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Thread: Treasury Letter from 1984

  1. #1

    Treasury Letter from 1984

    I do not recall sharing this letter here.






    Update: The comic book from the NY Fed bank is not the attached pamphlet mentioned at the end of the 1981 Letter. I added that for explanation. - Just so you know...
    Last edited by David Merrill; 12-31-14 at 02:41 PM. Reason: explanation about comic book

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    I do not recall sharing this letter here.
    Referring to bank notes..

    "There was nothing illegal about using them, but on the other hand no law required anyone to accept them. Therefore they were not considered "lawful money." The term "lawful money" was reserved for money which the law did require people to accept, i.e., legal tender money."

    "In 1933, Federal Reserve notes were made legal tender. See 31 USC 392, which was adopted in 1965 to replace 31 USC 462, enacted in 1933. Since that time Federal Reserve notes, as well as all other United States currency and coins, have been "lawful money".



    So after reading this, I've come to the conclusion 12 USC 411 was really only applicable until 1933, when Federal reserve notes became legal tender. After that time, the FRNs became lawful money (legal tender which had to be accepted as payment). This doesn't take away the fact that they aren't money, they are credit. Notes to which excise and duties can be attached, the letter just brings a few things to light. At least if I'm reading it correctly.

  3. #3
    Notice the use of "lawful money" vs. lawful money

  4. #4
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    The local bank is my agent.
    The Federal Reserve is the government's agent.
    I ask for "money" issued directly by the government (coin or USN's)
    I demand it on my paycheck
    My agent gets together with the governments agent, The Fed delivers coin to my bank. The bank gives me coin, the check is debited from the account holders (employer) account via the clearing house system.
    The Fed now has a deficiency in coin.
    The Fed forwards credit to the Treasury, The mint delivers more coin to the Fed and the loop is closed.

    The mint creates dollar coins for approx 30cents a piece. The Fed pays for them Dollar for Dollar.
    The mint gets approx 70 cents of seignorage (profit) for each coin it delivers to the Fed.
    This profit can then pay down the debt (extinguish bonds) or be used for more gov spending.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    The local bank is my agent.
    The Federal Reserve is the government's agent.
    I ask for "money" issued directly by the government (coin or USN's)
    I demand it on my paycheck
    My agent gets together with the governments agent, The Fed delivers coin to my bank. The bank gives me coin, the check is debited from the account holders (employer) account via the clearing house system.
    The Fed now has a deficiency in coin.
    The Fed forwards credit to the Treasury, The mint delivers more coin to the Fed and the loop is closed.

    The mint creates dollar coins for approx 30cents a piece. The Fed pays for them Dollar for Dollar.
    The mint gets approx 70 cents of seignorage (profit) for each coin it delivers to the Fed.
    This profit can then pay down the debt (extinguish bonds) or be used for more gov spending.
    How simple is that? I like it.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Alan View Post
    How simple is that? I like it.
    Thank you, I have been racking my head for years trying to boil all of this stuff down to something a lay person can understand. The beauty of this is we win and the gov wins. They get the seignorage for their purposes. I get my property right in my own labor back for my use, and if you choose coin the bank can still fractionally lend on it. Everyone gets a piece of the action. It will reconnect the grounding wire to the system. With nothing but bank credit in circulation the interest creates an impossible situation. It can't ever be paid back. With an effective way to generate and distribute debt free money now that impossible system becomes possible again.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    The local bank is my agent.
    The Federal Reserve is the government's agent.
    I ask for "money" issued directly by the government (coin or USN's)
    I demand it on my paycheck
    My agent gets together with the governments agent, The Fed delivers coin to my bank. The bank gives me coin, the check is debited from the account holders (employer) account via the clearing house system.
    The Fed now has a deficiency in coin.
    The Fed forwards credit to the Treasury, The mint delivers more coin to the Fed and the loop is closed.

    The mint creates dollar coins for approx 30cents a piece. The Fed pays for them Dollar for Dollar.
    The mint gets approx 70 cents of seignorage (profit) for each coin it delivers to the Fed.
    This profit can then pay down the debt (extinguish bonds) or be used for more gov spending.
    Is this because 'public debt' (US notes and coin) carries no income tax fee for the privilege of using it?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereignty View Post
    Is this because 'public debt' (US notes and coin) carries no income tax fee for the privilege of using it?
    It is deeper than just that. One of the primary reasons for an income tax is to limit the expansion of the circulating money supply. The Fed and the banks can create credit. This credit circulates as though it is money. Congress does not directly control this new "money" issuance. In order to control the total money supply they created the income tax to pull in some of this credit from circulation. Think about it. Congress spends whatever it wants and issues more bonds to cover the difference. They really don't need the tax revenue, they have the power to create money. States and localities need taxes as they cannot create money (except gold and silver).

    The key court decision that solidified my knowledge of this is Veazie Bank v. Fenno 1869.
    https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov...75.US.533.html

    Read it again and again until you see it. Especially pay attention towards the end just before the dissenting opinion.

    They use the Springer Case (1880) to justify their income tax on us. Springer is confusing, ambiguous, and a two part decision. The Springer decision dealing with wages was backed up by Veazie that came before it (Mr. Springer must have been paid with bank credit but I have not found where this is specifically called out in the court decision, I need what was presented to the court to figure that one out). However the Springer decision on dividends and profits was later challenged in Pollock and deemed unconstitutional. This was reversed with the 16th amendment.

    Enter the Federal Reserve and we are all getting paid in bank credit......until you figure out the deception.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
    Notice the use of "lawful money" vs. lawful money
    lawful to use as a legal tender would therefore be lawful money where lawful is an adjective.

    Otherwise FRN's may be redeemed into Lawful Money on demand shows Lawful Money to be a compound noun. Any slick will try to twist the framework of the argument - like this: "It's lawful to use federal reserve notes today in our economy".

    Finding 12 USC 411 is still on the books - then FRN's can be redeemed. End of story. And if they can be redeemed into something else, then they are not that special "something else". And no amount of obfuscation by the nachash can close the eyes of the wise.


    A demand for "Lawful Money" is a claim for fair balances. An attempt to restore equity. Since the debtor is slave to the lender what of law and equity of a slave. Therefore the slave - serf is always 12(b)(6) - ed
    Last edited by Michael Joseph; 12-12-14 at 05:15 AM.
    The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

    https://www.lawfulmoneytrust.com

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