Remedy - lawful money solution

[NONOFED]

I haven't looked into this IRS return thing, or rather, haven't found good standing for it yet, though if it has merit I would like to integrate it with coin, personally. If there is some actual consequence by endorsing a check on the back with 12 U.S. Code § 411 I would use it but I haven't got the "aha!" idea of it. A check transfers money from one place to another, typically from a person to person. Generally my understanding is that endorsement on back of check with signature is to prevent fraud, sets terms of deposit and is most applicable when check is used at different institutions. By putting 12 U.S. Code § 411 on a check and demanding lawful money is like saying I want FRNs which is lawful money and doesn't convert it physically or virtually within a digital account. I take that statute at face value, to redeem for treasury backed currency. FRN is obligation of US Government to Federal Reserve you cannot word this away, coin is obligation of US Government, essentially credit and on good faith. I'm supposed to believe by placing on a check or stamping 12 U.S. Code § 411 on a FRN reverses the liability of that note' existence to the treasury and myself, says who and where? Do you really think the NO AUDIT FED is going to even recognize that? I see using 12 U.S. Code § 411 on a check or note is trying to do what coin already is and does; comes from US treasury, is not produced by FED, reverses government liability to FED. Otherwise seems like its a lazy way of not using coin, trying to have large denomination paper money and trying to keep money in a bank account, but these benefits are not available because the FED is in power by demand "use" of its currency. Why keep money in the thieves house? Desist! I looked around a bit on this forum, I don't get it, most others don't either. All I get is stop participating for the FED, redeem FED notes for treasury coin, don't keep your money in the bank, the end. Use bank to coin a check and redeem FRN for Coin. $1 coins are as good as it gets...for now.

[Chex]

I haven't looked into this IRS return thing, or rather, haven't found good standing for it yet, though if it has merit I would like to integrate it with coin, personally.

Start here to integrate coins.

Coins
The Board's role in coin operations is more limited
than its role in cash operations,
as the United States Mint is the issuing authority for coins.

Reserve Banks distribute new and circulated coin to depository institutions to meet the public's demand, and take as deposits coin that exceeds the public's needs. http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12626.htm

06/20/14 Tom Jurkowsky, director of the U.S. Mint's Office of Corporate Communications, said via email June 18 that

"the statutory authority for us to produce gold Kennedy half dollars is 31 U.S.C. § 5112(i)(4)(C)."

The United States Code citation reads: "(C) The Secretary may continue to mint and issue coins in accordance with the specifications contained in paragraphs (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection (a) and paragraph

(1)(A) of this subsection at the same time the Secretary is minting and issuing other bullion and proof gold coins under this subsection in accordance with such program procedures and coin specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time."

31 U.S.C. § 5112 can be found here.

[NONOFED]

By using Federal Reserve Notes you are devaluing the USD. Coins used to be made of more valuable metals but since the money is devalued so much they replace it with cheaper metals, for instance all coins would become zinc. However if you abandon Federal Reserve Notes and use Coins you will make the dollar more valuable, reverse national debt, and will eventually lead to more valuable metals consisting in the coins, your essentially reversing the process that has been playing out for the past 100 years.

Banks started by storing your valuable coins in the bank, they would give you a note to redeem for your coins, they then figured they can issue many slips and then eventually they didn't have enough coins to pay you and this would constitute a bank run and bankruptcy. Today they still do the same thing, they give Federal Reserve Notes which are to be redeemed in coin. Take your notes to the bank and redeem them for what is yours, stop passing around I Owe You notes. Go to a bank with few tens of thousands, maybe even a few thousand, and redeem for coins, this would capsize many banks branches; they can't support it.

Rally people together and demand what is yours. Make a statement to these banks, publicize it.

Do not keep your money in the bank except within a safe box or in your own safe box at home. Stop using Fed note IOUs and get paid what is yours in coin and use those on a daily basis.

[Brian]

By using Federal Reserve Notes you are devaluing the USD. Coins used to be made of more valuable metals but since the money is devalued so much they replace it with cheaper metals, for instance all coins would become zinc. However if you abandon Federal Reserve Notes and use Coins you will make the dollar more valuable, reverse national debt, and will eventually lead to more valuable metals consisting in the coins, your essentially reversing the process that has been playing out for the past 100 years.

Banks started by storing your valuable coins in the bank, they would give you a note to redeem for your coins, they then figured they can issue many slips and then eventually they didn't have enough coins to pay you and this would constitute a bank run and bankruptcy. Today they still do the same thing, they give Federal Reserve Notes which are to be redeemed in coin. Take your notes to the bank and redeem them for what is yours, stop passing around I Owe You notes. A few tens of thousands, if that, would capsize many banks branches.

Do not keep your money in the bank except within a safe box or in your own safe box at home. Stop using Fed note IOUs and get paid what is yours in coin and use those on a daily basis.

Gather people together and demand what is yours. Make a statement to these banks.

