The Three Heaven and Earth Ages

[Axe]

I am humbled by your commitment to our discussion, and apologize
for the time it has taken me to get back to it. I can't express how
much I appreciate your commitment.

It is quite edifying to have these discussions with someone mature in
their faith. I hesitate to have such discussions with anyone about
theoretical matters of God's Word, as my primary concern is always
that I never lead anyone astray.

I will read every study carefully and consider every point in meditation
and prayer. I'm having some problems finding a pre 65 Strong's though,
so that may take some time.

Thank you also for keeping with the inspired texts, which is the reason
I'm able to give your points my absolute attention. I very much look
forward to hearing your interpretations.

Tom

[Michael Joseph]

I am humbled by your commitment to our discussion, and apologize
for the time it has taken me to get back to it. I can't express how
much I appreciate your commitment.

It is quite edifying to have these discussions with someone mature in
their faith. I hesitate to have such discussions with anyone about
theoretical matters of God's Word, as my primary concern is always
that I never lead anyone astray.

I will read every study carefully and consider every point in meditation
and prayer. I'm having some problems finding a pre 65 Strong's though,
so that may take some time.

Thank you also for keeping with the inspired texts, which is the reason
I'm able to give your points my absolute attention. I very much look
forward to hearing your interpretations.

Tom

Strongs Concordance


Jay Green's Interlinear - excellent

[Axe]

MJ,

ב וְהָאָרֶץ, הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ, וְחֹשֶׁךְ, עַל-פְּנֵי תְהוֹם; וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים, מְרַחֶפֶתעַל-פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם
Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.

וְהָאָ֗רֶץ ve·ha·'a·retz 776 the earth
הָיְתָ֥ה ha·ye·tah 1961 was
תֹ֙הוּ֙ to·hu 8414 was formless
וָבֹ֔הוּ va·vo·hu, 922 and void
וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ ve·cho·shech 2822 and darkness
עַל־ al- 5921 was over
פְּנֵ֣י pe·nei 6440 the surface
תְהֹ֑ום te·ho·vm; 8415 of the deep
וְר֣וּחַ ve·ru·ach 7307 and the Spirit
אֱלֹהִ֔ים e·lo·him, 430 of God
מְרַחֶ֖פֶת me·ra·che·fet 7363 was moving
עַל־ al- 5921 over
פְּנֵ֥י pe·nei 6440 the surface
הַמָּֽיִם׃ ham·ma·yim. 4325 of the waters

I would like to thank you again for this discussion.

If what you're presenting is correct, then the scripture is clearly wrong when it says in

Romans 5:12, “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin...”

If Adam and Eve were walking on the remains of billions of years of dead animals and pre-Adamic men, then sin did not enter the world through Adam but was already present in the world.

This is simply not in agreement with God’s word.

Secondly whenever a numerical is used with the word day (Hebrew yom) it always, always, always (in Scripture) means a 24 hour period of time or part of that period.

Over and over again in Genesis 1 we read “evening and morning were the first (or second , or third etc.) day. Not only do we have the numerical “...first (or second etc. but we also have the bookends “...evening and morning...” Clearly a 24 hour period of time is specified. The church has believed this for thousands of years and for thousands of years before that the Jews believed this as the interpretation of Genesis 1.

Finally the most definitive Scripture is Revelation 21:1 which says,“Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away...” This is speaking about the time after the millennial reign of Christ on earth when God destroys everything and creates a new heaven and earth (see II Peter 3:7-13).

So if the current earth is the “...first earth...” spoken about in II Peter 3 and Revelation 21 then there was no earth prior to this earth and there were no pre-Adamic people. First means first, not second or third.

The Scofield Bible, which it sounds like is where your interpretation came from, maintains that the condition of the earth in verse 2 is the result of judgement, and therefore interprets the word haya as "become".

The problem is the Hebrew construction in verse 2 is disjunctive, describing the result of the "creation" described in verse 1. Consequently the phrase "without for and void" is often misunderstood.These words are found in only a few other places, and as I have said before, context is everything when interpreting scripture.

Is 34:11; 45:18
Jer. 4:23

They do not describe chaos, but emptiness. Better "unformed" and "unfilled".

Be Blessed,
Tom

[Michael Joseph]

hey Tom,

I simple do not agree.

I leave it to the Reader to make up their own mind.

