New World Banking Order?

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07-27-13, 07:44 PM
allodial

2 Attachment(s)

New World Banking Order?

This is from a November 1908 statement of THE NATIONAL BANK OF THE REPUBLIC OF CHICAGO

Attachment 1262

Quote:

THE CLEARING HOUSES of the country do not even yet have any adequate conception of their own power. Clearing house government is still in the process of evolution. As a mechanism for the clearing of checks and the clearing house system is complete. But it is more than a mere machine. In a larger sense of the word it is Government, and it only needs further development to take the place of all police power so far as the world of credits is concerned, and credits really rule the world.

Take the events of the past year as illustrations of the growth of the clearing house power. In the hour of panic it was the clearing house far more than the Government that checked the tide of disaster.

The bank examinations of the Government being insufficient, the clearing houses are now beginning to institute examinations of their own. They are creating a system of regulation far more effective than that which the Government has instituted. They are providing a guarantee of solvency and payment far more powerful than any system of Government guarantee which Congress can devise.

But there are larger possibilities of development in the clearing house system than even these achievements disclose. This country needs such concentration and flexibility of reserves as would promote its financial stability; and what the Government has been unable to do it is within the power of the clearing houses to accomplish whenever they are conscious of their power and ready to exercise it.
07-28-13, 02:37 AM
JohnnyCash

http://deanhenderson.wordpress.com/2...ight-families/
08-16-13, 02:49 AM
JohnnyCash

I just ran across a video series that makes the fraud of our monetary system accessible to the average worker. Talks about the history of money and where we're headed.

Hidden Secrets Of Money
1 - Currency vs. Money
2 - Seven Stages Of Empire
08-19-13, 10:10 AM
David Merrill

Thank you!
11-09-13, 07:06 PM
verynewtothis

I take issue with that video.

The Secret of Oz (by Mr Bill Still)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7qIhDdST27g

WHY DO YOU NEED a single commodity such as GOLD to be or to BACK the currency (which is basically a system of money whereby the bills and coins themselves are used by a particular Country) to be USED by the people IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY?

I find that gold has the ability to be too easily, internally and externally manipulated...value wise. Plus remember the LIBOR (London Interbank Offered Rate) scandal. Well, if your Country just NATIONALISED its own central bank…what I mean by NATIONALISE is make that central bank at arm’s length from the government, but make it answerable to the government and create binding legislation on said NATIONALISED central bank, whereby it is mandated for said bank to control inflation. And by said central bank being bound in that way, it will control the QUANTITY of currency (I previously defined it ABOVE) in circulation in that particular Country’s economy. Also make very sure that said bank is the ONLY bank that can create money….By simply imposing on ALL allege lending institutions in that particular Country a 100 % Reserve Requirement…That will help to control inflation as well it will put an END to this BS Fractional Reserve Banking System. Also since this NATIONALIZED central bank can now create money…it takes care of the liquidity issue as well. Plus, since said central bank is now the only bank that can create money and since it is NOT private any more, all the money generated through the seigniorage process will now go to the Country’s coffers. This will help to alleviating the tax burdens put on that Country’s citizens.
Any newly created money can be SPENT into circulation hopefully on social programmes, infrastructure projects and that kind of stuff only to BENEFIT the citizens (the people(s)) of that Country ONLY WHEN NEEDED…I believe that this could be achieve!
(Please check out these seven videos DIRECTLY BELOW:)

I think that you should check out this video, named “Money as Debt - Fractional Reserve Banking part 4 of 5” and advance this video to the 6 15 mark on its counter and LET it run to the 7 05 mark, again on its counter to basically show you when, how and who is responsible for the starting of the current DEBT based system. Basically when and by who chartered the Fractional Reserve Banking system into use:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=d-pSfYDrWaQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmmz5fwPTeM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iozNDCYMjSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j-tMQ0jGys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwREDNblHiI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRreIFwgekM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c14Nfg3pE1E

A Country’s currency (Again, I previously defined it ABOVE) that is generated by a NATIONALISED bank that maintains its NATURAL RESOURCES, like gold, silver, plus other precious metals, copper, diamonds, oil, trees, water, and the like that your Country OWNS / has. Not to mention the other ASSETS your Country OWNS / has as well. Plus the ingenuity of its citizenry. But, once those ASSETS are privatizes...[COLOR="#FF0000"]What does a Country have that backs its currency…its money externally?[COLOR="#FF0000"] Food for thought…

The concept pertaining to or of Tally Sticks is the solution to the Quantity of Money problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQVAabQ0JcM
SR 10 January 9, 2010 Still Report
11-10-13, 02:09 PM
David Merrill

Quote:

Originally Posted by verynewtothis

I take issue with that video.

The Secret of Oz (by Mr Bill Still)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7qIhDdST27g

WHY DO YOU NEED a single commodity such as GOLD to be or to BACK the currency (which is basically a system of money whereby the bills and coins themselves are used by a particular Country) to be USED by the people IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY?

