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Thread: Income Tax - A Legitimate Usage Fee

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkin View Post
    There is a real problem here with any type of fee. The Federal Reserve and its notes are given its status and relevance by the Congress of the United States of America. That government of the people is a trust, and the beneficiaries of the trust are the people. The Trust cannot place a fee upon the beneficiary to receive the benefits of the trust, this would be a failure of fiduciary duty and against the interests of the beneficiary. This is just as bad as a tax on the fruits of the labor of the people.



    Status is estate. Fee is a long way from charge or usury. A fee is an interest.
    Last edited by Michael Joseph; 06-16-14 at 09:46 PM.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    Status is estate. Fee is a long way from charge or usury. A fee is an interest.
    A man after my own studies in English Common Law.

    Bravo ....

  3. #3
    Etymology
    Fee – A right in law to the use of land; i.e. a fief. Simple – in the unconstrained sense:

    without limit to the inheritance of heirs;
    unrestricted as to transfer of ownership.

    The English word fee ultimately goes back to the Indo-European root peku, which refers to moveable wealth, that is, cattle. The Latin word pecunia, money, also comes from this root and becomes pecuniary in English. The root appears in Modern German as Vieh, cattle, beast. [6]

    Now... how does "fee" relate to "use" or "usufruct"?

    Can we not transfer the "fee" (interest) in the NAME back to the State?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by doug555 View Post
    Etymology
    Fee – A right in law to the use of land; i.e. a fief. Simple – in the unconstrained sense:

    without limit to the inheritance of heirs;
    unrestricted as to transfer of ownership.

    The English word fee ultimately goes back to the Indo-European root peku, which refers to moveable wealth, that is, cattle. The Latin word pecunia, money, also comes from this root and becomes pecuniary in English. The root appears in Modern German as Vieh, cattle, beast. [6]

    Now... how does "fee" relate to "use" or "usufruct"?

    Can we not transfer the "fee" (interest) in the NAME back to the State?
    Moveable wealth, in my opinion, likely included slaves in addition to cattle.

    Someone mentioned something some time ago about serfs being souls bound to the Earth with the serfs themselves as "portable Earth" .... I'll have to go hunting...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikamaru View Post
    A man after my own studies in English Common Law.

    Bravo ....
    Thank you.

    A Fee is the NATURE of an interest in an Estate. As in Fee Simple or Fee Tail, etc. It is a qualified Estate wherein Fee Simple is an Allodial Estate but not Allodial Property. An Estate naturally comes from a Titular Head typically a Throne [King] by way of Grant or letters Patent.

    Examining a Mortgage, we see that the Borrower granted the legal title to a trustee to be held in Trust until he performs his promises. Therefore the Borrower has a Right of Equity to perform upon the loan and the borrower has a right to occupy according to the terms of the agreement [Deed of Trust] but the Legal and the Equitable Titles have both been pledged as Security to a Lender. The Lender becomes beneficiary and the appointed trustee holds the legal title. Therefore the Borrower holds no title. Yet said borrower does have rights which are interests in the Estate.

    The lender does NOT have to grant occupation upon the Estate until the loan has been satisfied; however in practice the lender typically does grant physical possession of the estate but the lender retains the Right of Possession. Therefore the Estate in Fee is Secure to the Lender being held by a Trustee until performance is made by borrower.

    Usufruct is the Right to Enjoy Property vested in another. Right is in itself Property. Enjoy has specific special meaning too. Estate is an INTEREST in Property. And the nature of the Estate is called a FEE.

    The American Serfs bargain in FEE. Therefore they transfer the Estate. Or rather they transfer their interests in the Estate. So we see the Trust first then the bargain of the Fee. Grantor to Grantee for consideration, grants the Estate in Fee Simple, Tail, Farm, etc.

    A charge begs an estate to discharge the charge. Meaning the one who issues the charge must discharge the charge upon his own estate. Noticing that Property is not Estate but that Estate is an interest in Property. He who holds the Property creates the Estates in Leasehold or Freehold.

    Now the presumption is that everything one does is for ones own estate as Grantor/Trustee of the Estate in Name. Therefore one must rebut that presumption by statement in the Contract or the Trust Agreement.

    Again I say Daniel was not known by that name in Babylon. In Babylon he had a new name.

    FEE (estates) From the French, fief. A fee is an estate which may continue forever. The word fee is explained to signify that the land, or other subject of property, belongs to its owner, and is transmissible, in the case of an individual, to those whom the law appoints to succeed him, under the appellation of heirs; and in the case of corporate bodies, to those who are to take on themselves the corporate function; and from the manner in which the body is to be continued, are denominated successors. 1 Co. Litt. 1, 271, b; Wright's Ten. 147, 150; 2 Bl. Com. 104. 106; Bouv. Inst. Index h. t.

    2. Estates in fee are of several sorts, and have different denominations, according to their several natures and respective qualities. They 'may with propriety be divided into, 1. Fees simple. 2 . Fees determinable. 3. Fees qualified. 4. Fees conditional and 5. Fees tail.

    3. - 1. A fee simple is an estate in lands or tenements which, in reference to the ownership of individuals, is not restrained to any heirs in particular, nor subject to any condition or collateral determination except the laws of escheat and the canons of descent, by which it may, be qualified, abridged or defeated. In other words, an estate in fee simple absolute, is an estate limited to a person and his heirs general or indefinite. Watk. Prin. Con. 76. And the omission of the word `his' will not vitiate the estate, nor are the words "and assigns forever" necessary to create it, although usually added. Co. Litt. 7, b 9, b; 237, b Plowd. 28, b; 29, a; Bro. Abr. Estates, 4. 1 Co. Litt. 1, b; Plowd. 557 2 Bl. Com. 104, 106 Hale's Analysis, 74. The word fee simple is sometimes used by the best writers on the law as contrasted with estates tail. 1 Co. Litt. 19. In this sense, the term comprehends all other fees as well as the estate, properly, and in strict propriety of technical language, peculiarly' distinguished by this appellation.


