I found a bank (sterling bank) that they have no problem with the verbiage on the checks for deposit or withdrawal, I just can't find a bank that will except verbiage other than my signature on the signature card. Can I get around this at all, or is the signature card a must do? Every bank same thing, they shut down when want to add to the sig card. I'm in Medford Oregon, if anyone has done this in Oregon please let me know. I'll move if that's what it takes thx.
Try Bank of America. I went to BofA's website and did a location search on postal code 97503 (Medford, Oregon) - found several branches in your area.
I opened an account with US bank up here in the PDX area and had no issues with a signing statement. They were a little confused by it but alas allowed it.Originally Posted by Hescotoolz
BofA was the second bank I tried a couple weeks ago. Same thing the guy wasn't familiar with title 12 so he called to make sure he didn't do something he shouldn't, first thing they told him nothing more than a signature on the signature card. It's getting frustrating
Today the assistant manager of sterling bank had my non interest baring account almost open, asked the manager if she should make a copy of the title 12 document manager told her to call and ask. She didn't even mention signature card to whoever she was talking to they told her nothing more than a signature on the signature card. It's like more people are requesting this and this is the way they are shutting people down
First item is get out of the conditioning that you walk away, after signing anything - anything! - without your exact copy of it. Ask yourselves how many of you already have a copy of your Signature Card?
Put your demand on the Signature Card, and then when they object, strike it through so that it can still be read. Now you Demand is clear on your copy. Your intent to Redeem lawful money with every transaction.
The Signature Card as I understand it is only important for electronic transactions, but with ATMs and compulsory electronic paycheck that is a big deal so we need to hash this out correctly. I am beginning to gather that the bankers consider the Signature Card their property; rather than a shared property called Agreement. That might be a good place to start. Begin with tasks (homework) like taking a copy of the Signature Agreement from the bank, take it home.
I walked into Compass Bank and grabbed an audio recording. You can see, that for the non-customer/prospective customer it is only to be viewed there, under supervision of Audrey watching me from her desk. Now, I had to shut down the audio to get the photo, but she complained, pulled it away from me and I believe she pretended that I had not snapped the photo. Even so, I did not give my auto-focus time or my battery may have been low. But that would have been precious! - That part of the audio.
Speaking for myself though, I get by without a bank. I was just killing time as I recall, making change for my process server.
My point is to start chipping down that misperception that agreements are property of the bank. Agreements as I understand them are mutually owned by the participants. So at the least go get a copy of the current Signature Card if you don't already have one. Just ask for a copy of your Signature Card.
If you have an hour though, ask to see the bank's tariff.
Please take an audio recording of this. If you want, maybe you can sanitize it with an audio editor so you can amplify weak voices. Let's hear it here. The tariff is a three-ring notebook with about 100 pages in it. It describes in detail every operation of your bank. It is the bank manager/president's instruction manual. So if you don't mind looking a little wierd, talk to yourself - read to yourself. That way we get an idea of what is in the tariff. After a while ask the manager to please show you where you cannot add anything to the Signature Card signature? Then when you have a bunch of intel for us here, pull out your camera and start getting photos for us, until they kick you out.
That is how I would do it. In fact, next time I have the time...
Last edited by David Merrill; 08-13-11 at 10:32 AM.
Call the BofA branch at which I opened an account. The phone number is 312-464-0701. Ask for La Joyce. She is the personal banker that was given the green light by BofA legal department to accept my amendment to the signature card. Request that she have whatever BofA attorney she consulted to contact the branch that you visited in your area.
I did the same at Cole Talyor bank. The 47th street branch, after accepting the paycheck with the verbiage for several weeks, suddenly refused. So I went to the downtown branch. At this branch the manager pulled me to the side and informed me that he will consult the legal department before honoring the check, and that I should follow up with him after several days. Well, I did, and the manager said (via voicemail and email) that the verbiage is okay. I asked this manager to inform the 47th street branch of this so that I may continue to cash the checks there. My subsequent visit to 47th proved to be successful, although the manager acted all "hoidy-toidy" - as if he was insulted that I "went over their heads."
