Adam, Satan, and the King of Tyre: The Interpretation of Ezekiel 28:11-19 in Late Ant

[Michael Joseph]

allodial,

I just re-read your post and I was shocked concerning the statement that I believe that others are "more stupid" or "not as smart"....That is in no way what I propound. I write out of Love. If I don't care for anyone I would just say to hell with my brethren. I have put my back to the plow now for years in constant writings to those who mostly hate me. And to that end I say "who cares".

I cannot tell you how many times a week I get a "thank you" email from those timid souls who are resonating with an inner truth. We are all so wonderfully made. We are each a universe within. Thusly, I find that those who would maintain that I am beating them down in degradation are really just manifesting an emotional response in regard to esteem. Which is to say the ideals being discussed beat against their Linus Blanket of security. Or the illusion thereof. And thus they "feel" threatened. Especially if those ideas threaten the Ego's position concerning Heaven and Hell. We all want that security of Heaven now don't we?

I would however maintain that we are all awesome - even those who do not belong to my tribe. Whatever that means. Each and everyone of us can overcome - and when one wakes up to the truth that is cleverly hidden in all Myth's and Scriptures all around the world one will see that Jesus SHOWED the Way. Jesus did not say - Worship Me. Thusly I am tasked to Walk in The Way.

One's intellect matters not one bit to me. For the King of the Carnal Mind is just that "intellect". Of which is of course gained by experience and interaction with nature by and thru the Nervous Systems. A man parched of water will not be helped one bit by a cool drink of water. For the next day he is parched again and the body of flesh which he occupies will one day go back to dust. Thusly the hamster continues - once more around the wheel at Gilgal.

Make it a great day,
Michael Joseph

[xparte]

Adverse religious beliefs fine [ i only requite one] Christ a teaching or lessons. In this spirit a Man can introduce us to a spiritual life, and that we return Christs message in stone to any man that thinks about his role the wisest s circles are NOT the largest circles Manage that wheel again and again as we fight our early battles to reform ourselves and get our life into order.

It’s all about stones and circles. Michael Joseph a Man his significance in any subscription too content affecting ones spiritual life. Allodial a title his applicable significance in any linguistic subscription too content ones spiritual life. No rockcandy gets spit out for its chewed out never get JUDE out or in when biblical cannon goes off spirit there be no topic Cranial Sunday just playin a part very best

[allodial]

Adverse religious beliefs fine [ i only requite one] Christ a teaching or lessons. In this spirit a Man can introduce us to a spiritual life, and that we return Christs message in stone to any man that thinks about his role the wisest s circles are NOT the largest circles Manage that wheel again and again as we fight our early battles to reform ourselves and get our life into order.

It’s all about stones and circles. Michael Joseph a Man his significance in any subscription too content affecting ones spiritual life. Allodial a title his applicable significance in any linguistic subscription too content ones spiritual life. No rockcandy gets spit out for its chewed out never get JUDE out or in when biblical cannon goes off spirit there be no topic Cranial Sunday just playin a part very best

Actually either way you type it in, its a "User Name" the name or title given to a role (persona) in the legal context of forum and not the name of a man. Many clearly know that my name isn't "Allodial" and being a forum for discussion of things pertinent to law, legalities, customs or regulations the obvious need not be said. The allodial actually refers to the right to allodial title and its relation to lawful money in acquiring that lawful title and the relationship to true name. Its a term to encourage a richer and deeper study of law.

The forum first and foremost to do with law, particular laws of the United States and surrounds. The religious aspect crosses over at times, so there are sections for that. [Of course question begs: if we always have 900 different topics interjected into a discussion how can we ever get to the truth of ANYTHING?]

I just re-read your post and I was shocked concerning the statement that I believe that others are "more stupid" or "not as smart"....That is in no way what I propound. I write out of Love. If I don't care for anyone I would just say to hell with my brethren. I have put my back to the plow now for years in constant writings to those who mostly hate me. And to that end I say "who cares".

For what its worth what was typed is: "Quite a few have expressed that it seems that you re ever trying to tell everyone how stupid they might be in your eyes--and even regardless of the fact what you type or hold may be clearly flawed. I would hope that like others you are open to correction."

Quite succinctly, AFAIK it wasn't actually a statement that you believe anything it was a revelation about how others have expressed their take on your approach or how they might feel. If that doesn't matter to you then fair enough, right?

In the other thread, someone recently expressed their "amazement" (?) that you gave such a direct and short answer for once, that's the kind of thing that is being referred to. When someone is enthused about a good thing, I'd be one to avoid interrupting that buzz. However, I believe the thing is people have trouble wading through heaps of unrelated material to get answers--they express that they have hard enough of a time as it is. Love I figure would have one being mindful of that.

