GOLD CERTIFITCATES siezed in 1933-34 to be re-released to the public!!

We have from time to time posted about the ~300 Million in Gold coins returned to the Government in 1933-34 by public holders in FDR's "New Deal". I have postulated that it is these exact gold coins that "back" our demand for lawful money per 12 USC 411. I also have postulated that above the $1 and $2 'dollar' denominations, currently issued "FRNS" are in fact, 2 faced Notes, on the left of the note, the FRN, on the right (both sealed and separated by clear and defined boarders) is the US Treasury Note.

I agree with David he has found at least part of these coins, available to public viewing (since it is a public trust and they are public property), he can link that here if he wishes.


Also turned in by the public were 400 million in US Gold Certificates. Now, read this:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz2LHrzwGxQ

"To save $2,000,000 worth of nylon, paper, ink and printing, Treasury employes will dust off some long-stored bundles of pre-Roosevelt Federal Reserve gold notes, put $4,200,000,000 worth into circulation. They won't be, as promised on their face, "redeemable in gold on demand." Like all New Deal Federal Reserve notes, they may be exchanged only for "lawful money of the United States," i.e., smaller bills or coin."

Seems the Treasury itself held on to those Gold Certs and are so desperate to keep new FRNS from being issued, they are returning said notes to circulation!! This is more evidence to me the Gold coins were also held by the US Treasury! Of course, it seems the GOLD offered in redemption of the 400 million Gold Certs is not there any more, since the soon to be re-issued GOLD CERTS can only be redeemed or "LAWFUL MONEY OF THE UNITED STATES".


I have long held there are people at the treasury quietly working to get remedy from the FRN out to the public. Maybe the re issuance of "old gold certs" and the notice they are "redeemable" will get more people asking questions?

Interesting...

Bring your finding here so we can continue the conversation.

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Originally Posted by martin earl

We have from time to time posted about the ~300 Million in Gold coins returned to the Government in 1933-34 by public holders in FDR's "New Deal". I have postulated that it is these exact gold coins that "back" our demand for lawful money per 12 USC 411. I also have postulated that above the $1 and $2 'dollar' denominations, currently issued "FRNS" are in fact, 2 faced Notes, on the left of the note, the FRN, on the right (both sealed and separated by clear and defined boarders) is the US Treasury Note.

I agree with David he has found at least part of these coins, available to public viewing (since it is a public trust and they are public property), he can link that here if he wishes.


Also turned in by the public were 400 million in US Gold Certificates. Now, read this:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz2LHrzwGxQ

"To save $2,000,000 worth of nylon, paper, ink and printing, Treasury employes will dust off some long-stored bundles of pre-Roosevelt Federal Reserve gold notes, put $4,200,000,000 worth into circulation. They won't be, as promised on their face, "redeemable in gold on demand." Like all New Deal Federal Reserve notes, they may be exchanged only for "lawful money of the United States," i.e., smaller bills or coin."

Seems the Treasury itself held on to those Gold Certs and are so desperate to keep new FRNS from being issued, they are returning said notes to circulation!! This is more evidence to me the Gold coins were also held by the US Treasury! Of course, it seems the GOLD offered in redemption of the 400 million Gold Certs is not there any more, since the soon to be re-issued GOLD CERTS can only be redeemed or "LAWFUL MONEY OF THE UNITED STATES".


I have long held there are people at the treasury quietly working to get remedy from the FRN out to the public. Maybe the re issuance of "old gold certs" and the notice they are "redeemable" will get more people asking questions?

Interesting...

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Article from July 13th 1942

Your post contains an intrigueing hypothesis, a profound theory and a most delightful mental model! - All in one post!

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I have long held there are people at the treasury quietly working to get remedy from the FRN out to the public. Maybe the re issuance of "old gold certs" and the notice they are "redeemable" will get more people asking questions?

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I may lose sleep over that.

P.S. After losing some sleep what I find bugging me is that there would be anywhere near $4.2B of these notes in storage. However the Treasury may just be printing up $4.2B in more currency to "inject" into the economy. They will just supplement the effort to create paper by saving $2M with notes they have laying around in the vault?

