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Thread: Persuasion & PSYOPS: The Elaboration Likelihood Model

  1. #11
    Anthony Joseph
    Guest
    Exhibit_D_Mem_of_Law_Bills_of_Exch.pdf

    An interesting take on the "unexplained silence" by government officials receiving instruments tendered for discharge.

  2. #12
    Again they might not on the whole know as much as you might suspect. You both are now hot on the trail.

    Quote Originally Posted by doug555 View Post
    RE: Thread: Persuasion & PSYOPS: The Elaboration Likelihood Model

    Perhaps http://iuvdeposit.wordpress.com/hjr-192/ and HJR 192 - Indorsement is Payment will help bring this issue into clearer focus...

    Then compare this to the IRS position on payments at http://www.irs.gov/Payments and see if they are violating the terms of HJR 192 by only allowing only one "kind" of coin or currency, namely liability currency.

    See my "Conditional Acceptance" of said position.

    Does this help increase the ELABORATION LIKELIHOOD for this issue?

    Shouldn't this be the KEY ISSUE for CENTRAL ROUTE PROCESSING at this point in America today with its debt ceiling and deficit crises?

    Shouldn't this be the KEY ISSUE to bring before a COMMON LAW GRAND JURY (http://iuvdeposit.wordpress.com/grand-jury) in each county?

    Doesn't compelled use of liability instruments in direct violation of HJR 192 constitute the imposition of involuntary servitude/slavery by perpetual indebtedness?

    Does't this provide probable cause to bring forth claims of harm and injury to every man and woman so compelled?

    Once one returns an indorsed bill along with a Notice and Demand and this payment is dishonored without cause?

    THINK/ELABORATE on this...

    PM me if you want to discuss this privately. We need to form a private FOCUS GROUP on this issue ASAP.
    I am surprised how many folks are so frustrated about the issue of bills of exchange, money and notes but hardly take the time to read a legal treatise on them. Not referring to anyone that posts to this forum. By comprehending bills/bills/billets of exchange, notes, instruments, bonds, contract law it all makes so much more sense.

    Re: Payment = Indorsement
    Not quite. Even a US Postal Money Order isn't technically payment until you deliver it to the payee. Before and without delivery to the payee it would be considered to be incohate. It might be helpful to know that bills of exchange and promissory notes are types of contracts. Specifically they are contracts for delivery of money only. Unlike typical surety bonds which have a condition, they are unconditional as to the obligation of the party liable on the bill or note or instrument to pay money. There is a difference between a promise to pay and an order to pay. HINT: the person writing a check drawn on a typical bank is making an order (i.e. commanding) the bank to perform (i.e. delivery of money). A check is a very small "business letter".

    On June 28, 2013, debt held by the public was approximately $11.901 trillion or about 71.43% of GDP.[6][5] Intragovernmental holdings stood at $4.837 trillion, giving a combined total public debt of $16.738 trillion.[6]
    The national debt can also be classified into marketable or non-marketable securities. As of March 2012, total marketable securities were $10.34 trillion while the non-marketable securities were $5.24 trillion.[8] Most of the marketable securities are Treasury notes, bills, and bonds held by investors and governments globally. The non-marketable securities are mainly the "government account series" owed to certain government trust funds such as the Social Security Trust Fund, which represented $2.7 trillion in 2011

    Re: Public Debt.
    Perhaps that is how much money they owe me? Or how much the public side owes the private side. It might be that the primary source of debt in for GoTUS pertains to the issuance of Treasury Bills/Notes. (P.S. Avoiding matching GDP is probably a good idea!) (P.S. It might be that the U.S. Government borrows trillions from the Social Security Administration every year.)

    Re: IRS and Lawful Money.
    The IRS takes payment in lawful money. You might find a better perspective in reading the Internal Revenue Manual (In particular: Part 21 - Customer Account Services, Chapter 1 - Accounts Management and Compliance Operations, Section 7 - Campus Support (Cont. 1) (i.e. 21.1) [in particular-> sections 21.1.7.4, 21.1.7.9, 21.1.7.9.17, 21.1.7.9.18, 21.1.7.9.21, 21.1.7.9.22)].

    ***

    You'd be surprised how much of the problem is really in that many folks could care less to make a habit of deep Central Route Processing! It might be worth noting that the public education system in the USA has been strongly dumbed down since the 1950s or so.
    Last edited by allodial; 12-27-13 at 11:54 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  3. #13
    Anthony Joseph
    Guest
    By that train of logic...

    A "bill" (negotiable instrument) drafted by a payee and presented to the 'owner' of the credit ('amount due') indicate on said bill, should be signed on the face by said owner (releasing the credit) with orders and instructions to present said instrument to the U.S. Treasury for "payment".

    Much like writing a check from a bank account; except, the credit amount is extended to the United States by the man (creditor), the credit is deposited in the account of the United States (debtor), and the "bill" (check) is sent to the payee to endorse and deposit into its account.