I cannot tell you how many times a week I get a "thank you" email from those timid souls who are resonating with an inner truth. We are all so wonderfully made. We are each a universe within. Thusly, I find that those who would maintain that I am beating them down in degradation are really just manifesting an emotional response in regard to esteem. Which is to say the ideals being discussed beat against their Linus Blanket of security. Or the illusion thereof. And thus they "feel" threatened. Especially if those ideas threaten the Ego's position concerning Heaven and Hell. We all want that security of Heaven now don't we?

I can believe that you receive thanks from those that receive answers from you concerning the questions that they ask you. Overall, I prefer to believe others to be well-meaning which has not always proven to be the case. Interestingly enough, you speak of a "Linus Blanket of Security" which from the discussions you evidence an aversion to yours being questioned, discussed or touched. I ask questions but hardly get any answers but lots of "hey this is what I think about {unrelated topic} (except in this case its somewhat related).

I would however maintain that we are all awesome - even those who do not belong to my tribe. Whatever that means. Each and everyone of us can overcome - and when one wakes up to the truth that is cleverly hidden in all Myth's and Scriptures all around the world one will see that Jesus SHOWED the Way. Jesus did not say - Worship Me. Thusly I am tasked to Walk in The Way.

One's intellect matters not one bit to me. For the King of the Carnal Mind is just that "intellect". Of which is of course gained by experience and interaction with nature by and thru the Nervous Systems. A man parched of water will not be helped one bit by a cool drink of water. For the next day he is parched again and the body of flesh which he occupies will one day go back to dust. Thusly the hamster continues - once more around the wheel at Gilgal.

But yet still you seem to avoid any direct discussion of the prospect that you might at least in part have a flawed approach with respect to topics or subject matter concerning which you seem to assert or to claim expertise? Are you inadvertently admitting to being a fountain that doesn't help the parched man one bit? Would that be a dust or water fountain?

While Jesus may have avoided encouraging worship (i.e. service) in the manner you speak, I am unaware of him encouraging misleading people with clearly errant or wildly speculative interpretations. Of course, your freedom is not being questioned at all. If you love others, do you encourage them to embrace what you know to be error? Or perhaps you believe there to be no such thing as error that everyone has their own "inner universe" to make up their own rules, maybe like a "do what thou wilt but harm no one" kind of approach?

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

How can the same people who attack Paul as being a false apostle turn around and found entire 'mystical doctrines' on the writings of Paul? If Paul = false apostle then wouldn't 1 Timothy be out with the trash? Hmmmm.




Its like with watching a movie (whether its based on a true story or not): we all see that A happened then B happened then C happened but someone comes along and tries to tell us that B didn't happen and how much of an expert they are on the topic. Its not even necessarily about "religion" although the easy escape would be to point a finger and accuse me accusing me of being "dogmatic" lol. In the movie-land sense, if the girl in a scene was wearing a blue shirt and stabbed a zombie in the neck and someone comes along says it was a guy in a white gown and he gave the zombie a lollipop, its about honesty, perception, etc. We're just supposed to believe the guy that contradicts everything that makes sense.

Naw, Eve! Dat's not wut God said..he said...

Haven't we heard that before...somewhere? If you teach someone that 1 Timothy 2:14 means Adam and Eve were aspects of someone's conscious so that is how allegedly Adam was dragged along with Eve. So the question is asked: whose conscious where they part of? No answer. What are you sources so we can get people schooled and learned?

Anyways, context, it is clearly made plain that Adam rebelled or disobeyed. If Adam was not subjected to the Serpent's talk, how could he have been deceived? How is it that Adam and Eve have been part of the same conscious of some mysterious being but yet Adam didn't hear what the Serpent said but Eve did? Turning to Genesis it shows that He wasn't present when Eve was talking with the Serpent and that he ate what the woman/Eve gave to him though he was present when instruction was given from God. So yes, Adam was not deceived he rebelled or disobeyed.

So I ask then whose conscious was it they were a part of? No answer.

Furthermore, in the book of Ezekiel and Isaiah the 'trees' and tree symbology is described in more detail. There were trees in the Garden that were capable of envy. Clearly, its a spiritual book but not spiritual in the sense of willy-nilly nothing.

So, if you knew you were in error on even one point, would you go back to your student and tell him humbly that you may have made an error and explain how so, or would you ignore it? That's to do with character and affinity for truth and honesty--what's it to do with dogma?

