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Thread: Adventures in land ownership

  1. #11
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikamaru View Post
    I most partial to quitclaim deeds myself .
    yes that one is very good. I got a bridge ON the territory California to sell to you - will you accept a "quit-claim" deed? I would not take a "quit-claim" deed unless I really trusted the one who caused the equity transfer was lawfully with a simple FEE.
    The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

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  2. #12
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnowLaw View Post
    Precisely, shikamaru. Tree Farmer was correct in his evaluation of this deal: he got attorned (i.e. screwed)!

    In fact the whole Section 9 (b) i, ii, and iii is a dead giveaway that this contract maintains the statutory status of the contract. Title insurance is only recommended in such contracts in lieu of an abstract of title. Whenever you agree to such a contractual stipulation, you operate within the statutory realm.

    Also, the fact that a Warranty Deed was issued is also a dead giveaway as this is only evidence of "title under color of law," but not yet title in fact. If you can trace the land back to a land patent, you're in much better shape with regard to being able to claim an "allodial" nature of ownership. Better yet would have been to obtain a Grant Deed from the seller, forego the involvement of the attorney, and not record that instrument with any statutory authority (i.e. the county or the state) but only "notice" them (i.e. the county assessor) of the change in ownership as recordation is now seen as "registration" of property with the statutory authority. When you record a deed these days you've just entered into a contract with the county and the state, which operates as a "kind of" parens patriae in commerce to maintain the commercial viability of the property within their "legal" system of governance. You are, however, under no obligation to avail yourself of the state's services in matters such as this, is my understanding of the matter.

    There are ways to correct this. When I have more free time (months away at this point, as I am buried in work that takes priority over any project that would entail a detailed explanation of law in matters such as this) I will return with my findings based on my practical experience and open a thread to explain what I have learned and accomplished and how others can go about following suit. I have recently taken the property I own out of the statutory realm and provided notice of such to the appropriate county officials.

    This is not that difficult to understand or to accomplish once you have access to a reading of the law that you can rely upon as an ultimate authority. I've spent the better part of the last two years studying this and have all the legal citations (or at least a great many of them) to back it up.
    How about giving us some leads in the meantime?
    I like to read up on things myself.
    Thank you.
    Treefarmer

    There is power in the blood of Jesus

  3. #13
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    Continuing:
    After I got the Real Estate Purchase Agreement document from the lawyer, I met with the seller of the property, or land, at his kitchen table and I gave him a cashiers' check for $30,000 and $5,000 in cash.
    He signed the paperwork and we shook hands and that sealed the deal.

    Then I took that signed Purchase Agreement to the lawyer to "draw up the paper work".
    He also recommended that I "purchase" title insurance, which he also sold, and I agreed to that too.

    Then the lawyer asked me about the purchase price and I, feeling put on the spot and confused about it, said $25,000. Since I didn't know what I was doing, that seemed like a good compromise at the time.
    Something didn't sit right with me about that though, because the purchase agreement didn't name the price, and I felt like that was none of the lawyer's business.
    He tricked me into disclosing a sum though by having a blank space on the deed for the purchase price, so I thought it had to be provided.
    In hindsight, I did not have to disclose that private deal at all!
    I have since noticed that most recorded deeds say nothing about how much the land was sold for.
    Attorned again!

    A few days later I went by the lawyer's office and picked up the completed WARRANTY DEED and paid him for it.
    The document was stapled to a blue piece of heavy paper, the exact same color which Motla68 showed on his picture of his private agreement, which he called Robin egg blue. Not sure I've ever seen a robin egg, and I noticed that Motla68 may be banned now, but it makes me wonder about the symbolism of it. Does anyone know about this?
    The lawyer said I needed to record the Warranty Deed at the County Court House.
    When I went there, I was surprised that I had to pay a hefty "transfer tax" which was a percentage of the purchase price.
    I knew I was getting screwed, only I didn't know what to do about it.

    I felt like I didn't have a choice and paid up.

    I've attached the sanitized Warranty Deed.
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    Treefarmer

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    Continuing:
    I acquired another adjacent 5 acres some years down the road from my mother, who gave it to me as a wedding present.
    She had originally bought it to build a cabin on it, so she could visit me and spend time in the woods.
    Then she realized she liked neither the climate, nor the chiggers (red bugs), nor the native Tennessean culture, and especially not my new husband, so voilà - the perfect wedding gift.
    I am very grateful and appreciative of this of course and I do count my blessings, realizing my unworthiness

    This tract of land had been bought for $15,000, paid in cashier's check in a private deal with the neighbors, who also live next door.
    The Warranty Deed shows as purchase price the $ amount of an old assessment value though.
    Interesting how that works.
    Again, it seems like it was unnecessary to put any price on there, because none of the previous owners' deeds showed purchase prices. These are private land deals after all.
    Attorned again, this time by a new lawyer, who took over that only law office, after the previous lawyer I had dealt with was promoted to county court judge.
    I noticed that the new lawyer did not utilize the blue paper wrappers, which the previous lawyer had been in the habit of stapling to the deed documents.