I find that gold has the ability to be too easily, internally and externally manipulated...value wise. Plus remember the LIBOR (London Interbank Offered Rate) scandal. Well, if your Country just NATIONALISED its own central bank…what I mean by NATIONALISE is make that central bank at arm’s length from the government, but make it answerable to the government and create binding legislation on said NATIONALISED central bank, whereby it is mandated for said bank to control inflation. And by said central bank being bound in that way, it will control the QUANTITY of currency (I previously defined it ABOVE) in circulation in that particular Country’s economy. Also make very sure that said bank is the ONLY bank that can create money….By simply imposing on ALL allege lending institutions in that particular Country a 100 % Reserve Requirement…That will help to control inflation as well it will put an END to this BS Fractional Reserve Banking System. Also since this NATIONALIZED central bank can now create money…it takes care of the liquidity issue as well. Plus, since said central bank is now the only bank that can create money and since it is NOT private any more, all the money generated through the seigniorage process will now go to the Country’s coffers. This will help to alleviating the tax burdens put on that Country’s citizens.
Any newly created money can be SPENT into circulation hopefully on social programmes, infrastructure projects and that kind of stuff only to BENEFIT the citizens (the people(s)) of that Country ONLY WHEN NEEDED…I believe that this could be achieve!
(Please check out these seven videos DIRECTLY BELOW:)

I think that you should check out this video, named “Money as Debt - Fractional Reserve Banking part 4 of 5” and advance this video to the 6 15 mark on its counter and LET it run to the 7 05 mark, again on its counter to basically show you when, how and who is responsible for the starting of the current DEBT based system. Basically when and by who chartered the Fractional Reserve Banking system into use:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=d-pSfYDrWaQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmmz5fwPTeM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iozNDCYMjSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j-tMQ0jGys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwREDNblHiI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRreIFwgekM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c14Nfg3pE1E

A Country’s currency (Again, I previously defined it ABOVE) that is generated by a NATIONALISED bank that maintains its NATURAL RESOURCES, like gold, silver, plus other precious metals, copper, diamonds, oil, trees, water, and the like that your Country OWNS / has. Not to mention the other ASSETS your Country OWNS / has as well. Plus the ingenuity of its citizenry. But, once those ASSETS are privatizes...[COLOR="#FF0000"]What does a Country have that backs its currency…its money externally?[COLOR="#FF0000"] Food for thought…

The concept pertaining to or of Tally Sticks is the solution to the Quantity of Money problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQVAabQ0JcM
SR 10 January 9, 2010 Still Report

I believe you are making a great point.

In America and abroad to some extent we have United States currency notes. Given some time I could grab the citation but as I recall postage stamps, USPS Money Orders, Special Drawing Rights (SDR's) and pursuant to notes of 31 USC §5115 US notes are now included pegged to the value of FRN's by a name substitution. Both the latter are a bane to honest balances and are cause disease.
11-10-13, 11:22 PM
Anthony Joseph

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Merrill

I believe you are making a great point.

In America and abroad to some extent we have United States currency notes. Given some time I could grab the citation but as I recall postage stamps, USPS Money Orders, Special Drawing Rights (SDR's) and pursuant to notes of 31 USC §5115 US notes are now included pegged to the value of FRN's by a name substitution. Both the latter are a bane to honest balances and are cause disease.

I agree.

United States currency notes is the 'nickname' or 'alias' for Federal Reserve Notes which are NOT redeemed so as to obfuscate the most important point; who issues United States notes and who issues United States currency notes? The question of where the notes were issued from (either the United States Treasury or the Federal Reserve) makes the difference between non-elastic public money of the people and elastic private money of the FED.
11-11-13, 02:02 AM
allodial

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Joseph

The concept pertaining to or of Tally Sticks is the solution to the Quantity of Money problem.

Perhaps that is exactly the point being made with respect to redeeming clearinghouse certificates for lawful money. Redeeming the Private Bank Clearinghouse Certificates for lawful money and thusly reverting to the public treasury accounting system which uses "dollars lawful money" rather than "DOLLARS" or "DOLS & CTS".

To knowledge, the word "dollar" is related to the terms "tally", "tallier", "teller" and "tally mark". Just maybe the reason why those who have plotted against America and against mankind and perhaps even against God have been so keen on dumbing down extant educational systems is because their plan appears to requires easily-deceiveable prey? The whole cognitive dissonance campaign against the term 'fiat currency' by those allegedly 'exposing the truth' seems rather missive to me because AFAIK all money/currency is by fiat. As in: someone makes a law or a decree and says "this is money"--the "says" is a decree and thusly a 'fiat'. They'd have us believe 'fiat' to be synonymous with 'fake' or 'fraudulent' and thusly obscuring the truth of what really backs money.

