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Thread: Income Tax - A Legitimate Usage Fee

  1. #11
    To illustrate how some people were confused by this, consider the following correspondence between the U.S. Treasury and citizen of Cleveland. 2



    December 9, 1947

    Honorable John W. Snyder
    Sec. of the Treasury
    Washington, D.C.

    Dear Sir:

    I am sending you herewith via registered mail one ten-dollar Federal Reserve note. On this note is inscribed the following:

    "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private, and is redeemable in lawful money at the United States Treasury or at any Federal Reserve bank."

    In accordance with this statement, will you send me $10.00 in lawful money?

    Very truly yours,
    A.F. Davis

    *****

    December 11, 1947

    Mr. A.F. Davis
    12818 Colt Road
    Cleveland 1, Ohio

    Dear Mr. Davis,

    Receipt is acknowledged of your letter of December 9th with enclosure of one ten dollar Federal Reserve note.

    In compliance with your request, two five-dollar United States notes are transmitted herewith.

    Very truly yours,
    M.E. Slindee,
    Acting Treasurer

    *****

    December 23, 1947

    Mr. M.E. Slindee
    Acting Treasurer
    Treasury Department
    Fiscal Service
    Washington 25, D.C.

    Dear Sir:

    Receipt is hereby acknowledged of two $5.00 United States notes, which we interpret from your letter to be considered lawful money. Are we to infer from this that Federal Reserve notes are not lawful money?

    I am enclosing one of the $5.00 notes which you sent me. I note that it states on the face,
    "The United States of America will pay to the bearer on demand five dollars."

    I am hereby demanding five dollars.

    Very truly yours,
    A.F. Davis

    *****

    December 29, 1947

    Mr. A.F. Davis
    12818 Colt Road
    Cleveland 1, Ohio

    Dear Mr. Davis:

    Receipt is acknowledged of your letter of December 23rd, transmitting one $5 United States note with a demand for payment of five dollars.

    Your are advised that the term "lawful money" has not been defined in federal legislation. It first came to use prior to 1933 when some United States currency was not legal tender but could be held by national banking institutions as lawful money reserves. Since the act of May 12, 1933, as amended by the Joint Resolution of June 5, 1933, makes all coins and currency of the United States legal tender and the Joint Resolution of August 27, 1935, provides for the exchange of United States coin or currency for other types of such coin or currency, the term "lawful money" no longer has such special significance.

    The $5 United States note received with your letter of December 23rd is returned herewith.

    Very truly yours,
    M.E. Slindee,
    Acting Treasurer

    *****

    It is understandable how reasonable people can become confused when studying the history of the terms 'lawful money' and 'legal tender' in U.S. history. The blame for this rests with Congress who never bothered to define lawful money when it first used the term. However, the line of thinking that it is defined by the constitution as only gold or silver coin is incorrect. The constitution makes no such definition. Moreover, the restriction that States not make anything but gold or silver a legal tender does not apply to Congress, only to the States. Congress may declare anything it wishes a legal tender. And as the history above shows, it certainly has.

    http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Mone...ire/lawful.htm

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by walter View Post
    It is understandable how reasonable people can become confused when studying the history of the terms 'lawful money' and 'legal tender' in U.S. history. The blame for this rests with Congress who never bothered to define lawful money when it first used the term. However, the line of thinking that it is defined by the constitution as only gold or silver coin is incorrect. The constitution makes no such definition. Moreover, the restriction that States not make anything but gold or silver a legal tender does not apply to Congress, only to the States. Congress may declare anything it wishes a legal tender. And as the history above shows, it certainly has. http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Mone...ire/lawful.htm
    To illustrate what is it that these two corporations are trading with each other? M&M's?

  3. #13
    the term "lawful currency" no longer has such special significance.

    Interesting how the quote has become corrupted between "lawful money" and "lawful currency".

  4. #14
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkin View Post
    There is a real problem here with any type of fee. The Federal Reserve and its notes are given its status and relevance by the Congress of the United States of America. That government of the people is a trust, and the beneficiaries of the trust are the people. The Trust cannot place a fee upon the beneficiary to receive the benefits of the trust, this would be a failure of fiduciary duty and against the interests of the beneficiary. This is just as bad as a tax on the fruits of the labor of the people.



    Status is estate. Fee is a long way from charge or usury. A fee is an interest.
    Last edited by Michael Joseph; 06-16-14 at 09:46 PM.
    The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

    https://www.lawfulmoneytrust.com

    ONE man or woman can make a difference!