No wonder it seems to be taking weeks to find a new Secretary! I plugged Secretary of the Treasury bio into a search engine. Four of the Five first hits are about GEITHNER and the second hit is about "acting" Secretary - Deputy Secretary WOLIN. So maybe my Hundred Year Charter theory is signalling the job will only last until Christmas (one hundred years)? Or possibly too, we had Bailouts (license to print without bond), then Derivative Markets went wild and that moved into absurd plunge protection of the Market - which turned into "Quantitative Easing"...

And now, the injection of currency is getting too big for the printing presses?

Maybe it is God. The President just plain can't find anybody stupid enough to take the position? Listen for "David Merrill ((Ed) MURROW) rolling over in his grave..." Something seems ominous to watch the Center for Creative Leadership come into view like the Emerald City (Oz) as Lindsay BUCKINGHAM sings - Faceless gold makes the spirit mean...

Unfortunately...

From the dailypaul...

12 U.S.C. § 341
[quote]
Sec. 4 ... the said Federal reserve bank shall become a body corporate and as such ... shall have power: ... Second. To have succession for a period of twenty years from its organization unless it is sooner dissolved by an Act of Congress, or unless its franchise becomes forfeited by some violation of law. Federal Reserve Act of 1913 (P.L. 63-43, 38 STAT. 251, 12 USC 221).

However, this 20-year corporate life was changed to perpetual in 1927 by Act of Feb. 25, 1927 (44 Stat. 1234) as follows:

Second. To have succession after February 25, 1927, until dissolved by Act of Congress or until forfeiture of franchise for violation of law.
[/quote

This institution is making me physically sick. I can't get over the evil perpetrated. We live in a sort of fairyland, everything since 1913 has been unnatural, fiat money is organized and centralized, and forces business as well as personal development with a steady "invisible" hand, yet this hand controlled by the cartel. Almost everything that has evolved in this country since we went off honest money has been a product of this control. Wars, financial ruin, moral decay has all been perpetrated for the sole purpose of power and financial gain by a small group of men. Part of me is envious, wanting to be "on their side", because their power is limitless. The problem is they have such as grasp, just after a 20 year charter, their "board of governors" from the 2nd Bank of the United States threatened to "ruin" the economy, and even began a campaign against Andrew Jackson. They don't care about the welfare of Americans, it's a profit driven institution. I read most states still have the gold/silver clause but, when FDR pulled the plug on gold in 1933, he effectively suspended those states from operating legally. This is absolute craziness. I'm not sure how to reduce their power, but websites like this, Americans making steps to inform and execute is at the core where it begins. Sorry for the rant...I digress...

A few months ago, I was on the Treasury website and I saw the NOTICE about buying coins at face value and the treasury would ship them free of postage charge.

The posted reason for the program? TO REDUCE THE NATIONAL DEBT! Another subtle move by the Treasury for REDEMPTION per 12 USC 411!! I have looked for it again, but cannot find it, there are so many bulletins on their website I just cannot find it.

That program was ended. People werr ordering thousands of dollars of these coins on their credit cards, and when received, promptly paid off their balances.the whole point was to track up free rewards on the cards. Freaking awesome idea, in a way, its a little similar to what the fed does with FRNs.

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Originally Posted by mikecz

That program was ended. People werr ordering thousands of dollars of these coins on their credit cards, and when received, promptly paid off their balances.the whole point was to track up free rewards on the cards. Freaking awesome idea, in a way, its a little similar to what the fed does with FRNs.

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Amazing! That sounds like the Amendments to the Bretton Woods Agreements (in a way).

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Originally Posted by mikecz

Unfortunately...

From the dailypaul...

12 U.S.C. § 341

Quote:

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Sec. 4 ... the said Federal reserve bank shall become a body corporate and as such ... shall have power: ... Second. To have succession for a period of twenty years from its organization unless it is sooner dissolved by an Act of Congress, or unless its franchise becomes forfeited by some violation of law. Federal Reserve Act of 1913 (P.L. 63-43, 38 STAT. 251, 12 USC 221).

However, this 20-year corporate life was changed to perpetual in 1927 by Act of Feb. 25, 1927 (44 Stat. 1234) as follows:

Second. To have succession after February 25, 1927, until dissolved by Act of Congress or until forfeiture of franchise for violation of law.