Quote:

WHY DO YOU NEED a single commodity such as GOLD to be or to BACK the currency (which is basically a system of money whereby the bills and coins themselves are used by a particular Country) to be USED by the people IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY?

Good point. However, pegging the value of a currency to gold or silver or even to a bushel of wheat would be helpful for maintaining just weights and balances. On that note, it is said that the American Revolution wasn't about the British Crown going ultra vires over taxes--but instead about interfering with the Colonies printing their own paper currency.

**

P.S. A people not easily deceived would recognize felony larceny when they see it: Communism (not the same as voluntary frateral or sororial communalism IMHO) constructive forgery, embezzlement, mortgage fraud, bailout, waste, squander, elastic currency, etc.--even when felony larceny is dressed up in fancy talk its still felony larceny.

Attachment 1439

NOTE: Larger printable PDF of the scan in the first post has been added to the first post. The scan is from a (1910) book titled Clearinghouse Systems of the World which is to knowledge available freely online.
11-11-13, 01:22 PM
Chex

All posts here are great points in fact.

The FSIA was passed to provide remedy for those whom have a Right to an Article III hearing. Under its grant of authority, Congress was required to provide for remedy for the sovereign American People under threat of Treason. After some 40 year in the wilderness, Congress passed the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act of 1976 as revised in 1996 [“FSIA”]. For the first time since the bankruptcy of 1933, one of the sovereign American People was provided with a reasonable vehicle through which he could receive remedy from the trust; and, the remedy could be achieved in a court close to his place of abode. The reason that the FSIA can be used without taking a benefit from the code, thereby owing consideration, is that it is exculpatory in nature. Use of it takes one out of the code entirely. It simply states that there is no authority to bind this sovereign to the code or its jurisdiction. http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...1977#post11977

I agree.

United States currency notes is the 'nickname' or 'alias' for Federal Reserve Notes which are NOT redeemed so as to obfuscate the most important point; who issues United States notes and who issues United States currency notes?

The question of where the notes were issued from (either the United States Treasury or the Federal Reserve) makes the difference between non-elastic public money of the people and elastic private money of the FED.

Good point. However, pegging the value of a currency to gold or silver or even to a bushel of wheat would be helpful for maintaining just weights and balances. On that note, it is said that the American Revolution wasn't about the British Crown going ultra vires over taxes--but instead about interfering with the Colonies printing their own paper currency.

In essence, when Parliament passed and later tried to enforce legislation affecting America, they simply did not have the power to do so. The acts of Parliament were meaningless and rightfully disregarded by Americans. They were acutely cognizant that Parliament had no more right to ose their will upon America than the King of Spain or the King of France or the long-dead Senate of Rome for that matter. http://www.examiner.com/article/the-...representation

Government fiat definition. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiat

The principle to estimate the monetary value of gold and silver is based on the fact that gold and silver are money. Many people account paper currency as money. That is wrong. Paper currency is just a kind of fiat currency. “The average life expectancy for a fiat currency is twenty-seven years” (Chris Mack, president of Trade Placer). Gold and silver are real money and have been used as money for 5,000 years by all countries. You can easily learn the difference between money and currency on the internet. I don’t need to reiterate here. Just remember that a currency loses its purchasing power as the currency issuer, the central bank, prints more currency. But money (such as gold and silver) will never lose its purchasing power though it may fluctuate during some short periods.

No one can print one ounce of gold or silver.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/value-gold-and-silver

I will use the monetary base and the gold reserve by the Fed as an example to estimate gold’s monetary value in USD. We know that the Fed reserves 261 million ounces of gold (World Gold Council) and the current monetary base is $3,398,930 million in August, 2013 (FED). Therefore, the gold’s monetary value is $13,022 / ounce (3,398,930 / 261). There are some countries such as China and Canada who don’t have enough gold reserve at present to back their currencies. For those countries, we use the global total monetary base and total gold reserve by all central banks to estimate gold’s monetary value as a reference. Fortunately, the result is almost the same as the value we got in the USA. It is about 80,000 yuan / ounce in RMB or $13,000 / ounce in CAD.

Since the Civil War, a series of third parties had criticized Republicans' policy of contracting the money supply. Lincoln's issue of Greenbacks, the first national paper money, had helped finance the war but it also stimulated inflation. In subsequent decades, national Republican leaders sought to withdraw the greenbacks until each dollar had 100% backing in metal reserves. During the economic depressions of the 1870s and 1890s, in particular, this policy was roughly opposite to that which today's Federal Reserve might pursue in an economic downturn. It drew criticism as tending to favor bankers and lenders--who needed the value of a borrowed dollar to hold steady, or increase, until it was repaid--and detrimental to borrowers and workers. http://projects.vassar.edu/1896/currency.html

Sienna answered 11 months ago. Money that comes from commodities, such as gold, or silver, or shells, or tobacco, still retains its value as a commodity. So it has value as money, but also as a commodity. So for example people still desire gold for jewelry or dentistry or industrial uses.