As a matter of fact, when I presented the restricted check to the teller, she initially refused. Then I asked her to consult her manager as this matter had been resolved by Cole Taylor's legal department. She then replied, "Oh yeah. We had a meeting about this. Let me go get my manager." The manager returned, performed an "override" - and all the while wouldn't even look me in the eye.My point is that one branch bank may help another branch to overcome ignorance.Back to BofA. Well, all I can say is that I was clear to specify what I wanted - La Joyce took notes - and faxed the notes over to the legal folks.
I expressed the following to LaJoyce:When she asked just how I would express my intent, that's when I pulled out my ink stamper. I stamped the verbiage on a blank sheet of printer paper that she provided. It was on that same sheet of paper that she took notes on whatever I spoke.
- I want to open a non-interest bearing checking account.
- It is my intention to only handle lawful money on this account.
- It is my intent to NOT handle any form of credit on this account.
- I absolutely do not and will not open a savings account (or any other type of interest bearing account).
- On anything to which I put my signature, I want to express my intent.
I did explain to her reality of lawful money vs private credit, but I did that only because she was genuinely interested. But I did convince her to contact the legal department rather than relying on the ignorance of the branch manager.
I really appreciate La Joyce.
Last edited by David Merrill; 07-02-15 at 01:19 AM.
To recap...I was waiting to respond to the letter I received from my bank: Bank's position.pdf. I was waiting for...
On 8/16 RThomas created a new thread "A regular deposit of lawful money." That evening I went to my public library and investigated the terminology used by RThomas. I must say thank you to RThomas for sharing the knowledge about regular vs irregular deposits!
On 8/19 I mailed my response to my bank: Karl Nathan response to Bank's Position.pdf. I received the bank's response to my letter the following week:Bank unchanged position.pdf
Also on 8/19 the FDIC mailed this letter to me which I received the following week: FDIC response.pdf, which was in response to my initial inquiry: FDIC and State banking regulator letter.pdf
I called and spoke with the FDIC case manager who was investigating my 'complaint' (their word not mine) and he stated that a bank can not refuse my cash to be redeemed in lawful money, but the bank can refuse to accept my negotiable instrument, my check with the demand verbiage instead of my indorsement, as it is not redeemable in lawful money on demand as it is not a FRN.
The bank is required to respond to the FDIC within several weeks. The FDIC will then write me a letter responding to my inquiry.
Thank you for sharing this with us!
That letter looks great. Include the August 2nd letter from them so they can refresh point-by-point easily. Also if you want to bare some teeth about that last paragraph find some appropriate federal crimes to fill in with this Criminal Complaint Form and open a $39 evidence repository with the local USDC. That way they know you have the Criminal Complaint form setting downtown at the federal courthouse ready for you to go sign.
It would seem conspiracy against rights - Title 18 USC §242 and maybe something about Diversion, them insisting you give consent for your funds in account to be used for repugnant purposes - raising the national debt to fund foreign wars etc.
Regards,
David Merrill.
Pete: I have an account officer asking why can't we just cross out the name of the individual that will no longer be on the account instead of re-doing the account signature card? If we have to re-do the signature card where in the regulation that states this is what is required?
Tilly: We require individual accounts and business accounts that remove a signer from an account to re-sign a "revised" account signature card with the current signers and a revised date. Can anyone help me with "we are only going to do this if it is a regulation" statement???
Pete: There is no regulation, but you might want to suggest that he get the OK from your attorney first. I can guarantee that your attorney will have either a "deer in the headlights" or a "you gotta be kidding me, right" look on his face once he presents his question - take your choice. How does someone - anyone - cross a name off a contract act to nullify a contract that has already been executed?
Tilly: Thanks that was what I was thinking - more of a contract situation instead of a regulation.
Burt: We have a procedure and policy for this type of situation; and we require new signature cards for any changes. Crossing names out or changing information on the initial or original signature card can appear to be an alteration, whereas a new signature card acts as an official amendment or update to the account titling.
Pete: Too many court cases involving account ownership have embarrassed bankers by revealing shortcuts like crossing out or adding names to old signatures cards. Not only does it appear sloppy; it also doesn't provide a court with any assurance that the bank is careful about contracts.
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