    Note by MJ: A canon is church law. Enough said.

    4. - 2. A determinable fee is an estate which may continue forever. Plowd. 557; Shep. Touch. 97. It is a quality of this estate while it falls under this denomination, that it is liable to be determined by some act or event, expressed on its limitation, to circumscribe its continuance, or inferred by the law as bounding its extent. 2 Bl. Com. 109. Limitations to a man. and his heirs, till the marriage of such. a person shall take place; Cro. Jac. 593; 10 Vin. Abr. 133; till debts shall be paid; Fearne, 187 until a minor shall attain the age of twenty-one years 3 Atk. 74 Ambler, 204; 9 Mod. 28 10 Vin. Abr. 203. Feariae, 342; are instances of such a determinable fee.

    5. - 3. Qualified fee, is an interest given on its, first limitation, to a man and to certain of his heirs, and not to extend to all of them generally, nor confined to the issue of his body. A limitation to a man and his heirs on the part of his father, affords an example of this species of estate. Litt. 254 1 Inst. 27, a 220; 1 Prest. on Estates, 449.

    6. - . A conditional fee, in the more general acceptation of the term, is when, to the limitation of an estate a condition is annexed, which renders the estate liable to be defeated. 10 Rep. 95, b. In this application of the term, either a determinable or a qualified fee may at the same time be a conditional fee. An estate limited to a man and his heirs, to commence on the performance of a condition, is also frequently described by this appellation. Prest. on East. 476; Fearne, 9. 7. - 5. As to fee-tail, see Tail.


    ===================



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    MJ
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  6. #6
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    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawfulmoney.asp

    Definition of 'Lawful Money'

    Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System, including gold and silver coins, Treasury notes, and Treasury bonds. Lawful money stands in contrast to fiat money, to which the government assigns value although it has no intrinsic value of its own and is not backed by reserves. Fiat money includes legal tender such as paper money, checks, drafts and bank notes.

    Also known as "specie", which means "in actual form."

    Investopedia explains 'Lawful Money'

    Oddly enough, the dollar bills that we carry around in our wallets are not considered lawful money. The notation on the bottom of a U.S. dollar bill reads "Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private", and is issued by the U.S. Federal Reserve, not the U.S. Treasury. Legal tender can be exchanged for an equivalent amount of lawful money, but effects such as inflation can change the value of fiat money. Lawful money is said to be the most direct form of ownership, but for purposes of practicality it has little use in direct transactions between parties anymore.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walter View Post
    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawfulmoney.asp

    Definition of 'Lawful Money'

    Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System, including gold and silver coins, Treasury notes, and Treasury bonds. Lawful money stands in contrast to fiat money, to which the government assigns value although it has no intrinsic value of its own and is not backed by reserves. Fiat money includes legal tender such as paper money, checks, drafts and bank notes.

    Also known as "specie", which means "in actual form."

    Investopedia explains 'Lawful Money'

    Oddly enough, the dollar bills that we carry around in our wallets are not considered lawful money. The notation on the bottom of a U.S. dollar bill reads "Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private", and is issued by the U.S. Federal Reserve, not the U.S. Treasury. Legal tender can be exchanged for an equivalent amount of lawful money, but effects such as inflation can change the value of fiat money. Lawful money is said to be the most direct form of ownership, but for purposes of practicality it has little use in direct transactions between parties anymore.
    I strongly disagree with investopedia's definition here: "Lawful Money: Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System"
    "Lawful money" is the broadest view of money. In that it encompasses ALL circulating forms of money that are authorized by law. Regardless of who issues it.

    "Lawful money of the U.S." is circulating money authorized by law and emitted by the U.S. Treasury.

    You will find both of those terms sprinkled all over state and federal statutes.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I strongly disagree with investopedia's definition here: "Lawful Money: Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System"
    "Lawful money" is the broadest view of money. In that it encompasses ALL circulating forms of money that are authorized by law. Regardless of who issues it.

    "Lawful money of the U.S." is circulating money authorized by law and emitted by the U.S. Treasury.

    You will find both of those terms sprinkled all over state and federal statutes.

    I like Freed's post on Lawful Money... see it at http://1040relief.blogspot.com/p/lawful-money.html

  9. #9
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug555 View Post
    I like Freed's post on Lawful Money... see it at http://1040relief.blogspot.com/p/lawful-money.html
    Thank you Doug.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I strongly disagree with investopedia's definition here: "Lawful Money: Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System".
    Act of Congress refers to statutes or legislation that are formally enacted by Congress through the legislative powers granted to Congress by the U.S. Constitution. Source

    An Act of Congress is a statute enacted by the United States Congress. It can either be a Public Law, relating to the general public, or a Private Law, relating to specific institutions or individuals. Source
    How many counter trolls does it take to plug a hole in the dam before it bursts?

    Counter trolls are the start of trying to protect the interests of the printing company.

    Newsmax Monday, June 16, 2014 02:35 PM

    And now it even gets better, Mr. Mazur said Treasury was looking into how best to work with Congress and the IRS to fine-tune the system: "You can always improve." http://finance.yahoo.com/news/expatr...030800706.html

    Even more funnier is this quote, "The law is more than 40 years old, but "no one ever heard of it" before the crackdown, said Edward Kleinbard, a former chief of staff on Congress' Joint Committee on Taxation, and an expert in international tax law at the University of Southern California."

    Wait to they get a load of this law that's 81 years old.
    Last edited by Chex; 06-18-14 at 12:16 AM.

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