This institution is making me physically sick. I can't get over the evil perpetrated. We live in a sort of fairyland, everything since 1913 has been unnatural, fiat money is organized and centralized, and forces business as well as personal development with a steady "invisible" hand, yet this hand controlled by the cartel. Almost everything that has evolved in this country since we went off honest money has been a product of this control. Wars, financial ruin, moral decay has all been perpetrated for the sole purpose of power and financial gain by a small group of men. Part of me is envious, wanting to be "on their side", because their power is limitless. The problem is they have such as grasp, just after a 20 year charter, their "board of governors" from the 2nd Bank of the United States threatened to "ruin" the economy, and even began a campaign against Andrew Jackson. They don't care about the welfare of Americans, it's a profit driven institution. I read most states still have the gold/silver clause but, when FDR pulled the plug on gold in 1933, he effectively suspended those states from operating legally. This is absolute craziness. I'm not sure how to reduce their power, but websites like this, Americans making steps to inform and execute is at the core where it begins. Sorry for the rant...I digress...

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Don't sound so glum.

Thanks for the information. That is important to know about 1927. However it did not change the Run. People (banks) still threatened to run the Fed in 1933 and caused FDR to order up the Bankers' Holiday. It makes more sense to me now. Congress had okayed the perpetuity in 1927? Well, there you have it. I always thought it was just some Presidential constructive trust:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4556/...bondslarge.jpg

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Originally Posted by mikecz

This institution is making me physically sick. I can't get over the evil perpetrated. We live in a sort of fairyland, everything since 1913 has been unnatural, fiat money is organized and centralized, and forces business as well as personal development with a steady "invisible" hand, yet this hand controlled by the cartel. Almost everything that has evolved in this country since we went off honest money has been a product of this control. Wars, financial ruin, moral decay has all been perpetrated for the sole purpose of power and financial gain by a small group of men. Part of me is envious, wanting to be "on their side", because their power is limitless. The problem is they have such as grasp, just after a 20 year charter, their "board of governors" from the 2nd Bank of the United States threatened to "ruin" the economy, and even began a campaign against Andrew Jackson. They don't care about the welfare of Americans, it's a profit driven institution. I read most states still have the gold/silver clause but, when FDR pulled the plug on gold in 1933, he effectively suspended those states from operating legally. This is absolute craziness. I'm not sure how to reduce their power, but websites like this, Americans making steps to inform and execute is at the core where it begins. Sorry for the rant...I digress...

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Gold and silver coin were no panacea against government debasement and ruin of the economy and people .....

A person must always seek to exist outside of commerce altogether.

Be in commerce but not of it.

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

However it did not change the Run. People (banks) still threatened to run the Fed in 1933 and caused FDR to order up the Bankers' Holiday.

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Don't forget the bank holiday of 2001 ......

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Originally Posted by shikamaru

Gold and silver coin were no panacea against government debasement and ruin of the economy and people .....

A person must always seek to exist outside of commerce altogether.

Be in commerce but not of it.

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By substitution then:

The world of commerce.


P.S. Can you refresh us about the 2001 Run with a link? A chart might suffice.

Oh!! You are talking about September 11 - nevermind!

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

Amazing! That sounds like the Amendments to the Bretton Woods Agreements (in a way).



Don't sound so glum.

Thanks for the information. That is important to know about 1927. However it did not change the Run. People (banks) still threatened to run the Fed in 1933 and caused FDR to order up the Bankers' Holiday. It makes more sense to me now. Congress had okayed the perpetuity in 1927? Well, there you have it. I always thought it was just some Presidential constructive trust:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4556/...bondslarge.jpg

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David,

I see now why you put this picture up time and again. It takes people like me 4 maybe 5 times to realize the significance of that quote. FDR was clearly saying "Freaking endorse your checks!". By the way, what book is that from? I definitely will buy and read. Side note...Keep to the plan, and keep posting this, it may seem redundant to you, but others NEED to see this. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by mikecz

David,

I see now why you put this picture up time and again. It takes people like me 4 maybe 5 times to realize the significance of that quote. FDR was clearly saying "Freaking endorse your checks!". By the way, what book is that from? I definitely will buy and read. Side note...Keep to the plan, and keep posting this, it may seem redundant to you, but others NEED to see this. Thanks again.

