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Thread: The East India Company: The Original Corporate Raiders

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    So begs the question, from a neutral observer-spectator perspective, what might any of this have to do with the actual identity of the harlot in the Book of Revelations and not just the identify of the harlot but of her children or daughters (ala Book of Revelations)? How do events which play out after the 1700s relate to the rise of or permitting of the proliferation of speculative religion?
    Gnosticism/Humanism rears it's ugly head again...

    from this source

    Thomas Harris (1967/1973)

    I would like to suggest that a reasonable approximation of this objective moral order, or of ultimate
    truth is that persons are important in that they are all bound together in a universal relatedness
    which transcends their own personal existence. Is this a reasonable postulate? The most helpful
    analytic concept in attempting to answer this question is the concept of comparative difficulties. It
    is difficult to believe that persons are important, and it is also difficult to believe they are not…. We
    cannot prove they are important. We have only the faith to believe they are, because of the greater
    difficulty of believing they are not. (p. 254)


    On the surface such a statement on the value of humans suggests a high level of morality. In
    reality, it lacks all virtue since there is no longer any external ?measuring stick, no objective law
    which determines such absolute definitions. All of history recounts what happens to persons
    when subjective feelings are used as the ?final solution? in defining the worth of individuals.
    Adoration degenerates to mere respect and finally to contempt with its logical and awful
    consequences. Jonas (1958) lays the blame for such anthropological degeneracy at the feet of
    Gnostic teaching:

    Among the reproaches which Plotinus raises against the Gnostics… is that they lack a theory of
    virtue; and he maintains that it is their contempt of the world that prevents them from having one….
    Their doctrine… holds in contempt all the laws down here and virtue which has risen among men
    from the beginning of time, and puts temperance to ridicule. (p. 266)


    At its worst, humanism is seen as human nature possessing a core of evil; at its best, humanism
    can only generate a pseudo-value system since the formulation of values is simply a subjective
    experience with some sort of governmental entity as the final social arbitrator. But when these
    forms of governance arbitrate, it tends to bring out this inherently evil human core rather than the
    hoped for idealistic peace so sought after by the humanist. The end result of this is a subjective
    subjectivity, a sort of sophisticated solipsism or, more classically, an existential view of reality.
    The existential, nihilistic, humanistic world-view then brings us to the door of Fourth Force
    Psychology. For the mystical religions of the East claim to hold an answer for the ultimate
    humanistic dilemma.


    and further...

    The religions of the West are not sufficiently esoteric to be included in a ?science of psychology,
    a concept which must be maintained for psychology to remain credible in this culture. Thus a
    ?fourth force in psychology has emerged to provide this ?science of the soul with a tie to the
    religions of the East. Note how the various Eastern religions of today try to pass themselves off
    as scientific (Yoga, faddish Transcendental Meditation, and Zen Buddhism) in the same way that
    the Gnostics who were quasi-scientific for their age tried to be identified as religious. Those who
    are encouraging this merging of science and religion describe the trend in this way:

    An integration of science and eastern religion is clearly emerging. If science and religion are so
    broadly similar, and not arbitrarily limited in their domains, they should at sometime clearly
    converge. I believe this confluence is inevitable. For they both represent man's efforts to
    understand his universe and must ultimately be dealing with the same substance. As we
    understand more in each realm, the two must grow together… But converge they must, and
    through this should come new strength for both. (Townes, 1976, pp. 10-19)


    The Gnostic influence here is unmistakable. The password used to gain entrance into our
    sophisticated scientific age by those wearing the cloak of religion is quantum physics. Emerging
    from this is a new psychology, Fourth Force Psychology, which is represented as a ?science of
    consciousness (Pelletier, 1978, pp. 32-66). This is exactly what the ancients experienced as
    metaphysics (Aristotle) or speculative physics, the same concept that was used in the earlier
    discussion of nature philosophy.