Yes! Exactly! We cannot go back to gold and silver unless we #1 Do what NOFED is saying and walk back the debt in slow and methodical way like he suggests. Just like how we lost gold and silver in coins over 100 years. Gold being the first casualty and silver the next. It took 20 years to kill off gold coin and another 30 years to kill off silver coins. It will take a similar time to reverse the process. OR we can #2: default on the debt and revalue everything and reintroduce gold and silver coin and start the process again as we will have learned nothing! The bankers will play the same game plan again. and again...and again....

[NONOFED]

FRNs are promissory notes to pay you in US COINs.
In a promissory note there are only two parties – the maker (debtor) and the payee (creditor).

The liability of the maker of a promissory note is primary and absolute.
Banks stored your gold and gave you a slip, there were many slips, not enough gold, and bank runs.
There used to be Gold coins, there is no gold coins, since the banks stole it, and your silver, you now get coins containing mostly copper.
Since that is now the case, take your FRN notes to the bank and see how many coins you can get before the bank runs out of "coins". I bet a bank run.
There used to be the law of redemption on the notes but no longer yet is still law.

Look familiar, 12 U.S. Code § 411 and
Federal Reserve Act Section 16
1. Issuance of Federal Reserve notes; nature of obligation; where redeemable Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are hereby authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

So they have you using their promissory notes as money! Why are you using them?

Its like a mining operation, slaves do the work unknowingly; you bring it gold, then silver, then copper. then eventually your are no longer needed. Wicked.

[shikamaru]

FRNs are promissory notes to pay you in US COINs.

Denomination differs from redemption, obligation, or warranty.
FRNs can be denominated in US coin.

In a promissory note there are only two parties – the maker (debtor) and the payee (creditor).
The liability of the maker of a promissory note is primary and absolute.

Do note in the word promissory is the word promise.
A promissory note is a promise.

The parties can be the promisor and promissee.

[Brian]

"So they have you using their promissory notes as money! Why are you using them?" EXACTLY!

This is the basis for the 1st income tax of 3 now in effect. The other two being the Corporate income tax and the 16th amendment income tax.

Veazie Bank v. Fenno, 75 U.S. 533 (1869)
"It cannot be doubted that under the Constitution the power to provide a circulation of coin is given to Congress. And it is settled by the uniform practice of the government and by repeated decisions, that Congress may constitutionally authorize the emission of bills of credit. ... Having thus, in the exercise of undisputed constitutional powers, undertaken to provide a currency for the whole country, it cannot be questioned that Congress may, constitutionally, secure the benefit of it to the people by appropriate legislation. To this end, Congress has denied the quality of legal tender to foreign coins, and has provided by law against the imposition of counterfeit and base coin on the community. To the same end, Congress may restrain (TAX), by suitable enactments, the circulation as money of any notes not issued under its own authority. Without this power, indeed, its attempts to secure a sound and uniform currency for the country must be futile."

The "Springer" income tax finds its authority from the Veazie case. Part of the Springer case came back as "Pollock" which then was sealed off by the 16th amendment. "Springer" was a two part case. Part of it was fine initially. The part dealing with what the Veazie Bank case settled. The other part dealing with income severed (derived) from any property (any source whatever) (think "rent seeking") was decided by "Pollock" and then reversed by the 16th amendment.

The Corporate income tax is on doing business in a via the incorporation privilege.

The primary income tax (Springer) on money not issued directly by congress also has "special" income taxes added onto it. Those add on taxes are Social Security, Medicare, and now Obamacare. These all hinge on the use of money substitutes not directly issued by congress. Hence they can be regulated (taxed) by congress. This is how they gain access to our lives and micromanage it by forcing us to buy shit we don't want (healthcare)......next up will be the affordable housing act or the affordable food act....etc..etc...

[itsmymoney]

FRNs are promissory notes to pay you in US COINs.
In a promissory note there are only two parties – the maker (debtor) and the payee (creditor).

The liability of the maker of a promissory note is primary and absolute.
Banks stored your gold and gave you a slip, there were many slips, not enough gold, and bank runs.
There used to be Gold coins, there is no gold coins, since the banks stole it, and your silver, you now get coins containing mostly copper.
Since that is now the case, take your FRN notes to the bank and see how many coins you can get before the bank runs out of "coins". I bet a bank run.
There used to be the law of redemption on the notes but no longer yet is still law.

Look familiar, 12 U.S. Code § 411 and
Federal Reserve Act Section 16
1. Issuance of Federal Reserve notes; nature of obligation; where redeemable Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are hereby authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

So they have you using their promissory notes as money! Why are you using them?

Its like a mining operation, slaves do the work unknowingly; you bring it gold, then silver, then copper. then eventually your are no longer needed. Wicked.

So if you disagree with the current non-coinage methods that have been successful here (receiving partial or full refunds based on those methods), then you are implying that the IRS is ignoring these methods at the moment, but could very well pull a 'Pete Hendrickson' mandate to come down on these filings at some future time. As I have said in the past, it would not surprise me if that ever occurred. However, if that were true, I would think it would have started to occur already (IRS/Treasury push-back). Otherwise maybe the volume of RILM is so low that it is not a concern to them at this time. But again, why wouldn't they start hammering these filings regardless? If there is money to steal then they surely will do so. It is a bit of a mystery at this point. Perhaps the current methods are acceptable to the IRS in the overall intent and true spirit of "lawful money", as we know it to be intended (U.S. Notes/coinage).

