Direct depost coming my way in January...2 credit unions decline to open accounts

[logjam]

Greetings all,

I got the "letter" at work telling me MANDATORY direct deposit will begin on Jan 1, 2012.

I went to two different credit unions today, presented them with $8000 in paychecks with the 12usc411 non-endorsement on them, and was told they don't accept any restrictive endorsements on them. So, I left without joy... Well, that sucks!

A while back, someone posted on a GLP forum topic (I believe David contributed to that thread for a time) about sending the bank I already have an account with a notarized letter stating that "All withdrawals or deposits on account XXXXXXXXXX-XXXX are for credit on account or exchanged for lawful money in the form of Non-negotiable Federal Reserve Notes of face value" Then send it registered mail to the bank.

Will this work, or does the actual signature card need this verbiage as well?

Thanks!

[EZrhythm]

"It" doesn't work, each makes it work.

I would form it as a NOTICE,record a certified copy in the public and then send a certified copy. The court makes the record and the record makes the court. You are the court.

To make the declaration more impenetrable certify your statement under oath with a notary or witness placing a seal.

When you open an account look for the I-9 form that may be included in the wording of the account agreement. The I-9 section/form is for allowing the bank permission to share you account activities with the IRS. Wells Fargo tried tried to pull a fast one and get the account endorsements on the electronic pad but I insisted on signing a hard copy. They still tried to get me to sign electronically saying that they could print me a hard copy after I signed.

[logjam]

"It" doesn't work, each makes it work.

I would form it as a NOTICE,record a certified copy in the public and then send a certified copy. The court makes the record and the record makes the court. You are the court.

To make the declaration more impenetrable certify your statement under oath with a notary or witness placing a seal.

When you open an account look for the I-9 form that may be included in the wording of the account agreement. The I-9 section/form is for allowing the bank permission to share you account activities with the IRS. Wells Fargo tried tried to pull a fast one and get the account endorsements on the electronic pad but I insisted on signing a hard copy. They still tried to get me to sign electronically saying that they could print me a hard copy after I signed.

Thanks EZ. Yea they are sneaky that way. Is the I-9 a form that has to be filled out, or is it voluntary? Also, is it not the I-9 that makes one declare that they are US Citizens?

Banks are really fighting back it seems. They don't want to give up that precious ability to fractionally lend...

[Jethro]

I suspect "MANDATORY" does not really mean mandatory at all. If "direct deposit" wasn't a condition of being hired, it's likely an unenforceable condition to stay hired. If they fired you because of this matter, you'd likely have a rather nice lawsuit against them.

George Gordon once told of a similar story (if I can find the link to the audio, I'll post it) where a company "mandated" everyone move to direct deposit. One guy refused to do so. The company threatened over and over to terminate him by X date if he didn't go along. X date passed, and not only was he not fired, he still got his paycheck (or it may have been cash) -- he was the only one.

If it were me, I'd likely make a conditional offer something like: "I'd be happy to use direct deposit. However, YOU (company) must set up the DD account for me; and such account must be in in lawful money per 12 USC 411, or YOU assume full liability for the account. Deal?" Now they got a problem.

[shikamaru]

I suspect "MANDATORY" does not really mean mandatory at all. If "direct deposit" wasn't a condition of being hired, it's likely an unenforceable condition to stay hired. If they fired you because of this matter, you'd likely have a rather nice lawsuit against them.

George Gordon once told of a similar story (if I can find the link to the audio, I'll post it) where a company "mandated" everyone move to direct deposit. One guy refused to do so. The company threatened over and over to terminate him by X date if he didn't go along. X date passed, and not only was he not fired, he still got his paycheck (or it may have been cash) -- he was the only one.

If it were me, I'd likely make a conditional offer something like: "I'd be happy to use direct deposit. However, YOU (company) must set up the DD account for me; and such account must be in in lawful money per 12 USC 411, or YOU assume full liability for the account. Deal?" Now they got a problem.

I remember that broadcast. That was awesome.
I can't recall which one it was either.
Was it you can beat city hall?

[logjam]

Well looky what I just found...

Title 40.1 of the Code of Virginia

Virginia Payment of Wage Law, § 40.1-29 of the Code of Virginia.

Employers must establish regular pay rates and pay dates, and pay employees all wages, salaries, and commissions on or before the established pay day. Fringe benefits such as vacation, sick, holiday, and severance pay are not required to be given under the law, and employers may establish any or no policy regarding these fringe benefits. Payment must be made in cash, by check, or direct deposit if the employee chooses, and, in limited circumstances, by payroll debit cards. The law prohibits employers from making deductions, other than for taxes or other items required by law such as garnishments, without first securing the employee's written authorization to do so. Even with written permission, employees cannot be required to forfeit their wages for shortages, errors, damages, etc. Employers can be assessed a $1,000 penalty per violation or face criminal charges for intentionally and willfully violating this law.

