can you prove your identity?

[Michael Joseph]

Grab a current Quote (Ctrl-C) of my post and Replace it (Ctrl-V) into your Post. You were working on it while I was still editing. Sometimes I will put a red Still Editing... at the end but today I neglected to.

The Boundaries and Survey are seldom thought about in Western Christianity. I am speaking of the fundamental difference in laws. The Israelites/Jews have the Ten Commandments (you neglected to mention Exodus, specifically the Laws of Moses - Chapters 20-24:7) and everybody else has the Seven Noachide Laws.

If you or your twin show up as Michael Joseph - only one of you wears that TITLE in honor - that determines metaphysically what your TITLE is - brother, or child of Noah. Presuming that I identify myself with Israel of the Bible - which I do not. [Serving God in his Bloodthirsty State at the Golden Calf Orgy is rather cumbersome, even through the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb, Jesus CHRIST.] Think about it, before the Income Tax a man had to slaughter his prize-perfect bull and soforth; sounds a lot like an income tax to me!



Regards,

David Merrill.

You know this is not the place here as we are discussing Identity; but Yehovah did away with Animal Sacrifice long before Yehoshuah. I know where you are getting the Everyone Else doctrine from Acts yet if you read on they all came to agreement at the Tribunal in Jerusalem that they would preach Noahide Laws but that the people naturally at each Sabbath would hear Moses.

ah heck, I will do it Hosea 6:6. Love and Mercy is the Sacrifice that Yehovah desires. A strict reading of Isaiah 6:4 will also show that Yehovah did away with Animal Blood Sacrifice.

The Income Tax today "as you put it" - is your Mercy and Love - Charity to your fellow man.

----

Yet back to identity; while the Fake Claiming the Title is undeserving of it - how can one know unless one is a Watchman and has been Watching for a long time? The latter question goes very deep.

Therefore relationships are built on trust - your action - honor. To me what you call yourself is inconsequential. I know after a while if I can trust you or not. A watchman watches.

What if I start calling myself Michael son of Joseph. That is true as well. A name has nothing to do with identifying a man. For tomorrow if I completely change my whole outward appearance and start calling myself Andrew Michael how would you know it's me? Therefore the shortcut in LEGAL LAND - legal fictions - persona.

Nothing new under the Sun -

Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man.

Yet men desire to place constructs neatly in a box so that they can label the box - it makes things easier. If the Label shares the same Rights well then things get a whole lot easier. Especially for the ones in the eaves.

[martin earl]

My Identity is self-evident, as are my rights, endowed upon me by my creator, they need no witness, no certification, no record or agreement.

If I put my mark on something, I can attest to it, as can the witness to the event. That mark might be special for just that event.

Now, if we are to go strictly by the law, I should dip the great toe of my right foot into the blood of the sacrificial animal and seal the covenant record. That is where the "Thumb print in red ink" comes from.

I am is self-evident, Word bonded and blood atoned.

[Michael Joseph]

My Identity is self-evident, as are my rights, endowed upon me by my creator, they need no witness, no certification, no record or agreement.

If I put my mark on something, I can attest to it, as can the witness to the event. That mark might be special for just that event.

Now, if we are to go strictly by the law, I should dip the great toe of my right foot into the blood of the sacrificial animal and seal the covenant record. That is where the "Thumb print in red ink" comes from.

I am is self-evident, Word bonded and blood atoned.

who are you again? your assertion that you can be identified as self evident is absurd. There is nothing about you that cannot be changed. Fact is what if you were seized and your memories erased. There is nothing physical, mental or spiritual that does not change about you. Nothing. So my or your ability to identify ourselves in not inherent within ourselves. Others must trust we are who we say we are. Oh by the way martin earl, whats your last name? ROFLMAO.....

I suppose you have never entered upon any commercial endeavors martin earl; else if you had you might appreciate that those who engage you might want to know it is you they are dealing with. I am still waiting for that Last name, martin earl.....I am still laughing.

