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I looked up David Wilbur Johnson and found his talks on property rights.
Interesting stuff, but it will take me a while to listen to it all.
I think that the biggest obstacle to finding facts about land records is the un-availability of the old records in many areas.
At least in my particular search I keep running into dead ends because of "records burnt up in court house fire", "maps were not kept by County at the time", "Cherokees didn't have written records", "land sales were recorded at an office which hasn't existed in over a hundred years", etc.
I appreciate the many good points you raised shikamaru.
I was looking for the original land grants for Wake County. I found them filed in a library on mclenburg county. I admit i have not read those sources. I mean looking thru those archives was like a needle in haystack. The curator would not let me in some rooms - sensitive State information - you know.
There is a book in wake county library I think called North Carolina History 1583, it shows some of the land grant information for north carolina, wake county was not formed until later, I think at one time it was part of Johnston County and it stretched all the way up to oxford.
My buddy who has a camp near North Wilkesboro has some good references to all that stuff too, I will ask him and get back with you.
No surprise. When it comes to real estate, an attorney will likely draft a contract dealing with objects/subjects in his 'reality'--as in what he is comfortable with (why expect otherwise?).Quote:
...giveaway that this contract maintains the statutory status of the contract. Title insurance is only recommended in such contracts in lieu of an abstract of title. Whenever you agree to such a contractual stipulation, you operate within the statutory realm.
If one knows who one is (i.e. the "true you" vs "legal entity") its not that difficult. If one is seeking allodial/full title--OK... First one might want to get the statutory entity that has a claim ("the seller") to vacate its claim (Warranty Deed or Warranty & Quitclaim Deed) [the Real Estate Sales Agreement outlines the terms/conditions/consideration of doing so right?). After one does that, one can still do a lis pendens and/or quiet title proceeding. If one gets the gist of this paragraph then it would be obvious that at times it might be best to go in two stages that logically ought to follow one after the other.
The "real estate purchase process" seems complicated probably because it was made complicated and the standard contract presumes not only mortgage but "residential sale/purchase" rather than private sale/purchase. Some of the chub is for the protection of a bank providing a mortgage. It might be helpful to become skilled in distinguishing just what is key in the process for protecting a purchaser vs what is for a bank vs what is for protecting a seller. An honest purchaser would likely wish to see to it that a win-win situation results.
So one can simply have a trust in the box (with an address like 1000 House Street, New York, New York 12345" and then after getting the warranty deed or the like proceeding to perfect a higher claim to than the trust using true name or some other strategy or method.
Apart from the presumption of mortgage or FANNIE MAN/FHA/HUD involvument and apart from the statutory notices (such as those about lead or environmental hazards) the reason a real estate contract or purchase process might seem or be held to be complicated might be because of lack of trust or safeguard pertinent to using an escrow company (i.e. being able to pay the seller without the seller taking your money without making out the warranty deed--there are obvious ways to do this without an escrow company).
Key factors to consider in a cash sale (and oddly it can be a challenge to find solid information on a cash sale): purchase price (that they will take U.S. currency, ping bong balls or the like), an agreement to sell, when title passes, whether there will be a down payment, how/when/where title will pass, how/when/where possession will pass, what personalty (i.e. non fixture stuff such as beds or a TV or nice rug) will be sold, maintaining evidence.
The "standard agreement" is typically crafted by attorneys and finds its 'home' in "legal land", "Residentia" or "Publica".
As typical I would direct folks that really want remedy/answers to one or more good books and one of the best law books on the topic that is over and above the pop-bookstore-fastfood-variety is:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...YL._SS500_.jpg
Understanding Modern Real Estate Transactions, Second Edition [Paperback]
Jr. Alex M. Johnson (Author) (Amazon->) http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-...6718778&sr=8-7.
To reiterate: if one is seeking private or allodial title, a two-stage process might be best: (1) using a legal entity in the State/County to 'clear/settle' the "property claim"--cash sale. Then (2) after that taking it out of the box.