It is this commodity value which originally gives rise to the value of gold for money. Way back before money existed, it was the commodity value of shells or gold or whatever, that originally started the whole ball rolling on the day when people were the gold or shells, not for jewelry, but on purpose so as to give away later in exchange for something else - i.e., as *money*.

Money that comes from paper can be either a money certificate, or a money substitute. A money certificate can be redeemed for that amount of actual money. For example, suppose gold is money. You put 10 ounces on deposit in the bank. The bank gives you a receipt. "This bank promises to pay the bearer of this note 10 ounces of gold on demand".

That's a money *certificate*, because you can exchange it for the original ten ounces. That's how "banknotes" i.e. paper money originates. Instead of carrying gold, you can just carry the paper, and hand it over to any shopkeeper who accepts it. He gives you a TV or whatever, and then he can take the paper to the bank and exchanges it for gold.

A money *substitute* is where the bank has 10 ounces of gold in the vault, but issues 20 ounces worth of banknotes. So 10 ounces are backed by gold, and are money certificates. The other 10 ounces are FRAUD, because anyone borrowing them pays interest, but the actual money is not there on deposit. The bank has made a profit by issuing paper money based on thin air. It is not correct that the value of money comes from government. We know this definitely for two reasons.

1. No money in the history of the world has ever originated in this way. Government paper money *always* originates by hijacking a previously existing money that originated in the market, not by government. and

2. If paper money originated by government, the government would need to specify the price of everything in relation to the price of everything else, on the day of issue. Needless to say, no government has, or could ever have, the knowledge to do that.

What causes depressions and recessions is the issuing of money substitutes - paper money loans unbacked by actual money on deposit.

Government controls interest rates by claiming a monopoly of the right to issue money substitutes. This means that the Federal Reserve is one big engine of fraud. Source(s): http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...7144009AAnxVhP
"The Theory of Money and Credit" by Ludwig von Mises
"What Has Government Done to our Money? by Rothbard

The Nixon Shock of 1971 ended the direct convertibility of the United States dollar to gold. Since then, all reserve currencies have been fiat currencies, including the U.S. dollar and the Euro. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

An intrinsic theory of value (also called theory of objective value) is any theory of value in economics which holds that the value of an object, good or service, is intrinsic or contained in the item itself. Most such theories look to the process of producing an item, and the costs involved in that process, as a measure of the item's intrinsic value. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_theory_of_value

And it all started by this 10 x 10 square miles of 28 USC § 3002 - Definitions 15 A,B,C http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/3002

via through Part VI—Particular Proceedings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal..._Procedure_Act

and for the states http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/te...rt-I/chapter-5
11-11-13, 04:05 PM
JohnnyCash

Well then, I must take issue with you, verynewtothis. In the final analysis Bill Still is a fiat money advocate. His solution is to take the power to create-money-from-nothing (but a signature) away from the banksters and give it to politicians. HA!

Hidden Secrets Of Money
3 - Dollar Crisis To Golden Opportunity
4 - The Biggest Scam In The History Of Mankind
11-11-13, 04:11 PM
Chex

Crozier to Monetary Commission Feb 3 1912 http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=qSs5AAAAMAAJ

Alfred Owen Crozier (1863-1939) was a Midwest attorney who wrote eight books on the political, legal, and monetary problems of the United States.[1] He is best known for his work US Money Vs Corporation Currency, "Aldrich Plan," Wall Street Confessions! Great Bank Combine (1912), which argues against the formation of The Federal Reserve.

He feared national banking, but he feared private control of the United States money system even more.

He also wrote The Magnet: A Romance of the Battles of Modern Giants (1908), Nation of Nations: The Way to Permanent Peace; A Supreme Constitution for the Government of Governments (1914), League of Nations: Shall It Be an Alliance, or a Nation of Nations? Must Be One or the Other! (1919), What Ails our Country?: Cause of and Cure for Booms, Crashes, Depressions and Bank Failures (1933).
11-11-13, 06:36 PM
allodial

2 Attachment(s)

http://www.stockrockandroll.com/wp-c...lion-etf-2.jpg
One key distinction to make is that fine gold and fine silver weren't ever money in the United States. Coins minted and duly stamped were and are money. Raw precious metals aren't money. The fiat (decree) making silver coin of a certain type money makes even silver dollars money by fiat. The perceived value of fine silver or of fine gold is one thing. But it is the markings, the guarantee made by the mint that gives the coin value. The value of the fine metal in the coin is a separate matter to its value as currency or money. Gold and silver or corn or sea shells being satisfactory as exchangeable commodities is a different matter from fiat money/currency.

http://carnier.files.wordpress.com/2...-craftsmen.jpg

As to value, that comes from the artificers and laborers not from the banks. A key thing to comprehend is that the fiat among artificers and laborers is that they wont levy charges of theft when given the money/currency declared by fiat (fiat meaning decree not fraud). Furthermore, fiat currency/money most always serves for payment of taxes.