I have never heard of Scofield.

shalom,
mj


P.S. Sin was present in the World when Ha Satan rose up in Pride in the 1st Age - before the this current flesh Age.

How can Yehovah be so cruel and unfair - he Hated poor ole Esau - even in his mother's belly; and, boy that flood of Noah's must have been HUGE to reach all the way into the Heavens.

To the Reader: I believe I have given ample supporting documentation in the studies presented. I mean lets not even go to Election. You mean Yehovah selected - unfairly according to the doctrine of 6k year creation - to predestine and prejustify some prior to their birth. How LUCKY for them. That, my friend, is inconsistent with the God of Israel. Yehovah does not pay a slackard and Yehovah pays at the end of the day. And certainly Yehovah does not give to one who is unworthy.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

I mean hey if the us is everyone, then why the need for the cross? Boy those Election sure are LUCKY - how absurd and ridiculous. Yehovah does not deal with unfair balances. You earn what Yehovah grants.

Therefore, we do not agree. However, to the Reader who has found this thread, I hope that you will read the studies and decide for yourself.

And you know so that a Record can be set right before the eyes of a newbie:

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: [Ref Psalm 104 - the waters were suspended over the earth - Firmament]

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


Man, NOAH's flood was HUGE it tore up the Heavens too. Wow. Reader make up your own mind.


2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

G2537
καινός
kainos
kahee-nos'
Of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age): - new.

Therefore this word "new" would have been better translated "renewed" as this "old" Earth is rejuvenated and quickened.


Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

and yet there is that out of place word at Gen 1:2 "was". And the scribes must have really been off their rocker when they wrote this:

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

I can see how this Scofield might have found the word in Gen 1:2 "was" = "became" or "come to exist" because that fits with a majority of both the old and the new testament.


Tom, I am not trying to convince you of anything. I just don't accept your presentment.

We must study to show OURSELVES approved. As such, I admire that you are willing to do just that.


Regarding The Man [Adam] which Adam is Adam:

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:


Boy somebody is REALLY confused, I know I am - not really - I jest.

[Axe]

Hey MJ,

Tom, I am not trying to convince you of anything. I just don't accept your presentment.

I think we understand each other. I didn't think you would, nor was I trying to convince you of my
point of view :-)

I have comments on your other studies, but I was planning to address those on their respective threads,
unless you would rather them be addressed here.

BTW... I know you must know this but "firmament" is the span of sky between the waters.

"the firmament divided the waters".

And I agree it was there, it's also probably why people could live so long. Only after the flood
did life span slowly decrease. Because there was no more water above the "firmament",
as that is what came down on the earth.


Be Blessed,

Tom

[Spud]

Hi mj, I have enjoyed your talks on the divine mind group very much.

I would like to speek to you about Trust Law if you wouldn't mind.

[Michael Joseph]

Hi mj, I have enjoyed your talks on the divine mind group very much.

I would like to speek to you about Trust Law if you wouldn't mind.

Thank you.

Please start a thread but not in this one. I have written extensively here about Trust Law here within this forum.

[Michael Joseph]

For those of you who have Asked, find attached to this issue a Study made on the Three Heaven and Earth Ages.


Attachment 200


Shalom,
mj

Per request

[Michael Joseph]

Hey Tom, you are welcome. The claim is there are no seas. Reading carefully and critically you will find that the waters were suspended in what I will loosely call the atmosphere but in reality there was no storm because the magnetic north and the true north were exactly the same. Therefore there was no "wobble" in the earth and there were no storms. I see no "inconsistency" as you put it. Reading carefully the writer is conveying that Yehovah is a consuming fire. One has to make great leaps to find an inconsistency - as the writer does not say the "seas" boiled.

It has been a long time since I made this study, I believe my claim was there was no seas, lakes, etc in the first age. See what is actually written in the study at Psalms 104:6 and the following commentary.

Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Firmament.


shalom,
mj

p.s. you will notice as per my original agreement with you, i have not left the KJV. I believe I have kept my word. See the remaining studies as they do build upon each other and I have kept my word to you.

therefore, I believe, the "possible inconsistency" has been abated by the word groupings found herein.

I do hope you will read ALL of the studies made. I made them in part for you per our original agreement stated hereinbefore.


3. Election of Yehovah

4. Attachment 683
5. Attachment 684
6. Attachment 685
7. Attachment 686
7a. Who are the Sons of God

8. Attachment 688

Per Request 2