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Thread: Why we pay taxes, who has to pay taxes, and redeeming lawful

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbinville View Post
    In Massachusetts, I bought my house 30 years ago this month, using a quitclaim deed to my wife and I as tenants by the entirety. Just for fun, I ran the title as far back as I could, and got to 1688 before the trail ran dry. It turned out that the woman who sold the land then was the daughter and heir of a man who came over with the original 1630 Puritans, and who was given fee simple title to his land by the Crown.
    Thanks for that bobbinville.

    Looking for the 1630 Puritans I came across some things, never heard of the 1630 Puritans before.

    In an unprecedented move designed to further their purposes, the Congregationalist merchants had decided before leaving England to transfer the charter and the headquarters of the Massachusetts Bay Company to New England-what the Crown had given, the Crown could take away. Thus the settlers would be answerable to no one in the mother country, and would be able to handle their affairs, secular and religious, as they pleased. http://brownellfamily.rootsweb.ances...Pilgrims2.html

    The name "puritan" came to be used to describe members of the Church of England who wished to purify it of all semblances to the Roman Catholic Church, in particular the liturgy, vestments and episcopal hierarchy. The Puritans emphasized that they did not wish to destroy the Church of England, nor did they want to separate from it. Their sole aim was to restore it to its original purity. http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h573.html

    TO HAVE and to hold, the said part of New England in America, which lies and extends and is abutted as aforesaid, and every part and parcel thereof; and all the said islands, rivers, ports, havens, waters, fishing, mines, and minerals, jurisdictions, franchises, royalties, liberties, privileges, commodities, hereditaments, and premises whatsoever, with the appurtenances unto the said Sir Henry Rosewell, Sir John Young, Thomas Southcott, John Humphrey, John Endecott, and Simon Whetcombe, their heirs and assigns, and their associates, to the only proper and absolute use and behalf of the said Sir Henry Rosewell, Sir John Young, Thomas Southcott, John Humphrey, John Endecott, and Simon Whetcombe, their heirs and assigns, and their associates forevermore; To be holden of us, our heirs and successors, as of our Manor of Eastgreenwich, in the county of Kent, in free and common socage, and not in capite, nor by knights service; Yielding and paying therefore unto us, our heirs and successors, the fifth part of the ore of gold and silver, which shall from time to time, and at all times hereafter, happen to be found, gotten, had, and obtained in any of the said lands, within the said limits, or in or within any part thereof, for, and in satisfaction of all manner duties, demands and services whatsoever to be done, made, or paid to us, our heirs or successors, as in and by the said recited indenture more at large may appear. http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/organic/1629-cmb2.htm

    In the United States, land is acquired in basically one of two ways; from the government or from an individual. The first sale of land from the government to a person is called a grant or a patent. Thereafter, the sale of that land from a person is called a deed. https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/...d_and_Property

    The united states became incorporated in 1871 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0163253AATSfpu

    The United States 'government' is actually the United States Corporation. It was created behind the screen of a 'Federal Government' when, after the manufactured 'victory' in the American War on 'Independence', the British colonies exchanged overt dictatorship from London for the far more effective covert dictatorship that has been in place ever since. http://www.freedom-school.com/the-un...rporation.html

    Since most of the Indian nations had supported the British during the Revolutionary War, the Thirteen States were cautious in approaching their former enemies. Populating the frontier with citizens skilled in defense offered the best prospect in enticing other settlers to join them. Veterans were knowledgeable in the use of firearms and in military strategy. Knowing that they would be defended if the need arose was reassuring to many settlers. The state governments also realized that the revenue derived from the sale of vacant lands in the west was badly needed. The extension of settlements on the frontier would, in time, also increase the tax rolls and contribute to the reduction of their Revolutionary War debts. In the aftermath of the war, the states with transappalachian claims ceded some of those claims to the federal government, but not until they had the assurance of being able to fulfill their bounty land commitments. http://www.genealogy.com/24_land.html

    Bought this and another presidential land grant at an estate sale for $1 each. This one is signed by Martin Van Buren (1837-41)--who everyone knows--was our 8th president sandwiched between Andrew Jackson and William Henry Harrison. The land grants were issued to veterans of the War of 1812 and other settlers as a means of enticing them to settle lands in the "west." Due to the large number of grants and presidential carpal tunnel (not really), most were signed by a secretary after 1833 and not worth much over $100, but they are somewhat interesting. Click to enlarge. http://www.lancezedric.com/2012/01/p...nts-1800s.html
    Last edited by Chex; 10-06-13 at 02:38 PM.

