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Thread: Protection from statue seizure.

  1. #1

    Protection from statue seizure.

    Just bought a new 2016 motorcycle (off road)

    New laws say must register.
    I did not. Told the store it was leaving jurisdiction.
    Response from store was “no problem, had to ask”.

    Paper work I received from store was,
    1#
    MOTOR VEHICLE PURCHASE AGREEMENT
    It has WALTER SMITH typed in the box at top with VIN #, make and model etc
    Price list with totals and date.
    Store stamp signature, and mine being the two given.
    The store put SMITH because they never asked my last nor did I give it.
    And it is not the original that I signed. Its a copy.

    2#
    NEW VEHICLE INFORMATION STATEMENT.
    One page original document with stores blue wet ink signature.
    Has make, model, year, body type, colour,weight, etc.
    Has Manufacture's Name.
    Then a fill in the blank Purchaser info section.
    Name, address, telephone, zip code, etc.
    This is left blank, store didn't fill it in.

    3#
    Transfer/Tax Form
    Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia (ICBC)
    Four page document, (one original and three carbon copy)
    Wet ink signature first page goes to ICBC
    Second page goes to AGENT.
    Third page BUYER.
    Four page SELLER.
    This Form has blue wet ink store signature.
    Store filled it up by putting WATER SMITH and address.
    And there is a place for purchaser to sign.
    This document states at the very top of the form that in ten days you must complete and take to agent with ID and only use blue or black ink.


    So 1# is not a bill of sale but a contact agreement between the purchaser and seller.

    2# must be the Manufacture Statement of Origin.

    3# is the bait and switch. If one delivers then say good bye to 2#.

    looks like there is no bill of sale.

    Now I 'am wondering what is the best way to protect the bike from seizure by statute?

  2. #2
    hi walter,

    does anything indicate that it was "paid in full"? then maybe sell it to trusted friend via a BOS with the agreement to buy it back then do that with a BOS? or go back and ask for them to indicate that (paid in full) on your copy of #1

    whadya get?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by george View Post
    hi walter,

    does anything indicate that it was "paid in full"? then maybe sell it to trusted friend via a BOS with the agreement to buy it back then do that with a BOS? or go back and ask for them to indicate that (paid in full) on your copy of #1

    whadya get?
    I never noticed this before but where it has the "total" right under it has "partial payment" . In both lines it has same number. And then "balance" which is reading $0.00.
    Might read partial because of down payment programs others will take.

    I confirmed via telephone call recording that even new vehicles are registered to the province they are sent to because the business is registered in that province. Not the registration one does when they got to get insurance etc but its registered to the holding company. The record never gets expunged, they will only stop adding to the record once it leaves jurisdiction and have proof of it leaving.

    Called the insurance broker and asked them if I can register with out picture ID? Response was just as I figured, NO.
    So now I am writing a letter to the registration authority asking them if I can use the SOLB as ID to qualify. My guess will be NO. Looking for written conformation that I don't qualify for the service

    Name:  KTM.png
Views: 293
Size:  607.2 KB.

  4. #4
    well thats interesting that it says "total" but not "total payment" but does say "partial payment" and not "partial" only like it has "total" only. unless that was only your omission here?

    I like to see at least "Paid in Full" on the receipt when I buy something and I almost always have to ask for it to be written in nowadays and have never been refused after asking for it. usually its hand written at the last minute but that works for me.

    I actually add "Paid for with Lawful Money in Full" on my receipts to others for my goods or services since I deal in cash only. this is something Ive come up with on my own but I think it serves the purpose of "recording my demand".

    the first time I did this I put "Paid Lawful Money in Full on Demand" but my customer didnt get it and when I explained it to him, he still found it hard to swallow and it took some time to explain so I just leave out the words "on demand"

    why are you insuring it, no warranty? they dont require insurance or registration for dirtbikes here.

    great Promo add there "Best in Class" but that wouldnt happen to be because none of the other manufacturers currently offer a 350F? LOL!

    that is a nice machine for sure though! Ive not had any KTMs myself but too many other motos (Hondas) to count so I know how hard it is to wipe the smiles off your face after spending any amount of time on them.

  5. #5
    Protecting it from seizure by statute...would mean maintaining current and proper tags, etc., no?

    1st, I would have bought it in another jurisdiction than whatever one you don't want to claim.
    Last edited by ohiofoiarequest; 12-30-15 at 03:42 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by george View Post

    why are you insuring it, no warranty? they dont require insurance or registration for dirtbikes here.
    Off-Road Vehicle Act
    http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/.../statreg/14005


    great Promo add there "Best in Class" but that wouldnt happen to be because none of the other manufacturers currently offer a 350F? LOL!
    Only one making it is correct but KTM is cleaning up most category's right now.

    that is a nice machine for sure though! Ive not had any KTMs myself but too many other motos (Hondas) to count so I know how hard it is to wipe the smiles off your face after spending any amount of time on them.
    I was a Honda man also before this bike.
    ..........

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ohiofoiarequest View Post
    Protecting it from seizure by statute...would mean maintaining current and proper tags, etc., no?

    1st, I would have bought it in another jurisdiction than whatever one you don't want to claim.
    The new registration of off road vehicle is to access public rats.

    http://www.timescolonist.com/news/lo...icles-1.866196

    “Without the ability to clearly identify those vehicles there was a gap in the ability to enforce,” he said. “We’ll be counting on all the clubs and groups out there to also be our ears and eyes on the ground.”

    The agents want you the public to do their dirty work for them and all they have to do is write up the charge.
    Neighbour turning on neighour to make the Crown more money.
    That is not protection to me.