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  4. #14
    Or....

    maybe the voucher is a check from Verizon Florida LLC (59-0397520) that you are supposed to make payable to Verizon somehow? If I wanted it to be in lawful money I might write: "one hundred and twenty-five and nine one hundredths dollars lawful money" somewhere on the face of the bill. The idea of a bill of exchange or check being sent incomplete with it being left to the recipient to fill it out is discussed in perhaps countless court cases and legal treatises.

    Also, why release it to the United States Treasury unless you are paying your own taxes?
    Last edited by allodial; 12-28-13 at 02:15 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  5. #15
    Anthony Joseph
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    Or....

    maybe the voucher is a check from Verizon Florida LLC (59-0397520) that you are supposed to make payable to Verizon somehow? If I wanted it to be in lawful money I might write: "one hundred and twenty-five and nine one hundredths dollars lawful money" somewhere on the face of the bill. The idea of a bill of exchange or check being sent incomplete with it being left to the recipient to fill it out is discussed in perhaps countless court cases and legal treatises.

    Also, why release it to the United States Treasury unless you are paying your own taxes?
    Because the "bill" represents public debt amidst the "commercial war" stemming from the United States government bankruptcy; and, also represents the amount of credit requested for settlement which can only be released by the source of all credit - the living man who makes up part of the whole public. The U.S. Treasury is the public pool belonging to the people. The account of the United States is the property of the people and, when properly utilized, one of the people directs the drawer/payee of a "bill" to the "Drawee" (U.S. Treasury) for payment processing.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Joseph View Post
    Because the "bill" represents public debt amidst the "commercial war" stemming from the United States government bankruptcy; and, also represents the amount of credit requested for settlement which can only be released by the source of all credit - the living man who makes up part of the whole public. The U.S. Treasury is the public pool belonging to the people. The account of the United States is the property of the people and, when properly utilized, one of the people directs the drawer/payee of a "bill" to the "Drawee" (U.S. Treasury) for payment processing.
    YES !!! That is why I assert and maintain that the "bill" is truly a "credit voucher" sent to us for us to approve it by indorsing/acknowledging that one of the people did actually receive the good/service in order to legitimately reduce the national debt owed to the people by the United States by the sum certain amount stated on said "bill".

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by doug555 View Post
    YES !!! That is why I assert and maintain that the "bill" is truly a "credit voucher" sent to us for us to approve it by indorsing/acknowledging that one of the people did actually receive the good/service in order to legitimately reduce the national debt owed to the people by the United States by the sum certain amount stated on said "bill".
    If it is a "credit voucher", then what account might the credit be in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Joseph View Post
    Because the "bill" represents public debt amidst the "commercial war" stemming from the United States government bankruptcy; and, also represents the amount of credit requested for settlement which can only be released by the source of all credit - the living man who makes up part of the whole public. The U.S. Treasury is the public pool belonging to the people. The account of the United States is the property of the people and, when properly utilized, one of the people directs the drawer/payee of a "bill" to the "Drawee" (U.S. Treasury) for payment processing.
    But...what if... maybe ... Verizon has been doing all of that.. 'processing' and such inside ...

    Verizon.
    Last edited by allodial; 12-28-13 at 09:57 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  8. #18
    Anthony Joseph
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    If it is a "credit voucher", then what account might the credit be in?



    But...what if... maybe ... Verizon has been doing all of that.. 'processing' and such inside ...

    Verizon.
    You mean 'double enrichment"?

    It is a bonus when people send in the 'coupon' "with their payment". But what process is utilized if only the amount is filled out on the coupon, conventionally speaking? Can 'Verizon' negotiate that instrument on its own? Is receiving the signed check enough to also release the credit on the coupon by attaching them together?

    That would mean 'Verizon' knows how to handle such instruments in commerce and must accept the 'coupon' only as "payment in full" when tendered properly.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    If it is a "credit voucher", then what account might the credit be in?



    But...what if... maybe ... Verizon has been doing all of that.. 'processing' and such inside ...

    Verizon.
    Good questions!

    Loan Accounting gives us a clue...

    Lawful Money Full Discharge Instrument-ACCOUNTING does too...

    But we, as Beneficiaries, do not need to know that... we specify the WHAT ("I authorize payment"), the Trustee's duty is to know and do the HOW ("discharge upon payment").

    IMO, all they really need is our signature across the face of the "bill".

    But, to SHOW WE HAVE ELABORATED, this STAMP is recommended (K.I.S.S.).

    And isn't every corporation really acting as an Agent of the Treasury/Trustee anyways, as a sub-corp of the US Corp?

    So, as agents of the principal/trustee, they should know HOW to handle getting a credit from the trustee, right?

    So, let's hold them accountable, and if they fail to perform, that is outside the scope of their principal/agent agreement, and then can be held liable. This is where a CLAIM comes into play in a Court of Record, for harm to a man.

    See this Conditional Acceptance for BILL that has worked for me in the past in that regard... with several entities...

    PM me for private details...
    Last edited by doug555; 12-28-13 at 03:20 PM.

  10. #20
    Member froze25's Avatar
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    I'm having a challenge with these links Loan Accounting*gives us a clue...Lawful Money Full Discharge Instrument-ACCOUNTING*does too...

    Suggestions?

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