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Thread: Treasury Letter from 1984

  1. #61
    BLBereans. Are you wishing/hoping for something by making a demand or are you wishing/hoping that your demand will be done by the law?

    Keep it simple [insert Name here] redemption on all transactions Title 12 Sec. 411.

    Is Congress who has the power to define money all private credit from the FRB?

    Is that what the law of this congress is telling you there is no lawful money there's only private credit?


    Great than redeem my lawful money to Sec. 152. Lawful money reserve of associations issuing gold notes; receiving notes of other associations

    "Every association organized under section 151 of this title shall at all times keep on hand not less than 25 per centum of its outstanding circulation, in gold or silver coin of the United States; and shall receive at par in the payment of debts the gold notes of every other such association which at the time of such payment is redeeming its circulating notes in gold coin of the United States, and shall be subject to all the provisions of title 62 of the Revised Statutes: Provided, That, in applying the same to associations organized for issuing gold notes, the terms ''lawful money'' and ''lawful money of the United States'' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States; and the circulation of such associations shall not be within the limitation of circulation mentioned in title 62 of the Revised Statutes."

    Do what ever you have to do just redeem it.

    Thus, is it possible that the breakdown of law and order plaguing our land originates not in the streets, as the media would have us believe, but in our public offices?


    Bronson v Rodes, 74 US 229 defines lawful money:
    "Lawful money of the United States could only be gold and silver coin, or that which by law is made its equivalent, so as to be exchangeable therefore at par on demand, and does not include a currency which, though nominally exchangeable for coin at its face value, is not redeemable on demand."

    There are so many citations available that it seems like every citizen is required to go all the way to the Supreme Court before he or she can get a ruling in favor of gold and silver. The citizens would not have to go to this expense if they were not hoodwinked by previous administrations.
    Last edited by Chex; 12-28-14 at 05:17 PM.
    "And if I could I surely would Stand on the rock that Moses stood"

  2. #62
    redeem = to buy back
    shall = may, will; in the sense of futurity (prior to Middle English use: ought, must)

    Who "will do" the "buying back"?

    'wish' and 'hope' are not the same word as they are not spelled the same:

    example: "A parent's wishes" is not equivalent to "A parent's hopes". The former must be recognized and the latter is one's own personal aspirations for the future.

    Who is the master and who is the servant? A servant must comply with the master's wishes.

    No one can interfere with my wish to demand lawful money. The redeeming of lawful money, after my wish to make demand, is up to the ones authorized and obligated to execute redemption. Who are the ones authorized and obligated under the relating law? Is it you?

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    No one can interfere with my wish to demand lawful money. The redeeming of lawful money, after my wish to make demand, is up to the ones authorized and obligated to execute redemption. Who are the ones authorized and obligated under the relating law? Is it you?
    No argument there.

    Redeem means "to pay back all the principal and interest on a loan, debt or a mortgage." It means to recover something after paying back any sum due.

    Shall definition legal, rules and laws: indicating that something must happen or somebody is obliged to do something because of a rule or law, determination: used especially in formal speech and writing to indicate determination on the part of the speaker that something will happen or somebody will do something

    Who used after a noun or pronoun to show which group of people you are talking about

    Law of agency

    Wish See also: conatus, demand, desire, end, intent, market, predisposition, purpose, request, volition, will

    Hope verb assume, expect, feel sure, give credence to, have faith in, have no doubt, have no reservations, look forward to, place reliance in, pray for, presume, put ...

    Master. An individual who hires employees or servants to perform services and who directs the manner in which such services are performed.A court officer appointed by ...

    Servant. n. an employee of an employer, technically one who works for a master. A servant is distinguished from an"independent contractor" who operates his/her own ...
    "And if I could I surely would Stand on the rock that Moses stood"

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    If one googles, "mobley m milam us asst attorney" one may find some interesting pages to view regarding MILAM's past employment. It seems that it would have been the ultimate incompetent oversight for MILAM to not mention to his attorney that Title 12 USC 152 clearly defined what "lawful money" as it relates to Title 12:

    Sec. 152. Lawful money reserve of associations issuing gold notes;
    receiving notes of other associations


    "Every association organized under section 151 of this title shall
    at all times keep on hand not less than 25 per centum of its
    outstanding circulation, in gold or silver coin of the United
    States; and shall receive at par in the payment of debts the gold
    notes of every other such association which at the time of such
    payment is redeeming its circulating notes in gold coin of the
    United States, and shall be subject to all the provisions of title
    62 of the Revised Statutes: Provided, That, in applying the same to
    associations organized for issuing gold notes, the terms ''lawful
    money'' and ''lawful money of the United States'' shall be
    construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States
    ; and the
    circulation of such associations shall not be within the limitation
    of circulation mentioned in title 62 of the Revised Statutes."


    This may have been repealed in 1994, however, in 1974 it was still in full force. Why was this citation never brought up in the MILAM case? Apparantly, in 1974, MILAM could redeem his note in gold or silver coin. Was a former US Attorney and his legal team that absent minded to not cite §152 when the section relied upon for bringing the case (§411) exists in the same Title of US Code? Makes one wonder about this case and what exactly the purpose of pursuing it was. Precedent anyone???