[martin earl]

who are you again? your assertion that you can be identified as self evident is absurd. There is nothing about you that cannot be changed. Fact is what if you were seized and your memories erased. There is nothing physical, mental or spiritual that does not change about you. Nothing. So my or your ability to identify ourselves in not inherent within ourselves. Others must trust we are who we say we are. Oh by the way martin earl, whats your last name? ROFLMAO.....

I suppose you have never entered upon any commercial endeavors martin earl; else if you had you might appreciate that those who engage you might want to know it is you they are dealing with. I am still waiting for that Last name, martin earl.....I am still laughing.

Those who know me can identify me and they do not need a name to it. That which makes me me is eternal and transcends this physical illusion, the I AM that is me was before, now and forever.

Who am I? If you are asking me to revel my New Name, I cannot do that here, not the time nor the place, nor have the proper signs and tokens been presented to qualify for such a revelation.

I have and do enter into commercial endeavors under many names, even the dreaded Trust name when there is an explicit agreement between the STATE and I as to what I accept and agree to in doing so.

Others trust in me has nothing to do with a name, but with my actions toward and with them. Should I violate that trust, no name is needed, as my accusers can stand witness that I AM who they trusted.

I have no "self" to identify, as I am self-evident, even if my memories were erased, I would still exist, changed for my experiences here, but still me.

[Michael Joseph]

well you have effectively ducked the entire argument. Tell me how those who know you can identify you? What is it about you that is so identifiable that other men lack?

Even the State cannot identify you. The State identifies its Person. Thank you for making my point.

Identity is a HUGE problem. Thus the Persona.

Who you are or who I am is of no consequence to this argument of what about me allows others to know with a surety it is me tomorrow. There is nothing about me that identifies me tomorrow.

Names change so a name cannot identify a man. If I met you today martin earl and we scheduled a time to meet tomorrow what about you would allow me to know it is you that I have met? There is nothing about you that strictly speaking can identify you tomorrow.

You ask why in the heck is he pushing this...BECAUSE the State created persons are used to mend the Impossibility of Identifying a man. The Person is easily identifiable - SSN, DL, DOB, etc. And if you even look remotely like the picture on the DL well then that's good enough. So then what if my identity is stolen - ROFLMAO.....my identity can never be proven - only the Person.

I do not believe i ever entered the option of Law to establish the identity of a man. How absurd. Law has no bearing in regard to the Physical Eyes (five senses) and the Spiritual Eyes.

Whether or not someone trusts in you has no bearing on your identity. I could care less about the State; the State has nothing to do with the Physical or Spiritual Identity of a man.

For those who think they can identify themselves, I open the door and put forth the challenge. Whether or not you deem it important, I could care less. The argument is that you cannot identify yourself. I'll wait.....

[Michael Joseph]

Just found this on the web regarding Identity and its importance

I like this one too

[martin earl]

well you have effectively ducked the entire argument. Tell me how those who know you can identify you? What is it about you that is so identifiable that other men lack?

Even the State cannot identify you. The State identifies its Person. Thank you for making my point.

Identity is a HUGE problem. Thus the Persona.

Who you are or who I am is of no consequence to this argument of what about me allows others to know with a surety it is me tomorrow. There is nothing about me that identifies me tomorrow.

Names change so a name cannot identify a man. If I met you today martin earl and we scheduled a time to meet tomorrow what about you would allow me to know it is you that I have met? There is nothing about you that strictly speaking can identify you tomorrow.

You ask why in the heck is he pushing this...BECAUSE the State created persons are used to mend the Impossibility of Identifying a man. The Person is easily identifiable - SSN, DL, DOB, etc. And if you even look remotely like the picture on the DL well then that's good enough. So then what if my identity is stolen - ROFLMAO.....my identity can never be proven - only the Person.

I do not believe i ever entered the option of Law to establish the identity of a man. How absurd. Law has no bearing in regard to the Physical Eyes (five senses) and the Spiritual Eyes.

Whether or not someone trusts in you has no bearing on your identity. I could care less about the State; the State has nothing to do with the Physical or Spiritual Identity of a man.

For those who think they can identify themselves, I open the door and put forth the challenge. Whether or not you deem it important, I could care less. The argument is that you cannot identify yourself. I'll wait.....