I suggest that the problem with paper money is when only a select few are able to make use of money issuance. Consider 1% of the population knowing how to issue money and 1% controlling every productive activity vs 70% of the population knowing how to issue money and 70% of the population controlling productive activity and enthusiastic about making their own society work. Key point: the problem has been the education system in the United States of America has been designed to keep most people in the dark as to what money is:

http://www.wordstemplates.org/wp-con...e-Template.jpg

Quote:

What is said to be an unconditional promise to pay a sum certain in money is itself money. Bank of Canada v. Bank of Montreal - Supreme Court of Canada Case, Report # [1978] 1 SCR 1148 .

Attachment 1451
Of course, consider if you were at an arcade or at a carnival: the tokens are only as good as the quality of the games, rides or entertainment. If most US-ians just are into goofing off, being lazy, being unproductive then utility of even gold coin or silver coin would be what? If there was nothing decent to buy or trade the coins for, what good would the coins be? The quality of the 'arcade' or 'market' has to do with the people. And of course the problem in the USA IMHO has not been lazy people. Its been that the banks and the FRB have deliberately kept folks from being able to access capital equipment and resources for their own productivity. There are MANY willing to be productive, but the obstacle has been that banks and businesses have been DELIBERATELY obstructing trade.

There are those who would swear up and down that its "capitalism" thats been the problem. Nope. The American free market mindset has produced excess and abundance of equipment (cars, clothes, etc). But its been those with hard-core Communist mindsets (in control of the United States) that have been making a point to block equipment getting into the hands of the people that need it. Who would figure that free market system in the hands of tyrants could ever serve as 'proof' of "free market's failure"? America has been able to be very charitable to the entire planet. America is even on the record in the British Parliament as saving Europe's ass during the famines that swept Europe.

Quote:

...all American vessels, wherever dispersed, and especially of those laden with corn, which the Americana were honourably sending us in discharge of their debts, and which was necessary to preserve Europe from famine. (Thomas Walpole speaking in British Parlament 1775)

So, why are there hundreds of cars on a car lot and few people able to acquire them? Analysis shows that it has been the FRB and banks that have made a point to see to it that currency flows AWAY FROM where its needed!

On the matter of gold and silver coin. After much analysis, it seems that a key problem with gold and silver coin is when the meltdown value is far higher than the coin face value there would be a tendency for the coins to be taken out of circulation which does what good?

What US-ians unfortunately allowed was for a handful of persons to control industry and money. Evidence shows such didn't necessarily occur solely through dictatorial strong-arming but by DUMBING PEOPLE DOWN. Instead of viewing paper money with despise, perhaps the problem is that people haven't been taking advantage of what is available to them.

It'd be great to see, $5, $20 and $50 coins in circulation. Putting a fine gold $5 coin in circulation when the melt value is ~20 times the face value is a joke (maybe even a sick, sick joke!)--they are giving away the gold at over a 95% discount or they are putting the coins so far out of reach to be worthless as a means of exchange. But AFAIK the bankers have been against $5, $20 and $50 alloy coins. I'd even prefer poker chip type coins over paper FRNs. However, I suspect its been ignorance, lack of knowledge and darkness that has been part of America's ills rather than paper money. Paper money in the hands of a diligent society can be great--because then its more along the lines of mutual forgiveness, discharge for the benefit of all involved (i.e. as long as the guy that wants to clean streets has what he needs and so long as the gal that wants to design skyscrapers has what she needs its all good--without productivity would there be any thing to tax or anything to buy?). Paper money in the hands of an enemy that despises you: different story.

Attachment 1452
11-11-13, 07:21 PM
bobbinville

Actually, the word "dollar" comes from the word "thaler". In old Bohemia, now part of the Czech Republic, silver mines allowed the minting of "thalers" which soon became renowned for their weight and purity. They were known as "Joachimsthalers". The thalers became so widespread that Austria minted the "Maria Theresa Thaler" (David Merrill's avatar is based on it); and in some tribal communities restruck MTTs are still used as money.

The word came to us via the Spanish 8 Reales coin, which like the MTT was trusted for its weight and purity. This coin was known as the Spanish Milled Dollar, which to remedy a lack of small change was sometimes cut into 8 "bits" -- thus, "two bits" were a quarter of a dollar.
11-11-13, 08:00 PM
allodial

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbinville

Actually, the word "dollar" comes from the word "thaler". In old Bohemia, now part of the Czech Republic, silver mines allowed the minting of "thalers" which soon became renowned for their weight and purity. They were known as "Joachimsthalers". The thalers became so widespread that Austria minted the "Maria Theresa Thaler" (David Merrill's avatar is based on it); and in some tribal communities restruck MTTs are still used as money.

