the other hand, you may have uncovered a sublime alteration in the reading of the original intent at the basis of our currency system. From here the discussion should be, in my opinion what impact any attorney would be implementing by changing the "R" from a noun in general "reserve" to a noun in specific "Reserve"?

Thanks!! Nice Catch!

Also, I like to think I am observant about such things. So I believe that at some time I checked for the spelling and capitalization and stumbled across a rendition of Section 411 that was spelled Federal Reserve notes as I have been spelling it that way whenever quoting from memory. Now that I am looking for it, I shall find it very soon.
11-13-12, 02:17 PM
Seosaidh

Thank you, David. I will ruminate for a while on the information you provided. I've been thinking about what the possible implications could be since I first posted yesterday. The way my mind works, I'll be chewing on it until something breaks loose. Hopefully it will be pertinent to the conversation, and I'll be able to contribute something worthwhile.
11-14-12, 03:37 PM
Chex

Let us now examine the "mechanics" of the swindle here
11-14-12, 08:30 PM
Seosaidh

Federal Reserve notes are federal reserve notes, but it could be that federal reserve notes are not necessarily limited to Federal Reserve notes. ;)
11-15-12, 01:44 AM
David Merrill

Rumination might include my informal definition of SDR's.

I consider SDR's to be the measure of the conditioning of society to blindly endorse private credit from the local central bank.
11-15-12, 03:02 AM
Seosaidh

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Rumination might include my informal definition of SDR's.

I consider SDR's to be the measure of the conditioning of society to blindly endorse private credit from the local central bank.

Until I started coming to this forum, I had heard of SDR's, and understood they were a basket of currencies, but that's all. I'm still trying to soak up the knowlwedge here, seasoned with people's experience. It is amazing to me.

I do have a take on why people continue endorsing private credit, though. It started back in 1929, and people became frightened about the prospect of losing everything. Their president told them it was patriotic to adopt the new system, so they did. Then along came WWII, and out of that the US emerged as the world's super-power, relatively unscathed by the war.

The economy took off. Another generation came up, and did what their parents did: they endorsed private credit, and they appeared to prosper.

But now people are frightened again. I speak from experience. I am approaching the act of redeeming lawful money very skittishly. I don't want trouble with law enforcement. On the other hand, I see it's the right thing to do. So tomorrow, I'm changing the signature on my DL.

After that, I'll begin making my demand for lawful money at one of my banks to see how it goes.
11-15-12, 07:08 AM
David Merrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seosaidh

Until I started coming to this forum, I had heard of SDR's, and understood they were a basket of currencies, but that's all. I'm still trying to soak up the knowlwedge here, seasoned with people's experience. It is amazing to me.

I do have a take on why people continue endorsing private credit, though. It started back in 1929, and people became frightened about the prospect of losing everything. Their president told them it was patriotic to adopt the new system, so they did. Then along came WWII, and out of that the US emerged as the world's super-power, relatively unscathed by the war.

The economy took off. Another generation came up, and did what their parents did: they endorsed private credit, and they appeared to prosper.

But now people are frightened again. I speak from experience. I am approaching the act of redeeming lawful money very skittishly. I don't want trouble with law enforcement. On the other hand, I see it's the right thing to do. So tomorrow, I'm changing the signature on my DL.

After that, I'll begin making my demand for lawful money at one of my banks to see how it goes.

Thank you.

You might consider an evidence repository and record forming as a good next step.
11-15-12, 11:59 AM
Seosaidh

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Thank you.

You might consider an evidence repository and record forming as a good next step.

I fully intend on getting one. My DL renewal came up first, so I'm going to seperate the man from the cestui que trust first, at least on that document. When I get the money an evidence repository is next.
11-15-12, 02:15 PM
David Merrill

They seem to have gotten a memo as I call it and the US clerks are not opening Miscellaneous Case files ($39 now $46) for "miscellaneous" purposes. It is still Libel of Review then (350). Fine!

It is good to have a default judgment published.
11-15-12, 09:43 PM
shikamaru

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Rumination might include my informal definition of SDR's.

I consider SDR's to be the measure of the conditioning of society to blindly endorse private credit from the local central bank.

SDRs are considered collateral or "lawful money" for the issuance and backing of FRNs as are gold certificates, US Treasuries, and agency securities.

