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Thread: Abusive delays in processing Amended Return seeking lawful money reduction

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lorne View Post
    Arrested and charged with what crime? Is it illegal to create a letter that looks official purporting to "help" people with their tax liability (real or imagined), hire a company to mail out thousands of them, then man a call center to talk people into giving them your credit card number?

    Is it illegal to come up with the Aldrich Plan that creates an elastic currency that looks official, get Congress to pass it, have Woodrow Wilson sign it into law as the Federal Reserve Act, then talk people into using the FRN currency which creates a tax liability that ends up strip mining the wealth of America?

    Both are nothing I'd ever do; seems way too ... scammy.
    Yes, and Yes.

    In scenario 1.

    Creating an official looking letter is fraud. Obviously.

    In scenario 2.

    Using bottomry (insurance - FDIC) to cover for money shortages in the member bank vaults is dishonest banking. One defrauds the customers to believing they can withdraw all their money at once. That there is enough cash on hand in the vault to do that.

    In the second scenario though, one has a remedy at Title 12 USC 411.



    P.S. I think the first can be run in criminal syndicalism. The Nigerian Scam is old news and if they still run international piracy that has quit being news. So good luck prosecuting!
    Last edited by David Merrill; 06-17-20 at 03:12 PM.

  2. #12
    Update. IRS office handling case is closed an I have not received official word of Frivolous Return. My "IRS Advocate", used in the loosest terms of the definition, has told me the determination is a Frivolous Return.

    On a more joyous note. The State has just sent me my lawful money reduction. In fact it is for 2K more than I claimed. IRS still denies that I have sent my return. I doubt since State relies on Fed to calculate and verify. Something fishy afoot here.

    I have also begun sharing , on twitter, what I have learned from all of you here at STSC and Lawful Money Trust. I have garnered 7K followers in only 3 days. The topic is exciting for many. Of course due acknowledgments to STSC have been made and I am now linking to the various sites as a resource. I cannot teach in the depth that I have benefited from here so hopefully you will see a spike in attendance. Check it out at David Neil@Neilof9Hostages on twitter.

  3. #13
    That is great to know David Neil.

    I do not Tweet. The amount of time it might consume is disturbing.

    I sure appreciate if you can promote some more stimulating conversation. Inoculating the world systematically with the COVID-19 vaccine has been keeping me busy. And it would seem my sharing the higher metaphysics of exotic matter has been stumping dialogue. I am upgrading my lab and have gotten back to redemption on my mind.

    Like you, I feel you have accessed reliable intelligence. You expose the phone lies by getting the state refund response. Of all the returns the IRS loses yours? It is easy for an IRS agent to lie over the phone, and even if you record him doing so there is nothing you can do to bring it forth as evidence in any administrative hearings.

    Thank you for having the courage to explain the law directly to the IRS. Most people like to avoid such encounters.

  4. #14

  5. #15
    Close but I am https://twitter.com/NeilOf9Hostages. Naill was first king of Ireland from whom I descend. My true Name , as is Nail's, is in homage and remembrance of our lineage dating back to the Egypt and the Nile river.

  6. #16
    Total fraud. Just got off phone with someone from Fraudulent Claims Program. They insist that they have sent Notification of lien 3 weeks ago. 2 in fact since I have 2 claims. Of course, I have yet to receive them and there is a 30 time frame to rebut. They direct me to my "IRS Advocate". My "IRS Advocate" is trying to close my case and is redirecting me to IRS. Does anyone know of any forms that I can access to refute their judgement?

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by David Neil View Post
    Total fraud. Just got off phone with someone from Fraudulent Claims Program. They insist that they have sent Notification of lien 3 weeks ago. 2 in fact since I have 2 claims. Of course, I have yet to receive them and there is a 30 time frame to rebut. They direct me to my "IRS Advocate". My "IRS Advocate" is trying to close my case and is redirecting me to IRS. Does anyone know of any forms that I can access to refute their judgement?
    You accept judgment over the phone?