The word came to us via the Spanish 8 Reales coin, which like the MTT was trusted for its weight and purity. This coin was known as the Spanish Milled Dollar, which to remedy a lack of small change was sometimes cut into 8 "bits" -- thus, "two bits" were a quarter of a dollar.

Quote:

Thal is German for "dale" or "dell"; they all mean "valley".

Let's see how 'thaler' is related to dell and to valley and to tally and to bill. <3 Linguistics. Every time you make a tally mark you make an impression or a little valley (rhymes with tally!) on the paper, wood or whatever it is. The meaning of "thaler" is important: plate (think die or casting or impression), depression, valley or impression is what matters. Plate is used to make an impression or is made from an impression or casting no? Valley, depression, impression, tally. Tellers (talliers) make impressions (valleys) in paper to keep track of things no and to maintain accounts, no?

http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/160...ey_007642_.jpg

Perhaps thaler/dale is not named just for the trees but for the impression or depression. A tally mark in wood would be quite an impression or a valley, no?

Quote:

Dell - Old English dell "dell, hollow, dale" (perhaps lost and then borrowed in Middle English from cognate Middle Dutch/Middle Low German delle), from Proto-Germanic *daljo (cf. German Delle "dent, depression," Gothic ib-dalja "slope of a mountain"); related to dale (q.v.).

Quote:

dale (n.) Look up dale at Dictionary.com
Old English dæl "dale, valley, gorge," from Proto-Germanic *dalan "valley" (cf. Old Saxon, Dutch, Gothic dal, Old Norse dalr, Old High German tal, German Tal "valley"), from PIE *dhel- "a hollow" (cf. Old Church Slavonic dolu "pit," Russian dol "valley"). Preserved from extinction by Norse influence in north of England.

Attachment 1453

U.S. currency involves a plate making an impression or valleys/dells/depressions in paper. Perhaps wood taken from the dale may have long ago been used to make tally sticks or tally plates. Perhaps wood from the dale might be today used to make dollars or umm impressions or umm depressions or ..rather vallleys in paper with rivers of ink? ;)

http://capl.washjeff.edu/1/l/2721.jpg

Dealers and tellers have something in common: they keep accounts (tally).

Quote:

billet (n.1) Look up billet at Dictionary.com
thick stick of wood, mid-15c., from Middle French billette, diminutive of bille "stick of wood" (see billiards).

Think: bill as in bill of exchange.

Quote:

bullion (n.) Look up bullion at Dictionary.com
early 15c., "uncoined gold or silver," from Anglo-French bullion "bar of precious metal," also "place where coins are made, mint," perhaps, through the notion of "melting," from Old French boillir "to boil," from Latin bullire "boil" (see boil (v.)). But perhaps it is rather from Old French bille "stick, block of wood" (see billiards).

Also noteworthy: Valley / bille [v and b and w having phonetic relation]--wallet (its a ditch or a valley or depression for putting things in). Bullion tends to be marked/stamped with plates...impressions (i.e. little valleys) made into it. Dollar bills and Deutch Marks are made with plates which make impressions into the paper. The words plate has 'tal' in reverse in the middle--some words in Chaldee or Hebrew or other left-to-right-read languages were carried over into other languages which were read right to left. Tablet has 'tel' in reverse at the end. Linking dollar to accounting and tally marks seem to be at the root of it all and not just that: it provides the most light and insight of all!

(Deutsch) Mark / (U.S.) tally. Simple. Russian Ruble = Ruble is related to tearing or ripping. So is slash. Tally marks are slashes.

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slash (n.) Look up slash at Dictionary.com
"a cutting stroke with a weapon," 1570s, from slash (v.); sense of "slit in a garment" is from 1610s; that of "open tract in a forest" is first attested 1825, American English. As a punctuation mark in writing or printing, it is recorded from 1961.

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ruble (n.) Look up ruble at Dictionary.com
unit of the Russian monetary system, 1550s, via French rouble, from Russian rubl', perhaps from Old Russian rubiti "to chop, cut, hew," so called because the original metallic currency of Russia (14c.) consisted of silver bars, from which the necessary amount was cut off; from Proto-Slavic *rub-, from PIE root *reub-, *reup- "to snatch" (see rip (v.)).

Notches made into wood tally blocks or plates were CUTS/SLASHES/GROOVES/VALLEYS/DELLS. U.S tally; Deutch mark/tally/slash; Russian rip/slash. Its all about accounting.

Even the word 'gold' is related to the word for 'yield'. Yield as in like render.

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yield (v.) Look up yield at Dictionary.com
Old English geldan (Anglian), gieldan (West Saxon) "to pay" (class III strong verb; past tense geald, past participle golden), from Proto-Germanic *geldanan "pay" (cf. Old Saxon geldan "to be worth," Old Norse gjaldo "to repay, return," Middle Dutch ghelden, Dutch gelden "to cost, be worth, concern," Old High German geltan, German gelten "to be worth," Gothic fra-gildan "to repay, requite").

