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Thread: LAW states registration not required

  1. #11
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    AFAIK State DMVs are subject to US Department of Transportation regulations, etc. US Department of Transportation a superior venue to the State DMV. Totally different jurisdiction and venue. If you are not commercial, private, not for hire I am unaware of any driver license requirement.
    I just went to the DOT website.
    Curiously they don't say much about themselves and don't even specify which United States they serve.
    But they appear to be in charge of a whole host of alphabet agencies.
    Treefarmer

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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Treefarmer View Post
    I just went to the DOT website.
    Curiously they don't say much about themselves and don't even specify which United States they serve.
    But they appear to be in charge of a whole host of alphabet agencies.
    U.S. Department of Transportation works with US Coast Guard and is under the U.S.' Secretary of Transportation. USDOT is over both the FAA and the TSA. The office of the U.S.' Secretary of Transportation is a 'cabinet position' along with the U.S. Postmaster General.



    The United States Secretary of Transportation is the head of the United States Department of Transportation, a member of the President's Cabinet, and fourteenth in the Presidential line of succession.[1] The post was created with the formation of the Department of Transportation on October 15, 1966, by President Lyndon B. Johnson's signing of the Department of Transportation Act.[2] The Department's mission is "to develop and coordinate policies that will provide an efficient and economical national transportation system, with due regard for need, the environment, and the national defense."[2] The Secretary of Transportation oversees eleven agencies, including the Federal Aviation Administration, the Federal Highway Administration, and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.[2] In April 2008, Mary Peters launched the official blog of the Secretary of Transportation called The Fast Lane.[3] (Wikipedia)
    Quote Originally Posted by Treefarmer View Post
    But they appear to be in charge of a whole host of alphabet agencies.
    Thusly, the USDOT # is issued by the organization that run the FAA and apparently used to run the TSA until March 25, 2003. Apparently the U.S. Coast Guard was transferred to the US Department of Transportation in 1967 and to the DHS in 2003.
    Last edited by allodial; 08-30-11 at 03:07 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    The license is a permit to be in possession of State property. If you get that then you much more insight ought to follow. As has been related before, to become a cop in State of Pennsylvania a person has to have a Pennsylvania driver license? Why? To take the part of the mandated training for police car operations, you need permission to be in possession of District-State property. Otherwise, how can you 'legally' 'drive' a police car?
    So, to recap what we have discussed here and elsewhere previously:
    We are led to believe by parents, schools, lawyers, clergy, and certain government employees that we must "register" our automobiles with the State DMV or County as the case may be, at which point we have to pay taxes for the privilege, and we receive a "Certificate of Title" in return and a registration plate which has to be renewed every year, at a cost.
    Then we need to apply for a DL in order to "drive" our "vehicle."
    We also have to have insurance for each of our "vehicles" which is just money down the drain for most of us. (It's nice to have when you actually need it and the insurance company makes good on a claim, which doesn't always happen of course).

    But all this is really unnecessary if one wants to travel for private purposes, not transporting paying "passengers" or "cargo" or for any other commercial purpose?
    What about accident liability?
    What are the options for handling claims arising from accidental collisions and such, in a private setting?
    Treefarmer

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    DOT website says:

    "Coast Guard and Transportation Security Agency have transferred to the Department of Homeland Security. Older press releases may be found by searching the archives. "
    Treefarmer

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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Treefarmer View Post
    So, to recap what we have discussed here and elsewhere previously:
    We are led to believe by parents, schools, lawyers, clergy, and certain government employees that we must "register" our automobiles with the State DMV or County as the case may be, at which point we have to pay taxes for the privilege, and we receive a "Certificate of Title" in return and a registration plate which has to be renewed every year, at a cost.
    Then we need to apply for a DL in order to "drive" our "vehicle."
    We also have to have insurance for each of our "vehicles" which is just money down the drain for most of us. (It's nice to have when you actually need it and the insurance company makes good on a claim, which doesn't always happen of course).

    But all this is really unnecessary if one wants to travel for private purposes, not transporting paying "passengers" or "cargo" or for any other commercial purpose?
    What about accident liability?
    What are the options for handling claims arising from accidental collisions and such, in a private setting?
    Keep in mind as to the variations between one circumstance and another. Are you a resident of any State of the United States? Are you a public citizen of any State of the United States? Is a 'vehicle' still 'attached' to a car note? Is the automobile paid for? How has the State-level registration been dealt with, if any?