As for title insurance: it might be suffice to have a seller produce their current title insurance certificate with the abstract of title they got from their title company and then add that to your evidence pile (perhaps certified copies?). Also, getting a title search, an abstract of title and subsequently a title commitment (a title company saying "Based on our title search or other information we have, we will provide you title insurance.") rather than getting title insurance can be helpful for putting the property back up for 'standard sale'. (I might have a title search done, get copies of the seller's title paperwork and get a title company to write out a title commitment but NOT get title insurance--as in creating evidence in my favor).
Clearly: take away mortgage verbiage, title companies involvement or appraisal companies expecting $$$, its possible to greatly see how to simplify a 'real estate' transaction.
P.S. It is likely that the typical sale of a "parcels" is not sale of dirt and soil but of a 'right of occupation' or something of those lines.
Related: Pedis possessio, a book titled "Conquest By Law" (land fraud, deception conspiracy exposed even to the extent of hiding court cases).Quote:
"Cherokees didn't have written records"
http://www.amazon.com/Conquest-Law-D...6720295&sr=8-1
Thank you allodial.
Are you the "allodial" from SJC?
Welcome to StSC.
That book "Conquest by Law" looks really interesting; I went ahead and ordered it from Amazon.
I'm hoping to discover a reasonably hassle-free method whereby acres of land can be owned by human beings, subject only to the true landlord, the Lord of Hosts, Creator of the Universe.
That's the reason I'm pursuing this thread.
I'm moving slowly on account of gardening and tourist season right now.
My next post will be on Tennessee's greenbelt classification.
Happy Memorial Day
:)
Between the lines, the book actually exposes that the 'conquest of North America' was a sham and exposes that the British, Spanish and French were severely limited--that the coverup of caselaw (Jackson) by the US was perhaps to protect real estate investor interests.
During the mid-nineties the property taxes still seemed affordable here,
being around $200.00 per year.
I felt like it was a fair deal, because the County has a couple of trash dump sites where one can dump landfill trash, including used motor oil and recyclable metals, during business hours 5 days a week. We generate 2 to 3 bags of landfill trash every two months which we dump there.
But then between 1999 and 2002 the tax bill increased every year even though the County tax assessor claimed that tax rates had stayed the same.
I asked him why my tax bill kept going up and he said it was due to increased assessment value and land improvements I had made, like building sheds and a cabin.
I challenged the newly assessed value and he asked me what value I would like for my land to be assessed at, and I named an amount that seemed reasonable to me at the time.
Still, the tax burden soon increased to more than I could handle as a homesteader.
Someone then told me about the "Greenbelt Law":
Attachment 509Attachment 508
When I visited the tax assessor's office to find out more about the program the office staff was so helpful that I got the uneasy feeling they were being too helpful.
As in "there's always free cheese in a mouse trap".
The Assessor himself loaned me his cell phone so I could call a licensed forester on the spot and get started on the program right away in order to get the lower tax bill that year.
After talking on the phone with the forester about drawing up a forest management plan, I still could not figure out if it was a trap or not, so I signed an application for it.
Even though I had to pay for the forest management plan, I saved money on the first tax bill under the greenbelt program, and the bills have been about a third of what they would otherwise be in all the years since then.
And that's how I became a treefarmer.
My property taxes are still under $250.00 per year, which is still a fair deal because I dump 2 to 3 bags of landfill trash every other month at the County "Convenience Center" as it is euphemistically called.
Many other Land Deed holders (I hesitate to say land owners since we must pay yearly tribute to keep "our" land) have joined the program in the last few years. I recently read an article in the local paper which talked about the "lost revenue" to the State of Tennessee due to the lower property taxes under the Greenbelt assessment.
Perhaps this is why certain revenue agents have seen themselves forced to collect revenue in other ways lately, but I'm only speculating on this and I don't know if there is a connection with lost property tax revenue.
Revenue link 2
Revenue link 3
Revenue link 4
Perhaps it is time to look at a CAFR and see what's really going on with tax revenue around here.
I frequently ask myself "Where is the wheelbarrow?"
