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Thread: LAW states registration not required

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by allodial View Post
    Keep in mind that State DL and tags carry a commercial presumption. Where is easily accessible search for LEOs or others so they can determine that its really just for informational rather then commercial? Likely you could complete a DL application in a similar manner. But the USDOT provides a remedy. The key is REMEDY. You arent actually doing anything commercial. You are using it for REMEDY not for commerce. One can clarify the intent by sending supporting document, cover letter or the like to the US Secretary of Transportation or to the Chief Counsel of the USDOT.

    Key terms: not for hire, not commercial, private, not domestic, no cargo.
    While I understand that this would document your status, I feel it just moves you out of one jurisdiction of the government into another. You are agreeing to contract with this jurisdiction and that could prejudice other claims you have made as to your status. If athis works for you than I have no problem with it, but it is not a step I would wish to take. There are other less binding ways to afirm your status through noticing and your repository. fB
    Last edited by Frederick Burrell; 08-31-11 at 03:14 AM.

  2. #22
    Everything indicates that if you apply for this USDOT registration, you are impersonating a US employee. I can see something in the idea that an original right to travel, should it exist at all would be for all America so you might have the interstate aspect to it. But it sounds as if while you may be successful at having USDOT markers instead of license plates on your private vehicle, that you are getting the privilege of insurance which is only for government employees to enjoy. It sounds very dangerous to impersonate a government employee to get free insurance coverage, especially after an accident where you need to file a claim.

  3. #23
    Yes David, this is another point that needs to be taken into consideration. Thanks for bringing to our attention. What do you think about the UCC code itself in regards to not having to register consumer goods etc. fB
    Last edited by Frederick Burrell; 08-31-11 at 10:36 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by David Merrill View Post
    Everything indicates that if you apply for this USDOT registration, you are impersonating a US employee. I can see something in the idea that an original right to travel, should it exist at all would be for all America so you might have the interstate aspect to it. But it sounds as if while you may be successful at having USDOT markers instead of license plates on your private vehicle, that you are getting the privilege of insurance which is only for government employees to enjoy. It sounds very dangerous to impersonate a government employee to get free insurance coverage, especially after an accident where you need to file a claim.
    Very good points which I've weighed and considered. However, I'm unaware of any free insurance available with a USDOT #. The insurance or bonding is something that you arrange. Furthermore, a 'naked' or 'plain' application for a USDOT # is not suggested. It would be important to make your reservations or notices to the U.S. Department of Transportation. Government employee AFIK are not private they are public or residential (perhaps 'special agents' are an exception?). To make it clear that one is only getting the USDOT # for informational purposes would be upon the "applicant" or "demandant". USDOT staff 'get it'.



    There are other alternatives one of which "EZ" has alluded to.



    The above scan alludes to the other issues when dealing with folks at the level of any of the 50 District-States each of which are to knowledge creatures of the United States since around 1862 to 1871.

    This gets to: what's the difference between getting a USDOT # with an SSN and getting a driver license and signing John Henry under DOE JOHN H 10 XYZ LN DENVER CO 12345? Afterall, that's a State employee (the DL # is akin to an State tax ID).

    The point is that its probably a LOT easier to bond privately with the U.S. Department of Transportation than it might be with a State DMV racket. To get insurance or bonding for a USDOT # one has to go to an insurance carrier or arrange it oneself (hint: bonding can be private).

    Remember, US Goverment employees have "U.S. GOVERNMENT" on their tags *NOT* "UNITED STATES" or "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA".



    Similar to using the USDC as a repository, the U.S. Department of Transportation is a repository for a private/foreign/neutral/sovereign to make their 'vessels' known and 'identifiable' to the world without much ado. One can send in a paper form minus the "penalties of perjury" and with "By special visitation" added.