  2. #32
    Another tidbit: For a long time this nation "We the People" have believed that we are a free nation and have freedom of liberty and Justice for all. We have believed that we own our property and have certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That was true at one point in time but as time past we lost a lot of what we had through the change of language usage. Language usage created what is known as Color of Law. Our entire society today lives under Color of Law. http://www.landpatentlaw.com/Pages/default.aspx

    Color of Law Law & Legal Definition

    To me has a reference with http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...ll=1#post11789

  3. #33
    I say that if you think your name is the full or legal name then you automatically swear out just such an oath and take on the color of official capacity, utilizing the trust on social government as your bond. Fine! It is when that same government assigns trusteeship back upon you, and you automatically accept because you do not know your true name that you become unable to effectively refuse for cause that appointment.

    Search out METRO organization around here for the suitors Charter of Freedoms and Exemptions Granted to Patroons (1629) bonding the Libels of Review. Bobbinville might feel his Charter supersedes mine but with the METRO organization development since 1958 I argue that municipal jurisdiction, City of XXXXX worldwide prevails.

    I enjoy the copyright 1877 for my history lessons. I might get some images about Poppinville's charter for comparison?


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  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    ... with the METRO organization development since 1958 I argue that municipal jurisdiction, City of XXXXX worldwide prevails.
    Is that to say that the so-called "governments" are able to only function as municipal corporations or subdivisions of municipal corporations and no more--that they are as a result of METRO severely blunted? It seems that cities are favored by some for the same reason scrip is favored. Its interesting that Federal Reserve Banks are always associated with a city (i.e. municipal corporation) rather than with a county.

    Police officer: Do you live in "the city"?
    Respondent: No. I live in my house.
    Police officer: Is your house in "the city"?
    Respondent: No. Its on the side of a hill.
    Note, "the city" vs. "the City of Chicago". (Canada they say means "village".) A village is a type of municipal corporation or municipality. Do you live in the kanata? (However there are some say that Canada is named after the Portuguese word for river or byway. (Page 159 of this book.)) In the village or in the river or in the street? Take your pick?

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    Last edited by allodial; 10-09-13 at 07:34 AM.
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    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  5. #35

    wrong!

    Really? show me one court case that proffers that... I went down that road years ago to no avail... why because it just is not true. Everything is ours and always has been it is just a slight of hand trick (see above) which convinces one that it is not. We are God so far as "it" or any fiction (government, Bank, corporation etc etc ) is concerned... can you tax God ?? NO! Can you tell God what to do? NO!! So why do you keep enslaving yourself to the toaster you made or bought (exchanged something of substance and value for in exchange) to make you toast?? It is utter hogwash and BS ... your about half way through your studies! Read the Statutes, a few hundred cases and find that they walk a very fine line to stay lawful yet allow morons to be mislead by their ignorance. Not to be rude just been there (bring a mislead moron/dumb ass) done that a few years ago.. Ask yourself one question... did the State create you? No! thus you are not a subject of the State and thus not Subject to the State, Bank, money, all upper case NAME or any of the paper so you are not subject to them!! They "all creations of the State are to benefit the people" just like that damn toaster was created to make your life better and thus "Happiness". Anything less is a malfunction and needs to be corrected.. fix it or throw it away/"throw off" just as you would a rain coat on a sunny day "as it pleases you". If you are happy being yoked with "debt", false obligations etc then keep doing what you've been doing, but do NOT impose it upon any other!!!! Thank you..



    Quote Originally Posted by motla68 View Post
    All this and neither one of those monetary system are yours, if you did not print it you are using someone else's money to buy things and not returning the receipts therefore the tax man will continue to come after you. We can skirt Income taxes and some other taxes with Public Money, but still it is not our money. Courts are not our laws either, unless you formed a committee to help create a law, it is not your law, but we keep making the mistake of interfering in it. The documents you used to get that bank account you deposit that money in is not yours either, all you can really do is make a stand on right of possession and use of the equity in which were created by your energy in exchange for depositing the receipts to treasury.

    You want to rebuild the Republic then lets build it, you cannot build it if you keep taking everything out of it.

  6. #36
    Motla68 has not been posting for quite some time.

    It is however good to hear passion about lessons learned. It puts off potential new suitors how I will tell them they are where I was in the late '90's... So I can relate to how you feel.