My bank wanted to give me a choice of two nifty options to move my account to. Upon presentment, my first question was, "Okay ... where is the wheelbarrow?"
I read further. There is a $10 monthly account fee (whereas today I pay $0 in fees). I found the wheelbarrow! Consequently, I will have to decline both offers.
If interested, I will relay the wheelbarrow story as told to me from George Gordon :).
If you need more information on CAFR, look no further than Walter Burien and Rod Class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treefarmer
Walter Burien was the person who exposed CAFRs to me.
Rod Class claims the real party of interest in court cases is the IMF.
I'm confident you will find both gentlemen of great interest.
Yes, Walter Burien was one of my first exposures to CAFR too. The other one was CAFRman.
HI everyone,
I know DM from sui juris & am recognizing a few others from there.
I joined today & visited a number of threads, and decided to pop in real quick to say a big thank you for the info supplied in this thread.
I also wanted to let ya'll know I have the pdf version of "Land Surveys and Titles" by Charles Claudius Kagey (one of the recommended books). I don't see a place here to attach it (long day, could be right in front of me LOL). So if you want it please feel free to contact me (I enabled receiving messages here).
Thanks for the welcome(s) and the info on where to upload docs.
I attempted to upload the pdf but got this message: Your file of 7.28 MB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 5.00 MB for this filetype.
So I guess the best way to get it is to just contact me.
However, I went through my pc to see what else may be useful here, and am uploading "States Metes & Bounds" (a compilation of the states boundaries) which I obtained over a year ago. Enjoy!
Update: I have also uploaded "Allodial Title Via Land Patent" aka 'The Final Solution To Property Tax'.
Greetings Reigne , Welcome here .
Try http://www.myfreefilehosting.com/ . Files up to 100 MB . No sign up .No e-mail addy need be given . Just accept terms of use , add tags , upload and grab the URL to share when done . You’re all set .
Be Well , TG
Thanks for the tip TrustGuy, but I uploaded it here just prior to seeing your post :O)
http://www.4shared.com/document/FP-a...nd_titles.html
Two key court cases relevant to the book "Conquest By Law"...
Johnson v. M'Intosh - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_v._M'Intosh
and then there is this one which some suggest to have been overall covered up
Worcester v. Georgia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_v._Georgia (The limits of so-called Discovery Doctrine are underscored here.)
Talk about land grabbing!
Thanks for the link Chex.
I have a thread over here that I have not made much progress with, mainly because Senate Bill 787 has not made it to the Federal Register yet.
If you have more info on the bill's progress please share it over there. I'm very interested in stopping this monster.
I love clean water and I think that S787 would endanger clean water and peoples' access to it more than anything.
I have found this to be the ultimate asset protection.Quote:
The whole construct is INTANGIBLE. Read that Preamble to the Constitution closely ....."to assume among the Powers of the Earth a separate and equal station........ That is Law of this World. And it also agrees with God's Law. Go forth and take dominion. Those who refuse to do so will be governed by those who will.
Survey and claim dominion over said property.
That is what I have been working on for the past little while, to proclaim the right to self-determine and assume my position among the powers of the EARTH.
You would have to plot the land mass defined coordinance, and do not add the actual military post number. You can then register your declaration, the coordinance, and in the collateral section the info needed with the amount seeking for trespass damages on the UCC or for Canada the PPSA.
If you look at Canada General Surveyor Branch
http://sgb.nrcan.gc.ca/cad/lanter_e.php
You will notice EXACTLY what Canada lands are, and where the Queen in the right of Canada also assumes her Power over.
If you dig even deeper, you will find that all government offices, like courts, hospitals, and most likely cop stations are situated on Canadian soil.
When one is summoned to court, or the NAME is summoned to court, you are now actually entering Canada, prior to that, they lack the jurisdiction, thus why challenging the jurisdiction of any court is a must. You must also sever the contract associated to the body corporate, by either 2 ways, surrender the BC, or turn it in for collections, according to their acts.
You can even mention that you are NOT on Canadian soil, so anything that has not been claimed is up for grabs.