Perhaps from PIE *ghel-to- "I pay," found only in Balto-Slavic and Germanic, unless Old Church Slavonic zledo, Lithuanian geliuoti are Germanic loan-words. Sense developed in English via use to translate Latin reddere, French rendre, and had expanded by c.1300 to "repay, return, render (service), produce, surrender." Related to Middle Low German and Middle Dutch gelt, Dutch geld, German Geld "money." Yielding in sense of "giving way to physical force" is recorded from 1660s.

Its all about accounting and courts of record.

Not convinced?

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mark (n.2) Look up mark at Dictionary.com
"unit of money or weight," late Old English marc, a unit of weight (chiefly for gold or silver) equal to about eight ounces, probably from Old Norse mörk "unit of weight," cognate with German Mark, probably ultimately a derivative of mark (n.1), perhaps in sense of "imprinted weight or coin." Used from 18c. in reference to various continental coinages, especially. the silver coin of Germany first issued 1875.

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mark (n.1) Look up mark at Dictionary.com
"trace, impression," Old English mearc (West Saxon), merc (Mercian) "boundary, sign, limit, mark," from Proto-Germanic *marko (cf. Old Norse merki "boundary, sign," mörk "forest," which often marked a frontier; Old Frisian merke, Gothic marka "boundary, frontier," Dutch merk "mark, brand," German Mark "boundary, boundary land"), from PIE *merg- "edge, boundary, border" (cf. Latin margo "margin;" Avestan mareza- "border," Old Irish mruig, Irish bruig "borderland," Welsh bro "district").

The primary sense is probably "boundary," which had evolved by Old English through "sign of a boundary," through "sign in general," then to "impression or trace forming a sign." Meaning "any visible trace or impression" first recorded c.1200. Sense of "line drawn to indicate starting point of a race" (e.g. on your marks ...) first attested 1887. The Middle English sense of "target" (c.1200) is the notion in marksman and slang sense "victim of a swindle" (1883). The notion of "sign, token" is behind the meaning "numerical award given by a teacher" (1829). Influenced by Scandinavian cognates.

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tale (n.) Look up tale at Dictionary.com
Old English talu "story, tale, the action of telling," from Proto-Germanic *talo (cf. Dutch taal "speech, language"), from PIE root *del- "to recount, count." The secondary English sense of "number, numerical reckoning" (c.1200) probably was the primary one in Germanic; cf. teller (see tell) and Old Frisian tale, Middle Dutch tal "number," Old Saxon tala "number," Old High German zala, German Zahl "number."

The ground sense of the Modern English word in its main meaning, then, might have been "an account of things in their due order." Related to talk and tell. Meaning "things divulged that were given secretly, gossip" is from mid-14c.; first record of talebearer "tattletale" is late 15c.

Accounting; courts of record.

Related: Early Accounting: The Tally and Checkerboard.

P.S. the 'franc' or 'frank' in French Franc has to do with marks, stamps, impressions or tallies. The 'mark' or 'tally' being perhaps indicative of measure. Case closed.
11-11-13, 09:23 PM
Chex

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I suggest that the problem with paper money is when only a select few are able to make use of money issuance. Consider 1% of the population knowing how to issue money and 1% controlling every productive activity vs 70% of the population knowing how to issue money and 70% of the population controlling productive activity and enthusiastic about making their own society work. Key point: the problem has been the education system in the states of America has been designed to keep most people in the dark as to what money is:

The largest note ever printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing was the $100,000 Gold Certificate, Series 1934. These notes were printed from December 18, 1934 through January 9, 1935 and were issued by the Treasurer of the United States to Federal Reserve Banks only against an equal amount of gold bullion held by the Treasury. These notes were used for transactions between FRBs and were not circulated among the general public. http://nutmegcollector.blogspot.com/...1_archive.html

DO NOT BID IF YOU WANT A REAL ORIGINAL NOTE! AN ORIGINAL UNCIRCULATED NOTE COULD COST OVER $750,000 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1934-100-000...-/260650967960

LOL Yea like I want to spend $750,000 on a piece of paper.

Nothing in the content of this website and attachments is intended by any Sovereign-Soul-on-the-Dry-Land within the republic State of Texas to constitute, consent to or participate in any "conduct of any trade or business", "commerce" or any transaction within any Federal UNITED STATES, INC., DC, District of Columbia, STATE OF NEW COLUMBIA, STATE OF TEXAS, TX, any DISTRICT OF TEXAS, any COUNTY, CITY enclave of jurisdiction or judicial district, including but without limitation to any "State" or "Federal area" as described at the Buck Act, codified at 4 U.S.C.S. Sections 104-111 and in "JURISDICTION OVER FEDERAL AREAS WITHIN STATES, Report of the Intergovernmental Committee for the Study of Jurisdiction Over Federal Areas within States, Submitted to the Attorney General and President Eisenhower (Part I, April, 1956; Part II, June, 1957.) All fundamental rights created and provided by the Most High God and delivered to HIS Sonnes and Daughters are hereby expressly reserved. http://trsot.squarespace.com/images
11-11-13, 09:41 PM
allodial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chex