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Thank you for noticing and prompting a more detailed display. The book set is the Public Papers and Addresses of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. I found the five-book set - FDR's first Administration. 1933 is titled, The Year of Crisis. Before the brain trust was so spread out across America I frequently gave tours and was told by a few new suitors that this book collection as well as the Selden Society cases are reserved only for attorneys in some law libraries! ??? I find that a bit difficult to swallow except that I heard it from more than one fellow trustee.

Here is a fuller image of the page.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8...dsvoluntar.jpg

Here are some more images. I noticed the books are in the background of this abstract video about Name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg0o...mEeDw&index=45

The Paper holds their folded faces to the floor; And every day the Paperboy brings more.

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Originally Posted by David Merrill

Thank you for noticing and prompting a more detailed display. The book set is the Public Papers and Addresses of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. I found the five-book set - FDR's first Administration. 1933 is titled, The Year of Crisis. Before the brain trust was so spread out across America I frequently gave tours and was told by a few new suitors that this book collection as well as the Selden Society cases are reserved only for attorneys in some law libraries! ??? I find that a bit difficult to swallow except that I heard it from more than one fellow trustee.

Here is a fuller image of the page.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8...dsvoluntar.jpg

Here are some more images. I noticed the books are in the background of this abstract video about Name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg0obxZmqrk&list=UUpViuh928nFhhfTDLnmEeDw& index=45

The Paper holds their folded faces to the floor; And every day the Paperboy brings more.

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Where do you find this stuff...

Anyways, I did a quick search on the Selden Volumes. I sent an inquiry in here...http://home.heinonline.org/. According the the website here...http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/...ety/order.html this company should carry all the volumes if your interested. Just curious why you would be interested in their purchase? If you are interested, and the publications are "lawyer only", I do have 4 personal friends who are lawyers who wouldn't mind doing a little bird dogging.

As for the the FDR publication. Do you own the book?


***I found the entire series here for open viewing (and its searchable!!)...
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/ppotpus/...he+white+house

I will be reading this, as there are some definite gems to be uncovered... The picture you have is page 18 of the papers...

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/ppotpus/...he+white+house

A new discovery here, but, page 27...

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/ppotpus/...+reserve+notes

Pretty interesting that 300,000,000 of gold was withdrawn and earmarked for a "foreign account."

Page 28 describes clearly what FDR did to remove the gold...He used the trading with the enemy act... I will report more as I have time to read...

The bottom of page 29 is intriguing... "but after the passage of the Emergenct Banking Acot of March 9, 1933, it became evident that they (emergency demand notes) would not be needed, because the Act made possible the issue of the necessary amount of emergency currenct in the form of Federal Reserve banknotes which could be based on any sound assets owned by banks

Ok, has anyone ever actually read the emergency banking act of 1933? Holy wow...

[quote]
Sec. 4.

In order to provide for the safer and more effective operation of the National Banking System and the Federal Reserve System, to preserve for the people the full benefits of the currency provided for by the Congress through the National Banking System and the Federal Reserve System, and to relieve interstate commerce of the burdens and obstructions resulting from the receipt on an unsound or unsafe basis of deposits subject to withdrawal by check, during such emergency period as the President of the United States by proclamation may prescribe, no member bank of the Federal Reserve System shall transact any banking business except to such extent and subject to such regulations, limitations and restrictions as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Treasury, with the approval of the President. Any individual, partnership, corporation, or association, or any director, officer or employee thereof, violating any of the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $10,000 or, if a natural person, may, in addition to such fine, be imprisoned for a term not exceeding ten years. Each day that any such violation continues shall be deemed a separate offense.

The have to follow the rules, and what are the rules?

