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Thread: Business Owners and Lawful Money Tax Returns

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    The question is how much withholdings are you paying?
    There are no withholdings, I have to pay at the end of the year or quarterly.

    Possibly you are not paying any Withholdings. Then you don't have to File because you have no taxable income. However it is turning up wise to file, include evidence you Demanded lawful money. This keeps the IRS agent from assessing you on the hearsay of others, like your clients/employers/bosses.
    Yes, that's what I'm asking. I have "mostly" redeemed lawful money, but not all the time. I have been caught here and there where I had to do an electronic transfer and was unable to get the demand. I do not have the demand on my sig card at the credit union where I handle my affairs. I put the demand on the checks as they come in. Yes, I need to get that changed but it's not changed for 2010.

    So I have some FRN liability.

    So your saying that if you ONLY use lawful money then you shouldn't even file?

    And if you do file, as a business, you have to list expenses in order to determine net profit.

    If you list expenses with no taxable income, then you have a loss, and they want to send you
    a check, at least at first. Do it for more than a couple years and they'll audit you.

    If you are a business that is a corp or an LLC, then you have to get an EIN (employee id number)
    from the IRS so they can send you your quarterly declaration forms.

    So what, you have an LLC, you don't make any money but have expenses?

    Or tell them you're not in business, and lie?

    I just want to get my head around this. I appreciate everyone coming in on this to give me
    a hand figuring this out. You're really making it all sound very simple, but the reality is different
    when you're filling out the return line by line.

    I would really like to know if anyone here is actually running a business, and filing in this manner.
    Last edited by Axe; 04-22-11 at 02:28 AM.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Joseph View Post
    I will boil it down and make it extremely simple. If the State gave issue by its laws or action to the Business, then the Business is Cestui Que Trust. You, sign things for that business.

    Everything you sign for that business might have the word groupings "demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411". It is all up to you, as Operator or Trafficker or Driver.

    The rest is just obfuscation and leads to confusion and gives a lot of lawyers and CPA's and book-keepers jobs.
    Thanks MJ. Sorry for being "slow".

  3. #13
    The problem I'm having is if I only declare the amount of money that I wasn't able to apply my demand to, I come out way negative (loss) after expenses.
    I think it is finally starting to sink in. We must be extraordinarily frustrating - so slow.

    Now I get it. This is about reconciling your books with a Zero Return - you need to calculate your books accurately to calculate the City Sales Tax.


    Processing...

    The presumption is that the City Tax Assessor is in coordinated intel with Federal and State.

    The Federal is the only assessment that matters. The State assessment is based in Federal.

    Figure the City assessment accurately according to tradition because you are paying for the municipal commercial protection district - METRO organization. It has nothing to do with redeeming lawful money. The police and protection coverture are paid for by a percentage of your profits. It is a different priesthood. It operates within lawful money, in your case while the next shop over operates without lawful money - the elastic currency of the Fed. The tradition is the same.



    Regards,

    David Merrill.
    Last edited by David Merrill; 04-22-11 at 03:11 AM.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    I think it is finally starting to sink in. We must be extraordinarily frustrating - so slow.

    Now I get it. This is about reconciling your books with a Zero Return - you need to calculate your books accurately to calculate the City Sales Tax.
    Well that too. But there's still the matter of being "self employed" on the federal tax
    return, having expenses, but no profit... ever.

    How does that fly long term?

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Well that too. But there's still the matter of being "self employed" on the federal tax
    return, having expenses, but no profit... ever.

    How does that fly long term?
    Only report the taxable income - which is likely less than the threshold amount (what? Is it still $6K?). So you would only report that in the event you want your withholdings back, or you want to be heard over the hearsay of clients/customers/bosses.


    P.S. Possibly you want to be heard in accord with spot checks by City Tax Assessors and with your bank's books.
    Last edited by David Merrill; 04-22-11 at 03:34 AM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    Figure the City assessment accurately according to tradition because you are paying for the municipal commercial protection district - METRO organization. It has nothing to do with redeeming lawful money. The police and protection coverture are paid for by a percentage of your profits. It is a different priesthood. It operates within lawful money, in your case while the next shop over operates without lawful money - the elastic currency of the Fed. The tradition is the same.
    Axe, don't mean to hijack but David brought up a good point where I find myself a little unsure of the operation. METRO org operates within lawful money? Does that include issues of property tax on real estate? I think so. The township where I live claims that property taxes pays for school, fire and police. I thought it was the purchasing of property with FRN's that allowed the local's to charge a property tax as it extends the lien the whole way down to the local govt. David can you expand on that a little how it operates within lawful money before I gum up the works with alot of cross talk?

    Thank you
    MC

  7. #17
    I think the privacy issue is making this difficult. I am approaching this as the presumption the business is a downtown storefront. My experience matches it up to a Pharmacopia on Boulder and Tejon a few years ago. The owner got into an argument with a couple city tax assessors whether vitamins are food and it went downhill from there. He is out of business.

    I find the whole banishment business with Motla68 wonderful, almost like I want to take credit for calculating the whole episode ahead of time. The fellow is doing some amazing breakthrough with redemption of lawful money on municipal charge coupons - Tickets - but I am referring to his inspiration regarding that old Sheriff Agreement that he put forward back when he first registered - Say Goodbye to Property Taxes?

    Regardless of the exact scenario on this thread - the business itself - I am addressing what The Problem is according to the opening post. Not running a similar business, I have been missing something in my mental models; the fact that a Zero Return does not reflect accurate bookkeeping practices for other purposes. I would not recommend that one keep two sets of books - cooking the books!

