Lawful Money and the Bank

[stoneFree]

Here you go.

EDIT: that attachment is about unreadable (Now I understand what you were talking about). The forum reduced my attachment to a 600-pixel high image. Here's the full image: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9007/bofasc.jpg

should I be concerned with Item 3. "U.S. Citizen/ U.S. Person" ?

[David Merrill]

Admin is looking into that problem.

[Steve]

[QUOTE=
should I be concerned with Item 3. "U.S. Citizen/ U.S. Person" ?[/QUOTE]

I would think you could (must) cross out that item as per ie instruction about item 2

[David Merrill]

I would think you could (must) cross out that item as per ie instruction about item 2

The remedy is for US Persons/citizens too. I would be uncomfortable saying I am. I might insert a down arrow and write in that space below signing for. So that it clearly reads;

I am signing for a US citizen...

[Mark Christopher]

To me, we find the monetizing of sin (debt). There are no FRNs extant that did not arise from a loan.

This letter is thinly veiled sophistry. If it were true, what the Treasury spokesman says, then Congress could just change the verbiage and stump me and everybody else from the true meaning...


They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand...

I love letters like this. David hits it on the head with saying this is sophistry. If you ask me the letter makes the term 'lawful' an adjective for money. The code 12usc411 seems to use it as a noun 'lawful money' like it is a thing. I guess we go back to what CLINTON said, "it depends what the definition of is, is." But at the end of the day the note carries the term legal tender. Maybe anyone more familiar in the UCC can answer this. Since it is legal tender can I refuse it for a debt (that someone owes me) and still retain my claim to it because of that refusal? The reason I ask is that the coin that was just made legal tender in UTAH does not have to be accepted. I thought that went for all legal tender.

From Webster's dictionary: Lawful may apply to conformity with law of any sort (as natural, divine, common, or canon) <the lawful sovereign>. legal applies to what is sanctioned by law or in conformity with the law, especially as it is written or administered by the courts <legal residents of the state>

[Mark Christopher]

Here you go.

EDIT: that attachment is about unreadable (Now I understand what you were talking about). The forum reduced my attachment to a 600-pixel high image. Here's the full image: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9007/bofasc.jpg

should I be concerned with Item 3. "U.S. Citizen/ U.S. Person" ?

You can't use your SSN if you cross that out. And also Citi would not let me sign unless I had "proper" ID that the sigs match. That was the biggest stipulation that they had with me. They said I can call myself whatever as long as government issued ID showed it.

[martin earl]

You can't use your SSN if you cross that out. And also Citi would not let me sign unless I had "proper" ID that the sigs match. That was the biggest stipulation that they had with me. They said I can call myself whatever as long as government issued ID showed it.

Crossing out "US Citizen" and putting "citizen/national of the United States" then using your passport for confirmation should be enough.

There is not a requirement for anyone to have a SSN, so that is a non-issue. YOU do not have an SSN, it is their number. Living men and women are not eligible for an SSN. Maybe putting "ineligible" and 000-00-0000 in the space for the SSN (I have been told it is in the Federal regulations allow putting all zeros if you have no SSN.

Of course, if you are going to file for 1040 return, the SSN is needed.

Nearly every form I have read gives you the right to cross out anything that does not "apply" to you. I am sure to put "reported" or "alleged" on all vital stats, since I cannot attest or affirm them being true or not.

Also, I never sign anything "under penalty of perjury" I ALWAYS cross that out, also, the word "understand" gets crossed out.

I sign "without prejudice" above my autograph (it.s not a SIG-NATURE).

So far, I have not had anyone give me too many issues, when they do, I simply point out the forms reference to crossing out what is not relevant.

[shikamaru]

Crossing out "US Citizen" and putting "citizen/national of the United States" then using your passport for confirmation should be enough.

There is not a requirement for anyone to have a SSN, so that is a non-issue. YOU do not have an SSN, it is their number. Living men and women are not eligible for an SSN. Maybe putting "ineligible" and 000-00-0000 in the space for the SSN (I have been told it is in the Federal regulations allow putting all zeros if you have no SSN.

Of course, if you are going to file for 1040 return, the SSN is needed.

Nearly every form I have read gives you the right to cross out anything that does not "apply" to you. I am sure to put "reported" or "alleged" on all vital stats, since I cannot attest or affirm them being true or not.

Also, I never sign anything "under penalty of perjury" I ALWAYS cross that out, also, the word "understand" gets crossed out.

I sign "without prejudice" above my autograph (it.s not a SIG-NATURE).

So far, I have not had anyone give me too many issues, when they do, I simply point out the forms reference to crossing out what is not relevant.

This is ... awesome
Will be adding this to the toolbox. Thanks for this.

[doug555]

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...d0907400%29%29

Abraham Lincoln, in his Proclamation on April 15, 1861 used the "extraordinary occasion" to summon [establish] a Congress under the Executive Branch of the "sine die" government of March 28. This is where the "dictatorship" started, destroying the Union it intended to preserve, IMHO. See above link, Lincoln's last paragraph.

[Rock Anthony]

I am new to this group, but not to David's material. Does anyone already have a copy of 31 USC 452 that is mentioned in US v. WARE? Both GPO and Cornell do not include chapter 4 at all! I want to have it for my trip to the bank!

If you look through the TABLE II—REVISED STATUTES 1878, you'll learn that 31 USC 452-454 is the codification of Sec. 3588-3590 of the Revised Statutes.

Now if you follow this link to the Library of Congress website, and then navigate to page 708 of the Revised Statues, you'll find the same text that is codifed in the ever elusive 31 USC 452-454.

United States notes shall be lawful money, and a legal tender in payment of all debts, public and private, within the United States, except for duties on imports and interest on the public debt.