    Your gist seems to be about not owning or being responsible for anything? I am not getting where you are coming from. Sometimes I can place a pundit's name or doctrine title though.


    P.S. I have been studying Science of Mind - no necessarily buying into it - Ernest Shurtleff HOLMES was a channel. A Course in Miracles is also taught under the same roof. That is channeling too.

    I have been looking into it enough to comprehend remembering or unity, whatever you want to call the metaphysics of attributing part or all of experiencing this reality as something we create or co-create. - Even miscreate by our ego being in charge...

    This is something I read into your proposition therefore - that we own anything in the physical reality at all. If you perceive there is a Creator God, then does not He own everything. That is to say, if God is out there and not within you according to Genesis - the Image and Likeness doctrine.

    The money system says, IN GOD WE TRUST. Therefore the money at least declares that God is the Trustee. The declaration went on the money at about the same time the federal government began printing fiat currency. So I suppose it is to say, IN COLORADO WE TRUST being that the first fiat began here based on the GILPIN NOTES.
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    Last edited by David Merrill; 10-17-13 at 07:20 AM.

  7. #37
    Not a soul wants to pay taxes. Every person does, however, want the stuff taxes pay for though some differ on how they should be collected. State income taxes are despised by some and a few states are considering ditching them, but there's evidence as to how good and bad they really are.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ariacook View Post
    Not a soul wants to pay taxes. Every person does, however, want the stuff taxes pay for though some differ on how they should be collected. State income taxes are despised by some and a few states are considering ditching them, but there's evidence as to how good and bad they really are.

    Thanks for posting that.

    I am not sure if it is the opening paragraph you quoted or the nature of the article itself you are expressing as interesting. The idea of "fair share" in the topic sentence though, always strikes a sour note with me. It is a very difficult matter to hash out with skeptics who would label me a tax protester.

    For 100 years now come December 23 Congress has approved elastic currency and for this nation it has smoothed over, starting with the Great Depression many a missed meal and leaky roof. Then it would seem for a millennium China has build a Wall and studied English and has been buying up bonds of debt so that they might have a nice place to move when the industry poisons geographic China. I posted articles about A-China-Ca as this website was being built years ago.

    Then there are the economic woes that spread like Bail-in in Greece - just plain socializing the wealthy.

    The Fed act introduced fractional lending that expanded the money supply and was built to be abolished in twenty years. It is now a hundred years. Does that mean it is too late to solve the bad idea in the manner intended by Congress?

  9. #39
    The Fed now makes sure you pay your 'fair share' whether you choose to do so voluntarily or not, by debasing the currency. I just heard an argument similar to the 'every person wants the stuff taxes pay for' concerning the roads. Who owns the roads? Does the government own the road? They paid for it, but with money they stole from the citizens. Following other arguments presented above, the state exists for the benefit of the citizens, established with their consent. So I consented to let the state build the road, with tax money they took from me at gunpoint (I did not consent to the tax demanded; it was foisted on me by subterfuge and deceit, and since becoming aware of the fraud involved, I have chosen not to pay the tax in the future). Actually, since money is fungible, it is unclear which tax money was used to build the road, although the highway fuel tax is specifically designated for this purpose, and I did consent to pay that tax when I purchased gasoline, so I own the road, and this argument fails.

    Now, what is your fair share? That would depend entirely on what services, provided by the government, you expect to consume during the tax year, or maybe all future tax years. A ridiculous concept, and one that is put forward to try to legitimize theft. Your fair share is whatever you choose to voluntarily contribute, since the association with the government is voluntary. And the only legitimate purpose of government (per Lysander Spooner) is to protect property rights and provide for defense against foreign enemies, surely 1% of your income should be sufficient for those legitimate purposes. Everything else the Federal (corporate) government does is organized theft, designed to take the maximum amount of money/resources from one group (in this case Republicans and Tea Party libertarians) and give it to another group (the Free Shit Army, aka Democrat voters, welfare recipients, and illegal immigrants). Since the Federal Reserve is already taking 10% of your earnings every year through counterfeiting of the currency, you have no further obligation to contribute, but of course you can do so out of charity if you choose...

  10. #40
    JohnnyCash
    Guest
    The simplest way to avoid that 10% inflation hit, Freed, is to use a different currency. For example, if you used bitcoin, a digital currency that bypasses government & central banking altogether, not only would you avoid the Fed debasement, you'd avoid taxation as well. And if you had earlier stored some of your savings in bitcoin, you'd be settin' pretty right about now: https://coinbase.com/charts

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