Something else to ponder relative to your notation, "Look familiar..." i.e. the pseduo-USC-411-language you reference on the actual bill ("THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER...AND IS REDEEMABLE IN LAWFUL MONEY OR AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK")...

So the note is legal tender and not 'money' until redeemed. Thus we are given a choice according to that note's language, no?

"REDEEMABLE IN LAWFUL MONEY" ...

"AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY" (their/your 'money' - no further obligation on the redemption directly from the Treasury)

OR

"AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK" (their 'money' - an obligation on the person redeeming their instrument of private credit; to
pay a 'fee' ('income' tax) for the privilege of using their 'money' via that instrument and thru the Treasury as 'middle man').

So yes, you have an argument/point that "lawful money" could be interpreted as 'FRS money', but we DO have a choice in how we redeem (see above). So far, it appears that the IRS/Treasury are honoring our check/deposit-slip redemption language relative to choice number one above (directly/solely with/from the Treasury). Why would one need to be specific about stating the 12 USC 411 redemption language on the instruments? BECAUSE the default redemption choice is thru the FRS, the notes bearing their stated instrument (FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE) at the top of the bill. Thus, it is the OTHER choice we are making with that specific language ("AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY"). If the law was written to mean redeeming your pay literally "AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY" in D.C, then perhaps we should all open accounts at the Treasury if that is even possible. However, I highly doubt that a restriction so severe was the intent when the law was written, to avoid using FRS money.

This is how I am seeing it. Just my observations.

P.S. addendum: this discussion is why I am contemplating using language such as: "Lawful money demanded solely with the U.S. Treasury per 12 USC 411 & full discharge demanded for all transactions per 95a(2)". I'm not sure I can be more specific as to the entity-choices designated in the USC 411 language (corresponding to the choices on the FRN's themselves) without adding "do not endorse private credit of the FRS".

[Chex]

FRNs are promissory notes to pay you in US COINs.
In a promissory note there are only two parties – the maker (debtor) and the payee (creditor).

The liability of the maker of a promissory note is primary and absolute.
Banks stored your gold and gave you a slip, there were many slips, not enough gold, and bank runs.
There used to be Gold coins, there is no gold coins, since the banks stole it, and your silver, you now get coins containing mostly copper.
Since that is now the case, take your FRN notes to the bank and see how many coins you can get before the bank runs out of "coins". I bet a bank run.
There used to be the law of redemption on the notes but no longer yet is still law.

Look familiar, 12 U.S. Code § 411 and
Federal Reserve Act Section 16
1. Issuance of Federal Reserve notes; nature of obligation; where redeemable Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are hereby authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

So they have you using their promissory notes as money! Why are you using them?

Its like a mining operation, slaves do the work unknowingly; you bring it gold, then silver, then copper. then eventually your are no longer needed. Wicked.

Ernest Seyd = "I went to America in the winter of 1872-73, authorized to secure, if I could, the passage of a bill demonetizing silver. It was in the interest of those I represented - the governors of the Bank of England - to have it done. By 1873, gold coins were the only form of coin money."

International Bankers = "On Sept 1st, 1894, we will not renew our loans under any consideration. On Sept 1st we will demand our money. We will foreclose and become mortgagees in possession. We can take two-thirds of the farms west of the Mississippi, and thousands of them east of the Mississippi as well, at our own price... Then the farmers will become tenants as in England..."

Federal Reserve Headquarters in Wash. D.C.
It is not Federal and it has no reserves. The name is a deception designed to give this private bank the appearance of a Government Agency, in fact it is run solely to gain private profit for its select stock holders.

Slickest moves in financial history
On 23rd December 1913 the house of representatives had past the Federal Reserve Act, but it was still having difficulty getting it out of the senate. Most members of congress had gone home for the holidays, but unfortunately the senate had not adjourned, so they were technically still in session. There were only three members still present. Lead by Congressmen Nelson Aldrich (Grandfather of the Rockefellers) On a unanimous consent voice vote the 1913 Federal Reserve Act was passed. No objection was made, because there was no one there to object.

[allodial]

The principles of law and equity underlying the non-taxability with respect to non-endorsement are sound across the spectrum. The principles underlying taxation in most every 'country' in the 'world' is that trees/capital goes untaxed...fruit is taxed. Principal => untaxed. Interest -> taxed.

On a related note: when you draw a check on a bank, its the fact that they accept the check that causes you to owe them ==that is why===> they take money out of your account. The idea of the check being a charge to your private account is misleading, the check is a charge on the bank the drawer (customer) makes --when they honor the check the drawer is indebted to the bank which in turns taps the drawer's account to balance things out. That is why it would be possible to overdraw an account. The honoring of the check isn't against the account but against the bank. The bank charges your account to satisfy your obligation to the bank.

On 'personal checks', the bank's logo tends to be in the 'drawee' position. But on payroll checks, things might be a bit different.

Related:
Re: Notes of Debt Are Not Income
Notes of Debt Are Not Income