The largest note ever printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing was the $100,000 Gold Certificate, Series 1934. These notes were printed from December 18, 1934 through January 9, 1935 and were issued by the Treasurer of the United States to Federal Reserve Banks only against an equal amount of gold bullion held by the Treasury. These notes were used for transactions between FRBs and were not circulated among the general public. http://nutmegcollector.blogspot.com/...1_archive.html

However, promissory notes are issued most every single time someone sits down to make a 'car loan' or a 'mortgage'. Major companies issue billion dollar notes occasionally. In order for the U.S. Treasury or w/e to issue ____ in coins, it might just require someone to put something of value before they give something of value in return. Money exists for facilitating exchange of services and assets and for payment of taxes rather than for its own sake. What the government can or cannot do is one thing. What the private side can do is another.
11-11-13, 10:12 PM
allodial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chex

The FSIA was passed to provide remedy ...

The FSIA's relevance is very much so. Fixation on gold ore or silver or wood or paper distracts from getting to the heart of what money is. Sure, just weights and balances are important. Lawful money preferred over clearinghouse certificates (FRNs).

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Originally Posted by Chex

In essence, when Parliament passed and later tried to enforce legislation affecting America, they simply did not have the power to do so. The acts of Parliament were meaningless and rightfully disregarded by Americans. They were acutely cognizant that Parliament had no more right to ose their will upon America than the King of Spain or the King of France or the long-dead Senate of Rome for that matter.

It was put plainly in an old text that King of England was by default and inherently a principal conservator of the peace. The conservator of the peace having a duty to conserve the peace many not necessarily have power to impoverish and may have a duty to avoid promoting economic instability--if not to promote prosperity to eat least to preserve it.

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

In America and abroad to some extent we have United States currency notes. Given some time I could grab the citation but as I recall postage stamps, USPS Money Orders, Special Drawing Rights (SDR's) and pursuant to notes of 31 USC §5115 US notes are now included pegged to the value of FRN's by a name substitution. Both the latter are a bane to honest balances and are cause disease.

Interestingly, in New Zealand the post office is involved in the issuance of coins.

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New Zealand Post is proud to be the only official issuer of New Zealand legal tender collectable coins in partnership with the Reserve Bank of New Zealand.
11-12-13, 04:05 PM
Chex

Interesting http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...ll=1#post11989

Specifications Mintage Limit: 40,000 ~ Product Limit: 20,000

http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs...egory_rn=10118
11-13-13, 04:54 AM
allodial

1 Attachment(s)

The article referred to in this post gives insight to what happened in the 1960s (likely orchestrated event) when the melt value of silver in the pre-1962 U.S. silver dollars exceeded the face value of the coins.
11-14-13, 04:06 AM
allodial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chex

Crozier to Monetary Commission Feb 3 1912 http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=qSs5AAAAMAAJ

Alfred Owen Crozier (1863-1939) was a Midwest attorney who wrote eight books on the political, legal, and monetary problems of the United States.[1] He is best known for his work US Money Vs Corporation Currency, "Aldrich Plan," Wall Street Confessions! Great Bank Combine (1912), which argues against the formation of The Federal Reserve.

He feared national banking, but he feared private control of the United States money system even more.

He also wrote The Magnet: A Romance of the Battles of Modern Giants (1908), Nation of Nations: The Way to Permanent Peace; A Supreme Constitution for the Government of Governments (1914), League of Nations: Shall It Be an Alliance, or a Nation of Nations? Must Be One or the Other! (1919), What Ails our Country?: Cause of and Cure for Booms, Crashes, Depressions and Bank Failures (1933).

You might find the writings of James Graham Cannon might be a bit more practical as to operations, application and law rather than being political.
11-14-13, 04:11 AM
allodial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chex

Crozier to Monetary Commission Feb 3 1912 http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=qSs5AAAAMAAJ

Alfred Owen Crozier (1863-1939) was a Midwest attorney who wrote eight books on the political, legal, and monetary problems of the United States.[1] He is best known for his work US Money Vs Corporation Currency, "Aldrich Plan," Wall Street Confessions! Great Bank Combine (1912), which argues against the formation of The Federal Reserve.

He feared national banking, but he feared private control of the United States money system even more.

He also wrote The Magnet: A Romance of the Battles of Modern Giants (1908), Nation of Nations: The Way to Permanent Peace; A Supreme Constitution for the Government of Governments (1914), League of Nations: Shall It Be an Alliance, or a Nation of Nations? Must Be One or the Other! (1919), What Ails our Country?: Cause of and Cure for Booms, Crashes, Depressions and Bank Failures (1933).

If you're interested in writings more practical than political you might be interested in those of a James Graham Cannon written around 1899-1910.