The concept of representation, people, things.

[Gavilan]

I am not having much success with finding research into representation and abstract thinking, but there is more information ready available regarding symbolism. This is a very interesting paper:
http://www.vonsteuben.org/ourpages/a...%20Culture.pdf

http://marxist-theory-of-art.blogspo...2-animals.html

[David Merrill]

That brings to mind the basis of the entire guilt trip, building the Gospel of Pragmatism. Abraham and Sarah were half-siblings. Additionally Abraham allowed Sarah to banish Hagar in negligent homicide, resulting in Ishmael surviving to father a more genetically sound bloodline as twelve Arabic nations.

These may be treated as historical but I prefer the symbology.

[george]

I am not having much success with finding research into representation and abstract thinking, but there is more information ready available regarding symbolism. This is a very interesting paper:
http://www.vonsteuben.org/ourpages/a...%20Culture.pdf

http://marxist-theory-of-art.blogspo...2-animals.html

getting "page not found" from the first link.

from the second link youve posted:

Lacking the advantage of intense intervention from a symbol-using species, our own ancestors had to make the leap to using symbols for themselves. It was probably an uneven process, with flashes of symbol use emerging and dying here and there before it finally became a universal human trait. How it might have arisen is the subject of our next post.

we were just discussing this on Davids latest thread:

In the writings of Israel the ability to read is from one of the Fallen Angels, Semjaza and his followers brought things to man like forging iron, currency etc. Semjaza is better known as Lucifer - who got his start in the Book of Enoch.

but somehow, from following your links ive ended up snipe hunting LOL! or is it snark hunting?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snark_%28Lewis_Carroll%29

Im keen to find out what Lewis Carroll was on about with this!


thanks

[Gavilan]

Hello, george!

Been tied up with some heavy reading. Here is a link to a phenomenal site that has given me even more to leads:

http://www.mindserpent.com/American_...y/sitemap.html

http://www.mindserpent.com

Wish you are well and enjoying life.

[george]

Hello, george!

Been tied up with some heavy reading. Here is a link to a phenomenal site that has given me even more to leads:

http://www.mindserpent.com/American_...y/sitemap.html

http://www.mindserpent.com

Wish you are well and enjoying life.

thanks for your well wishes and i express the same to you and yours!

wow! that URL looked familiar but it wasnt unless there has been a lot of changes to the site. that is a whole library of some really interesting books and stuff. I started at the beginning before seeing all that, it would take a lifetime to digest at my reading pace.

from the begging it starts off in agreement with the "out of africa" theory which i dont subscribe to but hey, its all hearsay anyway so I wont let that common subscription stop me from reading more from there.

thanks for posting that.

edit: wow! someone has really put some time and effort into that site Gavlin! I'll be spending some hours there for sure.

[Gavilan]

Amazing!

I wasn't expecting on finding out my answer so soon, that is, that I suspected only a few are privileged to think in the abstract.

Here I have come across my answer:

http://www.mindserpent.com/American_...Hall/sta04.htm
WHEN confronted with a problem involving the use of the reasoning faculties, individuals of strong intellect keep their poise, and seek to reach a solution by obtaining facts bearing upon the question. Those of immature mentality, on the other hand, when similarly confronted, are overwhelmed. While the former may be qualified to solve the riddle of their own destiny, the latter must be led like a flock of sheep and taught in simple language. They depend almost entirely upon the ministrations of the shepherd. The Apostle Paul said that these little ones must be fed with milk, but that meat is the food of strong men. Thoughtlessness is almost synonymous with childishness, while thoughtfulness is symbolic of maturity.

There are, however, but few mature minds in the world; and thus it was that the philosophic-religious doctrines of the pagans were divided to meet the needs of these two fundamental groups of human intellect--one philosophic, the other incapable of appreciating the deeper mysteries of life. To the discerning few were revealed the esoteric, or spiritual, teachings, while the unqualified many received only the literal, or exoteric, interpretations. In order to make simple the great truths of Nature and the abstract principles of natural law, the vital forces of the universe were personified, becoming the gods and goddesses of the ancient mythologies. While the ignorant multitudes brought their offerings to the altars of Priapus and Pan (deities representing the procreative energies), the wise recognized in these marble statues only symbolic concretions of great abstract truths.

http://www.mindserpent.com/American_...v1b2.htm#trust
As all ancient Heathen nations had their mysteries or secret doctrines, which the priests carefully kept from the knowledge of the vulgar, and which they only communicated to a select number of persons whom they thought they could safely trust; and as the Jewish religion was anciently the same as the Persian, it will not be thought extraordinary, that, like the Persians, it should have its secret doctrines.

Front this page http://www.mindserpent.com/American_.../epilogue.html

[Gavilan]

edit: wow! someone has really put some time and effort into that site Gavlin! I'll be spending some hours there for sure.

George, a treasure trove indeed!

[shikamaru]

I have been searching for a treatise on "representation" of people, things, etc.

It seem that you must have the ability to think in the "abstract" to comprehend that people can be represented as well as things. Michael Joseph has made excellent points that you must have a fundamental comprehension of trusts, and how trusts are derived from relationships. I think that a to understand relationships, you must also have to be able to understand that you can have a relationship through an agent, and as a principal, that agent represents you.

If you have any leads, please let me know.

The terms 'fungible' and 'fungibility' may lend some clues in to understanding of representation.

Voters, rights, duties, and obligations are all fungible.

To represent someone could also be a party to an agreement or controversy.

A few jural relationships to consider (the list below is not exhaustive):

Principal - Agent
Patron - Client
Master - Slave
Master - Servant
Employee - Employer
Principal - Surety
Obligee - Obligor
Mortgagee - Mortgagor
Promisee - Promisor
Beneficiary - Trustee
Trustee - Trustor

All the above have to do with obligations and duties which can be transferred.
The parties are fungible. That which is fungible is capable of substitution, a placeholder. Substitution is a key element of representation.

[David Merrill]

The terms 'fungible' and 'fungibility' may lend some clues in to understanding of representation.

Voters, rights, duties, and obligations are all fungible.

To represent someone could also be a party to an agreement or controversy.

A couple party relationships to consider:

Principal - Agent
Patron - Client
Master - Slave
Master - Servant
Employee - Employer
Principal - Surety
Obligee - Obligor
Mortgagee - Mortgagor
Promisor - Promisee

All the above have to do with obligations and duties which can be transferred.
The parties are fungible. That which is fungible is capable of substitution, a placeholder. Substitution is a key element of representation.

Thank you! I enjoyed that.


Urantia Book - State Development.

[shikamaru]

Thank you! I enjoyed that.


Urantia Book - State Development.

I have to give credit to palani from another forum for the idea.

https://books.google.com/books?id=W-...ngible&f=false

From another treatise, not the one above, things include men, but men with rights are persons thus not things.