    So I am now integrating the untried practice (except with Motla68 but he seemed to think it a perpetual agreement even though the fee was calculated for only one year) of picking the menu items you want for your downtown storefront - fire and police protection; communications 911 service and maybe a couple others like Chamber of Commerce underwriting, Sheriff's Business Association etc. - and figuring up your personal Mill Tax, per capita from last year's CAFR. Then you collect and publish your receipt for that donation and renew it annually and substitute that receipt for protection traditionally covered by city sales taxes done by a percentage of profits - including protection from harassing City Tax Assessors!!


    Interesting though - this website is a great probe.


    Regards,

    David Merrill.
    Last edited by David Merrill; 04-22-11 at 02:39 PM.

  8. #18
    Senior Member
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    Mar 2011
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    Within the confines of my own skin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    I think the privacy issue is making this difficult. I am approaching this as the presumption the business is a downtown storefront. My experience matches it up to a Pharmacopia on Boulder and Tejon a few years ago. The owner got into an argument with a couple city tax assessors whether vitamins are food and it went downhill from there. He is out of business.

    I find the whole banishment business with Motla68 wonderful, almost like I want to take credit for calculating the whole episode ahead of time. The fellow is doing some amazing breakthrough with redemption of lawful money on municipal charge coupons - Tickets - but I am referring to his inspiration regarding that old Sheriff Agreement that he put forward back when he first registered - Say Goodbye to Property Taxes?

    Regardless of the exact scenario on this thread - the business itself - I am addressing what The Problem is according to the opening post. Not running a similar business, I have been missing something in my mental models; the fact that a Zero Return does not reflect accurate bookkeeping practices for other purposes. I would not recommend that one keep two sets of books - cooking the books!

    So I am now integrating the untried practice (except with Motla68 but he seemed to think it a perpetual agreement even though the fee was calculated for only one year) of picking the menu items you want for your downtown storefront - fire and police protection; communications 911 service and maybe a couple others like Chamber of Commerce underwriting, Sheriff's Business Association etc. - and figuring up your personal Mill Tax, per capita from last year's CAFR. Then you collect and publish your receipt for that donation and renew it annually and substitute that receipt for protection traditionally covered by city sales taxes done by a percentage of profits - including protection from harassing City Tax Assessors!!


    Interesting though - this website is a great probe.


    Regards,

    David Merrill.
    Aside from the obvious Manifestation in the second paragraph, the sheriff agreement created in 2004 was never used, it is put away and never used especially after development of CS in 2009 referencing the indemnification it was determined it would never be needed. WHEN ALL CRIMES ARE COMMERCIAL
    • According to 27 CFR 72.11, burglary; counterfeiting; forgery; kidnapping; larceny; robbery; illegal sale or possession of weapons; prostitution; extortion; swindling; and many other things, like simple addiction to drugs or marihuana use.
    Are considered and defined as “Commercial Crimes” where the charge is converted to an object for “commercial use” in which to create bonds to hold you as surety when you make claims on the Birth Name or any other name they create.. aka John Doe. Now for someone who knows who they are being that the currency is property of the state and the names they created for themselves are property of the state, then what? I have seen many articles written up where according to the late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, 100% of the people that are in Federal or State Penitentiaries are there VOLUNTARILY! Also there is surveys and articles that I have seen that where United States has the highest population of people in prison then any other country. People need to question the source of authority of all these things including the lower charters setup, whether it comes from color of law or some lawful agreement written, verbal or otherwise.
    Indemnification is a powerful tool when used correctly,

    http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/showt...ull=1#post2109
    Last edited by motla68; 04-22-11 at 05:03 PM.

  9. #19
    stoneFree
    Guest
    Axe, my situation is probably similar to yours. I'm not an employee, but independent, making money trading/laboring. I don't (nor does my trust) have an EIN or a business license. I redeem checks/payments in lawful money and do not consider it "income" under the Revenue Acts. Most of the entities doing the paying do not file Form 1099 against the SSN (issued for me and/or my trust), therefore there is no IRS presumption that these payments are, in fact, income. I don't pay in and nothing is withheld. Therefore I do not file 1040s as there is no need or requirement.

    I suspect you may have a virtual storefront which the banksters are hopeful to tap into with legislation like this authorizing a new 1099-K for Merchant Card and Third-Party Payments (PayPal):
    http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/...03/abu0258/s03
    I'm not sure if this even became law but, I think if examined closely, you'd discover it would not apply to those outside the Federal Reserve system.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by stoneFree View Post
    Axe, my situation is probably similar to yours. I'm not an employee, but independent, making money trading/laboring. I don't (nor does my trust) have an EIN or a business license. I redeem checks/payments in lawful money and do not consider it "income" under the Revenue Acts. Most of the entities doing the paying do not file Form 1099 against the SSN (issued for me and/or my trust), therefore there is no IRS presumption that these payments are, in fact, income. I don't pay in and nothing is withheld. Therefore I do not file 1040s as there is no need or requirement.

    I suspect you may have a virtual storefront which the banksters are hopeful to tap into with legislation like this authorizing a new 1099-K for Merchant Card and Third-Party Payments (PayPal):
    http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/...03/abu0258/s03
    I'm not sure if this even became law but, I think if examined closely, you'd discover it would not apply to those outside the Federal Reserve system.
    Thank you for contributing Stone. Nice to know there are others in my boat :-)

    I have multiple web properties that are unrelated to my brick and mortar business,
    but I have a brick and mortar business also.

    I'm aware of the 1099-k, Paypal had a big banner up the last half of last year
    letting everyone know that starting in 2011 they will be reporting all accounts
    that do over a certain amount of sales or withdraws in a year.

    My quandary there is I don;t know how to go about applying my RE (restricted endorsement)
    Everything is created electronically, so I may have problems there.

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