    It sounds very dangerous to impersonate a government employee to get free insurance coverage, especially after an accident where you need to file a claim.
    I agree. However, with a USDOT #, the insurance/bonding is 100% "BYOYB". For the situations I deal with, "insurance" or "bonding" would amount to private funds deposited with a US Govt. fiduciary for the benefit of, say, Schmidt Family Trust. Also keep in mind that a 'regular insurance policy' is just an indemnity agreement..typically a poorly (if not terribly) written one with nearly-lousy terms for the 'insured' (Wouldn't it better if you could write the policy yourself?).

    Seems far better to be outside the reach of crooked municipalities and deal with the US Department of Transportation where they are at least more honest and/or more informed than most of the State DMV racketeers I've come across.

    There are at least three US Government offices for handling 'transit bonding' issues:

    * U.S. Secretary of Transportation
    * U.S. Secretary of State
    * U.S. Secretary of the Treasury.

    Here's some communications on The Truck Report regarding insurance policies for USDOT for recreational purposes.
    Last edited by allodial; 08-31-11 at 10:33 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  5. #25
    Your can get private bonding for a car without the ODOT. Most people don't have the money or the securities to back a bond or just don't understand the process so few do it. I believe the min bond for a vehicle is $20,000. Could be higher now its been a few years and may very by state. fB

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Burrell View Post
    Your can get private bonding for a car without the ODOT. Most people don't have the money or the securities to back a bond or just don't understand the process so few do it. I believe the min bond for a vehicle is $20,000. Could be higher now its been a few years and may very by state. fB
    Clearly, I'm no poster-boy for the US Department of Transportation. The point is getting at ALTERNATIVES. Some people are further along than others as you have indicated in the previous post. USDOT is quick n easy. You could go to Progressive and still get insurance. IMHO its the widespread incompetence that makes it even necessary to bother with USDOT# which I'd rather not. So the onus and liablity is on them rather than I, no? They are interfering with administration of lawful and foreign estates so perhaps they should have to pay for it? The advantage of the USDOT# is that its easily searchable by most anyone with an Internet connection, a fax or a telephone. One can have the USDOT # on the bumper with no 'plate' at all..or maybe just a 'plate' with your name or coat of arms?

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    An alternative might be to do what is necessary to privatize your automobile and use the USDC for the repository. The USDC records can also be access via pacer.gov. USDOT is just a lot easier to access since no account is required as with pacer.gov.

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    The disadvantage of pacer.gov is that if someone wants to verify the records, they have to have an account to access pacer.gov. And it costs $$. If a police department doesn't have access to pacer.gov then what? Sure likely the documents you have will have USDC stamps on them which can be good enough.

    Another alternative is to just go without plates at all. There are lots of alternatives. USDOT # does not require insurance--it has nothing to do with insurance or bonding--its about the database entry so that revenue agents in the field can determine the nature and character of your automobile--if you have State plates they will likely presume you to be a State employee UNLESS you have made arrangements with the State. I've seen many tow trucks rolling around with only a USDOT # and without any State plates.

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    Another alternative to pacer.gov or USDOT's Safer system is to use a county recorder's office that makes its records available via the Internet FOR FREE so that records can be pulled up by even the most computer challenged back-office LEO. One might even inquire as to whether a particular county will take filings from outside the county? Perhaps they have private files that can be pulled up only by reception number? David Merrill likely knows more about private case jackets/files.

    [Interesting article regarding PACER].

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Burrell View Post
    Your can get private bonding for a car without the ODOT. Most people don't have the money or the securities to back a bond or just don't understand the process so few do it. I believe the min bond for a vehicle is $20,000. Could be higher now its been a few years and may very by state. fB
    The USDOT # has nothing to do with the bonding--they only provide database entries about the bonding/policies available--you could conceivably use the USDOT# only for notice of the bonding/insurance you arrange with the US Govt. Its just that they provide a LEO and 'world accessible' system to determine the nature/character of the automobile or vessel in transit. That is it. If that is your only purpose of having a trust/person being asociated with a USDOT # you can send a letter to the USDOT and file it in the USDC in a misc. jacket and keep a copy in your car. The bond does not come with the USDOT#. Its totally separate. The USDOT only providing a database entry for you to state your claim. That is all! Its obviously not mandatory. But try rolling around without any plates at all.