Are deeper truths hiding in the texts? Sure. Knowing that women tend toward being more passive and subconscious and being more susceptible to suggestion or emotional manipulation that would tell is that an adversary would tend to appeal to emotional or subconscious influences or tactics (isn't that what is done in the media everyday?). You don't even need to join Adam and Eve into a single being to get the gist of that. The mass market psychologists set out to leverage women and children to gain control over men to this very day. But yet we see a famous example in an ancient text and we're just "supposed" to roll over and believe "Dat not happen. Dat not real. Dat just 'magination. Believe wut I say. Look into my eye."

[allodial]

So how does someone react to the truth when teaching what is clearly error without replying: "The trouble is that version with the girl stabbing the zombie in the neck wasn't the original version which has been lost but I know all about it though I can't produce a copy just believe what I says." How can a group even analyze even a novel if everyone goes around talking about a different version or starts standing in the place of the author (or in the place of God) saying "Nah that's not what he meant because he was my cousin's hairdresser for ten years and I know better." The authors of confusion might find truth to be excessively burdensome.

So the guys that stand there in agreement hey look we all saw the scene with the girl stabbing the zombie in the neck what are you smoking get the reply: "Get with the times. This is a new age. Don't be so dogmatic and square. Be hip."

There's this thing called "Brushing a camel aside with a straw".

Adverse religious beliefs fine [ i only requite one] Christ a teaching or lessons.

whats truth got to do with dogma or religion
if the ship's clerk doctors the log
and if spin doctors decide what's a log and what isn't
and that truth is whatever it is to whoever is behind it
how you get to the bottom of what happened
or do you sink to the bottom
if dey keep blowin dat fog
and hidin' da Captain's Log

don't ask
too deep
they tell the sheep "i forget what was your question
so you should forget it too"
while thinkin' "how shall I distract you"
pointing tha finger
"look there's yet another naked woman-doctrine
on the face of a magazine
so get dizzy gettin' busy with her gaze
(woah woah, wait --
is that a man with a jar of Vaseline?)
no no thats just a ... dream
given in to the haze and let
the daze of days take over
from those eyes that fascinate
cos the Serpent wants a dinner date with you
isn't that wonderful news
that all along the Serpent's goal has been
to serve man ..to serve you..
(on a plate)
its true

allodial and allodial title
words that spell too much truth
about what was lost but now found
but the snake in the grass still
wants to serve you up the same New old raw deal
and so blows words of venom over the eyes and mind like fog with full hate
instead of Joseph Pilates...
its ... Pilate .. he's
the one who wondered how could there be
any rule without darkness great

Like St. Patrick drove the Serpents out of Ireland
We made these fields allodial
allodial persists to insist
on integrity in the word, book, journal or log or factum
and in fact and in action
dat's the kind o' thang that frustrates
the draco-vampire faction
like when allodial says:
"Behold, a vampire is runnin' a blood drive actin'
like anything but hungry for some adverse snackin'
for as long as it takes for the snake to get that dinner date
hopin' the victim won't find until a wee bit too late
cos layin' hogtied on the plate
served by the Serpent as the feast for a beast
maybe ain't the ideal place to discriminate"
who would disagree?
for, the serpent is wise about how he get his prize
even if has to bait the hook and dismiss the Book with Titanic lies"

by grace may truth shine and reveals the hidden passion (for your ass son)
let Wisdom break forth
cos her intervention invokes the right reaction
causing you to step up and step on
with full traction with your soles
leavin' the Serpent's head bruised
and feastin' on kicked up dust
rather than feasting upon your souls.

[allodial]

Regardless of MJ's interest or lack of interest in discussion, we can move forward. Let's get to the heart of this matter pertaining to 1 Timothy 2:14. This is taken from a work by Thomas Troward (a fascinating work indeed it is!):

Very interesting and alluring. That is the kind of thing MJ is referring. But apparently he isn't quite enthused about revealing the kinds of sources of information he might rely upon. The following points and questions get to the heart of the error:

1. A reading of Genesis makes it clear that Adam was not deceived since he was not present to hear the words of the Serpent. He is told that he listened to Eve rather than to God. In other words, disobedience or rebellion was his offense--he was in charge (given dominion) you see it was his dominion rather than Eve's --they don't want you to realize something about yourself. Other parts of the Bible make it clear that Adam did 'offend' or perpetrate an 'offense' of some kind. Eve was deceived but Adam was not--Adam could not have been deceived if he wasn't there for the Serpent's discourse.
2. If Adam was a mere body incapable of being deceived how could he have been put down as having made offense? Furthermore, why would God give a pile of chalk and carbon instruction?
3. 'dam' means blood 'a' means chief/head adam rightly points to 'chief of the blood' --blood is the life of the body.
4. In Genesis we see that man/adam/Adam/Man was made "male and female" --many think that means girls and boys but it can also mean that both 'girls' and 'boys' have passive (female) and active (male) natures though girls may have say, 80% passive and 20% active, while boys may have 80% active and 20% passive. The neuro-physiology of females shows that the nervous system of femmes is moreso dedicated to subconscious process than in men.
5. The Hindu scriptures also refer to a Adama and a Havyavathy and their literal flesh and blood descendants.
6. Troward seems to assert there having been only two trees in the Garden, other texts and Genesis itself might disagree and if we consider men as trees walking that idea of only two trees is overturned plain and simple.
7. Even if Genesis were 100% fiction like a movie, how can we trust anyone who can't even be honest about the text or who shows they can't even properly discern or read it (error is one thing but blindness and deception are something else).