  8. #18
    No. My "advocate" is trying to close my case. She has not provided an answer to my request to IRS. Today she provided a phone # to the "Frivolous Return Program". The rep pulled up my file, could only say 2 letters sent Nov 25. I have yet to receive. She will not re-issue the letters, will not tell me the exact case that makes my return Frivolous. Her recommendation was of course to fax a letter indicating that I was withdrawing my amended return. Without the 3176C letter I do not know when my 30 response window begins. Without the letter I cannot rebut whatever they are claiming the frivolity was. My research is showing that I can request a hear until after I receive a letter of lien. Other research is showing that a 3176C letter usual only contains threats and no specific accusation. Also during research I found this: https://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/irm_25-025-010r. These are rules, including mentions of entails a Frivolous Return. Obviously none of the cases litigated in court do not have bearing on 12USC411. Further reading I acme across a rule that says:

    [B]25.25.10.2 (09-15-2017)
    Identification of Frivolous Submissions
    Identification of frivolous submissions can be made in any IRS office by any employee. They may be identified during original return processing, amended return or claim processing, during the course of a routine audit, or upon any contact with a taxpayer or their representative. Frivolous returns often:
    Contain on the face of the tax return or on attachments to the tax return arguments about the obligation to file or pay tax.
    Include altered forms or jurats containing frivolous arguments.
    include verbiage that attempts to impede or circumvent the administrative processing of the tax return.

    "Include Altered Forms caught my eye. The IRS rep today said in passing that the returns were in her office because there was a stamp placed on the form. I was the stamp I use to demand lawful. I included it on the form because I felt that my demand should go on any instrument of Fed Res and IRS. Anyway, I will assume that this is the reason I am singed out.

    I am currently preparing my responce. In that response I will rescind my first 1040X's and substitute the new one to cure any deficiency.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by David Neil View Post
    No. My "advocate" is trying to close my case. She has not provided an answer to my request to IRS. Today she provided a phone # to the "Frivolous Return Program". The rep pulled up my file, could only say 2 letters sent Nov 25. I have yet to receive. She will not re-issue the letters, will not tell me the exact case that makes my return Frivolous. Her recommendation was of course to fax a letter indicating that I was withdrawing my amended return. Without the 3176C letter I do not know when my 30 response window begins. Without the letter I cannot rebut whatever they are claiming the frivolity was. My research is showing that I can request a hear until after I receive a letter of lien. Other research is showing that a 3176C letter usual only contains threats and no specific accusation. Also during research I found this: https://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/irm_25-025-010r. These are rules, including mentions of entails a Frivolous Return. Obviously none of the cases litigated in court do not have bearing on 12USC411. Further reading I acme across a rule that says:

    [B]25.25.10.2 (09-15-2017)
    Identification of Frivolous Submissions
    Identification of frivolous submissions can be made in any IRS office by any employee. They may be identified during original return processing, amended return or claim processing, during the course of a routine audit, or upon any contact with a taxpayer or their representative. Frivolous returns often:
    Contain on the face of the tax return or on attachments to the tax return arguments about the obligation to file or pay tax.
    Include altered forms or jurats containing frivolous arguments.
    include verbiage that attempts to impede or circumvent the administrative processing of the tax return.

    "Include Altered Forms caught my eye. The IRS rep today said in passing that the returns were in her office because there was a stamp placed on the form. I was the stamp I use to demand lawful. I included it on the form because I felt that my demand should go on any instrument of Fed Res and IRS. Anyway, I will assume that this is the reason I am singed out.

    I am currently preparing my responce. In that response I will rescind my first 1040X's and substitute the new one to cure any deficiency.
    Nice link. Thank you again. I found this:

    An untimely claim for a refund/abatement on a non-frivolous Form 843 is received.

    Note: To be considered timely, taxpayer must file a claim for a refund on Form 843 within 3 years from the time a return associated with the penalty is filed or 2 years from the date the penalty was paid, whichever period expires later.
    I have some more to add here.
    Last edited by David Merrill; 12-18-20 at 09:36 AM.

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