I have not dodged the argument, should YOU harm me, say, break my arm in a fight, without a mask or disguise, or if I could hold you at the scene until others arrived, I could IDENTIFY you as the man who broke my arm.

That is called witness. I can point my finger at you, in court and say "that is the man who broke my arm". Now, that is not to say you are guilty of a crime, just simple witness. Other witnesses could put you at the fight, and with enough eye witnesses, you could be convicted of a crime.

No name, no Date of Birth no PERSON needed. That is the way the law is supposed to work. You and I agree that nothing physical can identify me. I for one do not believe DNA is any indicator of a BODY since, I cannot testify if the DNA came from me, therefore, I cannot say if or who it DID come from. Does DNA even exist? I have never seen DNA and cannot be a witness to it.

I do not have to accept any "expert" opinion on the matter of DNA either, that would be bearing false witness, against me or another.

I have stood in front of the STATE High Priests and demanded they IDENTIFY me (remember, I used to be a police officer for these same people) they did not even try to tie me to the STATE Person. Not even a peep from my own neighbors (I was standing next to a former Sgt. of mine from the police department, he did not utter a word).

In fact, not even my "parents" can testify to my date of birth, place of birth or true name, because, reportedly, I was at least 3 days old when they became my "parents". I know of no man or woman on this earth that can identify ME.

That means is up to my Creator, and/or ME. I can identify me, it I am self-evident. HOW I chose to identify me is up to me.

However, you and I are in agreement, nobody else has the power to identify me, nor can I prove who I am, I fail to see why I would need to.

The Master recognizes His own, and I will recognize the Master, I hope. I cannot testify to the Fact that my Master even exists, since I have not seen Him with my physical eyes, thus faith is those things hoped for but NOT seen.

Testimony is those things seen and known, witness is not proof, only witness, but the law states in the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses, the truth shall be established. That is the law for our physical realm.

I agree with you, no body can prove its own identity, that does not mean there is not a body.

[Michael Joseph]

Very good. Now that we agree it is impossible for one to prove identity we can go to numerous places in Yehovah's Word - I like this one in particular:

Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Luk 11:53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:

Luk 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.


I will not argue that there are heuristics that a living soul may employ to "cut corners" in regard to identity; I have friends and I can listen to their speech patterns, they look approximately the same [maybe some weight fluctuations], they have approximately the same intellectual styles so I can feel pretty safe that my friend is who I think he is. But in reality i cannot know for certain so I must Trust my friend.

And the foregoing is an implied trust. The Society is not as forgiving when it comes to heuristic approximations; as such, "devices" are created that are not exactly true, they are fictions, yet, these devices require the Trust of a living soul in order to come into existence.

For instance, I went into a DMV office about three months back and asked the head clerk what would it take to get a State issued ID. His response to me was that I would need to show trust in the State, by way of a Driver's License, a Social Security Number, someone who is already Trusting in the State to "vouch" for me, perhaps a high-school picture, or proof of a Residential Address". I have none of those so I thanked him for his time and left.

Society Identifies the Person - not the living soul. The Living Soul shows his Trust by his words and his actions. Therefore the Persona belongs to State [societal trust]. See that a survey was taken on a child at birth and a person was created...just sitting there and waiting for a living soul to USE it.

The Living Soul has always been without the State.

Two trusts:

Jeremiah 17:5 - in man

Jeremiah 17:7 - in the Ever Living Self Existing One.

thank you for your testimony regarding your experiences. I just re-read your post.....Exactly! ONLY you are with the ability to say who you are. Why? Because there is NOTHING about you that I can use to identify you tomorrow - me too.

Thus the ancient saying my Word is my Bond. Why because I stand before the Ever Living - I lie not. Let Yehovah judge righteously between me and thee. But then one says, i know not your God. A choice is ever present for man to express his Trust. It is really quite simple.

The Truth is simple yes?

[David Merrill]

The simplest title I have on you is Michael Joseph; in natural law.

[by implication]

I am that, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, ... I am'