    Therefore psychology has come full circle from speculative religion (the Eastern mysteries)
    through speculative philosophy (the Greeks), speculative science (the Gnostics), speculations
    concerning human nature (dualism), speculative philosophy again (Freudian and Jungian
    psychoanalysis), speculative human nature again (humanistic psychology), speculative science
    again (quantum physics), and finally to speculative religion (the Eastern mysteries).
    The underlying problem to this circular dilemma is how humanity has handled the Gospel.
    This was the problem of the Gnostics in specific and humankind as a whole both before Christ
    and after. When the Resurrection is considered the central theme in Christian doctrine (I
    Corinthians 15) the distinction is clear between what Christ taught and experienced and what the
    Gnostics, Eastern mystics, and modern metaphysicists speculate. It is the case of the
    Resurrection versus a belief in reincarnation.

    Reincarnation is implied in Gnosticism and certainly represents the basis of Eastern
    religions. Life becomes extremely insignificant to the Gnostic and the Eastern mystic, but to the
    Christian life is the basis of resurrection. Life is real and the world is real. We begin at
    conception but we die in the end, at death. It is only the Resurrection of Christ that gives life. All
    is not an illusion; we are not an emanation; we do not reincarnate or transmigrate. Life is
    important and, indeed, it is all that we have.

  2. #12
    Training in virtue and, in particular, the training of moral courage was an absolute necessity and it was held to be of paramount importance. Owing to lack of time, One cannot enlarge upon this today, but there was a conviction that knowledge can only benefit the world when what can be done by a man who knows, is done only by one who is good. However improbable that seems to people who look on earlier ages as barbaric and try thinking that nowadays we have made such wonderful progress — so wonderful, in fact, that thousands are bathed in blood every week since in Gods name we are trusting good men like Cortez Columbus State led by those who had undergone the moral training and discipline spreading the Doctrine .The modern age is not adapted for directly applying such a principle. Just imagine how such a principle might be realized today when everyone says what he knows as soon as possible — or even has it published — and no one can prevent it. It would be illusory to think that anything, social institution or whatever, could stop it. Today is the day of publicity. What, then, must replace this older principle of only allowing men who had undergone moral discipline to attain Knowledge? It must be replaced with the assurance that the imparted knowledge itself must contain a certain force that brings forth good through itself, actually and really to bring forth of itself what is good. Spiritual Standing is a good knowledge of what holding a dollar bill in a heathens face without the knowing in God I trust.Commercial Corruption of Spiritual Standing the Americas is a great place for hypocrites on both sides .Heads rolled before european exploitation just the doctrine was vigilance yet paganising. Rejected as inquisitive customs the Spanish inquisition hits a mirroring.Who Creamed your Corn.

  3. #13
    That touches on a point that I discovered in high school contemplating life with my buddies.

    Before the phone and TV I would have relied on somebody, usually a stranger for news about what was happening where he had been. - From wherever he had come traveling. I would of course repeat what he had said and this "gossip" would become news. If he lied to me, I would lie to others. If somebody had lied to him, he would be lying to me in turn...

    So it seems that a man was actually held to a higher standard about his honor and word back in the "crude" time of the past, of which you speak. The day of social media emotionalism was preceded by a Western Bible Belt (Colorado Springs) wave of Prophets and then a spasmic Patriot Guru named Tim TURNER (in prison until 2027 I hear). It really amazed me how one named Monte JUDAH made some prophecies, then admitted to his following he was a false prophet when they failed, and still had the exact same following. But what really got me was watching all the false prophets during that charismatic phase just ignore or somehow rationalize that the transform through which they were interpreting information was simply something other than the Holy Spirit of God. And the congregants would ignorantly just brush it off too.
    Last edited by David Merrill; 04-21-16 at 07:54 PM.

  4. #14
    That is why the primary instruction for discerning the spirits was a question as to whether Jesus/Y'shua the Anointed came in the flesh or not. Because to deny that would be to deny the incarnation, death, resurrection and ascension altogether. Clearly there are those who hold or who have held to the notion of only a 'wraith like' or 'spirit form' having come or, alternatively, the idea that he never came ever. Falling for mere manifestations of power or psychic experience isn't sufficient.

