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Thread: DL was NOT provided or used as ID

  1. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    Isn't that altering someone else's document?
    Here's the thing though: what about when people reserve rights by altering (crossing out, rewriting) DL documents at the DMV -- aren't those docs their property too?

  2. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie View Post
    Here's the thing though: aren't those docs their property too?
    This is a question I asked way back. “If the property is in your name than whose is it”?

    If the property is not in your name then whose is it.

    If lawful money is in your name than whose is it?
    Last edited by Chex; 02-19-14 at 01:46 PM.

  3. #193

    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    This is a question I asked way back. “If the property is in your name than whose is it”?

    If the property is not in your name then whose is it.

    If lawful money is in your name than whose is it?
    Ahhhh, I missed that! Thanks!

  4. #194
    As stated in Senate Doc #43, page 9, second paragraph, April 1933: “The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called “ownership” is only by virtue of Government, ie, law, amounting to mere user; and use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State.”

    If you believe you own that property you refer to as a Name, please provide evidence of such ownership. Saying I AM JOHN DOE in YOUR COURT or in public does not make that Name your property. If property is owned/held by legal title, then you would be able to produce the original title to the property Name AS OWNER. If you can not, and all you can obtain is a "certified copy", signed by an authorized official who has some fictional title, it appears to me that the owner or legal title holder sure does not want you to have it. I wonder why?????

    I would suggest you all look up what the "legal community" considers to be a belligerent act, along with the bankruptcy of the US. If you decide that legal community DOES NOT function in YOUR world, as you are a sovereign or other self-important title claiming your "rights" or you "own this or that", boy are you going to be in for a real lesson. Sure TPTB do not want their fraud exposed and you "may get lucky" - over small stuff but when push comes to shove, we will see. For those who are familiar with Paul Andrew Mitchell, word is that he has been indicted for obstruction of justice, etc.

  5. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    Isn't that altering someone else's document?
    No since the whole license is an agreement that you have created. The physical license card belongs to the "STATE OF..." under the terms of the agreement but the agreement itself is the signor's. A signor may alter an agreement at any time and the alterations go into effect immediately upon NOTICE. Notice = knowledge of the communication.
    If one desired they could place 'See attached" on the signature line and then carry the attachment with them.
    Another effective method is to form a separate NOTICE, record the notice in a public forum, issue a certified copy to the DMV and then carrying one with you.

  6. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie View Post
    Here's the thing though: what about when people reserve rights by altering (crossing out, rewriting) DL documents at the DMV -- aren't those docs their property too?
    Not until you hand the document back to them with any desired edits.

  7. #197
    Make copies, take pics.

    The birth certificate afaik = State property. The name on the birth certificate = State property.

    “The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called “ownership” is only by virtue of Government, ie, law, amounting to mere user; and use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State.”
    Afaik, private property (de jure) is not "in this State".
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  8. #198
    Anthony Joseph
    Guest
    something called "State" may maintain the position that it "owns" property; yet, said "State" cannot make claim to property (requires vocal chords)

    “The ultimate ownership of all property..."

    all that tells me is that ownership and property are two different things

    non-living entities can hold "titles" (dead paper) in ownership; only man can make a claim (living voice) to property

  9. #199

    "Individual" - what is the Federal definition of "individual"?

    Quote Originally Posted by salsero View Post
    As stated in Senate Doc #43, page 9, second paragraph, April 1933: “The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called “ownership” is only by virtue of Government, ie, law, amounting to mere user; and use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State.”

    If you believe you own that property you refer to as a Name, please provide evidence of such ownership. Saying I AM JOHN DOE in YOUR COURT or in public does not make that Name your property. If property is owned/held by legal title, then you would be able to produce the original title to the property Name AS OWNER. If you can not, and all you can obtain is a "certified copy", signed by an authorized official who has some fictional title, it appears to me that the owner or legal title holder sure does not want you to have it. I wonder why?????

    I would suggest you all look up what the "legal community" considers to be a belligerent act, along with the bankruptcy of the US. If you decide that legal community DOES NOT function in YOUR world, as you are a sovereign or other self-important title claiming your "rights" or you "own this or that", boy are you going to be in for a real lesson. Sure TPTB do not want their fraud exposed and you "may get lucky" - over small stuff but when push comes to shove, we will see. For those who are familiar with Paul Andrew Mitchell, word is that he has been indicted for obstruction of justice, etc.

    I understand the concept that the so-called "federal gov't" tried to propagate in the above Senate Doc #43 but it rests on the definition of the word "individual." Paul Andrew Mitchell's work explains with cited material why the "federal gov't's" use of the term "individual" circles back to the definition of small "c" "citizen"...meaning "federal citizen." For those interested in Mitchell's work simply google "supreme law dot org."

    The above post also mentions that Paul Andrew Mitchell has been "indicted for obstruction of justice." Where is this written? I would like to know how this information was gathered.

    Thanks,

    Sam

  10. #200
    I have my own account to add to this ongoing saga.

    I got pulled over yesterday for speeding. Officer approached and waited while I gathered my documents. I noticed my licence had JUST expired last month on the 31st but I presented it anyway and said very loudly and clearly.
    " I am not presenting this as identification, only to show competence", he replied "but this is your identifica...." to which I smiled at him and basically said whatever with a shrug of my shoulders. He says ok in a muted tone and walks back to run me through the system. 20 minutes later a patrol sergeant shows up and I say to myself "whichever way this goes this should get interesting". I see him poked into his patrolmans side window and then sticking his head out kinda giving me a mean look in the rearview to which I YAWN. PS walks over and says in a very polite tone "excuse me sir did you know your licence has expired" I replied "I JUST saw that now when I presented it". "Ok thank you" and walks away. 20 minutes later the patrolman walks back over with all my papers and nothing else. "I apologize for taking up your time and inconveniencing you sir" "we are having a computer glitch at the moment so were gonna let you go" " my sergeant is not happy about it". I smile and say thank you and actually share a laugh with the patrolman about safe driving and off I GO.

    question: can I keep driving with an expired licence and just keep presenting it as proof of competence?
    Last edited by AllanNR; 06-15-15 at 05:00 PM.

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