I know of someone who went further North and actually claimed soem land via a land patent, rougly around 100 acres or so, and he has built a house there and been there for like 20 years.
I still have to get the documents from another who has access to these particular documents.
P.S: Great info on this thread
Peace
PAdre
Being the poster is in Tennessee, here is a treaty/compact that you will want to acquire/research:
Southwest Ordinance of 1790
The other major ordinances concerning lands in the public domain are:
The Land Ordinance of 1784
The Land Ordinance of 1785
Northwest Ordinance of 1787
The Ordinances above were created by Congress of the Confederation, successor of the Second Continental Congress.
You may also want to know the public lands were administered by the General Land Office up to about 1946.
In 1946, the GLO was merged with the US Grazing Service to become the Bureau of Land Management, an agency of the Interior Department.
Also, you may want to acquire any treaties made with Native Americans over the territory as well.
I believe that the Treaty at Fort Stanwix plays a major foundation, being the first grant by the Iroquis Federation after the Declaration of Independence. This treaty granted all lands west of an eastern seaboard river. Interestingly it was granted by and large because of a slick attorney.
Click Here. See Page 252. Here it is expressed in the Writing on the Wall.
You can obtain a list of treaties and agreements in force from the US Department of State.
Very interesting, thank you for all the info shikamaru.
I've come to the conclusion that the system as it currently works, where the highest form of land ownership for people with BCs, DLs, SSNs, etc is in FEE SIMPLE, which is NOT allodial ownership but at the most a feudal landlord/tenant relationship, is still endorsed and tolerated by Yehovah Elohim, and as such I need to go along with it, as I am His subject.
But if and when the Roman beast power that's in charge of the USA defaults on Yehovah Elohim's law requirements completely, for example by establishing a National Sunday Law as described here, then I will probably return the WARRANTY DEED and its survey to the US and claim allodial ownership of the land itself as agent of Yehovah Elohim, based on the resulting trust which forms upon the default of the current trustee.
That's all contingent on me being around of course.
One aspect of this model - obvious to me anyway from a reading of the Book of Acts - is that Paul spent the last five years of life forming Roman custody law; the Welfare State. I do a lot of reading between the lines.
It strikes me that Felix in Tyre was dealing anew with the idea that a Roman citizen needed protective custody and protection from the Jews, the Sanhedrin, for that same citizenship. So Felix put Paul in jail for two years and as the rabbis were still determined to kill Paul on sight, remanded Paul to Rome. Some time later, while in protective custody and living on the Roman taxpayer dole Paul wrote the Book of Romans where we find Romans 13.
I have determined that this context is important while examining such issues as you say Treefarmer.
This might be helpful in that historical context.
Attachment 1269Quote:
"Now I say, [That] the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father."
Galatians 4:1-2.
On a more 'fantastical' note, in the movie Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief the story pertains to a demi-god who doesn't really know who or what he is and he is under the protection of parents and tutors who fully know who/what he is but don't outright tell him. Interestingly, Percy Jackson has special power over water and is a son of Poseidon (got 'admiralty'?).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xko1Mx5w4tg
Note the emergency weapon: a pen.
Interestingly, Herman Mellville may have seen perceived some kind of relation to the mythological Perseus and whale (leviathan?) hunting:
Also...interestingly enough the link with Perseus and Ethiopia and a King Cepheus (father) a Queen Cassiopeia.Quote:
In Hermann Melville's Moby-Dick, the narrator asserts that Perseus was the first whaleman, when he killed Cetus to save Andromeda.[27] Operatic treatments of the subject include Persée by Lully (1682) and Persée et Andromède by Ibert (1921).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb2zIR2rvRQQuote:
On the way back to Seriphos Island, Perseus stopped in the kingdom of Ethiopia. This mythical Ethiopia was ruled by King Cepheus and Queen Cassiopeia. Cassiopeia, having boasted her daughter Andromeda equal in beauty to the Nereids, drew down the vengeance of Poseidon, who sent an inundation on the land and a sea serpent, Cetus, which destroyed man and beast. The oracle of Ammon announced that no relief would be found until the king exposed his daughter Andromeda to the monster, and so she was fastened naked to a rock on the shore. Perseus slew the monster and, setting her free, claimed her in marriage.