  5. #15
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walter View Post
    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawfulmoney.asp

    Definition of 'Lawful Money'

    Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System, including gold and silver coins, Treasury notes, and Treasury bonds. Lawful money stands in contrast to fiat money, to which the government assigns value although it has no intrinsic value of its own and is not backed by reserves. Fiat money includes legal tender such as paper money, checks, drafts and bank notes.

    Also known as "specie", which means "in actual form."

    Investopedia explains 'Lawful Money'

    Oddly enough, the dollar bills that we carry around in our wallets are not considered lawful money. The notation on the bottom of a U.S. dollar bill reads "Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private", and is issued by the U.S. Federal Reserve, not the U.S. Treasury. Legal tender can be exchanged for an equivalent amount of lawful money, but effects such as inflation can change the value of fiat money. Lawful money is said to be the most direct form of ownership, but for purposes of practicality it has little use in direct transactions between parties anymore.
    I strongly disagree with investopedia's definition here: "Lawful Money: Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System"
    "Lawful money" is the broadest view of money. In that it encompasses ALL circulating forms of money that are authorized by law. Regardless of who issues it.

    "Lawful money of the U.S." is circulating money authorized by law and emitted by the U.S. Treasury.

    You will find both of those terms sprinkled all over state and federal statutes.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I strongly disagree with investopedia's definition here: "Lawful Money: Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System"
    "Lawful money" is the broadest view of money. In that it encompasses ALL circulating forms of money that are authorized by law. Regardless of who issues it.

    "Lawful money of the U.S." is circulating money authorized by law and emitted by the U.S. Treasury.

    You will find both of those terms sprinkled all over state and federal statutes.

    I like Freed's post on Lawful Money... see it at http://1040relief.blogspot.com/p/lawful-money.html

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I strongly disagree with investopedia's definition here: "Lawful Money: Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System".
    Act of Congress refers to statutes or legislation that are formally enacted by Congress through the legislative powers granted to Congress by the U.S. Constitution. Source

    An Act of Congress is a statute enacted by the United States Congress. It can either be a Public Law, relating to the general public, or a Private Law, relating to specific institutions or individuals. Source
    How many counter trolls does it take to plug a hole in the dam before it bursts?

    Counter trolls are the start of trying to protect the interests of the printing company.

    Newsmax Monday, June 16, 2014 02:35 PM

    And now it even gets better, Mr. Mazur said Treasury was looking into how best to work with Congress and the IRS to fine-tune the system: "You can always improve." http://finance.yahoo.com/news/expatr...030800706.html

    Even more funnier is this quote, "The law is more than 40 years old, but "no one ever heard of it" before the crackdown, said Edward Kleinbard, a former chief of staff on Congress' Joint Committee on Taxation, and an expert in international tax law at the University of Southern California."

    Wait to they get a load of this law that's 81 years old.
    Last edited by Chex; 06-18-14 at 12:16 AM.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    Status is estate. Fee is a long way from charge or usury. A fee is an interest.
    A man after my own studies in English Common Law.

    Bravo ....

  9. #19
    Etymology
    Fee – A right in law to the use of land; i.e. a fief. Simple – in the unconstrained sense:

    without limit to the inheritance of heirs;
    unrestricted as to transfer of ownership.

    The English word fee ultimately goes back to the Indo-European root peku, which refers to moveable wealth, that is, cattle. The Latin word pecunia, money, also comes from this root and becomes pecuniary in English. The root appears in Modern German as Vieh, cattle, beast. [6]

    Now... how does "fee" relate to "use" or "usufruct"?

    Can we not transfer the "fee" (interest) in the NAME back to the State?

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by doug555 View Post
    Etymology
    Fee – A right in law to the use of land; i.e. a fief. Simple – in the unconstrained sense:

    without limit to the inheritance of heirs;
    unrestricted as to transfer of ownership.

    The English word fee ultimately goes back to the Indo-European root peku, which refers to moveable wealth, that is, cattle. The Latin word pecunia, money, also comes from this root and becomes pecuniary in English. The root appears in Modern German as Vieh, cattle, beast. [6]

    Now... how does "fee" relate to "use" or "usufruct"?

    Can we not transfer the "fee" (interest) in the NAME back to the State?
    Moveable wealth, in my opinion, likely included slaves in addition to cattle.

    Someone mentioned something some time ago about serfs being souls bound to the Earth with the serfs themselves as "portable Earth" .... I'll have to go hunting...

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