    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. --1 John 4:3 (KJV)
    So that entire camp that denies he and the Messiah ever came is described by reference (they are waiting for a different Messiah--whether they call him "Christ" or "He" or "Him" is irrelevant). Could there be such a thing as subscribers to a proverbial Worthless Shepherd function?
    Last edited by allodial; 04-21-16 at 10:04 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    Could there be such a thing as subscribers to a proverbial Worthless Shepherd function?

    This could go somewhere and get right back to the Topic because I have integrated the Worthless Shepherd prophecy into my interpretation of the Book of Mark. The attached rendition is suggested by The Nazarene Gospel Restored and is a slight rearrangement of Zechariah verses so to explain how the Worthless Shepherd Prophecy effected the events at the Last Supper.

    In context or alone like I quoted you, I am getting nowhere matching up a "Worthless Shepherd function" with your point. Albeit I am intrigued. My habit is to find reproducible mental models (math) and apply the math to discover useful revelation behind otherwise encrypted parable; dispelling ILLUSION.


    ILLUSION

    1) parable
    2) myth
    3) fable
    4) hallucination
    5) legend


    The list goes on and on but I like categories of FIVE.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #16
    My take on math: symbols for expressing and record patterns that we might observe. As in who rejected Jesus/Y'shua perhaps became or become subscribers to a 'Worthless Shepherd function' it keeps producing predictable results: misery for subscriber and even for those they might adversely affect. Whether its misery from searching for grandeur and riches in Amway or misery of seeking liberty in black magic only to be caught up in dark Karmic cycles and so forth.

    “And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.” 1 Samuel 8:7 (KJV)
    See also: Bar Kokhba revolt (or Zechariah 11 Fulfilled). Generally: adultery and indirection.

    ***

    Bar-Kokhba is said to have severely persecuted Christians who "did not deny Jesus as the Messiah and blaspheme him."...

    Convinced that Eleazar, Bar-Kokhba’s right hand man, wanted to surrender Bethar, the city in which Bar-Kokhba put forth his last stand, Bar-Kokhba kicked the priest with his foot and killed him. Immediately thereafter in fulfillment of Leviticus 24:19-22, a heavenly voice is recorded to have been heard quoting Zechariah 11:17: “Woe to the worthless shepherd that leaveth the flock! The sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye! Thou hast paralyzed the arm of Israel and blinded their right eye; therefore shall thy arm wither and thy right eye grow dim!”[16] The paralyzing of the arm of Israel mentioned above may be illustrated by the fact that Bar-Kokbha required the soldiers of his army to bite off their right fingers in order to prove their loyalty to him.[17]

    Bethar was soon captured by the Romans and Bar-Kokhba was killed on the ninth day of Av–the very same day in which the first and second Jewish temples had been destroyed. A Cuthean then brought Bar-Kokhba’s head to Hadrian. Hadrian then ordered the man to bring him his body. When the Cuthean returned, he found a serpent wrapped around Bar-Kokhba’s neck. When the man relayed this story, Hadrian replied, “If his God had not slain him who could have overcome him?”
    Interestingly enough, it was Hadrian that renamed Judea (to) Palestine (as in Philistines ..Dagon).
    Last edited by allodial; 04-22-16 at 08:05 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  7. #17
    ones handshake is honoured only if your a Man of your word the handshake is symbolic of some trust and a healthy fear of God and his internal word. Material handshake spiritual handshake two hands around someones neck is not a legal handshake without lawful excuse . Its A miracle Christ never shook hands with the Church Moses tapping a ROCK and the BROAD at the well asking Christ how he is going to help without a bucket both rivers of life Moses people thirst a burning knowledge /and a rock questioned. Christ what Rock you stand with or the one the church is hiding under is just been questioned with Moses as the Church we all thirst for some handshake it hides the fear of God as agreement between men or a deal in the eyes of God is just materialistic and its the word thats spiritual .No blessing required no swearing .Deals are as old as the paperwork .AZTECS and political power came from KERNEL CORN THE harvesting hearts thats a church thing SEPHARDIC HEBREWS were no match for CATHOLIC exploitation and expulsions when your Crown couldn't pay its debts it literally ripped a beating heart out of Any merchant mariner or those banking merchants of Venice MEXICO VIA Holland the VENETIANS WOODEN SHIPS NOT SHOES and the rest is justified handshakes .Discovering America is joining our underestimated past.Truth is just a regional bank where we store blame. one church at a time if offensive and defensive were just a handshake it would be just so much less to remember. If its written its just hidden within the words. in the beginning WAS without WAS in who's being or in what beginning . A happy being needs a tragedy of wordsmiths or a smile needs a wipe.musings or muskets.Gringo