Somehow...seems related.
Wouldn't this make Andromeda and her parents black?
Ethiopia means 'burned face'.
In most states, you have General Warranty, Special Warranty and Quitclaim deeds. Massachusetts uses different terminology; but the effect is the same. Here's what www.buyersbrokersonly has to say:
In Massachusetts there are three types of deeds that are used for the purposes of real estate transactions: warranty deeds, quitclaim deeds and release deeds. Each type of deed offers varying levels of protection and guarantees against flaws in the title of the real estate being transferred. The vast majority of property in Massachusetts is transferred via a quitclaim deed. Home buyers typically receive the same type of deed from a seller that the seller received when purchasing the property.
Warranty deeds. In Massachusetts a warranty deed generally offers the greatest amount of protection to someone who is purchasing or receiving the title to a piece of real estate (the grantee). A warranty deed includes four basic assurances to the grantee at the time of transaction. The first warranty is that the current owner and seller of the title (the grantor) does in fact own the real estate in fee simple, which assures the grantor has absolute ownership of the property. Second, a warranty deed guarantees that the property is free from any encumbrances (anything that affects or limits the title of the property such as easements or liens) except for those specifically stated in the deed. Third, the warranty deed guarantees that the grantor of the title has the legal right to sell or transfer the property to grantee. Lastly, through the deed, the grantor promises to defend against any legal claims regarding problems with the title that arose not only during the grantor’s ownership period but also prior to that period time.
Quitclaim deeds. Quitclaim deeds differ from warranty deeds in Massachusetts in that the assurances are more limited. The first assurance a quitclaim deed makes is similar to the second guarantee of the warranty deed, which states that the grantor of the title has not made any encumbrances on the property other than those specifically mentioned in the deed. Unlike a warranty deed, however, the quitclaim only covers encumbrances made by the grantor and does not cover any preexisting encumbrances such as easements or restrictions set forth by the municipality. In addition to the first assurance, the quitclaim deed guarantees that the grantor will defend against any legal claims regarding problems with the title that arose during the grantor’s ownership period but not prior to the grantor’s ownership. Essentially a quitclaim provides the same protections as a warranty deed except it limits how far back in time the grantor is liable for any problems resulting from the title.
Release deeds. The third type of deed used in Massachusetts, the release deed, offers the least amount of protection for real estate transactions. A release deed does not guarantee anything and merely serves to transfer a title or whatever right the grantor holds to a specific property. With a release deed the grantor does not need to assure that the title is valid; thus, it ultimately provides no assurances whatsoever.
Title insurance is designed to protect you and/or your mortgagee against title defects -- some which even a diligent title search may not disclose. It also protects you against loss if your conveyancing attorney is incompetent because he blows his money on wine, women, gambling and cocaine (I knew a few, years ago). The title company will pay to defend your title; and it will compensate you if you lose in court. It is NOT offered in lieu of a title abstract; indeed, when I worked for a title insurer in the 80s, we NEVER insured title without having a full 50-year title abstract, or one built on an existing title policy issued by that company.
Having said all that, I will say no more except to observe that a seller is usually required, by the terms of a purchase and sale agreement, to deliver a special warranty deed; so showing up at closing with a quitclaim deed (as the term is used in most states) or a bargain and sale deed will bring the transaction to a screeching halt, and subject you to a claim for damages in court. the only time that you will see a release or bargain and sale deed is when you are buying from a government, an executor, or at a foreclosure sale. You will almost never see a general warranty deed, since no individual is likely to want to warrant against title defects arising from before he/she owned the property. I will also note that, by not recording a deed, you risk losing your property to a subsequent purchaser who has no notice of your ownership but who records his/her deed. Recording the deed (or registering it, if your jurisdiction provides for land registration) is notice to all that YOU own the property.