    As for 'financial responsibility' there a variety of insurance /bonding options available. Afterall, Interstate trucking companies have insurance/bonds no? If you do a random search on the USDOT website, you should be able to find insurance and bonding records associated with most any given USDOT #.

    http://li-public.fmcsa.dot.gov/LIVIE...y.prc_carrlist

    When a 'motor vehicle' is under a car note, so to speak, its likely deemed to be under a lease until its paid off. The so-called 'lender' owns the car. If the lender is a public company like GMAC or w/e...go figure. The insurance required of you is perhaps for protecting GMAC *not you*. Once the note is paid GMAC's lien comes off the title, perhaps at that point there isn't even any need for a State title. Does the State tell you this? Well why would they tell you that and lose out on $$$$$$$$$$$$$? The GMAC folks want you to have State tags so that they can easily find the 'vehicle' easily. If you take the plates off a car with a note on it, they might assume that you are out to commit larceny. Not a good idea, eh? Now if you want the service of having your automobile protected by the State, perhaps you need to make it State property at least partially? However, if you don't want that service....

    I've talked with 'DMV heads' and was told that if a car is being sold or xferred to a state/country where registration isn't required, a notice of the sale would suffice to the DMV. Of course, if the 'address' of the "owner" is something like 100 MAIN ST, SCHENECTADY, NY 12345 perhaps that's a lot different situation than for an address of, say: private 100 Main street, near Chicago, Illinois not domestic? A city is public no?

    The point is to obviate that there are or can be various layers to all of this.
    Last edited by allodial; 08-30-11 at 03:43 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  6. #16
    The insurance issue is one that seems to come up often in regards traveling, I can remember a time when it wasn't required and we all seemed to survive. Having said that the choice to insure your car or not should be an individual matter. Many would disagree with this statement. I have at various times driven with and without insurance. If all other things were not required I feel that having insurnce would be a plus. The DOT issue is and interesting one but one which I find is unnecessary and only further clouds many issues in regards freeing oneself from contractual obligations with the government..... fB

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Burrell View Post
    The DOT issue is and interesting one but one which I find is unnecessary and only further clouds many issues in regards freeing oneself from contractual obligations with the government..... fB
    Not sure how it clouds anything when done right. Having a U.S. Federal/Cabinet-level, "law-enforcement"-searchable record that shows "exempt" and "not commercial" clouds how?
    Last edited by allodial; 08-30-11 at 03:25 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  8. #18
    Great thread fB. I get what you are saying with the UCC and various court decisions. I dont comprehend the USDOT idea allodial brought up. I went to their site and it really seems that it is for commerce only. I think this is where the use of a trust would come in very handy. Now that I look back allodial does have the name of a trust on the id tag. Allodial, how would that be structured would be nice to know.

    Salve sis

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Christopher View Post
    Great thread fB. I get what you are saying with the UCC and various court decisions. I dont comprehend the USDOT idea allodial brought up. I went to their site and it really seems that it is for commerce only. I think this is where the use of a trust would come in very handy. Now that I look back allodial does have the name of a trust on the id tag. Allodial, how would that be structured would be nice to know.

    Salve sis
    Keep in mind that State DL and tags carry a commercial presumption. Where is easily accessible search for LEOs or others so they can determine that its really just for informational rather then commercial? Likely you could complete a DL application in a similar manner. But the USDOT provides a remedy. The key is REMEDY. You arent actually doing anything commercial. You are using it for REMEDY not for commerce. One can clarify the intent by sending supporting document, cover letter or the like to the US Secretary of Transportation or to the Chief Counsel of the USDOT.

    Key terms: not for hire, not commercial, private, not domestic, no cargo.
    Last edited by allodial; 08-30-11 at 08:58 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Treefarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    Keep in mind that State DL and tags carry a commercial presumption. Where is easily accessible search for LEOs or others so they can determine that its really just for informational rather then commercial? Likely you could complete a DL application in a similar manner. But the USDOT provides a remedy. The key is REMEDY. You arent actually doing anything commercial. You are using it for REMEDY not for commerce. One can clarify the intent by sending supporting document, cover letter or the like to the US Secretary of Transportation or to the Chief Counsel of the USDOT.

    Key terms: not for hire, not commercial, private, not domestic, no cargo.
    Thank you for all the info allodial.
    Definitely something to think about, especially as the economy collapses further. Traveling may become more difficult in the future.
    Luckily it is still relatively easy and borderline affordable to keep DL, tags and insurance around here, on our old clunkers anyways. They were all bought with cash long ago; we have no credit rating, never having bought anything on credit.

    Is it necessary to have some family trust structure in place in order to go this route with the DOT # for the cars?
    Treefarmer

    There is power in the blood of Jesus

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