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Thread: The Year

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by BLBereans View Post
    No.

    Neither would I believe that a man will literally move a physical mountain like Mount Everest. The point is to discern when and where allegory is used and when it is not.

    Michael Joseph sees allegory EVERYWHERE where you seem to see it rarely if ever. I fall somewhere in the middle, depending upon each instance - a case by case basis.

    I certainly do see allegory - the 7 Annual Holydays are allegories and TYPES of what will LITERALLY occur.

    I accept allegories that are based on past and future LITERAL EVENTS... that help explain their true significance to us.

    Allegories based on IMAGINATION AND SPECULATION are to be "cast down".

  2. #22
    I would tend to view the Red Sea crossing as a physical event that would serve as a model, type or shadow of things thereafter. As for moving mountains, moving obstacles is likely what moving mountains is a type of. Moving physical mountains is not precluded.

    Re: Britain and America
    Establishing a church among the British Isles group of islands doesn't make the local culture Christian or believers. However, looking into the history of the Saxon (related to a word having to do with swords or daggers) invasion of those Isles and of their conversion and the conversion of the Picts might be worthwhile.
    Last edited by allodial; 04-26-15 at 12:27 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  3. #23
    How does 1 + 3 = 5?
    It doesn't.

    1 + 3 = 4, which makes Day 5 the day on which the resurrection must occur to fulfill the "3 days and 3 nights" prophecy made by Jesus.

    The Feast of Passover is 7 days in duration:

    Day 1 = Passover (Holyday 1) Jesus was placed in the tomb just as the sun set that ended Day 1, during which He died at 3pm.
    Day 2 = 1st day Jesus in tomb*
    Day 3 = 2nd day Jesus in tomb*
    Day 4 = 3rd day Jesus in tomb*
    Day 5 = Jesus rose from dead (this 'day' begins at the sunset that ends Day 4)
    Day 6 = Jesus alive
    Day 7 = Last Day of Unleavened Bread (Holyday 2)

    * = one of the days of the "3 days and 3 nights" Jesus declared he would be in the grave as proof that He was the Messiah upon His resurrection


    I recommend listening to this message (90 minutes) to see how Passover is Holyday 1.

    As the speaker says at the end "How could it NOT be!"
    Last edited by doug555; 04-26-15 at 01:57 AM.

  4. #24
    Are you sure that Passover is a single "holy day"? Passover is a period that lasts for 7 (to 8) days. The first and last days of Passover are "days off"--but that is not all to Passover.

    The resurrection occurred during the Passover period. The fifth day of Passover is referred to as the third of the intermediate days of Pesach (chol hamoed). All of those days are part of the Passover period the first and last days aren't Passover alone. One might do well to consider the Passover in parallel with the creation days of Genesis. The 4th day is when the light appeared.

    That important events will occur during or on feast days makes sense. But throwing out the significance of major events like the resurrection or the ascension and conferring of the kingdom is in conflict with sound scripture.

    Re: 1+ 3 != 5
    Wouldn't the fourth day of Passover/Pesach be the day the resurrection occurred according to your statements? Didn't the cutting of the first fruits and counting of the Omer commence (and the waiving of the sheaf be done) on that day?
    Last edited by allodial; 04-26-15 at 02:56 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    Are you sure that Passover is a single "holy day"? Passover is a period that lasts for 7 (to 8) days. The first and last days of Passover are "days off"--but that is not all to Passover.

    The resurrection occurred during the Passover period. The fifth day of Passover is referred to as the third of the intermediate days of Pesach (chol hamoed). All of those days are part of the Passover period the first and last days aren't Passover alone. One might do well to consider the Passover in parallel with the creation days of Genesis. The 4th day is when the light appeared.

    That important events will occur during or on feast days makes sense. But throwing out the significance of major events like the resurrection or the ascension and conferring of the kingdom is in conflict with sound scripture.

    Re: 1+ 3 != 5
    Wouldn't the fourth day of Passover/Pesach be the day the resurrection occurred according to your statements?

    The Feast of Passover/Unleavened Bread is only 7 days.

    Ex 12:15-16
    15 For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel. 16 On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat--that is all you may do.

    Days 2-4 = 3 days Jesus in tomb, so Day 4 could NOT be the Resurrection day.

    I am not throwing out the Resurrection. I am saying that it happening on Day 5 does NOT fulfill Holyday 2 which, in type, occurs on Day 7 of "Passover period".