The Bible gives insight as to trees.

3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. Ezekiel 31:3-9

Could be the possibility that the Garden of Eden and the Garden of the Lord or the Garden of God are the not the same?

Mark 8 hint.

22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. Mark 8:22-24

Men can bear fruit?

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

What waters your tree?

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Matt. 7:16

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Genesis 1:26-30

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:4-7

"Man became a living soul"--this is done before the instruction regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil is given. If Adam were a mere pile of chalk and carbon, why is he referred to as becoming a "living soul"?

***

Away from Genesis for a moment, its a spiritual book right?

4 The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens. 5 Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high, 6 Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth! 7 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill; 8 That he may set him with princes, even with the princes of his people. Psalm 113:4-8

8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them. 1 Samuel 2:8

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:1-3

[allodial]

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

...

15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 2:8-9, 15, 21-24

So clearly:

1. Adam is given instruction--if he were a pile of chalk why would he be given instruction?
2. Breath was given before the instruction--clearly Adam was not a mere pile of bones for he became a 'living soul' so how is it possible for someone to arrive at Eve being Adam's soul?
2. To knowledge the Chaldee or Hebrew word for 'man' is 'adam'.
3. much of creation is made before adam/Adam shows up --the prerogative then is to God to grant dominion over what He created. Adam might not be able to boast of having been involved in such creation.
4. there are multiple trees in the garden --not just two.
5. Clearly Eve being taken out of Adam would result in a 'vibe' of familiarity, a connection. In the case of a baby bourne by his mother for 9 months, there would be a resonance/vibe/connection between the mother and the baby. Since the baby has the father's 'essense' there would also be a vibe between the baby and the father. See all that one-ness, and unity that is to make the baby feel unity rather than separateness.
6. Are we supposed to believe that God breathed breath into Adam, made him a living soul then took his soul (allegedly "Eve") out? Wuuut?

7. If Eve was created out of Adam's rib then would she not also be chalk and carbon? Was Eve ever given breath from God?

I mean consider the perspective: the works of Thomas Troward are quite interesting, I could only wonder what exactly he was reading because in 10 Bible versions and multiple languages I couldn't come to the same conclusions he did based on the reading of the texts [because what he suggests is not there]. However, if I were to take scissors and cut out everything contrary to the point he is making then VOILA *presto chango ala magica* *BAM* "thats what the Bible says!" (sarcasm)

***

Order of events:

* Adam formed of the dust
* Adam given breath --becomes a living soul
* Adam put in the Garden of Eden to dress and keep it
* Adam given instruction concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil (good and evil in the same tree?)
* Eve formed out of Adam

[allodial]

..........

[george]

..........

. - - - . . -. ?

[xparte]

i only requite one Christ make appropriate return for (a favor, service, or wrongdoing).My hat goes off to both in your service too Christ the favor i have remains with Christ any wrongdoing is being appropriately chewed when biblical cannon goes off spirt both Men offer significance in any subscription too content affecting ones spiritual life. The bible and its word has created ZOMeBodies of the word worship dont give me a knife as i cant die at my own hand I offer both somebodies universal approach with significance to the questions we ask ourself if Christ has significance we all do. interoperating names and titles for the truth how it identifies that truth is the rockcandy.who ever one with the truth W- O-N

[allodial]

i only requite one Christ make appropriate return for (a favor, service, or wrongdoing).My hat goes off to both in your service too Christ the favor i have remains with Christ any wrongdoing is being appropriately chewed when biblical cannon goes off spirt both Men offer significance in any subscription too content affecting ones spiritual life. The bible and its word has created ZOMeBodies of the word worship dont give me a knife as i cant die at my own hand I offer both somebodies universal approach with significance to the questions we ask ourself if Christ has significance we all do. interoperating names and titles for the truth how it identifies that truth is the rockcandy.who ever one with the truth W- O-N

There's a difference between what someone does with something and what it is. Baby != bathwater.