  8. #18
    My take on math: symbols for expressing and record patterns that we might observe. As in who rejected Jesus/Y'shua perhaps became or become subscribers to a 'Worthless Shepherd function' it keeps producing predictable results: misery for subscriber and even for those they might adversely affect.
    What is mathematics, Really? by Rubin HERSH clarifies - The study of reproducible mental models. Which is what you said, as I read it.

    You took me to revisit these two 1928 Century Magazine articles and be reminded that Jesus is Idumean in the multicultural setting of Israel. Edomite, presuming my take true that Jesus was the bastard son of young Archelaus HEROD, son of Idumean Jew Herod the Great. This article seems bereft of the distinction between Jews and Israelites as in the Books Ezra and Nehemiah. Without factoring in Nebuchadnezzar's mental capture I doubt the article will suffice for my purposes this wonderful High Sabbath morning.

    Jesus being Edomite adds a new lens to a mixed reaction to public coronation.


    Mar 11:27 And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,
    Mar 11:28 And say unto him, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?
    Mar 11:29 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I will also ask of you one question, and answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things.
    Mar 11:30 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.
    John, the King's (Archelaus - Antipas and Philip were Tetrarchs) Prophet had crowned Jesus from Administrative Headquarters in Exile - the "wilderness" East of the Jordan.

    Quote Originally Posted by xparte View Post
    ones handshake is honoured only if your a Man of your word the handshake is symbolic of some trust and a healthy fear of God and his internal word. Material handshake spiritual handshake two hands around someones neck is not a legal handshake without lawful excuse . Its A miracle Christ never shook hands with the Church Moses tapping a ROCK and the BROAD at the well asking Christ how he is going to help without a bucket both rivers of life Moses people thirst a burning knowledge /and a rock questioned. Christ what Rock you stand with or the one the church is hiding under is just been questioned with Moses as the Church we all thirst for some handshake it hides the fear of God as agreement between men or a deal in the eyes of God is just materialistic and its the word thats spiritual .No blessing required no swearing .Deals are as old as the paperwork .AZTECS and political power came from KERNEL CORN THE harvesting hearts thats a church thing SEPHARDIC HEBREWS were no match for CATHOLIC exploitation and expulsions when your Crown couldn't pay its debts it literally ripped a beating heart out of Any merchant mariner or those banking merchants of Venice MEXICO VIA Holland the VENETIANS WOODEN SHIPS NOT SHOES and the rest is justified handshakes .Discovering America is joining our underestimated past.Truth is just a regional bank where we store blame. one church at a time if offensive and defensive were just a handshake it would be just so much less to remember. If its written its just hidden within the words. in the beginning WAS without WAS in who's being or in what beginning . A happy being needs a tragedy of wordsmiths or a smile needs a wipe.musings or muskets.Gringo

    Thank you for walking me through some symbols I have not tried applying for some years now. Moses tapping the rock, to bring forth water - why not just render that action inert? How in the world would it bring forth water? By Moses' WILL and WORD? I want that magic wand!