    I did not purchase title insurance on this one.
    My mother had purchased the title insurance, and I was getting tired of being attorned, so I let it go. I figured the title was probably good.
    I had to pay a transfer tax at the court house again when I registered my deed.

    Attached is the Warranty Deed for the 5 acres.
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    Treefarmer

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  5. #15
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    I'm noticing that the quality of the attachments is really bad.
    Anybody have any ideas how I can get it to look better?
    Treefarmer

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  6. #16
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treefarmer View Post
    I'm noticing that the quality of the attachments is really bad.
    Anybody have any ideas how I can get it to look better?
    If you have a professional version of Adobe Acrobat, you could print to Adobe.

    Get a look at the TO HAVE AND TO HOLD CLAUSE - see that word "Forever"...
    The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

    Lawful Money Trust Website

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  7. #17
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    If you have a professional version of Adobe Acrobat, you could print to Adobe.

    Get a look at the TO HAVE AND TO HOLD CLAUSE - see that word "Forever"...
    Unfortunately I don't have Adobe Acrobat.
    I'm trying out some MS office picture manager possibilities right now.

    I see that word "forever", yes.
    What about it specifically were you referring to?
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    Treefarmer

    There is power in the blood of Jesus

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    yes that one is very good. I got a bridge ON the territory California to sell to you - will you accept a "quit-claim" deed? I would not take a "quit-claim" deed unless I really trusted the one who caused the equity transfer was lawfully with a simple FEE.
    And this is why you request the title abstract along with the quitclaim deed.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Michael Joseph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikamaru View Post
    And this is why you request the title abstract along with the quitclaim deed.
    I suppose it depends of perspective. If I can sell you an interest by way of assignment, by and thru the Trustee, then we don't need a DEED. This is much,much more superior to any of these DEEDS discussed herein.

    If you are one who wants a DEED, then I am going to issue one of three - Limited Warranty Deed, Bargain and Sale Deed or Quit-Claim. If you want a Title Search, then do it yourself or pay an attorney. If you are one who uses banks, then you will be forced to get a title search.

    But I can guarantee, that in the Purchase and Sale Agreement, I am NOT paying for it.

    ----------------------------

    Transfer into Trust - Warranty Deed to Trustee. When you want to sell - Assign beneficial interest to another party. Substitute Trustees....have a nice day.

    The Trust is Superior.

    -------------------------------------

    There was one who asked concerning the word "Forever". That's a mighty long time......See the trust.....READ carefully the "TO HAVE AND TO HOLD CLAUSE......I hope after you do you can see the trust.

    Reader - the Legal Title is NEVER impaired or even Transferred. It is the equitable Title that is transferred in Trust. Therefore the Property NEVER leaves the Trust - Forever.

    Is property the land or the house? If you answer yes, then you do not understand the trust.
    The blessing is in the hand of the doer. Faith absent deeds is dead.

    Lawful Money Trust Website

    Divine Mind Community Call - Sundays 8pm EST

    ONE man or woman can make a difference!

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    I suppose it depends of perspective. If I can sell you an interest by way of assignment, by and thru the Trustee, then we don't need a DEED. This is much,much more superior to any of these DEEDS discussed herein.

    If you are one who wants a DEED, then I am going to issue one of three - Limited Warranty Deed, Bargain and Sale Deed or Quit-Claim. If you want a Title Search, then do it yourself or pay an attorney. If you are one who uses banks, then you will be forced to get a title search.

    But I can guarantee, that in the Purchase and Sale Agreement, I am NOT paying for it.

    ----------------------------

    Transfer into Trust - Warranty Deed to Trustee. When you want to sell - Assign beneficial interest to another party. Substitute Trustees....have a nice day.

    The Trust is Superior.

    -------------------------------------

    There was one who asked concerning the word "Forever". That's a mighty long time......See the trust.....READ carefully the "TO HAVE AND TO HOLD CLAUSE......I hope after you do you can see the trust.

    Reader - the Legal Title is NEVER impaired or even Transferred. It is the equitable Title that is transferred in Trust. Therefore the Property NEVER leaves the Trust - Forever.

    Is property the land or the house? If you answer yes, then you do not understand the trust.
    If selling the interest in land, assuming the seller has the whole interest, all papers concerning the land would be turned over to the buyer including plat map, first title deed (land patent), title abstract (all deeds chaining back to the first title deed), and conveyance deed.

    If the person (seller) really was on his toes he would include all treaties, acts, and statutes that have bearing on his first title deed (land patent) as well.

    This is if the seller was on the ball ...
    Last edited by shikamaru; 06-03-11 at 01:18 AM.

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