    The "ascension" does NOT "confer the kingdom". The Apostles were commissioned during that "ascension" event to be witnesses that Holyday 1 was fulfilled.

    Acts 1:8)
    8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

    That was their focus.

    In fact, they were purposely denied knowledge of when the kingdom would literally be restored.

    Acts 1:6-7
    6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

    However, by implication, it is for us today to know the "times and epochs"... mainly because we are the generation to fulfill the Spring Harvest Phase of the Kingdom of God on earth.

    And how can we know that we are being given this knowledge today?

    My witness to that is all that I have posted on https://pentecostnation.wordpress.com/

    This is to be our focus TODAY, on Holydays 2 & 3, just as their focus in Acts 1 was to be on Holyday 1, testifying that Jesus fulfilled the Passover on that first day of the Feast of Passover in 30 A.D.

    This Petition should be our focus today -- on the last day (Day 7) of the Feast of Passover/Unleavened Bread.
    Last edited by doug555; 04-26-15 at 03:53 AM.

  6. #26
    It is widely held that the resurrection occurred on the 3rd or 4th day of Passover. The events would correspond to the year 30 A.D. Nisan 17 (30 AD) would have been the third day of Passover and on the cusp of the Sabbath. When the women visited the tomb they were told by angels that Jesus had risen (early Sunday morning it is supposed). On the same Nissan 17 the Pharisees and the Sadducees were counting the Omer and the Pharisees would have cut the first fruits.

    With a crucifixion of Nisan 14 (30 AD) that is about 3 days.
    Last edited by allodial; 04-26-15 at 04:44 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    It is widely held that the resurrection occurred on the 4th day of Passover.
    Thanks for mentioning this! That makes perfect sense, since the mainstream Jews kept their "Passover" one day late in Jesus time -- on the 15th!

    Notice the "Sabbath" mentioned in Lk 23:54 is the one that the occurs on the day AFTER that Passover that the Messiah and the apostles kept the evening of the 14th, the Exodus Passover.

    Mt 26:17-20, 26-28; Ex 12:17-18
    17 Now on ["at the onset of" -OJB] the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?" 18 And He said, "Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, 'The Teacher says, "My time is near; I am to keep the Passover at your house with My disciples."' " 19 The disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover. 20 Now when evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples.

    26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

    17 'You shall also observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt; therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as a permanent ordinance. 18 'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening.
    The day of the 14th was what the mainstream Jews at that time were observing as a "preparation day" for an Annual Sabbath.

    Lk 23:54
    54 It was the preparation day, and the [annual] Sabbath was about to begin.

    This "Sabbath" in verse 54 had to be an Annual Holyday Sabbath, because the weekly Sabbath occurred 2 days later, in verse 56.

    Lk 23:56
    56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the [weekly] Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

    The women prepared spices on the weekly Friday preparation day.

    Then, they rested on the weekly Sabbath.

    Then, on Sunday, they came to the tomb to apply these spices to the body of Jesus.

    Mt 28:1
    1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

    So the Jews were keeping the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, one day late -- the day AFTER Jesus died.

    I believe they were one day late because of the way Lev 23:6 is worded. I can see how it could be misconstrued.

    Lev 23:6
    6 'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.

    But Ex 12:18 clearly shows that unleavened bread was to be be eaten from the 14th until the 21st day at evening.

    Notice that this word "until" in Ex 12:18 is the same word used in Ex 12:6.

    14 15 16 17 18 19 20 = 7 days of unleavened bread

    If the 15th is the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, then there would be only 6 days of unleavened bread.

    This same mistake is being made today by both Christians and Jews.

    The mistake of not recognizing the 14th as the First Day of Unleavened Bread - Holyday 1, the Passover - is the critical blindspot that is keeping all of mankind in the dark about the entire Holyday MASTER PLAN that the Creator is following to transform us into God-beings!

    All of mankind mistakenly killed the Messiah because they were not focused on Holyday 1 - the Passover.

    They were focused on Holyday 4 - and still are to this day!

    We all need to correct that mistake NOW - and get with the program - the MASTER PLAN - by focusing on the very next Holyday in that PLAN - Holyday 2!

    Those worshipping the "Christ" who was raised on the 4th Day of this "Jewish" Passover period are worshipping a false Christ!