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``Upon the deposit with the Treasurer of the United States, (a) of any direct obligations of the United States or (b) of any notes, drafts, bills of exchange, or bank making such deposit in the manner prescribed by the Secretary of the Treasury shall be entitled to receive from the Comptroller of the Currency circulating notes in blank, duly registered and countersigned. When such circulating notes are issued against the security of obligations of the United States, the amount of such circulating notes shall be equal to the face value of the direct obligations of the United States so deposited as security; and, when issued against the security of notes, drafts, bills of exchange and bankers' acceptances acquired under the provisions of this Act, the amount thereof shall be equal to not more than 90 per cent of the estimated value of such notes, drafts, bills of exchange and bankers' acceptances so deposited as security. Such notes shall be the obligations of the Federal reserve bank procuring the same, shall be in form prescribed by the Secretary of the Treasury, shall be receivable at par in all parts of the United States for the same purposes as are national bank notes, and shall be redeemable in lawful money of the United States on presentation at the United States Treasury or at the bank of issue. The Secretary of the Treasury is authorized and empowered of prescribe regulations governing the issuance, redemption, replacement, retirement and destruction of such circulating notes and the release and substitution of security therefor. Such circulating notes shall be subject to the same tax as is provided by law for the circulating notes of national banks secured by 2 per cent bonds of the United States. No such circulating notes shall be issued under this paragraph after the President has declared by proclamation that the emergency recognized by the President by proclamation of March 6, 1933, has terminated, unless such circulating notes are secured by deposits of bonds of the United States bearing the circulation privilege. When required to do so by the Secretary of the Treasury, each Federal reserve agent shall act as agent of the Treasurer of the United States or of the Comptroller of the Currency, or both, for the performance of any of the functions which the Treasurer or the Comptroller may be called upon to perform in carrying out the provisions of this paragraph. Appropriations available for distinctive paper and printing United States currency or national bank currency are hereby made available for the production of the circulating notes of Federal reserve banks herein provided; but the United States shall be reimbursed by the Federal reserve bank to which such notes are issued for all expenses necessarily incurred in connection with the procuring of such notes and all other expenses incidental to their issue, redemption, replacement, retirement and destruction.´´

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There are so many great things in this statement...

1. How I'm interpreting this, when you deposit a US note (currency of the national banking system) notes shall be taken at face value. When issued as a security against the US note, "the amount thereof shall be equal to not more than 90 per cent of the estimated value of such notes, drafts, bills of exchange and bankers' acceptances so deposited as security". Am I crazy here, the US note is a direct obligation of the United States. When issued against the "security" of the US note, it's a federal reserve note and can only be worth 90% the value of the US note, or direct obligation of the United States. It's like a security of a direct obligation..right?

2. The FRNs shall be received in the same manner as the national banking notes, and shall be redeemable. "Such circulating notes shall be subject to the same tax as is provided by law for the circulating notes of national banks secured by 2 per cent bonds of the United States." There is a tax involved. They shall be taxed the same as the notes of national banks that are secured by a 2 per cent bond of the United states, which is different then a note that is a direct obligation of the united states, a us note.

Keep in mind the national banking system... is the system that created US notes


Another point here, start on pg 1950 a Mr.Vanderlip, member of the original jekyll island group talking a Senator into removing us banknotes from circulation. This conversation is dually worth your time to read. Vanderlip talks heavily about the "wastefullness" of carrying the national bank notes, because THEY CANT BE USED AS A RESERVE!!! This is awesome, kind of a break through day, sorry for all the posts.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NcM...%20tax&f=false

I also find it hard to believe that the Treasury has $4.2 billion in Gold Certificates. But presuming that these are issued by the Treasury, and not the Fed, they would be lawful money. But anything the Treasury does these days can only be described as kabuki theatre, designed to misinform the public. So my first bet would be that this particular msiinformation campaign is designed to further blur and confuse the concept of redeemable money. Which is an indirect report that this website is too successful for the continued comfort of the IRS...

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no such circulating notes shall be issued under this paragraph after the president has declared by proclamation that the emergency recognized by the president by proclamation of march 6, 1933, has terminated, unless such circulating notes are secured by deposits of bonds of the united states bearing the circulation privilege.

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Attachment 1168



Attachment 1169



This note is receivable at par in all parts of the United States, in payable in all taxes & excises and all other dues to the United States except duties on imports, and also for all salaries and other debts & demands owning by the United States to individuals, corporations & associations within the United States except interest on the public debt.

Attachment 1170