    If you had read my post, you would have seen this part, "then FRNs can be deemed "lawful" money - just NOT in the context of the Title 12 citation (411)" so your comment in response, "rumor that government has declared or defined Federal Reserve notes "lawful money" is greatly exaggerated" is misguided except as it relates to §411.

    'lawful money' can be a single phrase noun or a an adjective describing a noun, it all depends upon the one evoking it and how clearly one articulates one's intent.
    Fascinating!

  5. #65
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    Perhaps some might forget the National Banking Act and the Federal Reserve Act are two separate things. Source:Laws of the United States Relating to Loans and the Currency, Coinage and Banking (1886).


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    Last edited by allodial; 12-29-14 at 06:33 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post

    Bronson v Rodes, 74 US 229 defines lawful money:
    "Lawful money of the United States could only be gold and silver coin, or that which by law is made its equivalent, so as to be exchangeable therefore at par on demand, and does not include a currency which, though nominally exchangeable for coin at its face value, is not redeemable on demand."
    What about lawful money of "The United States" or "UNITED STATES"? Its own board of directors might decide to use a certain paper currency within its corporate boundary. Craft as it were might prosper thru policy.

    This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. The whole planet is run as a business. And we no longer see men and women but at the common law but rather we see employees governed by U.C.C. and policies of the corporation.

    Eventually little boxes will be bought up and become big boxes. And then the board of directors of the single big box will appoint a president to rule them all.

    legal tender is lawful to USE but may not be lawful money. Lawful money is always legal tender.

    Shalom,
    MJ
    The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

    https://www.lawfulmoneytrust.com

    ONE man or woman can make a difference!

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    What about lawful money of "The United States" or "UNITED STATES"? Its own board of directors might decide to use a certain paper currency within its corporate boundary. Craft as it were might prosper thru policy.

    This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. The whole planet is run as a business. And we no longer see men and women but at the common law but rather we see employees governed by U.C.C. and policies of the corporation.

    Eventually little boxes will be bought up and become big boxes. And then the board of directors of the single big box will appoint a president to rule them all.

    legal tender is lawful to USE but may not be lawful money. Lawful money is always legal tender.

    Shalom,
    MJ
    The religion of Mammon.


    The basic etymology is fear and want:


    doubt
    debt
    death

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    ...The whole planet is run as a business. And we no longer see men and women but at the common law but rather we see employees governed by U.C.C. and policies of the corporation....
    Perhaps there is a "world government" that is but the combined Territorial Government of all U.N. Members? A treaty entered into by a low contracting party would only bind it territorially but not 'organically'. The sovereign members of a confederation would remain unaffected by the treaties of the confederation though those treaties might be binding upon the territories thereof--unless the sovereign members ratified such treaties. For example Agend21 and other UN Treaties to knowledge might only apply within the territories of the United States. In 'international law' parties to treaties are expected to know and be aware of the internal mechanisms of the other parties to a treaty.

    This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
    What if "the land" is the territory of the United States?

    P.S. Low contracting party seems to be for some reason resonant with 'legal positivism'.
    Last edited by allodial; 12-30-14 at 12:16 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  9. #69
    JohnnyCash
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    Perhaps some might forget the National Banking Act and the Federal Reserve Act are two separate things.
    Yes, but remember federal excise tax was due on the amount of national-bank notes issued; payable by the issuer (Veazie Bank v. Fenno). And Congress intended Federal Reserve Notes to supplant National Bank Notes, so that they (FRNs) would become the banking system's exclusive paper currency—.
    "They shall be issued and redeemed under the same terms and conditions as national-bank notes..." http://www.scribd.com/embeds/2047859...?start_page=23

    Therefore, it follows that federal excise tax is due on the issuance of FRNs - payable by the issuer - the endorser on the backside of the paycheck. Oops!

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCash View Post
    Yes, but remember federal excise tax was due on the amount of national-bank notes issued; payable by the issuer (Veazie Bank v. Fenno). And Congress intended Federal Reserve Notes to supplant National Bank Notes, so that they (FRNs) would become the banking system's exclusive paper currency—.
    "They shall be issued and redeemed under the same terms and conditions as national-bank notes..." http://www.scribd.com/embeds/2047859...?start_page=23

    Therefore, it follows that federal excise tax is due on the issuance of FRNs - payable by the issuer - the endorser on the backside of the paycheck. Oops!
    Perhaps every endorsement is perhaps a 'new issue'? Speculation: And perhaps the national bank notes are now called 'bank drafts' or cashier's checks or are simply intertwined with the FRN? And perhaps the tax has something to do with seigniorage?

    P.S. Bank notes are also called 'bills of credit'.

    Bills of credit may be defined to be paper issued and intended to circulate through the community for its ordinary purposes, as money redeemable at a future day. 4 Pet. U. S. R. 410; 1 Kent, Com. 407 4 Dall. R. xxiii.; Story, Const. Sec. 1362 to 1364 1 Scam. R. 87, 526.
    Redeemable for what? For lawful money?
    Last edited by allodial; 12-30-14 at 09:00 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

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