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  9. #19
    Several issues:

    1. most if not all non-Judah tribes of Israel (save Benjamin at Galilee) were most likely in exile or scattered or the like at the time Jesus arrived (Judah and Israel as kingdoms had separated and were on different 'judgment clocks');
    2. the idea of any organic Judahite being in exile at the time with John in the wilderness may have been because the Edomites didnt' want anything to do with the original doctrines (see #9);
    3. the notion of Y'shua/Jesus being the son of an Edomite-Judahite is highly questionable (see #7);
    4. the notion of Y'shua/Jesus being clearly non-Edomite makes more sense as to why the Edomite-Judahite factions may have been against him.
    5. I recall analysis pointing to Y'shua/Jesus having been hanging out with the Benjaminites and the Essenes in northern Judea.
    6. there are those who assert that those called for the death and crucifixion of Y'shua seem to have identified themselves with Essau/Edom by admitting that they had never been in captivity which might be true of Edom/Essau's or even Ishmaelites rather than being true of Israel (Judah-inclusive);
    7. its important to avoid blurring the distinctions between Jesus son of Julius Pantera and the Y'shua the Anointed;
    8. The saints aren't referred to as being gentiles in the Bible but as "formerly gentiles";
    9. Edomites were incorporated into Judah under John Hyrcanus, even if Israel or Judah ceased to see distinction, the Edomites may have maintained distinction of themselves;
    10. Syncretism ala Darius may have not necessarily been a good thing.

    When, Herod, the son of the Idumean, Antipater "received the kingdom, he slew all the members of this Sanhedrin" Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews
    Last edited by allodial; 04-23-16 at 09:12 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    Several issues:

    1. most if not all non-Judah tribes of Israel (save Benjamin at Galilee) were most likely in exile or scattered or the like at the time Jesus arrived.
    2. the idea of any organic Judahite being in exile at the time with John in the wilderness may have been because the Edomites didnt' want anything to do with the original doctrines;
    3. the notion of Y'shua/Jesus being the son of an Edomite-Judahite is highly questionable;
    4. the notion of Y'shua/Jesus being clearly non-Edomite makes more sense as to why the Edomite-Judahite factions may have been against him.
    5. I recall analysis pointing to Y'shua/Jesus having been hanging out with the Benjaminites and the Essenes in northern Judea.
    6. there are those who assert that those called for the death and crucifixion of Y'shua clearly identified themselves with Essau/Edom by admitting that they had never been in captivity which might be true of Edom/Essau's or the Edom-Cain lines rather than being true of Israel/Jacob;
    7. its important to avoid blurring the distinctions between Jesus son of Julius Pantera and the Y'shua the Anointed;
    8. The saints aren't referred to as being gentiles in the Bible but as "formerly gentiles".

    Thank you Allodial. That is all great food for thought.

    I believe some of the "issues" are resolved by separating out Edomites and Jews. This might be why young Archelaus HEROD, an Edomite not a Jew was so disgraced when he got young maiden Mary (BRAIDER) MAGDALENE pregnant. Here we find that Jesus was the bastard son between an Edomite and Judah - which could mean either a Jew, or an Israelite. There are two kinds of people of the Eretz, the Land in Israel. There are Israelites with captured minds, the Jews. And there are Israelites who stayed working and living the land, who never went into the Babylonian captivity. After seventy years the Jews returned, fought for the Temple Mount for eleven years and won, capturing the Temple Mount. Then in 50 BCE Rome appointed Herod the GREAT on the Temple Mount.

    This is what I was reminded of in the articles about Paul. The other article about Idumean culture reminded me how multicultured Israel was at the time of Jesus.

    My idea about John being a Prophet is from the Gospel of Mark. That he was a Levite is clear too. I deduce that typically the King of Israel had a traditional prophet. After some thirty years in exile, Archelaus had a slam-dunk conviction of the Pretender (Tetrarch Antipas) in idolatry with the other Tetrarch's (Philip) wife Herodias. - For which John apparently voiced the accusation, for one reason or another.

    Through the affiliation and adoption of the Bastard, it would seem that politically, Jesus ascended to the throne. This is why I quote Mark chapter 11.

    It would seem I cannot tie this directly back to the thread topic, but it usually happens from sleep related contemplation. I look forward to explaining it in terms of the "issues" you have brought up.

    Most excellent!!

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