    My Messiah died on the 14th - NOT the 15th!

    My Messiah died on a Wednesday at 3pm on the 14th.

    He was in the tomb all Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

    At the sunset that ended that Saturday, He rose from the dead.

    When Mary came to the tomb on Sunday BEFORE sunrise He was not there.

    Jn 20:1
    1 Now on the first day of the week [Sunday] Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

    Beware! Those worshiping a "Christ" that died on "Good Friday" and rose on "Sunday Morning" at Sunrise are worshiping a false Christ!

    Research the "Quartodeciman Controversy" to see how important this issue was in the early church eras, and to confirm that "It is widely held that the resurrection occurred on the 4th day of Passover."

    If Satan can get us off just one day, it appears that he can blind us to the entire MASTER PLAN of Our Eternal Father in heaven.

    Well, Holyday 2 has been design to break that "trance" and blindness!

    For those of us who can see now, it is our job to Petition Our Father daily until that day comes!
    Last edited by doug555; 04-26-15 at 06:18 AM.

  8. #28
    The Sadducees and Jesus and his followers had Passover feast on the Nissan 14. Likely the Essenes had Passover on that day too. The Pharisees had theirs on Nissan 15. The crucifixion could have been on Wednesday or Thursday. The Saducees killed their Pesach lambs on Nissan 13.

    3rd or 4th day because of variances.

    There is evidence of Passover starting Wednesday, April 5, 30AD (Nisan 14). Molad of Tishri being Sat. September 16 with that day being pronounced the Day of Trumpets. The timing from September 16 with no recorded delays would put Passover 30AD and the crucifixion of Jesus on first Wednesday of April allowing for a resurrection on the following of Saturday. There are many "justifications" for meddling with the truth.

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    Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
    They waited until after the Sabbath. This does not mean that the resurrection occurred on Sunday. It could have occurred on the previous day. It really takes a 'fine eye' and a sense for intentionally introduced errors in support of one errant ideology or another.

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    Related:
    Last edited by allodial; 04-26-15 at 07:49 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    The Sadducees and Jesus and his followers had Passover feast on the Nissan 14. Likely the Essenes had Passover on that day too. The Pharisees had theirs on Nissan 15. The crucifixion would likely have been a Thursday afternoon from what I have gathered.
    Then how do you get a full "3 days and 3 nights" in the tomb from Thursday afternoon to the tomb being empty BEFORE sunrise on Sunday (Jn 20:1)?

    Jn 20:1
    1 Now on the first day of the week [Sunday] Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.
    Last edited by doug555; 04-26-15 at 06:10 AM.

  10. #30
    Wednesday or Thursday
    This is about an event that occurred over two thousand years ago not five days ago and with heaps of attempts to modify, manipulate and explain away the facts. Not to mention leap years and calendar modifications. The discrepancy and variance of the crucifixion being Wednesday or Thursday or even Tuesday or Wednesday is because the Hebrew calendar is evening to evening rather than midnight to midnight and computer programs that "shifted" Passover start days without good reason. Evening to evening days on the Hebrew calendar corresponds to halfs of two separate days in the Roman/Gregorian calendar. See above. (Also where one might say 3790 another puts 3791.)

    Clearly, having the importance of precision at heart, see above. Fortunately you now have lots of reference materials from which to glean insight. So getting to the nitty gritty, we could conceivably narrow down to a Wednesday crucifixion rather than a Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion with the prospect of a Saturday resurrection.

    Then how do you get a full "3 days and 3 nights" in the tomb from Thursday afternoon to the tomb being empty BEFORE sunrise on Sunday (Jn 20:1)?
    See above its Wednesday or Thursday. Its not really about "how I" do this or that. Its about facts which I am unaware of inventing. Keep in mind that nowhere along this thread am I selling books or promoting my own theories. A better question might be how do you come to the conclusion of the resurrection not having been on Saturday or not on the Sabbath? Afterall, you seem to be asserting that the resurrection not being on a Sabbath being key to your viewpoints then seem to want to question me for seeming to agree with you.

    Now on the first day of the week [Sunday] Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.
    Perhaps see above. There is a Wednesday Passover camp and a Thursday Passover camp. Thursday seems to be based on software-introduced errors. So basing on September 16 Day of Trumpets without postponements: Wednesday seems to be it.
    Last edited by allodial; 04-26-15 at 07:47 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

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