there is a contumacious difference between the two
You are still missing the point
there is a contumacious difference between the two
You are still missing the point
Shuftin
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This is what you are referring to concerning giving the Court jurisdiction. This is from the great State of Georgia but it spells it out nicely.
TITLE 17. CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
§ 17-7-94. Recordation and effect of plea of "not guilty" or of standing mute
If the person accused of committing a crime, upon being arraigned, pleads "not guilty" or stands mute, the clerk shall immediately record upon the minutes of the court the plea of "not guilty," together with the arraignment; and the arraignment and plea shall constitute the issue between the accused and the state.
HISTORY: Laws 1833, Cobb's 1851 Digest, p. 834; Code 1863, § 4525; Code 1868, § 4544; Code 1873, § 4638; Code 1882, § 4638; Penal Code 1895, § 947; Penal Code 1910, § 972; Code 1933, § 27-1405.
The arraignment and plea [together] shall constitute the issue between the accused and the state.
Appearance perfects the process i.e paperwork. Any errors in the process are made perfect by ones appearance. What is needed is an abatement. An abatement is not a challenge to the Court, it is a notice to the Court that there are errors in the process.
Long story short. An abatement informs the Court "Fix the errors in the process [paperwork] and I will show."
So, "I have not plead anything" does not perfect jurisdiction and does not constitute appearance
but
"I am not here to plead" does?
Any Appearance ..... perfects Jurisdiction
that means...
physical appearance
a mail in Plea
filing a Motion, other than a Motion to Dismiss for Want of Jurisdiction
hiring an Attorney
I agree that even appearing to decline to plea would be interpreted as Registration of Appearance pro se. Not letting the judge do his job is the same as threatening his career. It is uncomfortable to let him cross the prosecutor, who is there in his courtroom with literally every case he hears.
One thing that I note too about BY's recollection of the transcript. He claims that he remembers it exactly, maybe he even recorded it to transcribe?
I believe if it is accurate that it is very important.
Do you see how he asked the judge if he could move the court for a dismissal but never actually did so? The judge granted him permission to move the court and waited for BY to do so. The judge got silence and after waiting a while, the judge dismissed the case suae sponte.
BY understands the concept about any appearance will perfect jurisdiction not to be caught on the record moving the court. That would be Registration of Appearance and suddenly things would go typically where the judge just railroads the Defendant through the revenue mill.
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Close but Go/NoGo [military term]. Yes, an appearance can be a physical appearance. But then again, an appearance can also be paperwork [once filed]. Either/or can be construed as being an "Appearance." An appearance alone does not, has not, and will never "Perfect Jurisdiction."
Jurisdiction is gained purely by "Process." Jurisdiction is never ever GAINED solely by an "Appearance."
NOTE: there is a "Special Appearance" before the Court and also there is an "At Arms Length" appearance before the Court. Neither of which gives the Court jurisdiction.
A Courts jurisdiction MUST be stated (Clearly) in the paperwork [Process].
i.e. "This Court has jurisdiction over this controversy because 'Blah blah blah'."
Start reading some Supreme Court cases or if nothing else, some Appellant cases. The first few paragraphs should suffice.
Jurisdiction is gained always by "Process," never by "Appearance."
Last edited by Shuftin; 01-22-12 at 06:52 AM.
see here ....
Quote =
Any Appearance ..... perfects Jurisdiction
that means...
physical appearance
a mail in Plea
filing a Motion, other than a Motion to Dismiss for Want of Jurisdiction
hiring an Attorney
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now ....
go back to the NY definition of " Appearance Ticket " posted a bit back, we were discussing a traffic issue, where the Process starts with an Appearance Ticket
>>by Appearing, You are giving the Court Jurisdiction due to acquiescing to the " Simplified Traffic Information " filed by Offiucer Friendly
now, if You do not appear, the Court is not able to acquire Jurisdiction, because there is no Process ...
PS...
New York abolished " Special Apperance " some years ago
PSS
there is no such thing as an " at arms length " appearance in New York
Last edited by Binbokusai Yagyuu; 01-22-12 at 07:24 AM.