I am thinking about drafting an affidavit stating first, that direct deposit was offered as an option when I was hired, NOT as a condition of employment. Do ex-post facto laws apply in situations such as this?

Then quote the law as seen above. (My employer is county govt. Don't they have to abide by state laws, which have superior jurisdiction?) The last time (quite a while ago) they tried to get me to switch to DD, they sicked one of the directors on me. I held my ground, but definitely didn't make friends doing it. What recourse would I have if they pursue harassing me on this?

This is starting to be fun... now that I think I have the upper hand.

BTW, I too remember that George Gordon podcast... need to go searching for it.

Thanks all.

Here it is: http://library.georgegordon.com/node/1540

[David Merrill]

"It" doesn't work, each makes it work.

I would form it as a NOTICE,record a certified copy in the public and then send a certified copy. The court makes the record and the record makes the court. You are the court.

To make the declaration more impenetrable certify your statement under oath with a notary or witness placing a seal.

When you open an account look for the I-9 form that may be included in the wording of the account agreement. The I-9 section/form is for allowing the bank permission to share you account activities with the IRS. Wells Fargo tried tried to pull a fast one and get the account endorsements on the electronic pad but I insisted on signing a hard copy. They still tried to get me to sign electronically saying that they could print me a hard copy after I signed.

Thank you EZ;


I was thinking of forming an identical suggestion. In general publish your demand for lawful money pursuant to... at the county clerk and recorder. Whenever applicable grab a certified copy for a couple bucks and send it to a banking institution. Use either Registered Mail and an evidence repository ($39 Miscellaneous Case file in the federal court) or maybe a professional process server. It is doubtful that they would close down your account since it is the only method of paying you and you have not broken any laws.

About your marked checks. You can simply strike through the demand. Use a single strikethrough and be careful to get before and after copies. Now you have both evidence of your demand and evidence that the institution is coercing you to endorse private credit from the Fed. I can imagine the only purpose is for a full refund of your withholdings, right? So you have the evidence of your demand. Do that every paycheck and show your blanket demand and its proof of service on your electronic bank when you file your 1040.



Regards,

David Merrill.



P.S. The option of payroll debit cards sounds good.

[logjam]

P.S. The option of payroll debit cards sounds good.

David, how would one redeem lawful money from a payroll debit card?

I've seen your threads re: Paypal, but would a payroll dc be issued by my employer, or is it something I must acquire and give them permission to deposit funds into? I realize you don't know, I was just thinking out loud.

Thanks.

[David Merrill]

I am presuming the conditions are like a suitor who works for WalMart. So that is the model I am working from.

It is about record-forming with the account authorization. WalMart has its own debit card. The employee gets the same debit card as any WalMart debit card and the paycheck amounts get put on the debit card. I am presuming that the debit card from your employer is with a name bank.

You would publish a general demand at the county clerk and recorder. Serve it on the bank.

The debit card is not a credit card, refer to the PayPal and other related threads.

This is an interesting endeavor in record-forming though. Maybe we should sit down?

[logjam]

Update as of 10/27...

Decided to try my luck with another bank. This time, I did not tell them of my intentions... just listened politely as the Bank officer told me all about the features, overdraft protection, etc.
It was for a non-interest bearing checking account. I handed her the state-issued DL, and a $50FRN to open the account with.
After her tap tap tapping on her keyboard for quite a while, she finally handed me the "signature card" which is actually an 8.5x11 piece of paper. She indicated where I was to sign. I thoroughly read it through, then did some changes.
First, I crossed through U.S. Citizen, and wrote "man" in its place. Then in the section called "Other Terms/Information", I wrote "On all transactions, demand is made for lawful money per 12USC411", and signed with Without Prejudice above my name.

Great I thought! They didn't even question it.

About 15 minutes later and 12 miles down the road I get a call from the branch manager telling me that he checked with "Legal" and this is not allowed. I asked him if he was aware that Title 12 is US law, but he didn't want to hear it. He said to come in and change it, or they will have to cancel the account.

Can they do this once they've accepted a cash deposit?

What other recourse do we have? It seems banks are catching on to this, and want no part of it. If this is written into the US code and pertains to Federal Reserve Banks and branches, how can they ignore this law?

Anyone?

Thanks.