Adventures in land ownership

[Treefarmer]

continued...

[Treefarmer]

last page of hydrocarbon deed

[Treefarmer]

There is much more, my friend.
You can raise the roof ....
David Wilbur Johnson has tons of great info on this stuff.

Bring in the financial side such as pertaining to the CAFR of the State, bonds, and the commercial standing of the court, I have a very good feeling that if your case goes to controversy, it may be sealed

Bring the boom

Plat maps
Surveys
Treaties
Patents or grants
Acts and Statutes in effect at the time of the creation of the muniment
Abstract of Title

Makes for a really nice sandwich

Micellaneous case jacket wouldn't hurt in this case either ....

I looked up David Wilbur Johnson and found his talks on property rights.
Interesting stuff, but it will take me a while to listen to it all.

I think that the biggest obstacle to finding facts about land records is the un-availability of the old records in many areas.
At least in my particular search I keep running into dead ends because of "records burnt up in court house fire", "maps were not kept by County at the time", "Cherokees didn't have written records", "land sales were recorded at an office which hasn't existed in over a hundred years", etc.

I appreciate the many good points you raised shikamaru.

[Treefarmer]

It sounds to me that you have done quite a bit of extensive research in the State archives or in the Land Records Office. So have I. Who granted the land to the States? You cannot get around the King's Grant. The King sent His Citizens, His subjects to settle these new proprietory settlements - commercial ventures. Think me wrong? Let us explore just one such settlement. The Carolinas.

Sir Walter Raleigh, being the Surveyor - so that the Claim could be made....

Attachment 287

That document looks interesting Michael Joseph, thank you.
Have you seen or read some of the books described therein, such as The History of Land Titles in Western North Carolina?

[Michael Joseph]

That document looks interesting Michael Joseph, thank you.
Have you seen or read some of the books described therein, such as The History of Land Titles in Western North Carolina?

I was looking for the original land grants for Wake County. I found them filed in a library on mclenburg county. I admit i have not read those sources. I mean looking thru those archives was like a needle in haystack. The curator would not let me in some rooms - sensitive State information - you know.

[Treefarmer]

If you are on North Carolina, I can help you because I have done extensive research. The BLM cannot help you for the original 13.

I have the Metes and Bounds for the North Carolina and the Metes and Bounds for Wake County. Boundaries are important as these go to survey.

Does that survey which you have include the area of North Carolina which later became the eastern part of Tennessee?

[Michael Joseph]

Does that survey which you have include the area of North Carolina which later became the eastern part of Tennessee?

If you need the metes and bounds for Tennessee, I can hook that up.

Answer: no

[Treefarmer]

If you need the metes and bounds for Tennessee, I can hook that up.

Answer: no

Sure, hook me up.
Thank you Michael Joseph.

[motla68]

I was looking for the original land grants for Wake County. I found them filed in a library on mclenburg county. I admit i have not read those sources. I mean looking thru those archives was like a needle in haystack. The curator would not let me in some rooms - sensitive State information - you know.

There is a book in wake county library I think called North Carolina History 1583, it shows some of the land grant information for north carolina, wake county was not formed until later, I think at one time it was part of Johnston County and it stretched all the way up to oxford.
My buddy who has a camp near North Wilkesboro has some good references to all that stuff too, I will ask him and get back with you.

[allodial]

...giveaway that this contract maintains the statutory status of the contract. Title insurance is only recommended in such contracts in lieu of an abstract of title. Whenever you agree to such a contractual stipulation, you operate within the statutory realm.

No surprise. When it comes to real estate, an attorney will likely draft a contract dealing with objects/subjects in his 'reality'--as in what he is comfortable with (why expect otherwise?).

If one knows who one is (i.e. the "true you" vs "legal entity") its not that difficult. If one is seeking allodial/full title--OK... First one might want to get the statutory entity that has a claim ("the seller") to vacate its claim (Warranty Deed or Warranty & Quitclaim Deed) [the Real Estate Sales Agreement outlines the terms/conditions/consideration of doing so right?). After one does that, one can still do a lis pendens and/or quiet title proceeding. If one gets the gist of this paragraph then it would be obvious that at times it might be best to go in two stages that logically ought to follow one after the other.

The "real estate purchase process" seems complicated probably because it was made complicated and the standard contract presumes not only mortgage but "residential sale/purchase" rather than private sale/purchase. Some of the chub is for the protection of a bank providing a mortgage. It might be helpful to become skilled in distinguishing just what is key in the process for protecting a purchaser vs what is for a bank vs what is for protecting a seller. An honest purchaser would likely wish to see to it that a win-win situation results.

So one can simply have a trust in the box (with an address like 1000 House Street, New York, New York 12345" and then after getting the warranty deed or the like proceeding to perfect a higher claim to than the trust using true name or some other strategy or method.

Apart from the presumption of mortgage or FANNIE MAN/FHA/HUD involvument and apart from the statutory notices (such as those about lead or environmental hazards) the reason a real estate contract or purchase process might seem or be held to be complicated might be because of lack of trust or safeguard pertinent to using an escrow company (i.e. being able to pay the seller without the seller taking your money without making out the warranty deed--there are obvious ways to do this without an escrow company).

Key factors to consider in a cash sale (and oddly it can be a challenge to find solid information on a cash sale): purchase price (that they will take U.S. currency, ping bong balls or the like), an agreement to sell, when title passes, whether there will be a down payment, how/when/where title will pass, how/when/where possession will pass, what personalty (i.e. non fixture stuff such as beds or a TV or nice rug) will be sold, maintaining evidence.

The "standard agreement" is typically crafted by attorneys and finds its 'home' in "legal land", "Residentia" or "Publica".

As typical I would direct folks that really want remedy/answers to one or more good books and one of the best law books on the topic that is over and above the pop-bookstore-fastfood-variety is:


Understanding Modern Real Estate Transactions, Second Edition [Paperback]
Jr. Alex M. Johnson (Author) (Amazon->) http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-...6718778&sr=8-7.

To reiterate: if one is seeking private or allodial title, a two-stage process might be best: (1) using a legal entity in the State/County to 'clear/settle' the "property claim"--cash sale. Then (2) after that taking it out of the box.

As for title insurance: it might be suffice to have a seller produce their current title insurance certificate with the abstract of title they got from their title company and then add that to your evidence pile (perhaps certified copies?). Also, getting a title search, an abstract of title and subsequently a title commitment (a title company saying "Based on our title search or other information we have, we will provide you title insurance.") rather than getting title insurance can be helpful for putting the property back up for 'standard sale'. (I might have a title search done, get copies of the seller's title paperwork and get a title company to write out a title commitment but NOT get title insurance--as in creating evidence in my favor).

Clearly: take away mortgage verbiage, title companies involvement or appraisal companies expecting $$$, its possible to greatly see how to simplify a 'real estate' transaction.

P.S. It is likely that the typical sale of a "parcels" is not sale of dirt and soil but of a 'right of occupation' or something of those lines.

"Cherokees didn't have written records"

Related: Pedis possessio, a book titled "Conquest By Law" (land fraud, deception conspiracy exposed even to the extent of hiding court cases).

http://www.amazon.com/Conquest-Law-D...6720295&sr=8-1