    Application + Memorandum + Cover letters + Affidavits + USDC repository


    Perhaps Tim Turner has alternatives? (Side note: not related to the thread. I have reason to believe that he and his cohorts gather information on viable remedies and then proceed to create misinformation and propaganda against the remedies. Travel warrant cards being the primary an example.)

    And yes its great news that the "CONSUMER GOODS" exemption has been codified. That supports de-registration of a "motor vehicle" from the State-level and placing it under a trust associated with a USDOT #. The USDOT # is not associated with any particular VIN. You could however, send a notice to the USDOT as to the VINs of the automobiles of the trust. Or such could be in the policy or bonding that you acquire or provide.
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    Last edited by allodial; 08-31-11 at 10:36 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Treefarmer View Post
    Is it necessary to have some family trust structure in place in order to go this route with the DOT # for the cars?
    I'd suggest getting a grasp around the basics of trusts and to know what an 'irrevocable trust' (really means the grantor/settlor/creator can't revoke the trust. If it can be revoked by the grantor/settlor/creator then it can be considred to be a 'sham' or an 'alter-ego of the grantor/settlor for tax purposes --see 'grantor trust') and a 'living trust' is. Conceivably, a trust declaration placing the automobile(s) into the trust wouldn't be a bad idea. Know how to 'sign' documents without incurring general liability ("Mary, as Trustee" vs just "Mary"). Trust declaration can limit the liability of trustees. Beneficiaries can be 'unit holders' or your children. You could be the beneficiary too. The trust could be called Smith Family of Denver North America and the beneficiary could be Smith Family (two different trusts/organizations). Ideally the automobile would be assigned to the trust.

    Now alert for those who have yet to overcome a tendency to lack attention for detail:

    The trust declaration would ideally made so that the trust is not a domestic trust--that the 'address' is not domestic so that its not confused with a State-chartered entity.

    There is an Ehow article on transffering an automobile to a trust.

    Though its not technically necessary for the trust declaration to be made prior to the USDOT# application, its probably a good idea to comprehend the clauses that can go into a such a trust declaration for your protection and to eventually get the trust declaration written out and witnessed (it can be very simple): spendthrift clauses, trustee liability clauses, etc. FYI, most every single airliner is 'wrapped ' in a trust wholly separate from the airline--limits liability.

    If your trust/estate is not domestic then Captain Obvious might mention that "It aint in a city, state ZIP" then. Captain Obvious perhaps required the sign that was photographed as below.



    Perhaps some things aren't always so obvious.

    "The Grantor hereby irrevocably grants the Automobile {defined above} to this Trust {defined above} per the terms of this trust declaration."
    NACRS has a document available online that you might find to be of interest.

    And an entire book that you might find helpful.
    Last edited by allodial; 08-31-11 at 09:54 PM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

  8. #28
    I nearly lost my water looking at that picture ...LOL.
    You would have owed me a laptop, allodial.

  9. #29
    Well allodial if your not the poster boy than your his sister. What does ODOT have to do with the title of this thread. Why didn't you start a new thread instead of hijacking this one. Thanks fB

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Burrell View Post
    Well allodial if your not the poster boy than your his sister. What does ODOT have to do with the title of this thread. Why didn't you start a new thread instead of hijacking this one. Thanks fB
    Sorry not his sister either but if she was cute...

    Anyways... seemed like it was a perfectly related and complimentary topic. No need for State registration of 'consumer goods' + USDOT # or DIY tags. All seems rather exciting and awesome as far as attaining remedy. My apologies if you feel your thread was hijacked. Am I the only one that gets excited about remedy?

    So apart from USDOT # what do you feel to be good alternatives to State tags or even State registration? Is there anyone with good recommendations for overcoming the 'need' for tags for say even cross-country travel?

    To the topic ..

    Last edited by allodial; 09-01-11 at 04:27 AM.
    All rights reserved. Without prejudice. No liability assumed. No value assured.

    "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Thess. 5:21.

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