  8. #8
    Name:  ICBC respond.jpg
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    My ID doesn't qualify.(solb) hahaha
    So does that mean I can't exchange my right into a privilege?

    I like the second paragraph.
    "Customers"
    So does that mean I am not one of your customers for not providing usufruct ID?
    If I am not a customer then ICBC is acting as a third party interloper.


    It also states that transferring into the NAME is not the same as registering in to the NAME.
    So who's NAME is the vehicle in if ID is need to TRANSFER it? Remember its a new vehicle.
    Has to be theirs.

    If so then they are liable for it.
    I paid for the equity side of the vehicle as stated in the Purchasers Agreement.
    Can I buy the title side?
    If ICBC holds title then what consideration to the contract have they given?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by walter View Post
    Just bought a new 2016 motorcycle (off road)

    New laws say must register.
    I did not. Told the store it was leaving jurisdiction.
    Response from store was “no problem, had to ask”.

    Paper work I received from store was,
    1#
    MOTOR VEHICLE PURCHASE AGREEMENT
    It has WALTER SMITH typed in the box at top with VIN #, make and model etc
    Price list with totals and date.
    Store stamp signature, and mine being the two given.
    The store put SMITH because they never asked my last nor did I give it.
    And it is not the original that I signed. Its a copy.

    2#
    NEW VEHICLE INFORMATION STATEMENT.
    One page original document with stores blue wet ink signature.
    Has make, model, year, body type, colour,weight, etc.
    Has Manufacture's Name.
    Then a fill in the blank Purchaser info section.
    Name, address, telephone, zip code, etc.
    This is left blank, store didn't fill it in.

    3#
    Transfer/Tax Form
    Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia (ICBC)
    Four page document, (one original and three carbon copy)
    Wet ink signature first page goes to ICBC
    Second page goes to AGENT.
    Third page BUYER.
    Four page SELLER.
    This Form has blue wet ink store signature.
    Store filled it up by putting WATER SMITH and address.
    And there is a place for purchaser to sign.
    This document states at the very top of the form that in ten days you must complete and take to agent with ID and only use blue or black ink.

    So 1# is not a bill of sale but a contact agreement between the purchaser and seller.

    2# must be the Manufacture Statement of Origin.

    3# is the bait and switch. If one delivers then say good bye to 2#.

    looks like there is no bill of sale.

    Now I 'am wondering what is the best way to protect the bike from seizure by statute?
    A key issue is if the store filled in the information it was your responsibility to is correct it. Likely they got it off the SOLB. The requirement to register is likely for residents. If you are not a resident and live somewhere that does not require registration then it might be sufficient to send them a Notice of Sale or a Bill of Sale showing sale, transfer or assignment to a non-resident.

    IMHO, one really has to be one way or another and fully know what one is doing. Fence sitting or dwelling in that border zone can be dangerous--sharp wires that cut.

    Re: customer
    Customer is the term for someone granted a royal warrant.

    Re: ID
    If your ID doesn't show you to be a resident, that is likely the key issue. Also, they seem to simply indicate that they want two forms of ID. In the USA at the U.S. post office, an insurance card can suffice as additional ID. A credit card could also suffice. From a very learned and informed perspective I add: certificates of title and driver's licenses tend to be restricted to residents of a state/province. Meaning the ownership or suretyship for the MOTOR VEHICLE VESSEL is a state/provincial office. Now it is possible to register through the normal process and maintain arm's length. As I have mentioned on other threads, the SF97 issued by the U.S. government (GSA) when an automobile is sold at auction is equivalent to an MSO and it is a very interesting process to study (see military auction forums) because U.S. government vehicles are sold and are treated as vehicles NEVER registered and Form SF97 is equivalent to an MSO.

    If you say you are taking it out of jurisdiction, they might presume that you are taking it to a jurisdiction where registration is required. If you don't live in any such jurisdiction IT WILL BE UP TO YOU TO PROVIDE THE NECESSARY PAPERWORK that a foreign DMV would provide. Take a look at Missouri's Notice of Sale.

    Also, even if they did not provide you a bill of sale, you can make up a certificate or affidavit of ownership.

    P.S. "Autoplan" sounds very 1984.
    Last edited by allodial; 02-04-16 at 03:13 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    A key issue is if the store filled in the information it was your responsibility to is correct it. Likely they got it off the SOLB. The requirement to register is likely for residents. If you are not a resident and live somewhere that does not require registration then it might be sufficient to send them a Notice of Sale or a Bill of Sale showing sale, transfer or assignment to a non-resident.
    The store only filled in their sections and left the ones for me to fill up blank. The store never saw or asked for ID.
    "The requirement to register is likely for residents."
    Thanks for pointing that out. I forgot about that.
    All their ID requirements are for residents.


    I noticed in their wording that they say a "Canadian Driver License" is valid ID.
    Yet there is no such thing. All DL are provincial issued. Canada does not issue DL.


    Criminal Code of Canada

    Defects and Objections
    794 (1) No exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification prescribed by law is required to be set out or negatived, as the case may be, in an information.

    (2) The burden of proving that an exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification prescribed by law operates in favour of the defendant is on the defendant, and the prosecutor is not required, except by way of rebuttal, to prove that the exception, exemption, proviso, excuse or qualification does not operate in favour of the defendant, whether or not it is set out in the information.

    R.S., c. C-34, s. 730.



    This is the point I am trying to make here about qualifying.
    If I don't qualify then I can use that as a lawful excuse.
    Then the burden of proof falls back on the crown to rebut that I do qualify.
    How can they do that if their ID is not being used by me?

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