FRNs are liens on the collateral backing the notes according to the FRB.
11-15-12, 11:22 PM
David Merrill

Of course my definition is my own but it serves me well. One term for SDR's is "paper gold".
11-15-12, 11:24 PM
shikamaru

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Of course my definition is my own but it serves me well. One term for SDR's is "paper gold".

As George Gordon would say, "Paper gold is not gold" :).
11-16-12, 07:43 AM
David Merrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by shikamaru

As George Gordon would say, "Paper gold is not gold" :).

I think more clearly: Paper gold is human flesh as chattel.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7...ascurrency.jpg

That is a key part of the Libel of Review, the Law of the Flag.

http://www.ecclesia.org/forum/images.../SeizeGold.jpg

It is a great asset to have an evidence repository in the "exclusive original cognizance" of the US government based on this identification with being created in the Image of God and not made in the image of man.

Regards,

David Merrill.
11-16-12, 07:02 PM
Seosaidh

It just occurred to me: Federal Reserve notes are redeemable in United States coin and other United States currency. I think technically, since they can be redeemed, FRN's are not fiat currency. Unless I'm misunderstanding what fiat means.
11-17-12, 03:16 PM
David Merrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seosaidh

It just occurred to me: Federal Reserve notes are redeemable in United States coin and other United States currency. I think technically, since they can be redeemed, FRN's are not fiat currency. Unless I'm misunderstanding what fiat means.

I think that goes to US notes being fiat currency. As I understand that to mean bank notes - currency with no intrinsic value.
11-17-12, 06:25 PM
shikamaru

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

I think that goes to US notes being fiat currency. As I understand that to mean bank notes - currency with no intrinsic value.

But what does it mean to have "intrinsic value"?
What is value? How is it defined? What is its nature and criteria?
11-18-12, 01:09 AM
David Merrill

I meant metal.
11-18-12, 01:15 PM
shikamaru

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

I meant metal.

Aside from industrial and ornamental usage and its de facto universal acceptance, what value is gold or silver?
You can't eat it. It gets heavy after a few ounces.

The true value, I assert, of gold and silver specie is its de facto universal acceptance for commerce and exchange, not its "intrinsic value".
11-18-12, 04:24 PM
Chex

Quote:

Originally Posted by shikamaru

Aside from industrial and ornamental usage and its de facto universal acceptance, what value is gold or silver?
You can't eat it. It gets heavy after a few ounces.

The true value, I assert, of gold and silver specie is its de facto universal acceptance for commerce and exchange, not its "intrinsic value".

The destruction or damage of certificates won’t hurt investors and is mainly a “nuisance” for the DTCC, James Steven Rogers, a professor at Boston College Law School, said in a telephone interview. He was the principal drafter of the 1994 revision to the commercial law of investment securities that deals with issues such as what happens when a person has lost a certificate.

“In equity securities the presence or absence of the piece of paper is essentially irrelevant,” Rogers said. “If someone can by other means prove the ownership, they can work it out. It might just be a nuisance to replace the certificates. It has no systemic impact on markets.”

Read more: Stock, Bond Certificates in DTCC Vault Damaged by Sandy Flooding : http://www.moneynews.com/FinanceNews...1/15/id/464251
11-19-12, 12:38 AM
David Merrill

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by shikamaru

Aside from industrial and ornamental usage and its de facto universal acceptance, what value is gold or silver?
You can't eat it. It gets heavy after a few ounces.

The true value, I assert, of gold and silver specie is its de facto universal acceptance for commerce and exchange, not its "intrinsic value".

The simple facts are difficult to argue. I can eat small pieces of gold though. I just have never done it.

So I may be getting your point incorrect.

I have spent a little time and believe that fiat began in America post-Constitution in around 1815 - the War of 1812 Era it is called. So I still believe it is Emergency-based but have proposed for a while that it was 1861, that Emergency. I was trying to find somebody who could show me differently with that assertion and finally got some better information.

The American Numismatic Association - the exhibits are - Money of the Civil War and The History of Money.
11-19-12, 08:48 PM
shikamaru

Don't get me wrong ....
I'm a big fan of precious metals :).

I'm just saying let's keep things in perspective. Gold and silver specie are tools. Tools to be utilized.
11-20-12, 09:31 AM
David Merrill

I am just saying that you tempt me; I might try eating some.
11-20-12, 05:25 PM
stoneFree

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldschläger
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/234/51...c17c959fdd.jpg