Currently being denied my deposit with demand to redeem lawful money

[David Merrill]

My bank's response which I received in the mail today: Bank's position.pdf

The legal officer which signed the letter is not the Bankster which I spoke with on the telephone 7/29.

I will respond to the bank's letter with a letter of my own. Below are the general ideas I will use in my response to the bank's letter bullet point by bullet point:

1. I have already agreed and made my intentions clear that I would not need to change the title of my account to redeem lawful money.

2. I have already agreed and made my intentions clear that I would not need to change the signature card/account agreement to redeem lawful money.

3. My endorsement is NOT needed to negotiate a check.

4. I stated that with my demand for lawful money I would be receiving US Notes, which appear to be Federal Reserve Notes (appear that way to the bank anyway) but really I would be receiving lawful money or US Notes.

Please share any suggestions you may have in regard to my response, if I should even respond. Also, assuming I should respond, should I provide the bank with the different code sections/court cases which I've found in my research which support my position? The Bankster stated that it appeared I was ahead of them in researching these issues and they would appreciate the information.

Additionally, I have two identical letters which I dropped in the mail yesterday, one to the FDIC (primary regulator of my bank) and one to my State's Division of Banking: FDIC and State banking regulator letter.pdf

Yesterday I redeemed lawful money for the first time by cashing my paycheck at the bank which the check was drawn (my boss's bank) with my demand for lawful money on the back of the check! Today I took my lawful money (US Notes which appear to be FRNs) and deposited them into my account at my bank.

Thank you for sanitizing and showing us the documents Karl Nelson.

The key is in bullet 3 of the bank's response letter. First sentence. The term negotiate. They presume that you wish to negotiate currency. Negotiating currency technically means to be trading up, not trading down. You may trade up the Order for FRNs to US notes. It is irresponsible though to negotiate US notes for FRNs. This is getting difficult to wrap around and so therefore what has really happened is that they, being friends lured you into explaining yourself so clearly that they came back with the next sentence:

We are concerned that your refusal to endorse the items by using the phrase, "redeemed in lawful money pursuant to Title 12 USC Section 411," and considering this a non-endorsement may restrict our ability to carry out this request and ultimately collect funds that we have credited to your account for your benefit.

That is where they are pulling you into credit instead of sure funds. Lawful money in your account has nothing to do with credit. It is backed by the signatures of the US Treasurer and the Secretary - obligations of the US. This is why it would be good to go non-interest bearing. Then you are getting no benefit from the bank except that they hold your funds. They are concerned about benefits to you, or more that they will get burned by trying to use your funds for fractional lending.

Thank you. That is a very revealing letter.

So you deposited some funds? Take a withdrawal slip, and strike through the Order of; and write Redeemed in Lawful Money Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411 on it.

When you get your cash, that is the same thing. They have wrapped you around the term negotiating. You are depositing funds. Not negotiating funds. You are not trading currencies, you are demanding lawful money instead of FRNs. They will give you US notes in the form of FRNs (since 1971). Fine.

All you needed to do was get your demand on the record. You have a right to make the demand. You are not getting any benefits - unless they continue to give you interest, which is at their option to quit. What really happened is you educated yourself so much you gave them enough to apply sophistry.

If you like the bank then don't close the account. Just stamp your demand on there and tell the cashier that you believe you have the right to make the demand. You know they will give you FRNs - fine. You just want to make your demand. You tried to explain it to them and they misconstrued the whole thing.

If they close down your account, which I doubt they will, then you already have found you can cash your paychecks at your boss's bank. If you really need a bank account then open one there. If your current bank is turning down business like that, their future is pretty grim. I believe that the metaphysics of defiling your character and right to lawful money by demand will hit them pretty hard, pretty soon.


Actually though, they will try to get you to close your account. Nothing more. They will not close it. It will look like they are closing it and then they will want you to sign for the funds there, by closing it yourself. Tell them how much you like them and you only want to withdraw part of the account funds, not all of it. You wish to continue doing business...

[karl nathan]

Thanks to all of those who responded. I will address each response in separate posts.

Thank you for sanitizing and showing us the documents Karl Nelson.

The key is in bullet 3 of the bank's response letter. First sentence. The term negotiate. They presume that you wish to negotiate currency. Negotiating currency technically means to be trading up, not trading down. You may trade up the Order for FRNs to US notes.

Merriam-Webster definition: 'negotiate - to transfer (as a bill of exchange) to another by delivery or endorsement'

It is my understanding that I am negotiating my check (not negotiating currency), not by endorsement but by delivery, so that the bank can make the funds/currency available to me for deposit or withdrawal. When I deliver my check to the bank, the check being a bill of exchange which is a negotiable instrument, I negotiate the check or transfer the check to the bank so they can obtain the funds/currency which are required by the negotiable instrument/bill of exchange/check.

So you deposited some funds? Take a withdrawal slip, and strike through the Order of; and write Redeemed in Lawful Money Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411 on it.

Yes, I made a deposit in my bank account. I cashed my check in lawful money at my boss' bank, took the US Notes which appeared to be FRNs, and deposited them in my bank. I already have lawful money in my bank account.

Are you suggesting I take a withdrawal slip with the demand and redeem the amount of FRNs currency I had in the account prior to depositing lawful money? Say I had $10 of FRNs in my account and deposited $50 of lawful money. Should I withdrawal $10 with the demand on the withdrawal slip? I could then deposit the $10 of lawful money at the bank the next day and would therefore have $60 of lawful money in my account instead of having both lawful money and FRNs in my account as I do now.

They have wrapped you around the term negotiating. You are depositing funds. Not negotiating funds. You are not trading currencies, you are demanding lawful money instead of FRNs.

They have attempted to wrap me around the term negotiate. I do agree that I am depositing funds not negotiating funds. An example of a time some one would need to negotiate funds would be if they received FRNs for payment. They would then need to negotiate, or redeem, the FRNs into lawful money. However, I will never accept FRNs as I will make a demand to be paid in lawful money if I am to receive currency as payment.

What really happened is you educated yourself so much you gave them enough to apply sophistry.

Yes. Fortunately sophistry will be overcome by the Truth.

Karl Nathan